Scrutiny of Anti-Freemasons

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
God is calling us to come out and be different to the mainstream, and not to be the same as or follow the mainstream....

And this is exactly what masons encounther at lodge meetings. Pure and simple.

Actually, the exact opposite. The whole point of Lodge meetings being exclusive is to separate it from the mainstream.

Is this what the Bible teaches us? Are we to adopt pagan celebrations and practices and "baptize" them? Plain and simple, this is apostasy and corruption of the highest order. It is a mixing of sun worshipping paganism into the Church, doctrinal fornication, that provokes the Lord to great anger-

That's probably the most ridiculous statement yet. Ever heard of Christmas? Easter? All these were pagan celebrations that were "baptized". Hell, one pope even said, concerning coffee, "We will cheat the devil by baptizing it as a Christian drink".

Personally, I need no theologian to tell me when, and when not, to have a cup of joe.

Your are way off the mark. The mainstream thing to do now is make wrong look right. That's exactly what you and your band of brothers have been doing here for so long. So you are very mainstream to say the least.

You see, the NAMES that we use -- indeed, our entire vocabulary -- is filled with pagan references of Anglo-Saxon, Norse, Germanic, and Roman gods and goddesses, since the vocabulary developed before Christianity came to England. But the CONTENT of Easter -- at least as true Christians practice it -- is a celebration of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. The old pagan celebrations of Easter are for those who don't know Jesus. But a meditation on Jesus' cross, his death, and his glorious resurrection are to be the focus of Christians.

Don't get hung up on the name "Easter." But focus on the joy we celebrate when we recall Jesus' rising from the dead on that Sunday morning, that "Easter" morning, 20 centuries ago.

altreligion.about.com...
Have you ever wondered where the celebration of the Christian holiday celebrating the resurrection of Christ acquired its unusual name and odd symbols of colored eggs and rabbits?

The answer lies in the ingenious way that the Christian church absorbed Pagan practices. After discovering that people were more reluctant to give up their holidays and festivals than their gods, they simply incorporated Pagan practices into Christian festivals. As recounted by the Venerable Bede, an early Christian writer, clever clerics copied Pagan practices and by doing so, made Christianity more palatable to pagan folk reluctant to give up their festivals for somber Christian practices.

Well captain thread hijacker I think it's time for you to just hop along.
I also like how you happen to skip most of the comments posted. Nice try though.

Originally posted by Andy Warhol


Well captain thread hijacker I think it's time for you to just hop along.

I also like how you happen to skip most of the comments posted. Nice try though.

Not at all. All of your claims have been dissected and rejected by all the participants, both masons and non-masons.

You nor your little band of minions have done nothing to prove that the frat of, "good old boy" is just that. Instead you have totally back pedaled. And again you can't even defend yourself or your frat. Instead you just hijack threads with meaningless and pointless insults just like your last comment here. Go U2U your band of brothers and rally the troops.

I see a definite problem in the use of the name of Jesus Christ in prayers in the lodge room, while at the same time ignoring that which He taught, namely, the way to heaven(salvation).

Matthew 7:22-23:
“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

There were those who were using the name of Jesus Christ as a means of attempting to show an association with Him. However, their practices (In the case of Masonry, their teachings) were those of lawlessness.

Here is where the problem lies. While you may well be using His name in your lodge prayers, your lodge is teaching a way to heaven that totally ignores Jesus Christ. It is explained, in this very lodge you speak of where you presumably call upon His name, that the lambskin apron symbolizes that "purity of life and rectitude of conduct, which is so essentially necessary for gaining admission to that celestial lodge above, . ." This is purely a works-based teaching for salvation, as opposed to faith in Jesus Christ. Hence, it is a matter of calling upon His name, but ignoring His authority.

That which you seem to be seeing as our difficulty in understanding the innocence of dual involvement in both Freemasonry and the Christian faith, appears to be tantamount to seeing no harm in both partaking, and not partaking, of the fruit of "the tree that is in the midst of the garden".

Now hijack this one

While you CLAIM to be closing prayers in the name of Jesus in lodge, the truth of the matter is that all prayers in ritual are prescribed. The name, Jesus Christ, is not found in Masonic ritual.

If one of your Jewish brothers finds fault with prayers in the name of Jesus in non-ritual prayer, you will come to understand the limits of Masonic tolerance.

The ritual of all Masonic jurisdictions in the United States teaches salvation without Jesus. Several US Grand Lodges have stated that the Legend of the Third Degree is essentially identical in all jurisdictions everywhere in the world. I have no reason to doubt they are correct. The Hiramic Legend in the Third Degree teaches salvation based upon imitating Hiram Abiff, who is killed, buried and raised from the grave in the ritual

Freemasonry's plan of salvation is contrary to the teachings of Christ.

Therefore, we believe that those who use the name of Jesus Christ in prayers, full well knowing that the venue in which they do so is a den of heresy, are frivolously using His name, at best.

Not a good thing.

As far as your claim as to what the Hiramic Legend teaches, you show yourself to be uninformed on this matter, as to its purpose:
"Here is the SUBLIME climax of the symbolic Degrees, and if a Brother misses its meaning, and sees the living dying and "raising" of the Master only as a literal drama - designed to teach the virtues of fortitude and inflexible fidelity, he has found Light but partially. To him the Sublime Degree is no more than a theatrical play with a moral." ('The Lodge System Of Masonic Education - Nevada')

"The tragedy of Hiram Abif is the climax of the Master Mason degree, the essence of Freemasonry, the foundation of its philosophy. To understand its symbolism is to understand Masonry; to miss its significance is to remain forever in outer darkness." ('Officers Manual of Lodge Organization and Operation' - Grand Lodge of Nevada, page 95)

And more proof from actual masonic lodges that masonry is for fools.

And hijack this one

Masonic Lights serves as a good example. You will notice that he has plucked one lone sentence from that which I quoted from an official Grand Lodge document many times, in the hopes of changing its intended meaning. Unfortunately, this is the norm for most defenders of the Masonic religion - distortion and deceit.

would try to make it appear as though the Legend is intended to be "no more than a theatrical play with a moral.", ignoring the fact that the Grand Lodge says those Brothers who see it only as such, have missed the purpose, and have only found partial light. The statement I additionally quoted makes it even more obvious that those who miss its significance "remain forever in outer darkness."

This would imply that the partial light found in the first and second degrees means nothing if the purpose of the Legend is missed.

After the worshipful master resurrects the candidate from the grave, he gives him the substitute for the master's word, which is Mah-Ha-Bone. He then proceeds to explain to him the real grip of a master mason, or lion's paw, which is received on the 5 points of fellowship. One of those 5 points is "cheek to cheek, or mouth to ear". The wm explains to the newly resurrected mason, it's meaning: "..that we should be every ready to whisper wise counsel in the ear of an erring brother, and warn him of approaching danger."

So, please tell me, Masonic Light, how is anybody supposed to know if a brother is erring, without judging him to be erring?

I have always wondered why it is that defenders of the religion of Freemasonry seem to consider truth as being an attack. I was always of the opine that truth is the truth. However, you seem to have the slant that to speak the truth is an attack. Interesting.



[edit on 31-3-2007 by Andy Warhol]

So Andy,

You'll notice that ML's offline and not able to U2U diddly. That said,

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
I see a definite problem in the use of the name of Jesus Christ in prayers in the lodge room, while at the same time ignoring that which He taught, namely, the way to heaven(salvation).

I take it that your life is spent not interacting with anyone of a faith or creed you don't share, right? So your world includes only people just like you and who see things EXACTLY the way you do, right? Must be nice. The rest of us live lives of interactions where give and take is required. Today and throughout history, there have been more than enough incidences of man-killing-and-maiming-man because they don't believe right. Masonry's point is to find the ground that good men of whatever faith can agree upon and work together for mutual improvement from there. In my Lodge, I'm an Anglican, the Junior Deacon's a Sikh, the Senior Steward Catholic, a past Master Jewish and the brethren various and sundry. You'd prefer everyone trying to beat each other's brains out?

Masonry doesn't conflict with my faith nor the tenets of my faith as I'm sure it mustn't with the rest of the brethren. Yet you who KNOW nothing of Masonry have LOTS to say while being fearful of others whose belief isn't in lockstep with yours. I'd pity you if the pity weren't likely to be so completely wasted.

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
I have always wondered why it is that defenders of the religion of Freemasonry seem to consider truth as being an attack. I was always of the opine that truth is the truth. However, you seem to have the slant that to speak the truth is an attack. Interesting.

a) AGAIN, it isn't a religion. Your lie repeated is still a lie.

b) Truth isn't an attack. The "truth" you present is opinion not actuality.

c) You could take some lessons from interested. To use the old axiom, "you'll get a lot more bees with honey than vinegar".

I never asked for any pity at all. So save that for someone who really wants it. And I have never said that I promote violence against anyone. Better luck stuffing words in someones elses mouth. And again you and your brothers of U2U love have totally side stepped the qoutes listed from your Lodge Monitors captain thread hijacker.

The authorities are the Grand Lodges. What position have they taken with regard to whether Hiram is resurrected, or reburied?

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quote:
The Hiramic legend is one of the Landmarks of Masonry. Without the story of the Temple builder, our Fraternity would lose its distinctive character. In this quaintly dramatized legend, we find the ultimate lessons of Masonic philosophy--victory over death and the immortality of the soul. In the most dramatic manner, it teaches the fundamentals of life, of death, and of the resurrection.
The Master Mason, booklet number 4, Grand Lodge of Maine, Committee on Masonic Education, page 3

The small hill near Mount Moriah can be clearly identified by the most convincing analogies as being none other than Mount Calvary. Thus Mount Calvary was a small hill; it was situated west from the Temple, and near Mount Moriah; it was on the direct road from Jerusalem to Joppa, and is thus the very spot where a weary brother, traveling on that road would find it convenient to sit down to rest and refresh himself; it was outside of the gate of the Temple; and lastly, there are several caves, or clefts in the rocks, in the neighborhood, one of which, it will be remembered, was subsequently to the time of this tradition, used as the sepulchre of our Lord. The Master Mason will readily perceive the peculiar character of the symbolism which this identification of the spot on which the great truth of the resurrection was unfolded in both systems--the Masonic and the Christian-- must suggest.
Nebraska Monitor & Ceremonies, 1962, p. 54.

. . .the drama of Hiram the Builder is a symbol of redemption - - and redemption is the central theme of this degree. 'Raised from a dead level to a living perpendicular' suggests far more than a physical accomplishment.
Officers Manual of Lodge Organization and Operation - Grand Lodge of Nevada, page 96

The Sublime Degree of Master Mason is the pinnacle of Masonry, the goal of initiation. Instead of being concerned with the moral principles of the first degree or with the architecture and learning of the second, it answers the cry of Job, "If a man die, shall he live again."
Ibid, p. 93

The important part of the degree is to symbolize the great doctrines of the resurrection of the body and the immortality of the soul; and hence it has been remarked by a learned writer of our Order that 'the Master Mason represents a man saved from the grave of iniquity, and raised to the faith of salvation.."
North Carolina Lodge Manual, p. 53) (1965 edition)


How appropriate is such an introduction to the sublime and awful ceremonies of that degree, in which death, the resurrection, and life eternal are the lessons to be taught by all its symbols and allegories!
Ahiman Rezon, 1965, Grand Lodge of South Carolina, p. 143

The second section of this lecture is of pre-eminent importance. It recites the legend of historical tradition on which the degree is founded; a legend whose symbolic interpretation testifies our faith in the resurrection of the body and the immortality of the soul, while it exemplifies a rare instance of virtue, fortitude, and integrity.
Ahiman Rezon, 1965, GL of SC, pp. 143-144

The raising of the candidate - it presents a resurrection after death and Masonic faith in the immortality of the soul.
Mentor's Manual, Grand Lodge of Virginia, p.49

Thus, my brother, have I rehearsed to you the legend of the Master Mason Degree, a history venerated as a reminiscence of days long past, and regarded by Masons with peculiar reverence, not so much for the legend itself, as for the solemn and sublime doctrine it is intended to impress upon our minds--the resurrection of the body and the immortality of the soul.
Kentucky Monitor, 134-35

Raising - This expression refers, materially, to a portion of the ceremony of the Third Degree; but, symbolically, it presents a resurrection after death and a Masons' faith in immortality.

Here is the sublime climax of the Symbolic Degrees; and if a Brother misses its meaning, sees the living, the dying, and the "raising" of the Master only as a literal drama --designed to teach the virtues of fortitude and inflexible fidelity -- he has found Light but partially, and the Sublime Degree to him is naught but a theatrical play with a moral.
Manual for use in Forums of Masonic Education, Grand Lodge of Rhode Island, 1955, p. 52.


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Have you ever pondered the built in conflicts in the ritual? In the ritual, Hiram is not reburied after being raised from a dead level to a living perpendicular. In various ways, the Grand Lodges reveal that reburial is not a valid interpretation. deals with a number of these built in conflicts. Examining the conflicts in ritual will help you understand what is actually being taught. I would prefer the masons to stop lying, but since none really can and all they can do is really thread hijack So...diddy

publicly Masons do not claim that Freemasonry is a religion. However, it certainly functions as a religion in the lives of many men.
It is easy to see why when the written materials produced by the Grand Lodges are considered. For example, Masonic teaching concerning the Rough and Perfect Ashlar:

Rough Ashlar

The Rough Ashlar is a stone as taken from the quarry in its rude and natural state; the Perfect Ashlar is a stone made ready by the hands of the workmen to be adjusted by the tools of a Fellow Craft;. . .

By the Rough Ashlar we are reminded of our rude and imperfect state by nature; by the Perfect Ashlar, that state of perfection at which we hope to arrive by a virtuous education, or own endeavors and the blessings of God; . . . Indiana Monitor and Freemason’s Guide, 1993, pp. 66-67.

The Grand Lodge of California provides materials for those who coach new initiates which explains this teaching a little further:

ROUGH ASHLAR, a stone from the quarry before squaring, a symbol of untutored man. Perfect ashlar, a stone squared and smooth, symbol of enlightened manhood. Perfection is here attained by a process of taking away; no stroke of gavel or chisel can add anything to a rough ashlar; it may only remove. Perfection, then, is already within.

In the Great Light we read: "The kingdom of heaven is within you." All that is required is to remove the roughness, the excrescences, "divesting our hearts and consciences of the vices and superfluities of life" to show forth the perfect man and Mason and to find the kingdom within. Handbook for Candidates Coaches, Committee on Ritual, Grand Lodge of California, P. 16.

The Grand Lodges of Indiana and California both deny that Freemasonry is a religion, yet they both produce educational material which explains how a Mason may reach perfection and qualify for a glorious immortality. Jesus Christ is not mentioned in such Masonic materials.

The Grand Lodge of California states that the "Great Light" says that "The kingdom of Heaven is within you." Which Great Light are they speaking of? I don't find that statement in my King James Version, or my New International Version, or my New American Standard Version. Did I miss it, or is Freemasonry distorting the truth and telling Masons that the Great Light says something it does not say?

Freemasonry is a false religion which ensnares its participants in idolatry. However, the name Satan or Lucifer is not found in Masonic ritual. At no point in any degree are Masons told that their god is Lucifer, or Satan. Everything they need to know about the Great Architect of the Universe is contained within the basic teachings of Freemasonry, specifically, the Fatherhood of God, Brotherhood of man.

Masons are not taught a great deal more in the "higher" degrees. There is plenty of heresy in the Blue Lodge to cause a man to stand condemned. Not only is idolatry an issue, but they participate in the promotion of a false gospel. Some of them embrace the false gospel. Gal 1:8-9 reveals that the reward for that is condemnation.

The Great White Throne is mentioned in quite a number of Blue Lodge monitors. Many Masons look forward to standing before the Great White Throne.

You are not alone in your belief that a man has to get into the higher degrees to learn the truth about Freemasonry. That false assumption has been around for years. It never was true.

Quote
1)In the 17th degree the candidate is given a password - Jubulum, and a SACRED password - Abaddon. Abaddon is Satan.

"And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue have the name Apollyon." Revelation 9:11 KJV :
Unquote
the sacred password is Abaddon and that Abaddon (a destroyer) is the king of the bottomless pit, the destroyer and who would this refer to? You are putting words into other people's mouths, that are not there. The name Satan or Lucifer does not have to be mentioned, false religion is all that is necessary for a reasonable and prudent person to come to the conclusion, that if not of God, it is of Satan.
Masonry is an institution which deceives at the lowest and lower degrees and enmeshes many many men who think they are Christians into adopting the belief systems of a new Age, universalist religion. that the kind of religion Masons are practicing opens the door to Satan. I'm sure it pleases him very much to have non-Christians and Christians side by side, praying to the "great architect of the universe" together.

Isn't one of the primary tenets of Freemasonry the acceptance of other religions? Don't you think they have to be fair to the Satanists as well? It would be hard to believe that there are no Satanists involved in Freemasonry. In fact what I've found in doing my research points to the opposite (I've researched over 100 websites to some degree, pro and con). Don't you think Freemasonry is exactly the kind of organization Satanists would love to be a part of? And if they are there, wouldn't you would call them your brethren, pray with them, etc?

If you are Christian, do you witness to people of other faiths who are a part of the organization? As a Christian it is your duty.

The bottom line is that you are practicing a religion and it is not Christian. "In the 17th degree the candidate is given a password - Jubulum, and a SACRED password - Abaddon. Abaddon is Satan.

Abaddon is the "angel of the bottomless pit" spoken of in Rev 9:11.

Maybe you can enlighten me on this, on what possible innocent reason would there be to have a sacred word that means Satan. Or will the Masons slice your throat or cut your tongue out or some other such nonsense if they find out that you told me? :-)

Everything I read points to the fact that Masonry and witchcraft have evolved from the same source, the Ancient Mystery Religions Having read rituals for the York Rite and some from the Scottish Rite, I see nothing in them which inform a man more clearly that he is in a Satanic Cult. At least not in terms that the average individual will understand. The rituals of the higher degrees tend to round thing out a bit, but most don't understand what they hear. The phrase Satanic Cult is bound to arouse their ire.

I know quite a number of men who have REPENTED and left the Lodge, including the York and Scottish Rites, the Shrine and OES. Their testimony concerning these matters is consistent. None of them would claim that they had been given any big secret in the higher degrees or that they have been told more clearly that they are in a Satanic Cult. There is more than enough evil in the Blue Lodge to allow a discerning Christian to know that Freemasonry is demonically inspired. So many of the teachings are in conflict with the Scriptures.

Certainly the name Jah-Bul-On as found in York Rite is not the name of God, but rather a concatenation of Jehovah, Baal and essentially Osiris. I have an article from a York Rite magazine which discusses the dilemma they have because their ritual connects the name of a pagan god with Jehovah. Yet, many Masons are not going to know about this and those who do are not going to admit it.

In a Scottish Rite book, published by the Supreme Counsel, there is a statement which essentially says that the Serpent is the Holy Spirit. But that is hardly worth using. We have a much tighter connection with the claim that Lucifer is the Holy Spirit which we can tie back to Grand Lodges.

There is more than enough in the Blue Lodge to condemn a man. No one who is actively involved in Blue Lodge Freemasonry is a Spirit led Christian.


[edit on 31-3-2007 by Andy Warhol]

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
I never asked for any pity at all.

Gee....just like I said.

Originally posted by Andy WarholAnd I have never said that I promote violence against anyone. Better luck stuffing words in someones elses mouth.

I asked you a simple question. "You'd prefer everyone trying to beat each other's brains out?" Simple because the intolerance that seems to seethe from your posting suggests to me that you'd have no problem with it. If I'm mistaken, mea culpa. However, the fact of this life is that we can either try to find a balance that everyone can deal with or we bring Hell to this world and then nobody's happy. Period.

Originally posted by Andy WarholHave you ever pondered the built in conflicts in the ritual? In the ritual, Hiram is not reburied after being raised from a dead level to a living perpendicular.

You'll excuse me if I don't accept your typing at face value. The only ritual I'm familiar with is from my own jurisdiction and Hiram sure as Hell IS reburied.

Of course, you only have my word on that and I'm a Mason so immediately suspect in your book I'm sure.

Originally posted by Andy WarholSo...diddy

The word's "diddly".

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
publicly Masons do not claim that Freemasonry is a religion.

]
Nor privately either. But you wouldn't know that.

Originally posted by Andy WarholHowever, it certainly functions as a religion in the lives of many men.

Guess what?"Is" and "functions as" do NOT mean the same thing. Jerry Springer or The Price is Right could fit the template you're trying to draw. And guess what? The analogy would be as accurate.

Originally posted by Andy WarholMasonry is an institution which deceives at the lowest and lower degrees and....[snip]

And here we go again. And around and around it goes.

publicly Masons do not claim that Freemasonry is a religion. However, it certainly functions as a religion in the lives of many men.
It is easy to see why when the written materials produced by the Grand Lodges are considered. For example, Masonic teaching concerning the Rough and Perfect Ashlar:

Rough Ashlar

The Rough Ashlar is a stone as taken from the quarry in its rude and natural state; the Perfect Ashlar is a stone made ready by the hands of the workmen to be adjusted by the tools of a Fellow Craft;. . .

By the Rough Ashlar we are reminded of our rude and imperfect state by nature; by the Perfect Ashlar, that state of perfection at which we hope to arrive by a virtuous education, or own endeavors and the blessings of God; . . . Indiana Monitor and Freemason’s Guide, 1993, pp. 66-67.

The Grand Lodge of California provides materials for those who coach new initiates which explains this teaching a little further:

ROUGH ASHLAR, a stone from the quarry before squaring, a symbol of untutored man. Perfect ashlar, a stone squared and smooth, symbol of enlightened manhood. Perfection is here attained by a process of taking away; no stroke of gavel or chisel can add anything to a rough ashlar; it may only remove. Perfection, then, is already within.

In the Great Light we read: "The kingdom of heaven is within you." All that is required is to remove the roughness, the excrescences, "divesting our hearts and consciences of the vices and superfluities of life" to show forth the perfect man and Mason and to find the kingdom within. Handbook for Candidates Coaches, Committee on Ritual, Grand Lodge of California, P. 16.

The Grand Lodges of Indiana and California both deny that Freemasonry is a religion, yet they both produce educational material which explains how a Mason may reach perfection and qualify for a glorious immortality. Jesus Christ is not mentioned in such Masonic materials.

The Grand Lodge of California states that the "Great Light" says that "The kingdom of Heaven is within you." Which Great Light are they speaking of? I don't find that statement in my King James Version, or my New International Version, or my New American Standard Version. Did I miss it, or is Freemasonry distorting the truth and telling Masons that the Great Light says something it does not say?

Freemasonry is a false religion which ensnares its participants in idolatry. However, the name Satan or Lucifer is not found in Masonic ritual. At no point in any degree are Masons told that their god is Lucifer, or Satan. Everything they need to know about the Great Architect of the Universe is contained within the basic teachings of Freemasonry, specifically, the Fatherhood of God, Brotherhood of man.

Masons are not taught a great deal more in the "higher" degrees. There is plenty of heresy in the Blue Lodge to cause a man to stand condemned. Not only is idolatry an issue, but they participate in the promotion of a false gospel. Some of them embrace the false gospel. Gal 1:8-9 reveals that the reward for that is condemnation.

The Great White Throne is mentioned in quite a number of Blue Lodge monitors. Many Masons look forward to standing before the Great White Throne.

You are not alone in your belief that a man has to get into the higher degrees to learn the truth about Freemasonry. That false assumption has been around for years. It never was true.

Quote
1)In the 17th degree the candidate is given a password - Jubulum, and a SACRED password - Abaddon. Abaddon is Satan.

"And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue have the name Apollyon." Revelation 9:11 KJV :
Unquote
the sacred password is Abaddon and that Abaddon (a destroyer) is the king of the bottomless pit, the destroyer and who would this refer to? You are putting words into other people's mouths, that are not there. The name Satan or Lucifer does not have to be mentioned, false religion is all that is necessary for a reasonable and prudent person to come to the conclusion, that if not of God, it is of Satan.
Masonry is an institution which deceives at the lowest and lower degrees and enmeshes many many men who think they are Christians into adopting the belief systems of a new Age, universalist religion. that the kind of religion Masons are practicing opens the door to Satan. I'm sure it pleases him very much to have non-Christians and Christians side by side, praying to the "great architect of the universe" together.

Isn't one of the primary tenets of Freemasonry the acceptance of other religions? Don't you think they have to be fair to the Satanists as well? It would be hard to believe that there are no Satanists involved in Freemasonry. In fact what I've found in doing my research points to the opposite (I've researched over 100 websites to some degree, pro and con). Don't you think Freemasonry is exactly the kind of organization Satanists would love to be a part of? And if they are there, wouldn't you would call them your brethren, pray with them, etc?

If you are Christian, do you witness to people of other faiths who are a part of the organization? As a Christian it is your duty.

The bottom line is that you are practicing a religion and it is not Christian. "In the 17th degree the candidate is given a password - Jubulum, and a SACRED password - Abaddon. Abaddon is Satan.

Abaddon is the "angel of the bottomless pit" spoken of in Rev 9:11.

Maybe you can enlighten me on this, on what possible innocent reason would there be to have a sacred word that means Satan. Or will the Masons slice your throat or cut your tongue out or some other such nonsense if they find out that you told me? :-)

Everything I read points to the fact that Masonry and witchcraft have evolved from the same source, the Ancient Mystery Religions Having read rituals for the York Rite and some from the Scottish Rite, I see nothing in them which inform a man more clearly that he is in a Satanic Cult. At least not in terms that the average individual will understand. The rituals of the higher degrees tend to round thing out a bit, but most don't understand what they hear. The phrase Satanic Cult is bound to arouse their ire.

I know quite a number of men who have REPENTED and left the Lodge, including the York and Scottish Rites, the Shrine and OES. Their testimony concerning these matters is consistent. None of them would claim that they had been given any big secret in the higher degrees or that they have been told more clearly that they are in a Satanic Cult. There is more than enough evil in the Blue Lodge to allow a discerning Christian to know that Freemasonry is demonically inspired. So many of the teachings are in conflict with the Scriptures.

Certainly the name Jah-Bul-On as found in York Rite is not the name of God, but rather a concatenation of Jehovah, Baal and essentially Osiris. I have an article from a York Rite magazine which discusses the dilemma they have because their ritual connects the name of a pagan god with Jehovah. Yet, many Masons are not going to know about this and those who do are not going to admit it.

In a Scottish Rite book, published by the Supreme Counsel, there is a statement which essentially says that the Serpent is the Holy Spirit. But that is hardly worth using. We have a much tighter connection with the claim that Lucifer is the Holy Spirit which we can tie back to Grand Lodges.

There is more than enough in the Blue Lodge to condemn a man. No one who is actively involved in Blue Lodge Freemasonry is a Spirit led Christian.


[edit on 31-3-2007 by Andy Warhol]

And for the second time no I wouldn't want everyone beating their brains out. Would the Holy Spirit really lead a Christian to join the Masonic Lodge? Would the Spirit lead a Pastor to join an organization which teaches that it has divine truths that are revealed only after he receives a new birth within Freemasonry?

The Grand Lodge of South Carolina says the following about the person who is about to become an Entered Apprentice:

There he stands without our portals, on the threshold of this new Masonic life, in darkness, helplessness, and ignorance. Having been wandering amid the errors and covered over with the pollutions of the outer and profane world, he comes inquiringly to our doors, seeking the new birth, and asking a withdrawal of the veil which conceals divine truth from his uninitiated sight. South Carolina Book of Constitutions, 1947, p. 61, Grand Lodge of South Carolina

The Scriptures speak about darkness and the position which a Christian holds:

When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” John 8:12

It seems that when they view a Christian as one who is in darkness and ignorance, they are either denying that he is in Christ, or that Jesus is the light of the world. In the EA degree, you will be presented as one from the world of darkness seeking to be brought to light. Given that you are well aware of John 8:12, can you allow them to present you in lodge in that manner without taking part in a denial of Jesus Christ yourself?

Denying Jesus is a serious matter:

“Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven. Matthew 10:32

Would the Holy Spirit lead ANY Christian to knowingly take part in a ritual in which Jesus Christ is being denied for him? Can he avoid guilt if he allows himself to be presented to the lodge in this way? Freemasonry defines the GAOTU to include Vishnu, Krishna, Allah, Ahura Mazda, Buddha, Baal and any other name which men worship.

The Grand Lodge of Indiana has admitted that the GAOTU they worship is really not God, at all, but simply a symbol.

"Freemasonry is non-sectarian. Before its altar Christian, Jew, Mohammedan, Buddhist, Gentile, Confucian, may kneel together. Indiana Mentor's Manual p. 17

One fundamental of Freemasonry is its non-sectarian character. Any man may offer his devotions to the Deity he reveres, under the Masonic title, no matter what name he may use in his religious worship. . . Thus, Great Architect of the Universe (or any of its variations) is a symbol of Deity as named and worshiped in all religions. Indiana Mentor’s Manual, p. 49

The Grand Lodge of Indiana is not alone. The Grand Lodge of California holds the same position:

Great Architect or Great Artificer of the Universe.

Under these titles, Freemasonry refers to Deity. A fundamental of Freemasonry is its nonsectarian character; any man of any religion may offer his devotions to the Deity he reveres, no matter what name he may use in his mind, under the Masonic title. Great Architect of the Universe (or any of its variations) is a symbol of Deity as named and worshiped in all religions. Handbook for Candidates Coaches, Grand Lodge of California, p. 22

The official position is that in Lodge, Masons worship a symbol known as the Great Architect of the Universe. Worship of a symbol is idolatry. Pastors who condone this within their flock should read Ezekiel 33. If the watchman holds his tongue, the sword will still kill, but the watchman will have blood on his hands. Don't be the kind of pastor who lets the Masons in his congregation go to hell without hearing a word of warning from your pulpit. Consider the following teachings of the Grand Lodges.

339. MASONRY AND RELIGION
Masonry has no religious dogma other than that it requires a belief in Deity. Any man, good and true, whether he be Christian, Jew, Mohammedan, Parsee, Buddhist, Brahman or Deist may be admitted to Masonry because all these religions require a belief in Deity. Masonic Code of Alabama, p. 141-2, 1963

Masons believe that there is one God and that people employ many different ways to seek and to express what they know of God. Masons primarily uses (sic) the appellation, "Grand Architect of the Universe," and other non-sectarian titles, to address Deity. In this way, persons of different faiths may join together in prayer, concentrating on God rather than on differences among themselves. Masonry believes in religious freedom and that the relationship between the individual and God is personal, private and sacred. Masonic Manual of Minnesota, p16, 1998

As Masons we have one faith, one hope, one charity. We believe in, and depend upon the same God, have the same hope of eternal life, and that same charity which is of an enduring and uniting nature, which will enable all the good and true to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace and in righteousness of life. Kentucky Monitor, p. 169

Freemasonry teaches that Christians, Jews, Mohammedans, Parsees, Buddhists, Hindus and Deists all worship the one true and living God and have the same hope of eternal life. It defines God to include the gods of all pagan religions its members embrace, and the God of the Christian. As Masons, they stand united in this religious belief. It is heresy.
The Kentucky Monitor is the official publication of the Grand Lodge of Kentucky, given to men who are raised to Master Masons in Kentucky Lodges. The Grand Lodge is the central authority in its jurisdiction. The Kentucky Monitor is authoritative for Kentucky Masons. It is not something from the fringe, but rather something from the central authority. That publication stands in the same position that any other Grand Lodge monitor would stand in within its jurisdiction.
The issue is not the words used, but rather the teaching the words convey. If you believe that those words do not convey the correct understanding of the Masonic position, possibly you haven't carefully considered the foundational teachings of Freemasonry and its requirements for membership. One of the universally accepted Landmarks of Freemasonry states the following:

MONOTHEISM is the sole dogma of Freemasonry. Belief in one God is required of every initiate, but hs conception of the Supreme Being is left to his own interpretation. Indiana Monitor and Freemason's Guide, p. 41, 1993

Monotheism is the doctrine or belief that there is only one God. My dictionary defines Supreme Being as God. Substituting God for Supreme being in the landmark position above, we have:

Belief in ONE GOD is required of every initiate, but his conception of THE GOD is left to his own interpretation.

Notice that the landmark position is not that his conception of his own God is left to his own interpretation. It states that his conception of THE GOD is left to his own interpretation. Freemasonry holds that there is only one God, but that its members may have different interpretations concerning this one God.

As a requirement of membership, Freemasonry requires belief in the existence of A Supreme Being. The Masonic position is there is only one Supreme Being. If a member believes in a Supreme Being, from the Masonic position, he must believe in The Supreme Being, because there is no other.

Given these Masonic positions and the fact that that Christians, Jews, Mohammedans, Parsees, Buddhists, Hindus and Deists are accepted into Freemasonry as satisfying the belief requirement, the conclusion that Freemasonry teaches that the God of Christians, as well as the gods of the Mohammedans, Parsees, Buddhists, Hindus and any other pagan Mason are in fact the ONE GOD, is unavoidable.

But, lets take it from your perspective (as I understand it) and see how much support we can get from the Masonic brethren. I believe that you are taking the position that the Hindu Mason, the Buddhist Mason, the Zoroastrian (Parsee) Mason and the Mohammedan Mason all worship a different god or gods which are not the God of the Christian Mason. Personally, that is the position that I take. Let's see how many Masons we can get to agree with us.

Masons, how many of you believe that the Hindu Mason, the Buddhist Mason, the Zoroastrian Mason and the Christian Mason worship different Gods?

Wayne, I believe that we will find that Masons take the position that all Masons worship the same God. It is given that these different Masons invoke different names when they worship. Obviously, Calvin would not have taken the position that the god of the Hindu, the Buddhist, the Zoroastrian and the God of the Christian are all included in his conception The Great Architect of the Universe. However, Freemasonry does.

As far as the Kentucky Monitor being widely accepted, it is accepted as an authoritative work published by one of the legitimate authorities of Freemasonry. All of the US Grand Lodges recogniFrom the official website of U.G.L.E.(Grand Lodge of England), we find this about the essential qualifications for becoming a Mason:
"The essential qualification for admission into and continuing membership is a belief in a Supreme Being. Membership is open to men of any race or religion who can fulfil this essential qualification and who are of good repute."

In another section of the official site, it is stated:
"The essential qualifications for admission is that you have a belief in a Supreme Being."

Here, as with Grand Lodges on this side of the pond, the belief requirement is that each member is required to have some sort of a belief in something he regards to be a Supreme Being.

In a Q&A section of the site, we find this:
"Q. Why do you call God the Great Architect?
A. Freemasonry embraces all men who believe in God. Its membership includes Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, Parsees and others. The use of descriptions such as the Great Architect prevents disharmony. The Great Architect is not a specific Masonic god or an attempt to combine all gods into one. Thus, men of differing religions pray together without offense being given to any of them."

You will notice, by the answer given, U.G.L.E. is saying that all gods believed in by all men of all religions, is, Masonically, "God". It is Masonry's GAOTU that Masonry refers to when it says God, no matter which Grand Lodge we are talking about, including U.G.L.E. Pitifully, U.G.L.E. then tries to skate out from under Masonry's concept of GAOTU saying it is no attempt to combine all gods into one. Yet, logic demands that when engaged in corporate prayer in the lodge room, "Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, Parsees and others" are said to be praying to the Gods of their own faiths/religions.

This is very much in accord with the Grand Lodges of the United States, and all Grand Lodges that are recognized by one another, which includes U.G.L.E.. This is in accord with the "common bond" among all Grand Lodges, that being their commonality of tenets, teachings, etc.: "Every Grand Lodge is independent and owes allegiance to no higher authority. Each Grand Lodge adopts its own laws, ritual, and standards and governs all Symbolic Lodges and Freemasons within its jurisdiction. Nevertheless, ancient Masonic usages, customs and principles bind the Grand Lodges together. There are but slight differences in ritual and regulations and none whatever in basic Masonic precepts." ('Freemasonry - A Way Of Life' - Nevada, pg. 7)

ze the Kentucky Grand Lodge, as does the Grand Lodge of England.the U.G.L.E. views the GAOTU of Freemasonry the same way all the other Grand Lodges view it - a polytheistic montage that is required to be whatever any of its members want it to be.
The fact that the lodge would go to such trouble to create a generic god is evidence that it is, indeed, engaging in syncretism at best or polytheism at worst, neither of which are acceptable to God. God deplored such blendings when the children of Israel were making their way through the wilderness, He deplored it when they entered the Promised Land, and as far as I have been able to tell, He deplores it today. I realize that you want to make the lodge room the exception, but I'm not sure God will agree with your request for a zone variance.
Too many "ifs". Freemasonry has already told us its GAOTU is whatever anybody wants it to be. Further, all except the Christians, in such circumstances, reject the True and Living God because they reject Jesus Christ as being a part of that Triune Godhead who is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Perhaps four statements can summarize and clarify this study.
1. God is One. The God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament. His offer of salvation in the Old Testament receives a fuller revelation in the New Testament in a way that is not different, but more complete. The doctrine of the Trinity does not abandon the monotheistic faith of Israel.

2. God has three distinct ways of being in the redemptive event, yet He remains an undivided unity. That God the Father imparts Himself to mankind through Son and Spirit without ceasing to be Himself is at the very heart of the Christian faith. A compromise in either the absolute sameness of the Godhead or the true diversity reduces the reality of salvation.

3. The primary way of grasping the concept of the Trinity is through the threefold participation in salvation. The approach of the New Testament is not to discuss the essence of the Godhead, but the particular aspects of the revelatory event that includes the definitive presence of the Father in the person of Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit.

4. The doctrine of the Trinity is an absolute mystery. It is primarily known, not through speculation, but through experiencing the act of grace through personal faith. See God; Jesus Christ; Holy Spirit.




[edit on 31-3-2007 by Andy Warhol]

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
And for the second time no I wouldn't want everyone beating their brains out.

Without acknowledging the apparent intolerance in your position. Sure you "wouldn't want everyone beating their brains out" yet at the same time, you post that only Christians get into Heaven. Great. Lutherans or Catholics? Anglicans or Baptists? Methodists or Seventh Day Adventists?

Believe it or not, this life is about getting along. We can do it if we try but it takes some give and take. In Lodge, my prayers are to the Big Three. Our Junior Deacon? He prays as is appropriate for Sikhs. Am I intimidated? No. Why should I be? Is he a bad man? Not at all. Am I supposed to treat him as one because we genuflect differently? To what end?

I'm sorry you think and feel as you do. Just these few posts confirm for me that you need more understanding of the human condition in real life.

And for the second time no I wouldn't want everyone beating their brains out. Would the Holy Spirit really lead a Christian to join the Masonic Lodge? Would the Spirit lead a Pastor to join an organization which teaches that it has divine truths that are revealed only after he receives a new birth within Freemasonry?

The Grand Lodge of South Carolina says the following about the person who is about to become an Entered Apprentice:

There he stands without our portals, on the threshold of this new Masonic life, in darkness, helplessness, and ignorance. Having been wandering amid the errors and covered over with the pollutions of the outer and profane world, he comes inquiringly to our doors, seeking the new birth, and asking a withdrawal of the veil which conceals divine truth from his uninitiated sight. South Carolina Book of Constitutions, 1947, p. 61, Grand Lodge of South Carolina

The Scriptures speak about darkness and the position which a Christian holds:

When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” John 8:12

It seems that when they view a Christian as one who is in darkness and ignorance, they are either denying that he is in Christ, or that Jesus is the light of the world. In the EA degree, you will be presented as one from the world of darkness seeking to be brought to light. Given that you are well aware of John 8:12, can you allow them to present you in lodge in that manner without taking part in a denial of Jesus Christ yourself?

Denying Jesus is a serious matter:

“Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven. Matthew 10:32

Would the Holy Spirit lead ANY Christian to knowingly take part in a ritual in which Jesus Christ is being denied for him? Can he avoid guilt if he allows himself to be presented to the lodge in this way? Freemasonry defines the GAOTU to include Vishnu, Krishna, Allah, Ahura Mazda, Buddha, Baal and any other name which men worship.

The Grand Lodge of Indiana has admitted that the GAOTU they worship is really not God, at all, but simply a symbol.

"Freemasonry is non-sectarian. Before its altar Christian, Jew, Mohammedan, Buddhist, Gentile, Confucian, may kneel together. Indiana Mentor's Manual p. 17

One fundamental of Freemasonry is its non-sectarian character. Any man may offer his devotions to the Deity he reveres, under the Masonic title, no matter what name he may use in his religious worship. . . Thus, Great Architect of the Universe (or any of its variations) is a symbol of Deity as named and worshiped in all religions. Indiana Mentor’s Manual, p. 49

The Grand Lodge of Indiana is not alone. The Grand Lodge of California holds the same position:

Great Architect or Great Artificer of the Universe.

Under these titles, Freemasonry refers to Deity. A fundamental of Freemasonry is its nonsectarian character; any man of any religion may offer his devotions to the Deity he reveres, no matter what name he may use in his mind, under the Masonic title. Great Architect of the Universe (or any of its variations) is a symbol of Deity as named and worshiped in all religions. Handbook for Candidates Coaches, Grand Lodge of California, p. 22

The official position is that in Lodge, Masons worship a symbol known as the Great Architect of the Universe. Worship of a symbol is idolatry. Pastors who condone this within their flock should read Ezekiel 33. If the watchman holds his tongue, the sword will still kill, but the watchman will have blood on his hands. Don't be the kind of pastor who lets the Masons in his congregation go to hell without hearing a word of warning from your pulpit. Consider the following teachings of the Grand Lodges.

339. MASONRY AND RELIGION
Masonry has no religious dogma other than that it requires a belief in Deity. Any man, good and true, whether he be Christian, Jew, Mohammedan, Parsee, Buddhist, Brahman or Deist may be admitted to Masonry because all these religions require a belief in Deity. Masonic Code of Alabama, p. 141-2, 1963

Masons believe that there is one God and that people employ many different ways to seek and to express what they know of God. Masons primarily uses (sic) the appellation, "Grand Architect of the Universe," and other non-sectarian titles, to address Deity. In this way, persons of different faiths may join together in prayer, concentrating on God rather than on differences among themselves. Masonry believes in religious freedom and that the relationship between the individual and God is personal, private and sacred. Masonic Manual of Minnesota, p16, 1998

As Masons we have one faith, one hope, one charity. We believe in, and depend upon the same God, have the same hope of eternal life, and that same charity which is of an enduring and uniting nature, which will enable all the good and true to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace and in righteousness of life. Kentucky Monitor, p. 169

Freemasonry teaches that Christians, Jews, Mohammedans, Parsees, Buddhists, Hindus and Deists all worship the one true and living God and have the same hope of eternal life. It defines God to include the gods of all pagan religions its members embrace, and the God of the Christian. As Masons, they stand united in this religious belief. It is heresy.
The Kentucky Monitor is the official publication of the Grand Lodge of Kentucky, given to men who are raised to Master Masons in Kentucky Lodges. The Grand Lodge is the central authority in its jurisdiction. The Kentucky Monitor is authoritative for Kentucky Masons. It is not something from the fringe, but rather something from the central authority. That publication stands in the same position that any other Grand Lodge monitor would stand in within its jurisdiction.
The issue is not the words used, but rather the teaching the words convey. If you believe that those words do not convey the correct understanding of the Masonic position, possibly you haven't carefully considered the foundational teachings of Freemasonry and its requirements for membership. One of the universally accepted Landmarks of Freemasonry states the following:

MONOTHEISM is the sole dogma of Freemasonry. Belief in one God is required of every initiate, but hs conception of the Supreme Being is left to his own interpretation. Indiana Monitor and Freemason's Guide, p. 41, 1993

Monotheism is the doctrine or belief that there is only one God. My dictionary defines Supreme Being as God. Substituting God for Supreme being in the landmark position above, we have:

Belief in ONE GOD is required of every initiate, but his conception of THE GOD is left to his own interpretation.

Notice that the landmark position is not that his conception of his own God is left to his own interpretation. It states that his conception of THE GOD is left to his own interpretation. Freemasonry holds that there is only one God, but that its members may have different interpretations concerning this one God.

As a requirement of membership, Freemasonry requires belief in the existence of A Supreme Being. The Masonic position is there is only one Supreme Being. If a member believes in a Supreme Being, from the Masonic position, he must believe in The Supreme Being, because there is no other.

Given these Masonic positions and the fact that that Christians, Jews, Mohammedans, Parsees, Buddhists, Hindus and Deists are accepted into Freemasonry as satisfying the belief requirement, the conclusion that Freemasonry teaches that the God of Christians, as well as the gods of the Mohammedans, Parsees, Buddhists, Hindus and any other pagan Mason are in fact the ONE GOD, is unavoidable.

But, lets take it from your perspective (as I understand it) and see how much support we can get from the Masonic brethren. I believe that you are taking the position that the Hindu Mason, the Buddhist Mason, the Zoroastrian (Parsee) Mason and the Mohammedan Mason all worship a different god or gods which are not the God of the Christian Mason. Personally, that is the position that I take. Let's see how many Masons we can get to agree with us.

Masons, how many of you believe that the Hindu Mason, the Buddhist Mason, the Zoroastrian Mason and the Christian Mason worship different Gods?

Wayne, I believe that we will find that Masons take the position that all Masons worship the same God. It is given that these different Masons invoke different names when they worship. Obviously, Calvin would not have taken the position that the god of the Hindu, the Buddhist, the Zoroastrian and the God of the Christian are all included in his conception The Great Architect of the Universe. However, Freemasonry does.

As far as the Kentucky Monitor being widely accepted, it is accepted as an authoritative work published by one of the legitimate authorities of Freemasonry. All of the US Grand Lodges recogniFrom the official website of U.G.L.E.(Grand Lodge of England), we find this about the essential qualifications for becoming a Mason:
"The essential qualification for admission into and continuing membership is a belief in a Supreme Being. Membership is open to men of any race or religion who can fulfil this essential qualification and who are of good repute."

In another section of the official site, it is stated:
"The essential qualifications for admission is that you have a belief in a Supreme Being."

Here, as with Grand Lodges on this side of the pond, the belief requirement is that each member is required to have some sort of a belief in something he regards to be a Supreme Being.

In a Q&A section of the site, we find this:
"Q. Why do you call God the Great Architect?
A. Freemasonry embraces all men who believe in God. Its membership includes Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, Parsees and others. The use of descriptions such as the Great Architect prevents disharmony. The Great Architect is not a specific Masonic god or an attempt to combine all gods into one. Thus, men of differing religions pray together without offense being given to any of them."

You will notice, by the answer given, U.G.L.E. is saying that all gods believed in by all men of all religions, is, Masonically, "God". It is Masonry's GAOTU that Masonry refers to when it says God, no matter which Grand Lodge we are talking about, including U.G.L.E. Pitifully, U.G.L.E. then tries to skate out from under Masonry's concept of GAOTU saying it is no attempt to combine all gods into one. Yet, logic demands that when engaged in corporate prayer in the lodge room, "Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, Parsees and others" are said to be praying to the Gods of their own faiths/religions.

This is very much in accord with the Grand Lodges of the United States, and all Grand Lodges that are recognized by one another, which includes U.G.L.E.. This is in accord with the "common bond" among all Grand Lodges, that being their commonality of tenets, teachings, etc.: "Every Grand Lodge is independent and owes allegiance to no higher authority. Each Grand Lodge adopts its own laws, ritual, and standards and governs all Symbolic Lodges and Freemasons within its jurisdiction. Nevertheless, ancient Masonic usages, customs and principles bind the Grand Lodges together. There are but slight differences in ritual and regulations and none whatever in basic Masonic precepts." ('Freemasonry - A Way Of Life' - Nevada, pg. 7)

ze the Kentucky Grand Lodge, as does the Grand Lodge of England.the U.G.L.E. views the GAOTU of Freemasonry the same way all the other Grand Lodges view it - a polytheistic montage that is required to be whatever any of its members want it to be.
The fact that the lodge would go to such trouble to create a generic god is evidence that it is, indeed, engaging in syncretism at best or polytheism at worst, neither of which are acceptable to God. God deplored such blendings when the children of Israel were making their way through the wilderness, He deplored it when they entered the Promised Land, and as far as I have been able to tell, He deplores it today. I realize that you want to make the lodge room the exception, but I'm not sure God will agree with your request for a zone variance.
Too many "ifs". Freemasonry has already told us its GAOTU is whatever anybody wants it to be. Further, all except the Christians, in such circumstances, reject the True and Living God because they reject Jesus Christ as being a part of that Triune Godhead who is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Perhaps four statements can summarize and clarify this study.
1. God is One. The God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament. His offer of salvation in the Old Testament receives a fuller revelation in the New Testament in a way that is not different, but more complete. The doctrine of the Trinity does not abandon the monotheistic faith of Israel.

2. God has three distinct ways of being in the redemptive event, yet He remains an undivided unity. That God the Father imparts Himself to mankind through Son and Spirit without ceasing to be Himself is at the very heart of the Christian faith. A compromise in either the absolute sameness of the Godhead or the true diversity reduces the reality of salvation.

3. The primary way of grasping the concept of the Trinity is through the threefold participation in salvation. The approach of the New Testament is not to discuss the essence of the Godhead, but the particular aspects of the revelatory event that includes the definitive presence of the Father in the person of Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit.

4. The doctrine of the Trinity is an absolute mystery. It is primarily known, not through speculation, but through experiencing the act of grace through personal faith. See God; Jesus Christ; Holy Spirit.

And just by the few replies left by you. I have learned that you really need to read the bible and drop the masonic spin. And instead of making garbage replies it is easy to see you can't and won't debate what is stated. These and many other comments are filled with actual qoutes from masonic monitors. And it's easy to see that you can't defend masonry when it states the true intent of the lodge.

Originally posted by Andy Warhol


Here is where the problem lies. While you may well be using His name in your lodge prayers, your lodge is teaching a way to heaven that totally ignores Jesus Christ. It is explained, in this very lodge you speak of where you presumably call upon His name, that the lambskin apron symbolizes that "purity of life and rectitude of conduct, which is so essentially necessary for gaining admission to that celestial lodge above, . ." This is purely a works-based teaching for salvation, as opposed to faith in Jesus Christ. Hence, it is a matter of calling upon His name, but ignoring His authority.

That which you seem to be seeing as our difficulty in understanding the innocence of dual involvement in both Freemasonry and the Christian faith, appears to be tantamount to seeing no harm in both partaking, and not partaking, of the fruit of "the tree that is in the midst of the garden".

First, allow to me clarify my position. I am not a Pauline Christian, nor do I want to be. The central teachings of theological Christianity are a Jewish version of the Egyptian Osirian religion. In this sense, "Jesus" is identical to Osiris, Mithras, Adonis, etc. In effect, theological Christianity is simply sun worship in disguise. Even modern Christianity's highest rite, that of the Eucharist, is essentially the same as that practiced by the Cult of Osiris in old Khem.

Therefore, when Christians begin accusing others of "paganism", there plight becomes pitiful indeed. What could more "pagan" than a Christian, or more hypocritical than a Christian denouncing paganism?

While you CLAIM to be closing prayers in the name of Jesus in lodge, the truth of the matter is that all prayers in ritual are prescribed. The name, Jesus Christ, is not found in Masonic ritual.

I do not CLAIM any such thing. If Christian Masons want to say Christian prayers, that's their business. However, I certainly do not condone such things within a Masonic Lodge if non-Christian members are present.

As far as your claim as to what the Hiramic Legend teaches, you show yourself to be uninformed on this matter, as to its purpose:
"Here is the SUBLIME climax of the symbolic Degrees, and if a Brother misses its meaning, and sees the living dying and "raising" of the Master only as a literal drama - designed to teach the virtues of fortitude and inflexible fidelity, he has found Light but partially. To him the Sublime Degree is no more than a theatrical play with a moral." ('The Lodge System Of Masonic Education - Nevada')

What's that have to do with being "uninformed". I don't remember anyone ever stating on here that the drama of Hiram was literal history.

would try to make it appear as though the Legend is intended to be "no more than a theatrical play with a moral.", ignoring the fact that the Grand Lodge says those Brothers who see it only as such, have missed the purpose, and have only found partial light. The statement I additionally quoted makes it even more obvious that those who miss its significance "remain forever in outer darkness."

This would imply that the partial light found in the first and second degrees means nothing if the purpose of the Legend is missed.

Not at all. I most sincerely doubt that the officials of the Grand Lodge of Nevada (or any Grand Lodge these days, for that matter) understands the meaning of the ritual.

So, please tell me, Masonic Light, how is anybody supposed to know if a brother is erring, without judging him to be erring?

Obviously, one cannot.

I have always wondered why it is that defenders of the religion of Freemasonry seem to consider truth as being an attack.

They do not. They consider lies, ignorance, and bigotry masquerading as "truth" to be an attack.

Well I don't think it was meant to be sun worship (in ancient egypt, that is), until later. For example, in the Legend of Re and Hathor, you see echoes of the past in which the Eye of Re (Ra) is not even remotely referencing the sun.

Originally posted by undo
Well I don't think it was meant to be sun worship (in ancient egypt, that is), until later. For example, in the Legend of Re and Hathor, you see echoes of the past in which the Eye of Re (Ra) is not even remotely referencing the sun.

I agree. It was the Osirian Cult that introduced the strict adherence to sun worship.

Occult author and researcher Dr. Michael Aquino, former High Priest of the Temple of Set, had some interesting things to say on this subject. Aquino points out that practically all modern occultism (which he refers to as "Right Hand Path") draws its major inspiration from the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, which is Osirian in nature.

Aquino's main contribution, IMO, is pointing out that the Osirian Cult, along with its mysteries and priests, were already decadent. Previously to Osirianism, the Cult of Set was predominate, and he was considered a lunar deity. Set was then turned "evil" by the Osirian Cult in an attempt to replace him with a solar god (even though originally Osiris himself was lunar).

Can you link me up to references of Osiris as a lunar deity? For my research.

thanks

Originally posted by undo
Can you link me up to references of Osiris as a lunar deity? For my research.

thanks

Actually, any book or website on ancient Egypt mythology, anthropology, and archaeology will have plenty of details. Bulge's work is considered the authoritive, but the references are legion. A Google search of "Osiris lunar deity" just generated over 42,000 hits.