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Scrutiny of Anti-Freemasons
page: 4share:
Seraphim_Serpente nice reply from a closet freemason Keep making to pitiful oaths about letting someone burn your endtrails.
The "All-Seeing Eye", in modern times, is a Masonic symbol. The symbol itself is derived from the paganism of the Ancient Mystery Religions. In ritual, 'The Louisiana Monitor' says this about the All-Seeing Eye:
". .yet that All_Seeing Eye, whom the Sun, Moon, and Stars obey, and under whose watchful care even Comets perform their stupendous evolutions, pervades the inmost recesses of the human Heart and will reward us according to our merits."
Its origin is explained elsewhere in that same monitor:
"EYE OF OSIRIS - THE ALL-SEEING EYE
"In most of the ancient languages of Asia 'eye' and 'sun' are expressed by the same word, and the ancient Egyptians hieroglyphically represented their principal deity, the sun-god Osiris, by the figures of an open eye, emblematic of the sun, by whose light we are enabled to see, and which itself looks down from the midst of heaven and beholds all things. In like manner Masons have emblematically represented the omniscience of the Great Architect of the Universe. We have here a copy of the ancient Egyptian emblem of the eye of Osiris, taken from the ancient monuments, and found both painted and sculptured on the yet remaining temple walls."
And about the Legend of Hiram Abif, the same source tells us:
"Against the notion that it is the representation of an event that actually occurred in the Temple, it may well be urged that, outside of Masonic tradition, there is no proof that such an event as is related in connection with the Temple-Builder ever took place; and, besides, the ceremony is older, by far, than the age of Solomon. There are characters impressed upon it which cannot be mistaken. It is thoroughly Egyptian, and is closely allied to the supreme rite of the Isianic mysteries. . . ."This myth is the prototype of the Temple legend."
You are correct about dual meanings. The Legend of Hiram Abif is admittedly an allegory. Allegory: "A long and complicated story with an underlying meaning different from the surface meaning itself." (World Book Dictionary) While its outward explanation is presumable that it represents a lesson in courage and trust, the deeper meaning is the candidate's baptism into the false religion of Freemasonry, hence the symbolic death, burial and resurrection.
The problem that confronts men in the lodge who claim to be Christians, is that while they, on the one hand, claim that they reject the heretical teachings of Freemasonry and embrace the doctrine of the Christian faith, they are also, on the other hand, telling the lodge that they embrace the tenets and teachings of Freemasonry.
Before a person is allowed to enter the lodge room to begin the initiatory process, he must first answer in the affirmative, that he will cheerfully conform to the ancient usages and customs of the Craft. In other words, he is agreeing to conform to Freemasonry's tenets and teachings.
So, on the one hand, such a person claims, as a Christian, that salvation is only through Jesus Christ; but on the other hand, he has agreed to conform to Masonry's denial of the exclusivity of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, embracing good words as sufficient for salvation.
Such a person also claims on the one hand that the only True and Living God is He who is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; yet in the lodge room, he embraces the concept of Freemasonry's "GAOTU", which it claims to be the one symbol all men of all religions can pray to, and still be praying to whoever or whatever each of them says is his god. At the very least, calling upon Freemasonry's "GAOTU" is a calling out to the demon spirits posing as gods in the false religions of the world, and bringing them into the presence of all the men assembled in the lodge room. Not good.
Yeah I know it's 2007. You are the one living in the past. When was masonry introduced? Now go hang with your brothers at the lodge and play secret password games to get into the club house
[edit on 24-3-2007 by Andy Warhol]
The "All-Seeing Eye", in modern times, is a Masonic symbol. The symbol itself is derived from the paganism of the Ancient Mystery Religions. In ritual, 'The Louisiana Monitor' says this about the All-Seeing Eye:
". .yet that All_Seeing Eye, whom the Sun, Moon, and Stars obey, and under whose watchful care even Comets perform their stupendous evolutions, pervades the inmost recesses of the human Heart and will reward us according to our merits."
Its origin is explained elsewhere in that same monitor:
"EYE OF OSIRIS - THE ALL-SEEING EYE
"In most of the ancient languages of Asia 'eye' and 'sun' are expressed by the same word, and the ancient Egyptians hieroglyphically represented their principal deity, the sun-god Osiris, by the figures of an open eye, emblematic of the sun, by whose light we are enabled to see, and which itself looks down from the midst of heaven and beholds all things. In like manner Masons have emblematically represented the omniscience of the Great Architect of the Universe. We have here a copy of the ancient Egyptian emblem of the eye of Osiris, taken from the ancient monuments, and found both painted and sculptured on the yet remaining temple walls."
And about the Legend of Hiram Abif, the same source tells us:
"Against the notion that it is the representation of an event that actually occurred in the Temple, it may well be urged that, outside of Masonic tradition, there is no proof that such an event as is related in connection with the Temple-Builder ever took place; and, besides, the ceremony is older, by far, than the age of Solomon. There are characters impressed upon it which cannot be mistaken. It is thoroughly Egyptian, and is closely allied to the supreme rite of the Isianic mysteries. . . ."This myth is the prototype of the Temple legend."
You are correct about dual meanings. The Legend of Hiram Abif is admittedly an allegory. Allegory: "A long and complicated story with an underlying meaning different from the surface meaning itself." (World Book Dictionary) While its outward explanation is presumable that it represents a lesson in courage and trust, the deeper meaning is the candidate's baptism into the false religion of Freemasonry, hence the symbolic death, burial and resurrection.
The problem that confronts men in the lodge who claim to be Christians, is that while they, on the one hand, claim that they reject the heretical teachings of Freemasonry and embrace the doctrine of the Christian faith, they are also, on the other hand, telling the lodge that they embrace the tenets and teachings of Freemasonry.
Before a person is allowed to enter the lodge room to begin the initiatory process, he must first answer in the affirmative, that he will cheerfully conform to the ancient usages and customs of the Craft. In other words, he is agreeing to conform to Freemasonry's tenets and teachings.
So, on the one hand, such a person claims, as a Christian, that salvation is only through Jesus Christ; but on the other hand, he has agreed to conform to Masonry's denial of the exclusivity of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, embracing good words as sufficient for salvation.
Such a person also claims on the one hand that the only True and Living God is He who is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; yet in the lodge room, he embraces the concept of Freemasonry's "GAOTU", which it claims to be the one symbol all men of all religions can pray to, and still be praying to whoever or whatever each of them says is his god. At the very least, calling upon Freemasonry's "GAOTU" is a calling out to the demon spirits posing as gods in the false religions of the world, and bringing them into the presence of all the men assembled in the lodge room. Not good.
Yeah I know it's 2007. You are the one living in the past. When was masonry introduced? Now go hang with your brothers at the lodge and play secret password games to get into the club house
[edit on 24-3-2007 by Andy Warhol]
False Religion of Freemasonry
OK just ignore my statement that Freemasonry is NOT a Religion. Also thanks for NOT answering my question on just what exactly constitutes a "False" Religion vs. a "True" Religion.
Heretical Teachings of Freemasonry
Heretical according to whom? Oh yes, according to you & your ilk. Sorry Andy - but I like to Judge & Interpret things for myself. I also like Think & Act for myself - "Freely" if you will - get it -> Free-Will! I also take Responsibility for my actions - not just blame "Satan" every time something goes wrong!
You are entitled to your opinion that everyone who is not an Orthodox Christian is a servant of Satan & will burn in Hell. I am just here to let you know that it is an Ignorant opinion. But hey if you want to put your Brain in a Box called "Literal Bible Interpretation" - toss it in the Attic & let it collect dust up there - hey man, that is up to you! Good Luck!
[edit on 24-3-2007 by Seraphim_Serpente]
[edit on 24-3-2007 by Seraphim_Serpente]
Seraphim_Serpente
In the Middle Chamber Lecture of the Fellow Craft Degree, the pillars are explained to the initiate:
". .we necessarily pass between two pillars or columns, representing those pillars erected at the entrance to the porch of King Solomon's Temple; one on the right hand, the other on the left. The name of the one on the left hand was Boaz, denoting strength; theme of the one on the right, Jackin, denoting establishment, . ."(Nevada Fellow Craft Monitor)
In 1 Kings, we are told that two pillars, designated Jachin and Boaz, were at the entrance to the porch. Beyond the porch was that which is called the Holy Place, wherein are found the Altar of Incense and the Tables of Shewbread; and beyond the Holy Place, through a veil, was the Holy of Holies, which was specially associated with the presence of Yahweh.
Looking at most any diagram of a lodge room found in monitors or possibly on Masonic websites, the two pillars are seen as being at the extreme west end of the lodge room, usually on each side of the inner door, which is in the west, to the left of the Senior Warden, or, placed on each side of the Senior Warden's station, which is against the west wall of the lodge room. In either case, by the location of the pillars in a Masonic lodge room, all in attendance are necessarily directed to all that is happening to the east of the pillars, necessitating everyone there to turn their backs to the west which, according to the location of the true pillars of Jachin and Boaz, would necessitate turning their backs on the presence of Yahweh. Further, there is an altar in the middle of the lodge room, and in practically all grand lodge jurisdictions, none are to pass between the Worshipful Master's station in the east, and the altar. In essence, all may stand west of the altar, placing them between the altar and the pillars, but none may pass between the altar and the east.
Bearing this in mind, let us now let the Written Word of God speak to the issue. It is somewhat lengthy, leading up to that portion I have highlighted, but I believe the context is pertinent:
Ezekiel 8:1-18:
It came about in the sixth year, on the fifth day of the sixth month, as I was sitting in my house with the elders of Judah sitting before me, that the hand of the Lord GOD fell on me there.
Then I looked, and behold, a likeness as the appearance of a man; from His loins and downward there was the appearance of fire, and from His loins and upward the appearance of brightness, like the appearance of glowing metal.
He stretched out the form of a hand and caught me by a lock of my head; and the Spirit lifted me up between earth and heaven and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the entrance of the north gate of the inner court, where the seat of the idol of jealousy, which provokes to jealousy, was located.
And behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, like the appearance which I saw in the plain.
Then He said to me, “Son of man, raise your eyes now toward the north.” So I raised my eyes toward the north, and behold, to the north of the altar gate was this idol of jealousy at the entrance.
And He said to me, “Son of man, do you see what they are doing, the great abominations which the house of Israel are committing here, so that I would be far from My sanctuary? But yet you will see still greater abominations.”
Then He brought me to the entrance of the court, and when I looked, behold, a hole in the wall.
He said to me, “Son of man, now dig through the wall.” So I dug through the wall, and behold, an entrance.
And He said to me, “Go in and see the wicked abominations that they are committing here.”
So I entered and looked, and behold, every form of creeping things and beasts and detestable things, with all the idols of the house of Israel, were carved on the wall all around.
Standing in front of them were seventy elders of the house of Israel, with Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan standing among them, each man with his censer in his hand and the fragrance of the cloud of incense rising.
Then He said to me, “Son of man, do you see what the elders of the house of Israel are committing in the dark, each man in the room of his carved images? For they say, ‘The LORD does not see us; the LORD has forsaken the land.’”
And He said to me, “Yet you will see still greater abominations which they are committing.”
About the twig, or branch, to their nose, we find this in 'Adam Clarke's Commentary':
Ezekiel 8:17: "This is supposed to mean some branch or branches, which they carried in succession in honour of the idol, and with which they covered their faces, or from which they inhaled a pleasant smell, the branches being odoriferous. That the heathens carried branches of trees in their sacred ceremonies is well known to all persons acquainted with classic antiquity; and it is probable that the heathen borrowed those from the use of such branches in the Jewish feast of tabernacles. There are many strange, and some filthy, interpretations given of this clause; but the former are not worth repeating, and I abominate the latter too much to submit to defile my paper with them. Probably the Brahminic Linga is here intended.
It really seems that at this time the Jews had incorporated every species of idolatry in their impure worship,-Phoenician, Egyptian, and Persian. I might add that some imagine the image of jealousy to be a personification of idolatry itself."
In much the same manner, Freemasonry brings forth as acceptable, "every species of idolatry in their impure worship", by their very admitted "essence", if you will, of their own "Great Architect Of The Universe".
Seraphim_Serpente ...
In the Middle Chamber Lecture of the Fellow Craft Degree, the pillars are explained to the initiate:
". .we necessarily pass between two pillars or columns, representing those pillars erected at the entrance to the porch of King Solomon's Temple; one on the right hand, the other on the left. The name of the one on the left hand was Boaz, denoting strength; theme of the one on the right, Jackin, denoting establishment, . ."(Nevada Fellow Craft Monitor)
In 1 Kings, we are told that two pillars, designated Jachin and Boaz, were at the entrance to the porch. Beyond the porch was that which is called the Holy Place, wherein are found the Altar of Incense and the Tables of Shewbread; and beyond the Holy Place, through a veil, was the Holy of Holies, which was specially associated with the presence of Yahweh.
Looking at most any diagram of a lodge room found in monitors or possibly on Masonic websites, the two pillars are seen as being at the extreme west end of the lodge room, usually on each side of the inner door, which is in the west, to the left of the Senior Warden, or, placed on each side of the Senior Warden's station, which is against the west wall of the lodge room. In either case, by the location of the pillars in a Masonic lodge room, all in attendance are necessarily directed to all that is happening to the east of the pillars, necessitating everyone there to turn their backs to the west which, according to the location of the true pillars of Jachin and Boaz, would necessitate turning their backs on the presence of Yahweh. Further, there is an altar in the middle of the lodge room, and in practically all grand lodge jurisdictions, none are to pass between the Worshipful Master's station in the east, and the altar. In essence, all may stand west of the altar, placing them between the altar and the pillars, but none may pass between the altar and the east.
Bearing this in mind, let us now let the Written Word of God speak to the issue. It is somewhat lengthy, leading up to that portion I have highlighted, but I believe the context is pertinent:
Ezekiel 8:1-18:
It came about in the sixth year, on the fifth day of the sixth month, as I was sitting in my house with the elders of Judah sitting before me, that the hand of the Lord GOD fell on me there.
Then I looked, and behold, a likeness as the appearance of a man; from His loins and downward there was the appearance of fire, and from His loins and upward the appearance of brightness, like the appearance of glowing metal.
He stretched out the form of a hand and caught me by a lock of my head; and the Spirit lifted me up between earth and heaven and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the entrance of the north gate of the inner court, where the seat of the idol of jealousy, which provokes to jealousy, was located.
And behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, like the appearance which I saw in the plain.
Then He said to me, “Son of man, raise your eyes now toward the north.” So I raised my eyes toward the north, and behold, to the north of the altar gate was this idol of jealousy at the entrance.
And He said to me, “Son of man, do you see what they are doing, the great abominations which the house of Israel are committing here, so that I would be far from My sanctuary? But yet you will see still greater abominations.”
Then He brought me to the entrance of the court, and when I looked, behold, a hole in the wall.
He said to me, “Son of man, now dig through the wall.” So I dug through the wall, and behold, an entrance.
And He said to me, “Go in and see the wicked abominations that they are committing here.”
So I entered and looked, and behold, every form of creeping things and beasts and detestable things, with all the idols of the house of Israel, were carved on the wall all around.
Standing in front of them were seventy elders of the house of Israel, with Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan standing among them, each man with his censer in his hand and the fragrance of the cloud of incense rising.
Then He said to me, “Son of man, do you see what the elders of the house of Israel are committing in the dark, each man in the room of his carved images? For they say, ‘The LORD does not see us; the LORD has forsaken the land.’”
And He said to me, “Yet you will see still greater abominations which they are committing.”
About the twig, or branch, to their nose, we find this in 'Adam Clarke's Commentary':
Ezekiel 8:17: "This is supposed to mean some branch or branches, which they carried in succession in honour of the idol, and with which they covered their faces, or from which they inhaled a pleasant smell, the branches being odoriferous. That the heathens carried branches of trees in their sacred ceremonies is well known to all persons acquainted with classic antiquity; and it is probable that the heathen borrowed those from the use of such branches in the Jewish feast of tabernacles. There are many strange, and some filthy, interpretations given of this clause; but the former are not worth repeating, and I abominate the latter too much to submit to defile my paper with them. Probably the Brahminic Linga is here intended.
It really seems that at this time the Jews had incorporated every species of idolatry in their impure worship,-Phoenician, Egyptian, and Persian. I might add that some imagine the image of jealousy to be a personification of idolatry itself."
In much the same manner, Freemasonry brings forth as acceptable, "every species of idolatry in their impure worship", by their very admitted "essence", if you will, of their own "Great Architect Of The Universe".
Seraphim_Serpente ...
So, you quote the Bible at length and then at the very end you spout THIS:
Is that all you have got? OK listen first of all - *THAT IS ONLY YOUR OWN OPINION*!!! Second of all, Freemasonry is a TOLERANT Fraternity & by their own admission does not require members to be of a particular Religion or Faith. Yes they would let in not only Christians & Jews - but Hindus, Buddhists, Moslems & members of other Faiths as well! All that is required is "Faith & Acknowledgment of the Existence of a Higher Power". Do you find this shocking? Tell the Truth Andy - THAT is what you find so disturbing about the title "Great Architect of the Universe" is it not? That is why they came up with the title in the first place & that is why - although there are MANY Christian Masons - Proselytizing in the name of Jesus Christ is not allowed inside the Lodge. Again Freemasonry is about Tolerance & Fraternity - it is NOT a Church & it is Certainly not a Fundamentalist Indoctrination Institute!
[edit on 25-3-2007 by Seraphim_Serpente]
[edit on 25-3-2007 by Seraphim_Serpente]
In much the same manner, Freemasonry brings forth as acceptable, "every species of idolatry in their impure worship", by their very admitted "essence", if you will, of their own "Great Architect Of The Universe".
Is that all you have got? OK listen first of all - *THAT IS ONLY YOUR OWN OPINION*!!! Second of all, Freemasonry is a TOLERANT Fraternity & by their own admission does not require members to be of a particular Religion or Faith. Yes they would let in not only Christians & Jews - but Hindus, Buddhists, Moslems & members of other Faiths as well! All that is required is "Faith & Acknowledgment of the Existence of a Higher Power". Do you find this shocking? Tell the Truth Andy - THAT is what you find so disturbing about the title "Great Architect of the Universe" is it not? That is why they came up with the title in the first place & that is why - although there are MANY Christian Masons - Proselytizing in the name of Jesus Christ is not allowed inside the Lodge. Again Freemasonry is about Tolerance & Fraternity - it is NOT a Church & it is Certainly not a Fundamentalist Indoctrination Institute!
[edit on 25-3-2007 by Seraphim_Serpente]
[edit on 25-3-2007 by Seraphim_Serpente]
Seraphim_Serpente you keep spouting this garbage Freemasonry is a TOLERANT Fraternity. It's a joke. So I should comprise my beliefs and pray to a
deity that is no higher then Allah, Buddha, or Satan in the name of religious tolerance. Let me see here...
All that is required is "Faith & Acknowledgment of the Existence of a Higher Power". Do you find this shocking?
Yeah and any will do. And they are all on the same playing field. Let me think about this... All in the name of religious tolerance... Even if the bible says otherwise is exactly what your saying Seraphim_Serpente...
Freemasonry has a system of salvation, based on its own tenets and teachings, and said system of salvation comes to fruition, ala Freemasonry, with the resurrection of the candidate into the religion of Freemasonry, concluding the salvific process ala Freemasonry:
". .the drama of Hiram the Builder is a symbol of redemption - - and redemption is the central theme of this degree. 'Raised from a dead level to a living perpendicular' suggests far more than a physical accomplishment." ('Officers Manual of Lodge Organization and Operation' - Grand Lodge of Nevada)
"The important part of the degree is to symbolize the great doctrines of the resurrection of the body and the immortality of the soul; and hence it has been remarked by a learned writer of our Order that 'the Master Mason represents a man saved from the grave of iniquity, and raised to the faith of salvation.."
('North Carolina Lodge Manual', p. 53)
The Master Mason represents man, when youth, manhood, old age, and life itself have passed away as fleeting shadows, yet raised from the grave of iniquity, and quickened into another and better existence. By its legend and all its ritual, it is implied that we have been redeemed from the death of sin and the sepulchre of pollution."(South Carolina's 'Bood of Constitutions', page 141)
the question is asked before admission into lodge
membership, whether a person believes in a Supreme Being? And having
been asked that, is asked further in whom he is putting his trust?
The simple answer is, Freemasonry is a service-oriented institution,
and Freemasonry is quite in agreement with traditional Christianity,
that before one can be encouraged to do good works, there must first
come that relationship with God."
Here you have substituted something you present as being "simple", for accuracy, unless, of course, it is your premise that Allah, Baal, Ra, Lucifer, Krishna, Vishnu, or whatever else man might try to conjure up in his own mind as being his "god", truly is God.
Traditional Christianity tells us there is but one True and Living God:
"There is but one living and true God, everlasting, without body or parts, of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness; the maker and preserver of all things, both visible and invisible. And in unity of this Godhead there are three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity--the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost."
Whereas Freemasonry presents a symbol that its members are to pray to, claiming this to be a monotheistic belief: "Great Architect or Grand or Great Artificer of the Universe (G.A.O.T.U.) are titles under which Freemasonry refers to Deity. A fundamental of Freemasonry is its nonsectarian character. Any man of any religion may offer his devotions to the deity he reveres, under the Masonic title, no matter what name he uses in his mind. Great Architect of the Universe (or any of its variations) is a symbol of Deity as named and worshiped in all religions." ('Officers Manual of Lodge Organization and Operation' - Grand Lodge of Nevada)
Masonry presents a "god"(symbol) for its members to pray to; teaches a way to heaven(slavation); engages in a regeneration ceremony(baptism). Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck. And who, exactly, is "their" Creator,Are you trying to establish an intentionally erroneous assumption that all Masons believe in the True and Living God who is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Or, are you telling us that Allah, Krishna, Vishnu, Bessie the Cow, Lucifer, Baal, Ra, and whoever or whatever anybody wants to claims is his "Creator", is the same as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Looks to me like the only "fact" you are trying to establish has no base other than shifting sand. In the first place, none are required to profess a relationship with anything. All they are required to stipulate is that they believe in the existence of a supreme being, which is requiring absolutely nothing in the way of acceptance - only recognizing that something of a supreme nature exists.
[edit on 25-3-2007 by Andy Warhol]
All that is required is "Faith & Acknowledgment of the Existence of a Higher Power". Do you find this shocking?
Yeah and any will do. And they are all on the same playing field. Let me think about this... All in the name of religious tolerance... Even if the bible says otherwise is exactly what your saying Seraphim_Serpente...
Freemasonry has a system of salvation, based on its own tenets and teachings, and said system of salvation comes to fruition, ala Freemasonry, with the resurrection of the candidate into the religion of Freemasonry, concluding the salvific process ala Freemasonry:
". .the drama of Hiram the Builder is a symbol of redemption - - and redemption is the central theme of this degree. 'Raised from a dead level to a living perpendicular' suggests far more than a physical accomplishment." ('Officers Manual of Lodge Organization and Operation' - Grand Lodge of Nevada)
"The important part of the degree is to symbolize the great doctrines of the resurrection of the body and the immortality of the soul; and hence it has been remarked by a learned writer of our Order that 'the Master Mason represents a man saved from the grave of iniquity, and raised to the faith of salvation.."
('North Carolina Lodge Manual', p. 53)
The Master Mason represents man, when youth, manhood, old age, and life itself have passed away as fleeting shadows, yet raised from the grave of iniquity, and quickened into another and better existence. By its legend and all its ritual, it is implied that we have been redeemed from the death of sin and the sepulchre of pollution."(South Carolina's 'Bood of Constitutions', page 141)
the question is asked before admission into lodge
membership, whether a person believes in a Supreme Being? And having
been asked that, is asked further in whom he is putting his trust?
The simple answer is, Freemasonry is a service-oriented institution,
and Freemasonry is quite in agreement with traditional Christianity,
that before one can be encouraged to do good works, there must first
come that relationship with God."
Here you have substituted something you present as being "simple", for accuracy, unless, of course, it is your premise that Allah, Baal, Ra, Lucifer, Krishna, Vishnu, or whatever else man might try to conjure up in his own mind as being his "god", truly is God.
Traditional Christianity tells us there is but one True and Living God:
"There is but one living and true God, everlasting, without body or parts, of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness; the maker and preserver of all things, both visible and invisible. And in unity of this Godhead there are three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity--the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost."
Whereas Freemasonry presents a symbol that its members are to pray to, claiming this to be a monotheistic belief: "Great Architect or Grand or Great Artificer of the Universe (G.A.O.T.U.) are titles under which Freemasonry refers to Deity. A fundamental of Freemasonry is its nonsectarian character. Any man of any religion may offer his devotions to the deity he reveres, under the Masonic title, no matter what name he uses in his mind. Great Architect of the Universe (or any of its variations) is a symbol of Deity as named and worshiped in all religions." ('Officers Manual of Lodge Organization and Operation' - Grand Lodge of Nevada)
Masonry presents a "god"(symbol) for its members to pray to; teaches a way to heaven(slavation); engages in a regeneration ceremony(baptism). Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck. And who, exactly, is "their" Creator,Are you trying to establish an intentionally erroneous assumption that all Masons believe in the True and Living God who is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Or, are you telling us that Allah, Krishna, Vishnu, Bessie the Cow, Lucifer, Baal, Ra, and whoever or whatever anybody wants to claims is his "Creator", is the same as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Looks to me like the only "fact" you are trying to establish has no base other than shifting sand. In the first place, none are required to profess a relationship with anything. All they are required to stipulate is that they believe in the existence of a supreme being, which is requiring absolutely nothing in the way of acceptance - only recognizing that something of a supreme nature exists.
[edit on 25-3-2007 by Andy Warhol]
Originally posted by Andy Warhol
So I should comprise my beliefs and pray to a deity that is no higher then Allah, Buddha, or Satan in the name of religious tolerance.
You really should study some theology before you post such silliness Andy. "Allah" simply means "God" (not EVERYONE speaks English, you know?) Look it up. Dictionary.com will give you the genesis of the word. Allah is not a DIFFERENT "God" but is "God" (to spell it out in terms you can...maybe....understand...Allah is the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. "I am that I am" (Heard of him????)
As for Buddha and Satan...DIETY? Jesus, Mary and Joseph...give me a break!!! Not even their followers claim them to be "deity" Buddha was a PROPHET for goodness sake! ...and Satan...well I HOPE you know who the Satan of the Bible was.....Even entry-level religious scholars know THAT!
Guys like you never cease to amaze me Andy. You're so judgemental and yet you're not sharp enough to realize that the Bible that you love to thump so much says "Judge not lest ye be judged" Surprise Andy, it's talking to YOU and self-righteous holier-than-thou individuals like you! Self-righteousness is a sin, Andy, but I suppose you think you're above everyone else, like most of your kind do.
Your posts are pure vile. Vicious lies packed with hatred and ignorance. They are sickening at best and fly in the face of ANY true Christian.
Oh well Andy, go ahead...raise Hell 'till you fall off in it.
Let me see here...
Let ME see here.....
[edit on 25-3-2007 by Appak]
I should comprise my beliefs and pray to a Deity that is no higher...
Who says that Freemasons would require anyone to "Compromise their Beliefs" or "Pray to a Deity" other than their own? You are really starting to amuse me Andy! You have many Freemasons on this Forum - they will repeat to you what I have just stated and still you do not believe them. You yourself have come across the core Principle of what is meant by "Great Architect of the Universe" =
"Great Architect or Grand or Great Artificer of the Universe (G.A.O.T.U.) are titles under which Freemasonry *refers* to Deity. A fundamental of Freemasonry is its *nonsectarian character*. Any man of any religion may offer his devotions to the ***Deity he reveres, under the Masonic title, no matter what name he uses in his mind***. Great Architect of the Universe (or any of its variations) is a symbol of Deity as named and worshiped in all religions."
and STILL you do not understand. You delude & blind yourself. You spout out these theories that Freemasonry/Freemasons are Diabolical & Evil. Yet you have no PROOF - only your own OPINION!
Do us all a favor Andy - go ahead & go to your Church & read your Bible - but STOP trying to Slander an Organization that you are not a member of just because you don't understand the meaning of the word "Fraternity"!
I have the rite to be here as well as anyone else. The fact still remains you can't take the truth about your little religious "Fraternity" The
core principle of G.A.O.T.U. is that all roads lead to that great lodge in the sky. Oh wait...
The proof is in the monitors that are written for the masonic lodges. They clearly state everything you are trying to lie about.
You stated Masonry has no plan of Salvation, You are mistaken.
Masonry has converted the operative art of a Religion of "THE USE OF THE WORKING TOOLS" OF A MASON (SUCH AS THE SQUARE AND COMPASSES) and (THE PLUMB AND LEVEL) - "INTO" a "Speculative Science of Religion" of "Morality and Self Control".
Which has been converted and adapted from the "Operative Art" of Masonic Working tools of symbols of Morality and "INTO THE SYSTEM OF MORALITY" OF THE MASON "BY THE USE OF THESE MASONIC WORKING TOOLS".
Example : "The Square" to "Square" our actions
(Self Control) by "religious dead Works of Freemasonry".
And the "Compasses" to "Circumscribe" our "Desires" and to keep our "Passions" - "Within due Bounds". "Self control in our actions by the religious dead works of Freemasonry" (More religious Dead Works)
The "PLUMBLINE" - to "WALK UPRIGHTLY" - and Circumspectly before the world. (More Religious Dead Works)
The "Level" to respect our fellow man in all our actions - live a life above reproach. (More Religious Dead Works).
IN ORDER TO MAKE HIM "PERFECTED" THERERBY AND TO "FIT HIM" FOR THAT "SPRIRTUAL HOUSE" (OR "BUILDING" (OF HIS OWN SOUL) AS HE "WORKS" BY THE MASONIC SYSTEM OF MORALITY - HIS WAY HERE THROUGH THIS LIFE ON EARTH.
TO ENABLE HIM TO BE "PERFECTED AND FIT" FOR HIS ENTRANCE INTO THAT CELESTIAL LODGE ABOVE WHERE THE SUPREME ARCHITECH OF THE UNIVERSE PRESIDES.
All this "Working by the principles of Freemasonry" - In able to Perfect himself by this Masonic System of Morality and "DEAD WORKS" TO GET TO "THAT CELESTIAL LODGE ABOVE" WHERE THE "SUPREME ARCHITECH OF THE UNIVERSE PRESIDES"
Remember in the entered apprentice Degree in the Northeast Corner Lecture you were told - Quote :
"You stand before us tonight my brother to all outward apperance an upright man and Mason. Therefore you are placed in the Northeast Corner of the Lodge as a:
"REPRESENTATIVE OF THAT SPIRITUAL CONERSTONE" = "UPON WHICH YOU ARE TO ERECT" - "YOUR FUTURE MORAL" AND "MASONIC EDIFICE" OF YOUR SOUL.
"FOR TONIGHT YOU HAVE BEGUN THE ERECTION" OF "A SPIRITUAL TEMPLE" - "IN YOUR HEART"
Seraphim_Serpente Is the spiritual temple "In your heart"?
No plan of Salvation? - yet in the first degree you are taught you are "working" on preparing "your spiritual" temple (your body) and (spirit) for that "House not made by hands "ETERNAL IN THE HEAVENS"! By the Principles of Freemasonry.
Still Not a Plan of Salvation Seraphim_Serpente?
THE MASON IS CLEARLY TOLD HERE HE IS "PREPARING HIMSELF" (BY THE USE OF THESE MASONIC PRINCIPLES) TO MAKE HIM TO BE "FIT FOR HEAVEN"!
Now listen to the kinds of Masonic Qualities and Precepts and Materials he must Use:
Quote from the Northeast Cornet Lecture:
"And as the "QUALITIES" of a well "TRIED" "TRUE and "TRUSTY" cornerstone: "Are the Squareness of it's Surface" = "Emblemmatic of MORALITY".
It's "Cubical" form = emblematic of "STABILITY".
"INTEGRITY OF CHARACTER", AND "PURITY OF LIFE".
"Purity of Life" Seraphim_Serpente - Still No plan for Salvation?
Masonry goes even further to say :
"In the erection of this "YOUR SPIRITUAL TEMPLE"
"YOU SELECT" YOUR "OWN MATERIALS".
Still Not A Religion Seraphim_Serpente ?
Seraphim_Serpente using "YOUR OWN" materials - Which is to say "Saving your own Soul" in your own selection of the way it will be Saved - By the Manner in which you Save your own Soul? By the "Qualities" of Masonry? and how you of yourself build it?
Notice how Masonry teaches you HOW NOT to erect your "SPIRITUAL TEMPLE"
Quote : (From the Northeast Corner Lecture) =
"If you weave into it's structure - Envy and vice - hatred and Fraud, binding them together with the cement of infidelity. your house will be like the one built upon the sand. When it falls and when it falls as surely it must it will bury you beneath it's ruins and injure the Fraternity which tonight has so honored you".
Masonry goes even further in saying :
The Materials used in King Solomons Temple were Gold, Cedar, Marble and precious Stone:
If indeed you substitute "THE VIRTUES OF THE HEART" - "THE PURE EMOTIONS OF THE SOUL"
"THE WARM AFFECTIONS GUSHING FORTH FROM THE HIDDEN FOUNDATIONS OF THE "SPIRIT".
Seraphim_Serpente the "FOUNDATION" OF A CHRISTIAN IS JESUS CHRIST - Not a Masonic Cornetstone! and not obtained by any "System of Morality" of Freemasonry in the use of any "Dead works" of any Man made system or "Speculation" of any of this worlds system).
Quote ; = "AND YOUR MATERIALS CONSIST OF HONOR" "WISDOM" "JUSTICE AND TRUTH" AND "BROTHERLY LOVE UNITES THE WHOLE" - "YOUR EDIFICE WILL STAND AN HONOR TO YOURSELF AND A PRIDE TO FREEMASONRY" UNTILL TIMES LAST THUNDER SHAKES THE UNIVERSE.
Seraphim_Serpente Honor - wisdom - justice - truth (Not of God) which makes it a lie! will not Save you or any Man)
(And there is no "Brotherly Love" if The so called "Brother" is not Saved by faith in Jesus Christ as his Savior
Quote : "AND THE VERY PRESENCE OF THE GREAT GOD OF THE UNIVERSE OUR FATHER" AND "OUR GOD, "SHALL BE ENSHRINED WITHIN US HIS SHEKINAH WAS IN THE HOLY OF HOLIES IN THAT MATERIAL TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM".
Seraphim_Serpente
the only way that "GOD'S PRESENCE" can dwell in a man is for him to Know Jesus Christ as His Personal Savior.
Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh but in the spirit, if so be that the spirit of God dwell in you. NOW IF ANY MAN HAVE NOT THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST HE IS NONE OF HIS"
Romans 8:14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, THEY ARE THE SONS OF GOD"
Boy like my mom says,"The proof is in the pudding."
Freemasonry
The proof is in the monitors that are written for the masonic lodges. They clearly state everything you are trying to lie about.
You stated Masonry has no plan of Salvation, You are mistaken.
Masonry has converted the operative art of a Religion of "THE USE OF THE WORKING TOOLS" OF A MASON (SUCH AS THE SQUARE AND COMPASSES) and (THE PLUMB AND LEVEL) - "INTO" a "Speculative Science of Religion" of "Morality and Self Control".
Which has been converted and adapted from the "Operative Art" of Masonic Working tools of symbols of Morality and "INTO THE SYSTEM OF MORALITY" OF THE MASON "BY THE USE OF THESE MASONIC WORKING TOOLS".
Example : "The Square" to "Square" our actions
(Self Control) by "religious dead Works of Freemasonry".
And the "Compasses" to "Circumscribe" our "Desires" and to keep our "Passions" - "Within due Bounds". "Self control in our actions by the religious dead works of Freemasonry" (More religious Dead Works)
The "PLUMBLINE" - to "WALK UPRIGHTLY" - and Circumspectly before the world. (More Religious Dead Works)
The "Level" to respect our fellow man in all our actions - live a life above reproach. (More Religious Dead Works).
IN ORDER TO MAKE HIM "PERFECTED" THERERBY AND TO "FIT HIM" FOR THAT "SPRIRTUAL HOUSE" (OR "BUILDING" (OF HIS OWN SOUL) AS HE "WORKS" BY THE MASONIC SYSTEM OF MORALITY - HIS WAY HERE THROUGH THIS LIFE ON EARTH.
TO ENABLE HIM TO BE "PERFECTED AND FIT" FOR HIS ENTRANCE INTO THAT CELESTIAL LODGE ABOVE WHERE THE SUPREME ARCHITECH OF THE UNIVERSE PRESIDES.
All this "Working by the principles of Freemasonry" - In able to Perfect himself by this Masonic System of Morality and "DEAD WORKS" TO GET TO "THAT CELESTIAL LODGE ABOVE" WHERE THE "SUPREME ARCHITECH OF THE UNIVERSE PRESIDES"
Remember in the entered apprentice Degree in the Northeast Corner Lecture you were told - Quote :
"You stand before us tonight my brother to all outward apperance an upright man and Mason. Therefore you are placed in the Northeast Corner of the Lodge as a:
"REPRESENTATIVE OF THAT SPIRITUAL CONERSTONE" = "UPON WHICH YOU ARE TO ERECT" - "YOUR FUTURE MORAL" AND "MASONIC EDIFICE" OF YOUR SOUL.
"FOR TONIGHT YOU HAVE BEGUN THE ERECTION" OF "A SPIRITUAL TEMPLE" - "IN YOUR HEART"
Seraphim_Serpente Is the spiritual temple "In your heart"?
No plan of Salvation? - yet in the first degree you are taught you are "working" on preparing "your spiritual" temple (your body) and (spirit) for that "House not made by hands "ETERNAL IN THE HEAVENS"! By the Principles of Freemasonry.
Still Not a Plan of Salvation Seraphim_Serpente?
THE MASON IS CLEARLY TOLD HERE HE IS "PREPARING HIMSELF" (BY THE USE OF THESE MASONIC PRINCIPLES) TO MAKE HIM TO BE "FIT FOR HEAVEN"!
Now listen to the kinds of Masonic Qualities and Precepts and Materials he must Use:
Quote from the Northeast Cornet Lecture:
"And as the "QUALITIES" of a well "TRIED" "TRUE and "TRUSTY" cornerstone: "Are the Squareness of it's Surface" = "Emblemmatic of MORALITY".
It's "Cubical" form = emblematic of "STABILITY".
"INTEGRITY OF CHARACTER", AND "PURITY OF LIFE".
"Purity of Life" Seraphim_Serpente - Still No plan for Salvation?
Masonry goes even further to say :
"In the erection of this "YOUR SPIRITUAL TEMPLE"
"YOU SELECT" YOUR "OWN MATERIALS".
Still Not A Religion Seraphim_Serpente ?
Seraphim_Serpente using "YOUR OWN" materials - Which is to say "Saving your own Soul" in your own selection of the way it will be Saved - By the Manner in which you Save your own Soul? By the "Qualities" of Masonry? and how you of yourself build it?
Notice how Masonry teaches you HOW NOT to erect your "SPIRITUAL TEMPLE"
Quote : (From the Northeast Corner Lecture) =
"If you weave into it's structure - Envy and vice - hatred and Fraud, binding them together with the cement of infidelity. your house will be like the one built upon the sand. When it falls and when it falls as surely it must it will bury you beneath it's ruins and injure the Fraternity which tonight has so honored you".
Masonry goes even further in saying :
The Materials used in King Solomons Temple were Gold, Cedar, Marble and precious Stone:
If indeed you substitute "THE VIRTUES OF THE HEART" - "THE PURE EMOTIONS OF THE SOUL"
"THE WARM AFFECTIONS GUSHING FORTH FROM THE HIDDEN FOUNDATIONS OF THE "SPIRIT".
Seraphim_Serpente the "FOUNDATION" OF A CHRISTIAN IS JESUS CHRIST - Not a Masonic Cornetstone! and not obtained by any "System of Morality" of Freemasonry in the use of any "Dead works" of any Man made system or "Speculation" of any of this worlds system).
Quote ; = "AND YOUR MATERIALS CONSIST OF HONOR" "WISDOM" "JUSTICE AND TRUTH" AND "BROTHERLY LOVE UNITES THE WHOLE" - "YOUR EDIFICE WILL STAND AN HONOR TO YOURSELF AND A PRIDE TO FREEMASONRY" UNTILL TIMES LAST THUNDER SHAKES THE UNIVERSE.
Seraphim_Serpente Honor - wisdom - justice - truth (Not of God) which makes it a lie! will not Save you or any Man)
(And there is no "Brotherly Love" if The so called "Brother" is not Saved by faith in Jesus Christ as his Savior
Quote : "AND THE VERY PRESENCE OF THE GREAT GOD OF THE UNIVERSE OUR FATHER" AND "OUR GOD, "SHALL BE ENSHRINED WITHIN US HIS SHEKINAH WAS IN THE HOLY OF HOLIES IN THAT MATERIAL TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM".
Seraphim_Serpente
the only way that "GOD'S PRESENCE" can dwell in a man is for him to Know Jesus Christ as His Personal Savior.
Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh but in the spirit, if so be that the spirit of God dwell in you. NOW IF ANY MAN HAVE NOT THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST HE IS NONE OF HIS"
Romans 8:14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, THEY ARE THE SONS OF GOD"
Boy like my mom says,"The proof is in the pudding."
Freemasonry
Originally posted by Andy Warhol
The core principle of G.A.O.T.U. is that all roads lead to that great lodge in the sky.
The "core principle" of God? What does that even mean?
Also, I think it's quite obvious to most people that all roads do NOT lead to the "great lodge in the sky". Yours, for example, appears to be a dead end.
Wow what a great comeback, really impressive to say the least.
Regarding the religion of Freemasonry: Freemasons have access to the same writings that we have access to. It is simply a matter of whether they will take the time to read those writings. Henry Wilson Coil, Manly P. Hall, Albert G. Mackey, and other recognized Masonic scholars and authorities, have stated in their writings that Freemasonry is a religion, or have made reference to the religion of Freemasonry. And we find this in a Grand Lodge document:
"Masonry does have three articles of faith: (1) Belief in the existence of a Supreme Being who is not only the Great Architect of the Universe but Creator of all men, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent; (2) Recognition of the brotherhood of man, a natural corollary to the first because if the G.A.O.T.U. is the creator of all men, then the human race is one family; (3) Belief in the immortality of the soul. This is the religion of Masonry." ('Officers Manual of Lodge Organization and Operation' - Grand Lodge of Nevada)
If any member of the Craft will take an honest objective look at the tenets and teachinhgs of Freemasonry regarding salvation and an afterlife; if he will consider the fact that it is Freemasonry's own "god" that is prayed to in lodge, in corporate prayer; if he will realize the fact that the Hiramic Legend is "baptism" into the religion of Freemasonry, he must honestly come to the same conclusions that we have come to, that Freemasonry is a religion. The next question that should come to his mind is: "Is Freemasonry compatible with the Christian faith?" The same evidence tells the honest observer that it is not.
Regarding Lucifer: A former Mason, who left Freemasonry to follow Jesus Christ, is Bill Schnoebelen. Bill has shared in his testimony that at the time he became a Freemason, he was actively involved in a coven - witchcraft; at the time he became a Mason, he believed Lucifer to be God. When he was asked, "In Whom do you put your trust?", His very honest answer was, "In God".
It was an honest answer, because nobody cared who he thought "God" was, as is explained in various Grand Lodge documents, for example:
"Great Architect or Grand or Great Artificer of the Universe (G.A.O.T.U.) are titles under which Freemasonry refers to Deity. A fundamental of Freemasonry is its nonsectarian character. Any man of any religion may offer his devotions to the deity he reveres, under the Masonic title, no matter what name he uses in his mind. Great Architect of the Universe (or any of its variations) is a symbol of Deity as named and worshiped in all religions." ('Officers Manual of Lodge Organization and Operation' - Grand Lodge of Nevada)
Wow
Under such conditions, Freemasonry obviously accepts Lucifer as being at least one of the many "gods", if you will, that are to be found under Freemasonry's "umbrella god", GAOTU.
Regarding phallic symbols: This is discussed in detail in Mackey's book on symbolisms, as well as in other Masonic writings. The origin would be the Ancient Mystery Religions, the same as the origin of Masonry's Hiramic Legend.
Looks like masonry is the real dead end.
Regarding the religion of Freemasonry: Freemasons have access to the same writings that we have access to. It is simply a matter of whether they will take the time to read those writings. Henry Wilson Coil, Manly P. Hall, Albert G. Mackey, and other recognized Masonic scholars and authorities, have stated in their writings that Freemasonry is a religion, or have made reference to the religion of Freemasonry. And we find this in a Grand Lodge document:
"Masonry does have three articles of faith: (1) Belief in the existence of a Supreme Being who is not only the Great Architect of the Universe but Creator of all men, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent; (2) Recognition of the brotherhood of man, a natural corollary to the first because if the G.A.O.T.U. is the creator of all men, then the human race is one family; (3) Belief in the immortality of the soul. This is the religion of Masonry." ('Officers Manual of Lodge Organization and Operation' - Grand Lodge of Nevada)
If any member of the Craft will take an honest objective look at the tenets and teachinhgs of Freemasonry regarding salvation and an afterlife; if he will consider the fact that it is Freemasonry's own "god" that is prayed to in lodge, in corporate prayer; if he will realize the fact that the Hiramic Legend is "baptism" into the religion of Freemasonry, he must honestly come to the same conclusions that we have come to, that Freemasonry is a religion. The next question that should come to his mind is: "Is Freemasonry compatible with the Christian faith?" The same evidence tells the honest observer that it is not.
Regarding Lucifer: A former Mason, who left Freemasonry to follow Jesus Christ, is Bill Schnoebelen. Bill has shared in his testimony that at the time he became a Freemason, he was actively involved in a coven - witchcraft; at the time he became a Mason, he believed Lucifer to be God. When he was asked, "In Whom do you put your trust?", His very honest answer was, "In God".
It was an honest answer, because nobody cared who he thought "God" was, as is explained in various Grand Lodge documents, for example:
"Great Architect or Grand or Great Artificer of the Universe (G.A.O.T.U.) are titles under which Freemasonry refers to Deity. A fundamental of Freemasonry is its nonsectarian character. Any man of any religion may offer his devotions to the deity he reveres, under the Masonic title, no matter what name he uses in his mind. Great Architect of the Universe (or any of its variations) is a symbol of Deity as named and worshiped in all religions." ('Officers Manual of Lodge Organization and Operation' - Grand Lodge of Nevada)
Wow
Under such conditions, Freemasonry obviously accepts Lucifer as being at least one of the many "gods", if you will, that are to be found under Freemasonry's "umbrella god", GAOTU.
Regarding phallic symbols: This is discussed in detail in Mackey's book on symbolisms, as well as in other Masonic writings. The origin would be the Ancient Mystery Religions, the same as the origin of Masonry's Hiramic Legend.
Looks like masonry is the real dead end.
Originally posted by Andy Warhol
Wow what a great comeback, really impressive to say the least.
Stating an obvious fact. After all, you've given nobody a reason so far to want to convert to your bizarre interpretation of religion. In fact, in spite of yourself, you show time and again that it's best to stay as far away from it as possible if one values his own integrity.
[edit on 26-3-2007 by Masonic Light]
Andy- I think what we have here is a misundertanding.
Noone is asking you to join Masonry so no one is trying to put their beliefs on you.
If you think we are silly or misguided or ever wrong then thats fine but no one is forcing this on you at all. You are engaging us in a discussion or rahter taunting us to go along with your fun.
Now on the other hand you are the one sprouting bible versing every two seconds. Sounds liek you are the one trying to convert.
Noone is asking you to join Masonry so no one is trying to put their beliefs on you.
If you think we are silly or misguided or ever wrong then thats fine but no one is forcing this on you at all. You are engaging us in a discussion or rahter taunting us to go along with your fun.
Now on the other hand you are the one sprouting bible versing every two seconds. Sounds liek you are the one trying to convert.
Really impressive to say the least. What's the matter can't defend your little frat.? you once again prove you cannot be intellectually honest.
The past three or four posts corsig and your little band of brothers have done nothing to prove that what was posted is wrong. So go ahead with the duck and run tatics it's really humorous to say the least.
Keep up the good lies about the charity frat. This is better then watching Richards racial rampage on the stage.
The past three or four posts corsig and your little band of brothers have done nothing to prove that what was posted is wrong. So go ahead with the duck and run tatics it's really humorous to say the least.
Keep up the good lies about the charity frat. This is better then watching Richards racial rampage on the stage.
Originally posted by Andy Warhol
Really impressive to say the least. What's the matter can't defend your little frat.? you once again prove you cannot be intellectually honest.
The past three or four posts corsig and your little band of brothers have done nothing to prove that what was posted is wrong. So go ahead with the duck and run tatics it's really humorous to say the least.
Keep up the good lies about the charity frat. This is better then watching Richards racial rampage on the stage.
Actually, everyone has simply been commenting that you keep saying the same thing over and over without actually saying anything. The "frat" needs no "defense"...but we're still waiting on YOU to defend your cult programming.
"Duck and run"? How's that, Andy? People keep responding to your posts, as unproductive as it is. I guess we're all still trying to deny
ignorance, eh...
Freemasonry calls itself a fraternity.
The government certainly doesn't categorise us as a religion.
Wikipedia doesn't either.
Nor does Encyclopaedia Britannica.
The only people who insist that Freemasonry is a religion are fundamentalist Christians who have never once attended a meeting.
Go figure.
Freemasonry calls itself a fraternity.
The government certainly doesn't categorise us as a religion.
Wikipedia doesn't either.
Nor does Encyclopaedia Britannica.
The only people who insist that Freemasonry is a religion are fundamentalist Christians who have never once attended a meeting.
Go figure.
The frat can't defend itself. Your comments and your defense if that's what you call it is, well...
Wikipedia as source is real nice. Real nice to say the least...
Masons on a board trying to defend something they can't. Go figure. I like how you have not tryed to defend your frat with the past 6 comments I have left. Yes typical duck and masonic run.
Don't know that it would do much good. I have tried to engage you on two different occasions, and in both instances, you have back-pedaled. but' I'll give it one more shot and go visiting to the 'Interpretations' thread, just to see if you have changed any:-)
Does Freemasonry engage in prayer(worship) of a God? (Not the True and Living God, mind you, but a symbol that Masonry claims is representative of all gods) Yes
Does Freemasonry teach of an afterlife? Yes
"hope of a glorious immortality"
Does Freemasonry teach salvation by other than acceptance of Jesus Christ? Yes
"purity of life and rectitude of conduct"
Does Freemasonry engage in a regeneration ceremony, which is admittedly intended to symbolize salvation/redemption? Yes
". .the drama of Hiram the Builder is a symbol of redemption - - and redemption is the central theme of this degree. 'Raise from a dead level to a living perpendicular' suggests far more than a physical accomplishment." (GL of Nevada)
"The important part of the degree is to symbolize the great doctrines of the resurrection of the body and the immortality of the soul; and hence it has been remarked by a learned writer of our Order that 'the Master Mason represents a man saved from the grave of iniquity, and raised to the faith of salvation.." (GL of North Carolina)
as you go through the process, when you see that the prayers will be generic, as demanded by the Grand Lodge; when you see that Masonry's plan of salvation is by works, with no mention whatever of acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior; and when you see that the Hiramic Legend is symbolic of death, burial and resurrection(as in baptism)
You fail to realize that there is a difference between silently praying to whichever deity you want, and by leading prayers out loud and referring to the Savior of the World by name, Jesus Christ. Again, let's see how quickly he receives feedback on such a prayer said out loud.
Prayer in lodge rooms does vary in some states. In Maryland a Mason may not offer prayer in lodge in the name of Jesus. I have the Grand Lodge documentation on that. In Alabama, however, things are somewhat different. Consider the following from an official Grand Lodge document:
339. MASONRY AND RELIGION
Masonry has no religious dogma other than that it requires a belief in Deity. Any man, good and true, whether he be Christian, Jew, Mohammedan, Parsee, Buddhist, Brahman or Deist may be admitted to Masonry because all these religions require a belief in Deity.
340 SECTARIANISM - WHAT IS NOT
A Mason offering prayer in the Lodge may pray to his God -- observing his own conception of Deity. It is therefore proper and in accordance with Masonic law and tenants for a Mason who believes in the Christ or Jesus to offer prayer in the lodge in His Name. None should take umbrage because he addresses his prayer to his own conception of Deity. He must use prayer in the Ritual in all ritualistic ceremonies. Any other prayer is out of order in such ceremonies. (Masonic Code of Alabama, p. 141-2, 1963)
Clearly, Alabama Masons are permitted to pray aloud in the name of Buddha, Krishna, Allah, Brahman, Vishnu, etc. during lodge functions when ritual is not being worked. They can even pray in the name of Christ OR Jesus. The statement says that "none should take umbrage." How could someone take umbrage (be offended) unless he knew that the Hindu was actually praying to Brahman or Vishnu? This indicates that the prayers are spoken aloud, or no one would know.
A genuine Christian would not be able to take part in such a prayer - one person, a pagan, offering prayer for all present.
The first sentence under section 339. states, "Masonry has no religious dogma other than that it requires a belief in Deity." Notice that they do not say requires a faith in "A Deity." Deity is singular. Since Freemasonry requires faith in Deity, but allows Buddhists, Hindus, Moslems, Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians to be members, obviously Freemasonry is taking the position that all of these men have a belief in this singular Deity. Therefore, Freemasonry is claiming that all of these gods, along with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are all the same Deity.
The Grand Lodge of Alabama is teaching the Masonic lie that all men worship the same Spirit (God) simply using different names. Freemasonry teaches a confused form of 'monotheism' in which all false gods are claimed to be the same Spirit as the true and living God. The Grand Lodge of Indiana confirms that the sole (admitted) dogma of Freemasonry is monotheism:
The first of the universally recognized Landmarks of Freemasonry states that ‘monotheism is the sole dogma of Freemasonry. Belief in one God is required of every initiate, but his conception of the Supreme Being is left to his own interpretation. Freemasonry is not concerned with theological distinctions. This is the basis of our universality.' (Indiana Mentor's Manual, p. 19.)
When Freemasonry requires faith in Deity (God) and accepts faith in either Vishnu, Allah, or any other false god, or the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as meeting the requirement, Freemasonry redefines God to include not only the true and living God and but also the various false gods. The Masonic god is different in make-up than the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who is defined in Scripture as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Therefore, the God of Freemasonry is a false god. The Scriptures clearly teach that pagans do not worship God. Worship of any spiritual entity other than Father, Son and Holy Spirit is idolatry.
You can call this discussion a dead horse if you want to. But the truth of the matter is that all who continue to ride the Masonic horse, serving the Masonic god, will be spiritually dead for eternity.
Since you seem new to the forum here, please take the time to read through the various posts to familiarize yourself with the issue. Numerous Masonic authors have in fact written on numerous occasions that the institution is in fact a religion, one that "honors" all sectarian religions, and one whose God is a sort of "super god" (GAOTU) that has dominion over the lesser gods like the God of the Bible, the Muslim god Allah, gods of the underworld and of the evil one, and gods of any other religion. This is what Masonic authorities like Pike, Mackey, Coil, Claudy, and others have actually put in print.
So defend the insitution if you like and as others still misguided and deceived here continue to do, but know in your heart, without a doubt, that Freemasonry is in fact a religion, one that is antiChristian, universalist, New Age, pagan worship at its very core.
Each time the Mason sets foot inside the lodge he is inhabiting a place where spirits other than the Holy Spirit reside. This is the bare truth. Each time one such "Christian" Mason sets foot inside another place of worship such as a Christian church, he and others like him bring that very spiritual baggage with them, trying to rationalize the teachings behind Hiram Abiff with the simple salvation message that Jesus Christ, the Lord of lords and the King of kings, died on a cross for the sins of ALL mankind, and rose from the grave by the power of the one true and Almighty God, to bestow upon those who believed in that power, eternal life. As Luke writes in Acts 4:12.
Wikipedia as source is real nice. Real nice to say the least...
Masons on a board trying to defend something they can't. Go figure. I like how you have not tryed to defend your frat with the past 6 comments I have left. Yes typical duck and masonic run.
Don't know that it would do much good. I have tried to engage you on two different occasions, and in both instances, you have back-pedaled. but' I'll give it one more shot and go visiting to the 'Interpretations' thread, just to see if you have changed any:-)
Does Freemasonry engage in prayer(worship) of a God? (Not the True and Living God, mind you, but a symbol that Masonry claims is representative of all gods) Yes
Does Freemasonry teach of an afterlife? Yes
"hope of a glorious immortality"
Does Freemasonry teach salvation by other than acceptance of Jesus Christ? Yes
"purity of life and rectitude of conduct"
Does Freemasonry engage in a regeneration ceremony, which is admittedly intended to symbolize salvation/redemption? Yes
". .the drama of Hiram the Builder is a symbol of redemption - - and redemption is the central theme of this degree. 'Raise from a dead level to a living perpendicular' suggests far more than a physical accomplishment." (GL of Nevada)
"The important part of the degree is to symbolize the great doctrines of the resurrection of the body and the immortality of the soul; and hence it has been remarked by a learned writer of our Order that 'the Master Mason represents a man saved from the grave of iniquity, and raised to the faith of salvation.." (GL of North Carolina)
as you go through the process, when you see that the prayers will be generic, as demanded by the Grand Lodge; when you see that Masonry's plan of salvation is by works, with no mention whatever of acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior; and when you see that the Hiramic Legend is symbolic of death, burial and resurrection(as in baptism)
You fail to realize that there is a difference between silently praying to whichever deity you want, and by leading prayers out loud and referring to the Savior of the World by name, Jesus Christ. Again, let's see how quickly he receives feedback on such a prayer said out loud.
Prayer in lodge rooms does vary in some states. In Maryland a Mason may not offer prayer in lodge in the name of Jesus. I have the Grand Lodge documentation on that. In Alabama, however, things are somewhat different. Consider the following from an official Grand Lodge document:
339. MASONRY AND RELIGION
Masonry has no religious dogma other than that it requires a belief in Deity. Any man, good and true, whether he be Christian, Jew, Mohammedan, Parsee, Buddhist, Brahman or Deist may be admitted to Masonry because all these religions require a belief in Deity.
340 SECTARIANISM - WHAT IS NOT
A Mason offering prayer in the Lodge may pray to his God -- observing his own conception of Deity. It is therefore proper and in accordance with Masonic law and tenants for a Mason who believes in the Christ or Jesus to offer prayer in the lodge in His Name. None should take umbrage because he addresses his prayer to his own conception of Deity. He must use prayer in the Ritual in all ritualistic ceremonies. Any other prayer is out of order in such ceremonies. (Masonic Code of Alabama, p. 141-2, 1963)
Clearly, Alabama Masons are permitted to pray aloud in the name of Buddha, Krishna, Allah, Brahman, Vishnu, etc. during lodge functions when ritual is not being worked. They can even pray in the name of Christ OR Jesus. The statement says that "none should take umbrage." How could someone take umbrage (be offended) unless he knew that the Hindu was actually praying to Brahman or Vishnu? This indicates that the prayers are spoken aloud, or no one would know.
A genuine Christian would not be able to take part in such a prayer - one person, a pagan, offering prayer for all present.
The first sentence under section 339. states, "Masonry has no religious dogma other than that it requires a belief in Deity." Notice that they do not say requires a faith in "A Deity." Deity is singular. Since Freemasonry requires faith in Deity, but allows Buddhists, Hindus, Moslems, Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians to be members, obviously Freemasonry is taking the position that all of these men have a belief in this singular Deity. Therefore, Freemasonry is claiming that all of these gods, along with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are all the same Deity.
The Grand Lodge of Alabama is teaching the Masonic lie that all men worship the same Spirit (God) simply using different names. Freemasonry teaches a confused form of 'monotheism' in which all false gods are claimed to be the same Spirit as the true and living God. The Grand Lodge of Indiana confirms that the sole (admitted) dogma of Freemasonry is monotheism:
The first of the universally recognized Landmarks of Freemasonry states that ‘monotheism is the sole dogma of Freemasonry. Belief in one God is required of every initiate, but his conception of the Supreme Being is left to his own interpretation. Freemasonry is not concerned with theological distinctions. This is the basis of our universality.' (Indiana Mentor's Manual, p. 19.)
When Freemasonry requires faith in Deity (God) and accepts faith in either Vishnu, Allah, or any other false god, or the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as meeting the requirement, Freemasonry redefines God to include not only the true and living God and but also the various false gods. The Masonic god is different in make-up than the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who is defined in Scripture as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Therefore, the God of Freemasonry is a false god. The Scriptures clearly teach that pagans do not worship God. Worship of any spiritual entity other than Father, Son and Holy Spirit is idolatry.
You can call this discussion a dead horse if you want to. But the truth of the matter is that all who continue to ride the Masonic horse, serving the Masonic god, will be spiritually dead for eternity.
Since you seem new to the forum here, please take the time to read through the various posts to familiarize yourself with the issue. Numerous Masonic authors have in fact written on numerous occasions that the institution is in fact a religion, one that "honors" all sectarian religions, and one whose God is a sort of "super god" (GAOTU) that has dominion over the lesser gods like the God of the Bible, the Muslim god Allah, gods of the underworld and of the evil one, and gods of any other religion. This is what Masonic authorities like Pike, Mackey, Coil, Claudy, and others have actually put in print.
So defend the insitution if you like and as others still misguided and deceived here continue to do, but know in your heart, without a doubt, that Freemasonry is in fact a religion, one that is antiChristian, universalist, New Age, pagan worship at its very core.
Each time the Mason sets foot inside the lodge he is inhabiting a place where spirits other than the Holy Spirit reside. This is the bare truth. Each time one such "Christian" Mason sets foot inside another place of worship such as a Christian church, he and others like him bring that very spiritual baggage with them, trying to rationalize the teachings behind Hiram Abiff with the simple salvation message that Jesus Christ, the Lord of lords and the King of kings, died on a cross for the sins of ALL mankind, and rose from the grave by the power of the one true and Almighty God, to bestow upon those who believed in that power, eternal life. As Luke writes in Acts 4:12.
"Our Grand Master, Hiram Abif, was ordered to be interred as near the sanctum sanctorum as the Israelitish laws would permit, in a grave from the
center three feet east, three feet west, three feet between north and south, and five feet or more perpendicular."
Grand Lodges use different methods of hinting that Hiram could not have been possibly reburied. Consider the following from the Grand Lodge of Nebraska:
The Mosaic law which related to defilement by dead bodies, rendered it necessary that none should be buried near sacred places, nor even within the limits of cities, except in the case of kings and very distinguished men. The strictness of the religious code against pollution would, however, forbid that even these should be interred in the neighborhood of a temple or sanctuary. Nebraska Monitor and Ceremonies, 1962, p. 57.
It matters not what size the grave will be if it cannot exist anywhere near the temple.
Numerous Grand Lodges explain that the meaning of the Legend is Resurrection. Another example:
The Hiramic legend is one of the Landmarks of Masonry. Without the story of the Temple builder, our Fraternity would lose its distinctive character. In this quaintly dramatized legend, we find the ultimate lessons of Masonic philosophy--victory over death and the immortality of the soul. In the most dramatic manner, it teaches the fundamentals of life, of death, and of the resurrection.] The Master Mason, booklet number 4, Grand Lodge of Maine, Committee on Masonic Education, p. 3
Freemasonry has been an aggressive move against the Christian faith, virtually since its inception. Whatever claimed Christian tendencies it may have had at the outset, have certainly been stripped from it over the years. Any time any movement serves the purpose of detracting from the True and Living God, or demeaning Him in general, it certainly condemns itself as being against Christianity. What you are seeing more of lately, is the Christian faith attempting to regain ground that has been lost to the syncretistic faith of the lodge.
When one speaks of the teachings of Masonry concerning love, truth, temperance, justice, honor, etc., that constitutes the 99% oat meal that rat poison is made of. Nothing wrong with the 99%. But when Masonry adds it concepts of God and Salvation, requires deliberate omission of Jesus Christ in prayers for fear of hurting the feelings of pagans - and causes men who call themselves Christians to buy into such heresy - that constitutes the 1% that will kill; and Satan's formula has served its purpose.
You might want to look for something a little more reliable than the source you mentioned Roark. My understanding is that virtually anybody can log onto Wikipedia and edit any article they wish to edit. Reliability loses something in the process.
You might want to consider the writings of somebody a little closer to the truth of the matter. Albert G. Mackey, for instance, who wrote, "Freemasonry then, is a religious institution; and on this ground mainly, if not alone, should the religious Mason defend it.", or words to that effect. I have paraphrased because I don't have the source document at my fingertips, and am a little rushed at the moment. However, it is in his encyclopedia if you want to check it out for yourself.
The only conflict Masonry is concerned about is the fact that its religious teachings are incompatible with the teachings of the Christian faith. It doesn't want the competition. Further, we're not talking about football games. We are talking about Freemasonry. Perhaps you do not recognize there being a difference, but most of the readers here do.
We truly believe that the will of Almighty God is that we please Him. We do not believe it pleases God to deliberate omit His name from lodge prayers, or any other prayers for that matter, even whatever prayers might be given at a football game, if indeed there are such prayers.
Most churches that I am aware of have men's ministries. If you are unaware that one exists in your church, maybe you should ask your pastor about it??
Nothing wrong with works outside the lodge room. It's the heresy taught inside the lodge room that we take issue with.
Mackey is deemed to be a Masonic Scholar. Check it out at the website of the GL of South Carolina.
We often refer to the writings of Grand Lodges - not because we accept what they have to say, per se, but because we want to show people the errors in what they say. Example:
We do not believe one's salvation is attainable by any way other than acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. So, when we quote the symbolism of the lambskin apron, it is for the purpose of showing Masonic teachings and/or opinions to be in error.
Same thing when people try to claim Masonry is not a religion. We look at what it does in ritual, and what it teaches in its writings, and it is plain to see that Masonry has its own version of a god that it prays to, has its own version of salvific teachings that it promotes, and even engages in its own sort of baptism ceremony.
Masonry is a religion.
You were presented a Lambskin or white leathern apron. The lamb has in all ages been deemed an emblem of innocence. By the lambskin, therefore, the Mason is reminded of that purity of life and conduct which is essential to his gaining admission to the Celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides." ('Kentucky Monitor')
There is no lesson of morality here at all,Quite clearly, it is a salvific teaching. It is not telling the initiate what he should do to live a life of morality. It is telling him what it says "is essential to his gaining admission to the Celestial Lodge above, . ."
I believe if you will look at it more closely, you will see that is exactly what it is telling you. Whereas, the Bible tells us - in fact, it is Jesus Christ Himself who tells us - "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father but by Me." John 14:6.
Grand Lodges use different methods of hinting that Hiram could not have been possibly reburied. Consider the following from the Grand Lodge of Nebraska:
The Mosaic law which related to defilement by dead bodies, rendered it necessary that none should be buried near sacred places, nor even within the limits of cities, except in the case of kings and very distinguished men. The strictness of the religious code against pollution would, however, forbid that even these should be interred in the neighborhood of a temple or sanctuary. Nebraska Monitor and Ceremonies, 1962, p. 57.
It matters not what size the grave will be if it cannot exist anywhere near the temple.
Numerous Grand Lodges explain that the meaning of the Legend is Resurrection. Another example:
The Hiramic legend is one of the Landmarks of Masonry. Without the story of the Temple builder, our Fraternity would lose its distinctive character. In this quaintly dramatized legend, we find the ultimate lessons of Masonic philosophy--victory over death and the immortality of the soul. In the most dramatic manner, it teaches the fundamentals of life, of death, and of the resurrection.] The Master Mason, booklet number 4, Grand Lodge of Maine, Committee on Masonic Education, p. 3
Freemasonry has been an aggressive move against the Christian faith, virtually since its inception. Whatever claimed Christian tendencies it may have had at the outset, have certainly been stripped from it over the years. Any time any movement serves the purpose of detracting from the True and Living God, or demeaning Him in general, it certainly condemns itself as being against Christianity. What you are seeing more of lately, is the Christian faith attempting to regain ground that has been lost to the syncretistic faith of the lodge.
When one speaks of the teachings of Masonry concerning love, truth, temperance, justice, honor, etc., that constitutes the 99% oat meal that rat poison is made of. Nothing wrong with the 99%. But when Masonry adds it concepts of God and Salvation, requires deliberate omission of Jesus Christ in prayers for fear of hurting the feelings of pagans - and causes men who call themselves Christians to buy into such heresy - that constitutes the 1% that will kill; and Satan's formula has served its purpose.
You might want to look for something a little more reliable than the source you mentioned Roark. My understanding is that virtually anybody can log onto Wikipedia and edit any article they wish to edit. Reliability loses something in the process.
You might want to consider the writings of somebody a little closer to the truth of the matter. Albert G. Mackey, for instance, who wrote, "Freemasonry then, is a religious institution; and on this ground mainly, if not alone, should the religious Mason defend it.", or words to that effect. I have paraphrased because I don't have the source document at my fingertips, and am a little rushed at the moment. However, it is in his encyclopedia if you want to check it out for yourself.
The only conflict Masonry is concerned about is the fact that its religious teachings are incompatible with the teachings of the Christian faith. It doesn't want the competition. Further, we're not talking about football games. We are talking about Freemasonry. Perhaps you do not recognize there being a difference, but most of the readers here do.
We truly believe that the will of Almighty God is that we please Him. We do not believe it pleases God to deliberate omit His name from lodge prayers, or any other prayers for that matter, even whatever prayers might be given at a football game, if indeed there are such prayers.
Most churches that I am aware of have men's ministries. If you are unaware that one exists in your church, maybe you should ask your pastor about it??
Nothing wrong with works outside the lodge room. It's the heresy taught inside the lodge room that we take issue with.
Mackey is deemed to be a Masonic Scholar. Check it out at the website of the GL of South Carolina.
We often refer to the writings of Grand Lodges - not because we accept what they have to say, per se, but because we want to show people the errors in what they say. Example:
We do not believe one's salvation is attainable by any way other than acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. So, when we quote the symbolism of the lambskin apron, it is for the purpose of showing Masonic teachings and/or opinions to be in error.
Same thing when people try to claim Masonry is not a religion. We look at what it does in ritual, and what it teaches in its writings, and it is plain to see that Masonry has its own version of a god that it prays to, has its own version of salvific teachings that it promotes, and even engages in its own sort of baptism ceremony.
Masonry is a religion.
You were presented a Lambskin or white leathern apron. The lamb has in all ages been deemed an emblem of innocence. By the lambskin, therefore, the Mason is reminded of that purity of life and conduct which is essential to his gaining admission to the Celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides." ('Kentucky Monitor')
There is no lesson of morality here at all,Quite clearly, it is a salvific teaching. It is not telling the initiate what he should do to live a life of morality. It is telling him what it says "is essential to his gaining admission to the Celestial Lodge above, . ."
I believe if you will look at it more closely, you will see that is exactly what it is telling you. Whereas, the Bible tells us - in fact, it is Jesus Christ Himself who tells us - "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father but by Me." John 14:6.
Originally posted by Andy Warhol
Does Freemasonry engage in prayer(worship) of a God? (Not the True and Living God, mind you, but a symbol that Masonry claims is representative of all gods) Yes
A God? No. The point being that good men of whatever creed and faith will share virtually the same post-death expectations, ergo the same will be expected of them in life. And it goes without saying that you're trying to eliminate all those whose exact beliefs don't coincide with yours as being somehow lesser mortals. Therein lies the path to needless conflicts.
Originally posted by Andy WarholDoes Freemasonry teach of an afterlife? Yes
"hope of a glorious immortality"
Fancy that! Religions teaching about a spiritual life after corporal life. There's something uniquely Christian, eh?
Originally posted by Andy WarholDoes Freemasonry teach salvation by other than acceptance of Jesus Christ? Yes
"purity of life and rectitude of conduct"
Masonry doesn't speak about salvation per se. Purity and salvation aren't the same thing (or had that eluded you?).
Originally posted by Andy WarholDoes Freemasonry engage in a regeneration ceremony, which is admittedly intended to symbolize salvation/redemption? Yes
Uh.....no. Obviously speaking as one who knows nothing of the 3rd degree, you're extrapolating some tidbit as being emblematic of the Crucifiction and you're way off the mark whether you care to admit it or not. Hiram baby's just plain dead in the degree. Hate to burst your bubble.
Originally posted by Andy WarholYou fail to realize that there is a difference between silently praying to whichever deity you want, and by leading prayers out loud and referring to the Savior of the World by name, Jesus Christ. Again, let's see how quickly he receives feedback on such a prayer said out loud.
Well fancy that; treating a religious person as a worthy. Whodda thunk it
Originally posted by Andy Warhol
The Grand Lodge of Alabama is teaching the Masonic lie that all men worship the same Spirit (God) simply using different names.
I hate to break it to you but those of the same faith but of different tongues refer to God by different words; ie. God in French is Dieu. Yet by your definition, the French would be unholy. The Almighty is aware of the goings-on of a man's heart. He is wise enough to recognise that his name is pronounce differently in different languages.
You obviously believe that your words and your understanding of the Almighty are the only ones that matter. That, my friend, is called Pride, last I checked, one of the Deadly Sins.
Originally posted by Andy Warhol
When Freemasonry requires faith in Deity (God) and accepts faith in either Vishnu, Allah, or any other false god
OK, kid, I'm calling you out:
You say Vishnu or Allah are "false gods". Prove it.
Here's your big chance to prove beyond any doubt that your imaginary friend can beat up Gandhi's and Abdullah's.
We're waiting.........
I'm not really defending anything, Andy, just stating the facts as I (personally) know them. I don't see this as spiritual warfare or anything, as
I imagine you do.
I've been to church. I've been to a synagogue. The goings-on in a Lodge resemble neither, apart from the odd hymn. You can take the altar, the Volume of the Sacred Law, snippets and quotes, and the references to God and moral development and SAY that Freemasonry is a religion, but it won't make it so, no matter how hard you try. But keep repeating your tired mantras to yourself if it floats your boat.
This thread is a dead horse? You bet it is, because it is based on a presupposition of yours (based on stuff you've read) about our fraternity, which we disagree with (based on our attendance at Lodge). There's not really any room to move in this regard.
Your confusion about the Great Architect of the Universe is clear. You can't seem to grasp that we merely collectively recognise and revere the Creator of the universe. BEYOND the "added" human trappings of name, doctrine, and policy. It's a simple respect for the Creator of All Things, and the giver of all Life.
I don't really care who you think is a "false" god and who isn't. In Lodge, we are only ever talking about the Creator who is, believe it or not, the same God that you think you are honouring by engaging in this bizarre campaign. The Creator. That's all. Ciao.
I've been to church. I've been to a synagogue. The goings-on in a Lodge resemble neither, apart from the odd hymn. You can take the altar, the Volume of the Sacred Law, snippets and quotes, and the references to God and moral development and SAY that Freemasonry is a religion, but it won't make it so, no matter how hard you try. But keep repeating your tired mantras to yourself if it floats your boat.
This thread is a dead horse? You bet it is, because it is based on a presupposition of yours (based on stuff you've read) about our fraternity, which we disagree with (based on our attendance at Lodge). There's not really any room to move in this regard.
Your confusion about the Great Architect of the Universe is clear. You can't seem to grasp that we merely collectively recognise and revere the Creator of the universe. BEYOND the "added" human trappings of name, doctrine, and policy. It's a simple respect for the Creator of All Things, and the giver of all Life.
I don't really care who you think is a "false" god and who isn't. In Lodge, we are only ever talking about the Creator who is, believe it or not, the same God that you think you are honouring by engaging in this bizarre campaign. The Creator. That's all. Ciao.
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