50+ People Dead in Israeli Air Strike on Apartment House.

Think through Hezbollah's ideology and put yourself in Israel's shoes. Hezbollah's leader and secretary general has made the following statements:

- "if they all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide"
- [speaking of Jews] "they are a cancer which is liable to spread again at any moment"
- "There is no solution to the conflict in this region except with the disappearance of Israel."

Consider Hezbollah's official statement regarding their conflict with Israel:

- "It is an open war until the elimination of Israel and until the death of the last Jew on earth"
en.wikipedia.org...

Now consider that Hezbollah has hundreds of long-range missles pointed directly at Israel. How would any sane coutry respond when provocated and threatened by individuals like this? Any country with a brain would eliminate the threat completely (the purpose of war is to win, not to even the odds). Besides it's not Israel's fault that Islamic countries intentionally use human shields so often (for propoganda purposes).

If everyone is so concerned about civilian casualties all of the sudden, then where was the media during the 90s when 800,000 were slaughtered in Rwanda from direct genocide?
-

Originally posted by papias256

If everyone is so concerned about civilian casualties all of the sudden, then where was the media during the 90s when 800,000 were slaughtered in Rwanda from direct genocide?
-

Point off subject....The UN security chief in Rawanda during the slaughter was.........

Drum roll.................

Kofi..........

More off point How about the Suddan?

Originally posted by thermopolis
Let me help here.........Israel GOOD.........Terrorist BAD.

Put yourself in the shoes of other people. You live there, you don't agree with Hez. You're trying to do the best with your life as you can. Hez fire rockets from the area you live one day and then Israel bombs that place. This kills your wife, mother, brother, any one of great importance to you.

They are then both as evil to you as the next person. However, you understand that Hez has driven off at this point. Israel has the planes flying over, the lazer guided missiles, the satelites and so on and so fourth. Yet still they attack when Hez are not there.

All of a sudden, Israel are evil and Hez are just as evil. To many people in the conflict, they don't want Hez. However, they can't get rid of them but they sure as hell don't desire to be killed by Israel because they live near them.

Originally posted by Odium

Originally posted by thermopolis
Let me help here.........Israel GOOD.........Terrorist BAD.

Put yourself in the shoes of other people. You live there, you don't agree with Hez. You're trying to do the best with your life as you can. Hez fire rockets from the area you live one day and then Israel bombs that place. This kills your wife, mother, brother, any one of great importance to you.

They are then both as evil to you as the next person. However, you understand that Hez has driven off at this point. Israel has the planes flying over, the lazer guided missiles, the satelites and so on and so fourth. Yet still they attack when Hez are not there.

All of a sudden, Israel are evil and Hez are just as evil. To many people in the conflict, they don't want Hez. However, they can't get rid of them but they sure as hell don't desire to be killed by Israel because they live near them.

Here we go again.........equal morality...........

Just like someone who gets hurt in a police "car chase" and sues the police. It is the bad guys fault for all injuries.

If Hezzy fires rockets from next to my house at Israel I would think I would run away.................unless I was helping hide the rockets or feeding the troops.......

One more time..............Black vs White.......no gray here................

Originally posted by thermopolis
Here we go again.........equal morality...........

Just like someone who gets hurt in a police "car chase" and sues the police. It is the bad guys fault for all injuries.

Why is it directly his fault? How do you know the Police were not also negligent in their actions?

Originally posted by thermopolis
If Hezzy fires rockets from next to my house at Israel I would think I would run away.................unless I was helping hide the rockets or feeding the troops.......

How are they meant to leave? You can sit there and pretend all you like they can, but there are a few slight problems:
Bridges blown up.
Cars bembed for being on the road. [In case they're transporting bombs]
They might not have any transport.
You can go on and on.

Originally posted by thermopolis
One more time..............Black vs White.......no gray here................

Maybe you should stop painting it as black and white then? If they're there, it is their own fault? Come on, grow up. Many of these nations are not overly developed, they now don't have public transport, some of them are old and unable to move, etc, etc.

Originally posted by thermopolis

Originally posted by grover
The problem with that argument thermo is that it is crude and simplistic. Ask a peasant in the south of Lebanon who is being bombed out who is good and evil. You will I am sure get a different black and white.

Again you decieve yourself. That "peasant" in southern Lebanon is supporting Hezbollah. Life is Black and White, you simply choose to make it Gray................

Stop trying to feed your own ego and sense of superemacy by making simple things complicated. This is a war of good vs evil. Good has gotten tired of evil and decided to fight back for a change.

Let me help you once more.............Israel GOOD.........terroist evil.

See..............Black and White.........simple..............no gray area..........

You are a fool if you actually believe that. There was just an article on NPR about a Christian village in southern Lebanon that has been isolated for 2 weeks now....their bishop finally made it in to see how they were doing and an elderly woman stated that hezbollah came by last night and fired missiles at Israel from the hill behind their house, they never asked if they could and who were we to stop them. She went on to say that they were put at risk because the Israelis didn't care if the missiles came from long gone mobil launchers or not, they bombed anyway.

So let me make it simple for you...Hezbollah came by fired missiles and left, Israel bombed regardless of whether Hezbollah was still there or not. Hezbollah is Shia Muslim, the villagers were Christian...are you saying they support Hezbollah? Somehow I doubt it.

Black and white are great as kitchen tiles... but are a poor guide for human interactions.

Originally posted by grover
So let me make it simple for you...Hezbollah came by fired missiles and left, Israel bombed regardless of whether Hezbollah was still there or not. Hezbollah is Shia Muslim, the villagers were Christian...are you saying they support Hezbollah? Somehow I doubt it.

Black and white are great as kitchen tiles... but are a poor guide for human interactions.

So based on a single radio report you make the confict gray? In fact you make my point. Hezzy as typical cowards use women and children as shields and YOU expect Israel to not fire at them............

Originally posted by thermopolis

Originally posted by grover
So let me make it simple for you...Hezbollah came by fired missiles and left, Israel bombed regardless of whether Hezbollah was still there or not. Hezbollah is Shia Muslim, the villagers were Christian...are you saying they support Hezbollah? Somehow I doubt it.

Black and white are great as kitchen tiles... but are a poor guide for human interactions.

So based on a single radio report you make the confict gray? In fact you make my point. Hezzy as typical cowards use women and children as shields and YOU expect Israel to not fire at them............

Nope, have NO problem with them firing on Hez. Have a BIG problem with them firing on innocents. BTW, how would you feel if Israel had fired on this Christian woman? You're a Christian right?

Amen intrepid. That is the very point I have been trying to make all along but some people seem to be more interested in devisiveness.

Originally posted by intrepid


Nope, have NO problem with them firing on Hez. Have a BIG problem with them firing on innocents. BTW, how would you feel if Israel had fired on this Christian woman? You're a Christian right?

Your logic is flawed. Israel is not targeting civilians. Hezzy is targeting anything inside Israel. Rockets packed with "buckshot" that are so inaccurate they are lucky to hit the ground. Terrorizing anyone within reach. When Israel does not surgically "laser" hezbollah, they get called "equal". Big difference.

I also do not accept the issue that just because someone says she is christian that see actually is telling the truth.

Lying to infidels is not only allowed it is embraced.

Islam does not require honesty..........nor protection of the innocent, especialy Jews and infidels.


[edit on 1-8-2006 by thermopolis]

pathetic, really honestly pathetic.

No one has said that Israel is targeting civilians, they are just not being especially careful.

It seems to me that there are some people who just don't want to understand. The whole situition from all sides is screwed up.

Originally posted by thermopolis
I also do not accept the issue that just because someone says she is christian that see actually is telling the truth.

Lying to infidels is not only allowed it is embraced.

Quotes please.

Originally posted by thermopolis
Islam does not require honesty..........nor protection of the innocent, especialy Jews and infidels.

Again, I'd like quotes.

Just so you're aware, I know some Arabic. So if you do use one of the false Qu'ran translations that are out there or mis-quotations, I will hammer you for it like I have everyone else on the site. :-)

These radical groups (terrorists) like Ham-ass, Hezbubble; Al Queda et al, think that their death will please Allah. It is not our place to judge them, we can only do our best to arrange the meeting.

Originally posted by grover
...Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Ya know I take that seriously, and I don't even call myself a Christian.

What part of that don't those of you who scream for blood not understand?

It says to turn the other cheek, not let them beat the crap out of you. There's a huge difference between letting someone "smite" you twice, and letting them kill you. Remember, in the very same book that you quote from, the very same God tells the Jews to go exterminate groups of people. If we are to follow the truth of one statement, we must follow it all. Best not to turn this into a Biblical discussion though.

As for being for war, I'm never FOR it. I just think that this conflict isn't going to stop with diplomacy. There comes a time in every situation where talking will no longer work, and that time has arrived and long passed with this one. They need to FINISH this.

TheBorg

Hey Grover, where are you from ?
You seem to know alot about the middle east....

Hezbollah came by fired missiles and left, Israel bombed regardless of whether Hezbollah was still there or not

Guess I was half right, but um...
One would think that the people would learn to run like hell after a missle has
been fired from there house. Only way I see it is the hasbluckmyself killed people
inside the buildings before they fired a missle from it.

I have a question:
Are those people that live in that area there for a reason ? Could they not have evacuated like lots of others ? Or are they just so poor they can not leave...even
though they waived the ferry charge to cypurs ?

[edit on 2-8-2006 by imbalanced]

Originally posted by imbalanced
I have a question:
Are those people that live in that area there for a reason ? Could they not have evacuated like lots of others ? Or are they just so poor they can not leave...even
though they waived the ferry charge to cypurs ?

[edit on 2-8-2006 by imbalanced]

Well, the simple truth is, everyone of them have legs, and I seriously doubt that all of the Southern Lebanese population is composed of paralyzed civilians. I don't know why they can't just walk out of the area. Their unwillingness to leave is quite understandable, but at the same time, quite stupid. They had plenty of warning before the bombs started falling all around them to get out of the way, yet they did nothing.

I'm sorry, but that logic doesn't work in the real world. If a MACK truck is running out of control straight for me, and someone tells me to jump out of the way and I don't, and I get killed by said runaway truck, whose fault is it? MACK's? No, it's mine. Why you ask? Well, I was told that a truck was running straight for me, yet I did nothing. It's called being ignorant of the obvious dangers. I don't know how they could POSSIBLY be ignorant of them, but it appears that they are.

I see it this way, if they want to die, that's their choice. Just stop complaining about it when it happens, and please stop blaming Israel for killing the people. They stayed there of their own volition, knowing that they could very well die. They made that choice, and now it's time for them to live with it.

Ok, I think I'm done ranting... for now...

TheBorg

Like I said on another similar thread, the city should be evacuated and Israel should do a Fallujah style approach.

Everyone left in the city is there to fight. That way there will be no more civilian casualties. The people could be screened on the way out and when the war is over, screened on the way in again.

It would be crap to leave your home but its better than being blown up in it.

Israel says they might stop when their soldiers are released but what is Hez has killed them and they have no choice but to fight?

Originally posted by zappafan1
These radical groups (terrorists) like Ham-ass, Hezbubble; Al Queda et al, think that their death will please Allah. It is not our place to judge them, we can only do our best to arrange the meeting.

I'm still waiting for you to show lists of the groups which have been beaten by the policy you use. :-) Come on, Zappafan1.

I think the soldiers are already dead. That's why they haven't been returned. I believe they were killed the day they were captured. Hell, I think they were killed on the spot, and everyone else just said that they were alive, to use em as a bargaining chip. Looks like that plan didn't pay off. Too stinking bad I guess, for Hezbollah anyway.

TheBorg