50+ People Dead in Israeli Air Strike on Apartment House.

An Israeli missile strike hit an apartment house in Southern Lebanon today that housed dozens of refugees in its basement, at least 54, 34 of them children have been killed. The Prime Minister or Lebanon told Condoleezza Rice, the U.S. Sec. of State to go away putting a chill on an already cool peace effort.



So Israel told the people of the village where this attack happened to leave. Villagers, peasents, generally do not leave their holdings...after all what they have is their life. This is true of peasents worldwide so the fact that they did not leave does not surprise me. But when Israel says that they told them to leave, do they really think that they are absolved?

Look at the totals dead...750 Lebanonese dead vs 51 Israeli and people claim that Israel is restrained or are really concerned about civilian dead? The tallies tell the exact opposite.

Rice and Bush have their heads stuck up where the sun don't shine if they actually think their tepid and half hearted efforts are doing anything in the middle-east except fueling even more hatred for Israel and deep resentment for the U.S. But then what do you expect...they believe their own propaganda.

Related News Links:
news.bbc.co.uk

[edit on 30-7-2006 by UM_Gazz]

Edit: Fixed title.

[edit on 30-7-2006 by intrepid]

The silence of the apologists on this site is telling. How can you justify such callus slaughter?

Oh....well we told them to leave. BFD!!!

There is rioting in Beruit over this strike and the UN headquarters have been stormed.

The ignorance of this administration and the cold blooded Israeli one is truly appalling. All Rice can do is mouth empty words and then refuse to consider a cease fire. These people have no hearts, no soul. A pox upon their houses.

No amount of spin can change the numbers, over 750 men, women and children, Lebonanese civilians, non-combatants killed to 51 Israeli.

The seeds of war yield no good crop. Hezbullah may be bad, but the Israeli are not the good guys either. Once many years ago... perhaps they had the worlds sympthy and good will but they have wasted that capital.

Can You Spell GENOCIDE?

Wikipedia

Genocide is defined by the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (CPPCG) Article 2 as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such: Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; and forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

Sickening.

ALL HAIL ISRAEL!

SIEG!

I just heard Bush trying to sound mournful over the deaths...sound is the key word here, He couldn't even get the words out properly...it was as if he had to force himself to sound concerned. The world is burning, must be time for his August vacation in Crawford.

"Despite grovers's hysteric rhetoric about Israel wanting to destroy the all Lebanese civilians, its bullhooey."

I wonder why is it that grover never gets "angry" when Hizbollah attacks and kills Israli civilians on purpose. It is known by now that Hizbollah builds headquaters, and safe houses around innocent people just to blame Israel after they are attacked, yet people like grover don't take this fact in consideration, I guess people like him believe that Israel should just take those attacks made by Hizbollah and be quiet about it...

Innocent people die in conflicts, that is a fact, but claiming that a country which is being attacked should just stop their military responses and continue taking the attacks directed at them shows 1. total disregard for the lives of Israeli civilians, 2. shows hatred towards one group of people, Jewish people.

I didn't say they were trying to destroy all Lebanese civilians so don't go putting words into my mouth.

If you would read what I have said here and other places you will note (actually you wouldn't since you only listen to yourself) that I have condemned the whole damned thing, from both sides.

Still the figures speak for themselves 750+ to 51 or so. That is so one sided I can't believe even you would justify such slaughter. If Israel had such high regard for the innocent bystanders, they would know exactly what they were striking first.

Oh so innocent people die in conflicts make it alright huh?

I do not hate the Jewish people so don't even try and play that card on me buddy.

I think you're way off base - getting angry when the IDF kills 30+ children is not anti-semitism.

Israel can put a stop to the rocket attacks by giving back the land they took. They know that. If they return the spoils, and still find themselves under attack, there would be very little anyone could say about their inevitable swift and brutal retaliation.

That's my opinion in a nutshell.

When someone commits a crime in America, the police don't drop ordinance and reduce the entire neighborhood to rubble in an effort to bring the troublemaker to justice.

Originally posted by Muaddib
I wonder why is it that grover never gets "angry" when Hizbollah attacks and kills Israli civilians on purpose.

Excuse me mister-Know-it-All - but, Hizb'Allah does not have Precsion Guided Ammunition, nor do they have Airplanes to deliver them, nor do they have Satellites to see the targets, nor do they have laser-guided-depleted-uranium-half-ton-bombs, nor do they have television-guided-maverick-missiles, nor do they have satellite-guided-bunker-buster-bombs - they have Katyusha rockets, which Russkies used in WW2 which are pretty much IN-accurate.

So comparing that to the Precision guided ammunition that Israeli use is a complete and utter idiocy. If IAF wanted to level that house, they did it on PURPOSE - not because they MISSED. You can hardly miss with all these Superior Military Technology (sold to them ofcourse by the Wonderful US of A) so you can not use this pathetic Excuse here.

And with all the Satellites and Technology and Precision guided bombs - they are STILL killing Civilians.

So - DID They MISS?

Or did they HIT that building on Purpose to kill 50+ civilians?

Hmmmmmmmmmm...

Probably one of those stories as with the UN post being hit.

Hizb'Allah Terrorists Were Hiding There!

Flawed and Pathetic Logic you use.

OH - does anybody know what happened to that Private Gilad?

Or to those "Kidnapped" IDF Soldiers?

Hmmmmmmmmm...

I guess nobody cares anymore.

FIRE AT WILL!

SIR YES SIR!

Oh boy Souljah is here now to protect his insurgent/terrorists brothers/sisters at arms in the middle east...

I guess he must have some "insider information" that Israel wanted to kill only Lebanese civilians... i mean we all know how much Israel hates Lebanese civilians right?...

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
.........
Israel can put a stop to the rocket attacks by giving back the land they took. They know that. If they return the spoils, and still find themselves under attack, there would be very little anyone could say about their inevitable swift and brutal retaliation.

That's my opinion in a nutshell.

Oh, i see, so you think that Isrel should return the land they got after they won in the 6th day war when their ships were blocked from the straits of Tiran in 1967?...

So why don't the Islamic nations give the land back they got after fighting the many ethnic groups that still live in the Middle East?.... or is Israel the only one that should return any land they won in battle?....

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
When someone commits a crime in America, the police don't drop ordinance and reduce the entire neighborhood to rubble in an effort to bring the troublemaker to justice.

What in the world does that have anything to do with what is happening in the Middle East?.... Don't take it personal but your analogy is really out there...

[edit on 30-7-2006 by Muaddib]

I think that if Israel wants peace, it would behoove them to return the land. It's not a moral issue from where I stand, it's a practical issue. They're not going to stop the rockets by dropping ordinance. They might stop the rockets by giving back the land.

As far as my analogy, I stand by it. If Israel is interested in stopping the rockets they could embark on a limited police action, detaining and prosecuting the offenders individually.

But that's too much trouble for them, they would rather just lob a bunch of expensive ordinance and kill a bunch of innocent civilians.

But guess what? The rocket barrage hasn't stopped, it hasn't even slowed. The Israeli populace had better get smart, and realize what their leaders are doing. Same goes for us, BTW.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
I think that if Israel wants peace, it would behoove them to return the land. It's not a moral issue from where I stand, it's a practical issue. They're not going to stop the rockets by dropping ordinance. They might stop the rockets by giving back the land.

WyrdeOne, Israel gave back part of Gaza, and what did the terrorists do? they moved in closer to Israeli cities and began bombing Israel closer than before... The rockets are not going to stop nomatter how much land Israel gives. Hizbollah, and other people want Israel to cease to exist.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
As far as my analogy, I stand by it. If Israel is interested in stopping the rockets they could embark on a limited police action, detaining and prosecuting the offenders individually.

You can't seriously proclaim that "because authorities in the U.S. do not bomb a neighborhood where they know there is a criminal" that this is in any way similar to what is happening in the Middle East.... That is not really a good analogy as to what is happening over there, and one thing has nothing to do with the other... Israel is getting bombed, and terrorists from Hizbollah and other terrorist cells attack Israeli civilians in almost a daily basis...

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
But that's too much trouble for them, they would rather just lob a bunch of expensive ordinance and kill a bunch of innocent civilians.

How do you know for certain they were just a bunch of innocent civilians? Have they released the names of the people killed?

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
But guess what? The rocket barrage hasn't stopped, it hasn't even slowed. The Israeli populace had better get smart, and realize what their leaders are doing. Same goes for us, BTW.

Have you forgotten already what happened after Israel gave Gaza back?..., or does this not count?

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
I think that if Israel wants peace, it would behoove them to return the land. It's not a moral issue from where I stand, it's a practical issue. They're not going to stop the rockets by dropping ordinance. They might stop the rockets by giving back the land.

As far as my analogy, I stand by it. If Israel is interested in stopping the rockets they could embark on a limited police action, detaining and prosecuting the offenders individually.

First point, Wyrde...returning the land to the Palestinians sure did work, didn't it? It stopped all the rockets, attempted suicide bombings, cleaned up their government, didn't it?

And secondly, what do you mean by 'limited police action'? You're dealing wtih a paramilitary enemy dug in next to civillian targets deliberately. So, I'm really not seeing much of an opportunity for a police action, especially since the Lebanese governemnt never really was interested in stopping Hezbollah until it brought some hardcore harm to their citizens.

DE

Part of Gaza? Like, I'm squatting in your house, but you can have the living room back. It's a trial period, mind you, to see if you're capable of restraining yourself sufficiently, then I might give the rest back.

And yes, it would be VERY difficult to execute a limited police action in the S. of Lebanon. I fully understand that, and I suggested it merely as a possible alternative that would not involve blowing up buildings full of children.

As far as knowing they were innocent..I don't. It's possible that every bit of news I see is manufactured under studio conditions. I'm basing my understanding of the situation on all available information. Have you got some more information that I don't? What leads you to believe that there were no children killed? Or, alternately, what leads you to believe that children were killed, but that they were guilty of some crime and, as a result, deserving of the death penalty administered by high explosives?

I also realize that the guerillas likely knew what would happen when they took up their firing position. Regardless, they aren't the ones blowing up the buildings (as far as we know). They're simply leading the IDF around by the nose, and capitalizing on the PR. Every dead child on the nightly news aids their cause, and brings Israel one step closer to destruction. To their mind, that saves a whole lot more kids than were in that building. You have to know that! You may not agree with the logic of these people, but there's no getting around the fact that you MUST make an effort to understand it.

DE, it's my understanding that Israel has never returned the full package, only bits of it at a time. The 2002 accord backed by Egypt calls for the immediate return of ALL land captured during the 6 day beatdown, in exchange for a cease-fire, does it not? The Arab nations have agreed to those conditions, right?

What's the alternative? Pitch, to me, an alternative besides peace. Help me understand why you think Israel should keep blowing up buildings full of children. How does it help them in the least?

Originally posted by Muaddib

I wonder why is it that grover never gets "angry" when Hizbollah attacks and kills Israli civilians on purpose. It is known by now that Hizbollah builds headquaters, and safe houses around innocent people just to blame Israel after they are attacked, yet people like grover don't take this fact in consideration, I guess people like him believe that Israel should just take those attacks made by Hizbollah and be quiet about it...

Innocent people die in conflicts, that is a fact, but claiming that a country which is being attacked should just stop their military responses and continue taking the attacks directed at them shows 1. total disregard for the lives of Israeli civilians, 2. shows hatred towards one group of people, Jewish people.

It is pretty amazing how many times you can read about Lebanese victims, and Israeli attacks on "innocent" civilians, and Israeli unfairness in general and not hear a word about any more suicide bombers in Israeli marketplaces, buses, schools, and so on, nor how the Israeli people have put up with them for so long without doing as they are now.

Either the media is getting ever more unbalanced against Israel or I'm spending way too much time on this forum.

I hope who ever murdered these innocents is one day brought to meaningful juctice... or short of that... dies as a direct result of their own handiwork... as ye sow so shall ye... State terror is as wrong as any other.

Instead of sowing the seeds of their own destruction all sides should prove how "big" they are and comprimise. Quite frankly, these leaders are punks and thugs, criminally incompetent punks and thugs without a plan that'll insure any peace let alone a lasting and just peace... crap nowadays even "bangers" wired on dope have more sophisticated diplomatic skills when settling turf arrangements.

This mass-psychotic episode in the M-E is 2 weeks on and all have been on edge - adrenalin and cortisol OD's... The white-hairs will be droppin' like dominoes from the stressors. Many folks'll be "going-off" like improperly bottled and capped beer. Perhaps a great many at once will "go-off" as all are in confrontational pathological co-dependent recycling interaction... the Soc-majors will be writing thesii on this for decades as an example of how not to get the job done.

Victor K.

Hizbastardollah have been lobbin' rocketry into civilian areas of Israel day after day, on purpose for cryin' out loud, where's the outcry? Oh right, they are the good guys

Oh, women and children and old men were killed eh? Ya, they were probably the families of the Hizbastardollah don't you presume? Better yet, they were held at gunpoint as human shields by the Hizbastardollah, now there's a courageous battle tactic!

No, they were innocent civilians eh? Uh huh, like those 3000 in the WTC in New York, or the the hundreds before and since, innocent civilians, myriad countries, nightclubs, bars, restaurants, markets, shopping centers, busses.

Big deal, it's war, it's been war, and it will continue to be war.

To those who are appalled, phooey, you ain't seen nothin' yet....

Originally posted by grover
So Israel told the people of the village where this attack happened to leave. Villagers, peasents, generally do not leave their holdings...

I hope you do realize there was a reason for asking them to leave don't you? Or are you showing your own ignorance by not admitting to the fact that Hezbollah may have been using those very civilians as human shields for several days while firing perhaps 100 missiles from that immediate area? No one can deny the fact that hezbollah has a history of holding civilian hostages, I can remember they held many Americans hostage for 7 years in Iran can you?

FYI, most if not all major news networks have been carrying IDF and news network videos showing the missiles were launched from that very area all day long, in fact from one set/group of the missles appeared to be fired from right next to the building in question where the individuals died. Your ignorance of these facts has been denied





[edit on 7/30/2006 by shots]

A sad and cold response smokenmirrors.

On several different threads now Muaddib has falsely accused me of anti-semitism and of hating Israel and Jews. Such an accusation is deeply offensive and a blatant lie and totally unnecessary.

A judicious reading of any of my posts dealing with subject would reveal that I condemn the violence all the way around, on all sides and I do so from a moral prespective. I beleive war is counter-productive and never solves anything, and that is situitions like the Palestinian/Isreali conflict, both sides have blood on their hands and have relinquished any valid moral claims years ago.

In claiming that I am anti-semitic, Muaddib is using the same sort of phony argument used by those who say that those of us who are opposed to this administration hate America. nothing could be further from the truth and such claims are nothing but mean spirited and malicious.

I have absolutely nothing against the Jews, as far as I am concerned they are just another people. Not special, not chosen, just another ethnic group and just another religion. No big deal, EXCEPT that they suffered through 2,000 years of Christian bigotry and fed into the maul of Molach by the Nazis in the holocaust. I have nothing against them as I said, but that does not mean that I have to approve of everything that their government does any more than I have to approve of what our government does.

It is true that I tend to support the Palestinian cause...that does not mean that I support the terrorism though, the suicide bombers and all of that, because I do not. I do feel that they have been given a very raw deal and have a right to their anger and have a right to fight back if they feel that they must. I am no pacifist, though I do believe that war should always be the act of last resort, not first choice.

The Israeli government certianly has the right to defend itself of that there is no doubt. Its methods are what I question and I also question whether they even care that their tactics fuel more hatred against them and cause more problems than it solves. The thing is Isreali weaponry, thanks to us, is the most sophisticated in the region besides ours and they could be far more accurate than they are. The overall attitude is given anyway that they really do not care about collateral damage. They may be, but that is not the impression given the loop sided death toll. On NPR this afternoon in reporting on this strike the reporter in the region was asked if they had seen any hezbollah fighters in the area and his response was telling...no, we never do, they are constantly on the move. Constantly on the move. Given the Israeli response, they would be fools to have stationary missile batteries.

Israel has a track record of heavy handedness when a more surgical touch would be far more effective. They have some of the finest special ops forces in the world, they could have just as easily sent them in against Hezbollah and probably been just as effective if not more. But Israel has a tendency to keep up their strong arm tactics until the collateral damage starts harming them more then helping them. 10 years ago, Israeli missiles killed over 100 in a refugee camp in the same area as this house and the result was that they ceased their offensive in the face of international outrage, this slaughter could very possibly have the same result. It has already led to a 48 hour cession in air strikes.

Finally if Israel thinks that these tactics will discourage either the Palestinians from supporting Hamas or the Lebanese from supporting Hezbollah, then they have already lost. Their actions have had the exact opposite response and odds are in the long run actually strengthen their hands.
Violence only begets more violence.

In response to Shots a survivor was interviewed and his response was telling..."Yes we were told to leave but they were also heavily bombing the only road out of here so what do we do?"