POLITICS: Sheehan Attacks Israel, Refuses to Pay Taxes

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The word is out:
Bush is supported by Corrupt oil interests!

Get real Grady.
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SkepticOverlord, I think this is the first time me and you have ever agreed on something.

The whole point of these terrorists is to change the way we live our lives. They want us to live in a constant state of fear. To assume the guy over there is one of them - divide us.

The whole idea of Left/Right politics only helps this. The whole idea of invading Nations only helps this. Surely the best way to solve terrorism is to create an internal safe heaven.

But while America spends money on things like Iraq, the internal safe haven is gone. Look at gangs like MS-13, or the thousands of people killed every year in America for drug and gang crime. This is real terror.

When people can't let their children outside to play. That is terrorism and invading Nations like Iraq will not remove that terror from the people.

The 290billion spent on Iraq (I think that's the amount) is money that could have been spent to shut off the borders to illegal immigrants. Create a better internal database of gang members, deport those who murder innocents and keep them out of the nation. It could have gone into programs in poorer areas to help remove drugs. To actually fight the war on drugs.

But instead it has been wasted on creating more terrorism.

The Act of a Government is to protect its people and create the best life for all of them it can. Iraq was a much lower threat than MS-13, drugs and a weak educations system.

It's just a shame people do not realise this yet.

Bush is supported by Corrupt oil interests!

And anti-smoking campaigns are supported by tobacco manufacturers.

What's your point?



[edit on 15-8-2005 by apc]

I find it fascinating how quickly people jump to protect the clear lies being spouted by Sheehan and her ilk -- namely the war is illegal, etc. on the basis of the Constitution and laws of the United States.

If one thing is clear in the actual body of the Constitution, it's that the President and the Congress together have clear, unadulterated, unmoderated, plenary and absolute power to wage war at their sole discretion against any foreign power.

However, the right of free speech guaranteed by the First Amendment has always been circumscribed. For example, you can't yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater. Nor can you give aid and comfort to an enemy of the United States, because that is treason.

Please don't forget what the constitution and our body of law really says just fit your own peacenik agendas...

The link works fine now Grady, thanks--pretty neutral article as well.

Originally posted by slank


Get real Grady.

I am real, slank. No one with a brain denies that the Middle East has global interest because of it's resources. No one with a brain thinks that the US needed a war to buy Iraqi oil, that I know of, or even needs Iraqi oil, for that matter.

Do you drive a car, heat your home, wear synthetic fabrics? Do you think that oil companies should just give you their products? Should they not make a profit for their shareholders? Why are they necessarily corrupt or is that just an article of faith or your mantra?

Originally posted by Odium
The 290billion spent on Iraq (I think that's the amount) is money that could have been spent to shut off the borders to illegal immigrants. Create a better internal database of gang members, deport those who murder innocents and keep them out of the nation.

You haven't heard of the ACLU have you?

Absolutely DJ, let us not forget this is a Republic.
Not a democracy.
As it should be. Democracy does not, and has never worked.
Our forefathers knew this, and drafted our constitution to reflect this principle. It is why we are still here, today.


[edit on 15-8-2005 by apc]

I know who the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) are.

But none of what I said they could stop.

No court would rule in their favour on deporting a murdered. If it did that Judge/Jury, would have to be overly corrupt.

They can also make it simple and pass laws to bar murders (non-American born) who commit murders in America from returning there and I doubt anyone would cause too much fuss over it.

I can understand her being upset about Bush, and Iraq, and her son being killed, but what exactly does ANY of that have to do with Israel and Palestine? I didn't have time to go through the whole thread, so if someone answered that sorry for asking it again.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
I can understand her being upset about Bush, and Iraq, and her son being killed, but what exactly does ANY of that have to do with Israel and Palestine? I didn't have time to go through the whole thread, so if someone answered that sorry for asking it again.

Terrorism.

Pure and simple.

A majority of the Muslim World is Anti-Israel.
Removing the Iraqi Government (which was Anti-Israel) helps them out.
If Iran gets taken care of as well then Israel is the only real power in the region.

Originally posted by Odium
Can anyone answer my question?

It's something I've been wanting a lot of people to answer for a while now.

"Why doesn't America focus on its internal problems instead of creating external problems"?

Because we were attacked by "external forces", we are going out there and fighting this external force. Iraq was and is still a terrorist haven. It is a lot better to fight them in the middle east than having to fight all of them in downtown USA, and downtown Europe, even though we are also fighting them there. The war makes most of these terrorist/insurgents fight in their own country instead of ours.


The war did not create these terrorist, they have attacked us (western civilization) before this war started. There are problems inside the US, but one of the biggest problems we have righ now is Islamic terrorists. That is what we are fighting.

[edit on 16-8-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by Odium
Can anyone answer my question?

It's something I've been wanting a lot of people to answer for a while now.

"Why doesn't America focus on its internal problems instead of creating external problems"?

Because we were attacked by "external forces", we are going out there and fighting this externl force. Iraq was and is still a terrorist haven. It is a lot better to fight them in the middle east than having to fight all of them in downtown USA.

The war did not create these terrorist they have attacked us (western civilization) before this war started. There are problems inside the US, but one of the biggest problems is Islamic terrorists. That is what we are fighting.

Was?

Could you show me a report displaying Iraq as a heaven for terrorism (proven) prior to the invasion?

And you don't think more people are murdered in America than killed by terrorists?

The Salmon Pak area of Iraq was used as a terrorist training camp to practice hijacking airplanes before 9/11.

Here's something I found about it online:

www.benadorassociates.com...

Originally posted by djohnsto77
The Salmon Pak area of Iraq was used as a terrorist training camp to practice hijacking airplanes before 9/11.

Here's something I found about it online:

www.benadorassociates.com...

But by the looks of that, they got this information after they invaded?

An American military spokesman affirmed, "The nature of the work being doneby some of those people we captured. ..gives us the impression that there isterrorist training that was conducted at Salman Pak."

and

The marines "inferred" that the airplane "was used to practice hijacking," the Associated Press reported. Saddam's apologists claim the camp was for counterterrorism training, but that seems highly improbable.

I don't think that article is proof. (I did read it all) and we also assume these are "terrorists". But by the logic of the article, the C.I.A. and their operations in Cuba, etc, would have those people classified as terrorists.

Responding to a request from Saddam, M-14, the division of Iraqi intelligence responsible for training and conducting special operations, produced a report dated April 1, 1993. The seven page document lists 100 "Arab fedayeen," whom it had trained in Iraq during the fall of 1990.Their nationalities include a wide swath of the Arab world: Palestinians, Syrians, Lebanese, Egyptians, Moroccans, Tunisians, Sudanese, and Eritreans, who are not usually considered Arab.

One important relationship discussed in the documents is Iraq's support for the militant domestic opponents of the Egyptian government, a key Arab member of the 1990-91 coalition against Iraq.

The article doesn't proove there were camps there prior to the invasion. They claim any sort of "Special Agent" should be classified as a terrorist. Meaning the American Government have been involved in terrorism (over-throw of Governments with C.I.A. involvement, actions in Cuba, etc.)

Google gave me this, from which I am quoting in reverse chronological order (all prior to our invasion):
Bio-Chemical Weapons & Saddam: A History.

2003, February 5. Secretary of State Colin Powell address the U.N. He presents to that body proof, in the form of voice intercepts, spy-satalite, U-2 imagery, and eye-witness accounts, of Saddams violations of of U.N. resolutions and his continuing efforts to thwart them. He also provides proof that Saddam is training terrorists, including al-Queada.

2003, January 16. Previously undisclosed warheads for chemical weapons are discovered by UN inspectors. A joint UNMOVIC/IAEA team also find a significant cache of documents related to Iraq’s uranium enrichment program in the home of Iraqi scientist Faleh Hassan.

2002, September 9. A new report released from the International Institute for Strategic Studies, an independent research organization, concludes that Saddam Hussein could build a nuclear bomb within months if he were able to obtain enough fissile material.

2002, September 5. An editorial in the Iraqi newspaper “Al-Iqtisadi”, which is owned by Saddam Hussein's eldest son Uday, called for the formation of suicide [fidaiyoon] squads to launch broad-based sabotage operations against the United States, its friends, and interests.

2002, September. Iraq is again caught trying to import high-quality aluminum tubes. These tubes are required for making uranium enrichment centrifuges.

2002, April. Saddam Hussein increases from $10,000 to $25,000 the money offered to families of Palestinian homicide bombers. The rules for rewarding homicide bombers are strict and insist that only someone who blows himself up with a belt of explosives gets the full payment.

2002. A former Iraqi intelligence officer responsible for setting up front companies for illegal overseas purchases claims that Iraq has arranged to purchase nuclear weapons material (including uranium) from Armscor, South Africa’s state armaments directorate.

That's just one year prior.

You wont find these in the leftist publishings about how the only reason terrorists are attacking us is because we installed military bases on their Muslim Holy Land (even though they've been attacking us for more than half a century...).

Will this deranged woman even bother to recognize these as fact? I doubt it. Will the left's beloved Moore even bother to recognize these as fact? I doubt it. Were these very internal threats from an external source? Absolutely.


[edit on 16-8-2005 by apc]

sometimes i feel like we're just going around in circles and not accomplishing anything

People can be quick to come up with arguments smearing Sheehan but what we should be asking is why a president on holidays just cant see this woman and get it over with?

thanks,
drfunk

[edit on 16-8-2005 by drfunk]

I think for the same reason our President shouldn't be expected to hear my personal gripes over the cost of fuel.

This woman is an ant, not worth our President's time. Regardless of his political stance, policies, or opinions.. he is our President afterall. This woman is a joke who deserves, at the very least, to be forgotten.

2003, February 5. Secretary of State Colin Powell address the U.N. He presents to that body proof, in the form of voice intercepts, spy-satalite, U-2 imagery, and eye-witness accounts, of Saddams violations of of U.N. resolutions and his continuing efforts to thwart them. He also provides proof that Saddam is training terrorists, including al-Queada.

Source
The commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks reported Wednesday that Osama bin Laden met with a top Iraqi official in 1994 but found “no credible evidence” of a link between Iraq and al-Qaida in attacks against the United States

-snip-

The report said that bin Laden explored possible cooperation with Saddam at the urging of allies in Sudan eager to protect their own ties to Iraq, even though the al-Qaida leader had previously provided support for “anti-Saddam Islamists in Iraqi Kurdistan.”

2003, January 16. Previously undisclosed warheads for chemical weapons are discovered by UN inspectors. A joint UNMOVIC/IAEA team also find a significant cache of documents related to Iraq’s uranium enrichment program in the home of Iraqi scientist Faleh Hassan.

But still no chemical weapons. Also the Iraqi Government was in ruins. They were not a highly organised group. Even the Russian Government has lost missiles before. Especially empty ones.

2002, September 9. A new report released from the International Institute for Strategic Studies, an independent research organization, concludes that Saddam Hussein could build a nuclear bomb within months if he were able to obtain enough fissile material.

Oh no? He could build one. Not was trying. Was going to. But if he wanted he could. If any Government wanted, they probably could.

2002, September 5. An editorial in the Iraqi newspaper “Al-Iqtisadi”, which is owned by Saddam Hussein's eldest son Uday, called for the formation of suicide [fidaiyoon] squads to launch broad-based sabotage operations against the United States, its friends, and interests.

And? His Brother, not him. I guess if this is the case and Saddam is responsible for every action of his brother than Bush is responsible for the actions of the whole of his family? If any of them commit a crime he is also guilty of it?

2002, September. Iraq is again caught trying to import high-quality aluminum tubes. These tubes are required for making uranium enrichment centrifuges.

Are they not allowe to build Nuclear Power Stations? Would they not need these for that?

2002, April. Saddam Hussein increases from $10,000 to $25,000 the money offered to families of Palestinian homicide bombers. The rules for rewarding homicide bombers are strict and insist that only someone who blows himself up with a belt of explosives gets the full payment.

Source
The royal family of Saudi Arabia donated more than $4 billion to the Palestinians between 1998 and 2003 to help finance offensive terrorist operations against Israel, a new report says.

According to the Middle East Media Research Institute, a Washington, D.C-based group that monitors Mideast media, the House of Saud's support has gone to "'Mujahideen fighters' and 'families of martyrs'" killed in operations against the Jewish state.

Saddam gave very little compaired to many other people.

2002. A former Iraqi intelligence officer responsible for setting up front companies for illegal overseas purchases claims that Iraq has arranged to purchase nuclear weapons material (including uranium) from Armscor, South Africa’s state armaments directorate.

But it never went a head with the deal. It just looked into it. That's not breaking the law. Is it?

Originally posted by apc
That's just one year prior.

You wont find these in the leftist publishings about how the only reason terrorists are attacking us is because we installed military bases on their Muslim Holy Land (even though they've been attacking us for more than half a century...).

No.

The reason was Israel and then became the other American bases. Maybe the American Government should force Israel to uphold the U.N. Resolutions brought against it?

Originally posted by apc
Will this deranged woman even bother to recognize these as fact? I doubt it. Will the left's beloved Moore even bother to recognize these as fact? I doubt it. Were these very internal threats from an external source? Absolutely.

They're not fact.
He did nothing illegal on the WMD front and the Nuclear front.
He is not the nations giving the most money to terrorists so you can't use that reason either.
He's not the largest training ground for terrorists so that reason can't be used either.

Come on as well, was it about WMD, Terrorism, or everything under the sun?

And yet still if the PAC-3 system works, which it should do for the money, they'd not have to worry.

America has larger internal problems. Drugs for example and gang crime for another. That's terrorising more people than Saddam ever could have.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
The Salmon Pak area of Iraq was used as a terrorist training camp to practice hijacking airplanes before 9/11.

Here's something I found about it online:

www.benadorassociates.com...

Interesting link DJ. Has the information in that report been corroborated by anyone?