POLITICS: Sheehan Attacks Israel, Refuses to Pay Taxes

Verygood read. You have know doubt done some thorough thinking on the matter and conveyed your thoughts clearly.

Dallas

there are hundreds if not thousands of right wing kooks that refuse to pay their income taxes on far more spurious grounds than protesting an immoral and unneccessary war...that she made these statements is unfortunate, far better that she sticks to her issue, but treasonous hardly.

I think Hermann Goering had something to say about all this during the Nurenburg Trials:

“Naturally the common people don’t want war. But after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it’s always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. ”This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and for exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."

You have to realize every time you say we should throw someone in jail for saying X, you prove people like Sheehan (and me) right in our beliefs about the right-wing and Bush supporters. People who wrap themselves in the flag and patriotism can say the most un-American things sometimes..

Originally posted by djohnsto77
but nonetheless she is giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

How is that?

It seems that stamping out opinions we don't like would give the enemy reason to celebrate... as we would become more like them.

I never understood why the extreme conservative hawks categorize dissention of war-time opinion as giving "aid and comfort" to the enemy. Last time I checked... we fought hard for those liberties.

"Cindy Sheehan said the stress of the death led to the separation of the couple, who were high school sweethearts.

It also led her to take her activism just short of the president's door step, where she has held an anti-war demonstration for more than a week.

Sheehan, who has been joined by more than 100 anti-war activists, vowed to remain in Texas through Bush's August vacation, unless he meets with her."
news.yahoo.com...

---

A lot of people need to realise, this isn't an uncommon reason for a marital break-down. The loss of a child can result in an amazing level of stress on both of the "adults" and in some reguards the whole family. Forcing them all apart. Especially during times of war - this is no different.

It was also a very common thing during the Vietnam war, when parents had views different to one another. Normally allowing for a stronger unity (over coming the differences) but when a child is lost it brings them up once more and only helps to distance the family.

Both of them are doing what they think is best for their child. In honesty, the woman (like you all) was lied too. It has been made clear that both the British and American (and every other Nations) forces were taken into conflict on lies. Now she just wants answers on why they really went to war.

I don't think I can say I wouldn't want the same questions answered if it was child. Can you? Honestly?

Originally posted by Mayet

Sounds to me like shes being used as a mouthpiece and figurehead for every anti war supporter in the USA. Its sad really now instead of having what she has to say, she is listening to what others are saying to her and parroting their words.

I don't know how you got away with this comment. The other day I said almost exactly the same thing and just got crucified for saying it. Now that I've gotton that off my chest I can say I couldn't agree with you more. There is a sickness within our society that lets people like Cindy get used so easily by one side or the other without any real concern for the poor woman's suffering and dignity. I tend to want to blame the press for this sad state of affairs, but it isn't really their fault. True, the whole thing would never have started without the press's eagerness to turn her pathetic plight to their own advantage, but also true that the ploy used by the press would never have worked if society itself wasn't just as responsible for letting the situation develop the way it has.

We are all shamed by this kind of thing and all a little irresponsible for not having the foresight and willingness to prevent it.

[edit on 15-8-2005 by Astronomer68]

Valhall said:

And bringing up what you believe to be the "most corrupt administration", that of Clinton -- I understand that his c*m-spot, cigar and b.j., along with the lie that accompanied it may be the darkest spot in our history for you...

I think old Billy was up to a whole lot more than getting his knob polished. Missle secrets sold to China and Ron Brown are just the tip of the iceburg. I could really care less that he lied about screwing the porker, who wouldn't!

But back on topic. It seems like this woman has truly lost it. While it's tragic that she lost her son, and she may not be playing w/ a full deck, if see chooses not to pay her taxes something should be done. I'm not saying throw her in jail, but she can't just walk away scott free because her son died.

I think this administration is as bad as any other, and I would love to not pay my taxes, but that just ain't the way things work. The current admins done a lot of damage to the economy, but things were on a fast rollercoaster ride downhill when W took over. He just threw an assload of extra weight in the car. George W is really good at "fuzzy math", but even he couldn't pull off this kind on downturn on his own, it's been coming for a while.

[edit on 8/15/2005 by yadboy]

Originally posted by Astronomer68

I tend to want to blame the press for this sad state of affairs, but it isn't really their fault. True, the whole thing would never have started without the press's eagerness to turn her pathetic plight to their own advantage, but also true that the ploy used by the press would never have worked if society itself wasn't just as responsible for letting the situation develop the way it has.

Your tendencies were right. Stop talking yourself out of a good thing. You can lay it square on the media's shoulders. They make me sick.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
But, she certainly can't refuse to pay her taxes based on this. I support the full weight and power of the Federal government to come down upon her if she does that.

You implied that she should of been jailed before she said she wouldnt pay her 2004 taxes. You made it sound like you were happy she'd crossed some red line that actually would get her thrown in the klink for what you think she deserved any way.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
how would someone be treated if she called for the overthrow of the British government for example?

I'd buy them a pint

I just noticed the original source for this article was the drudge report...considering he demonstrably concocted her pro-Bush comments by cutting and pasting a variety of statements out of context to create them and then passed them off as real, this link is no longer worth any comment other than to say he is a known fabricator...i.e. a liar and part of the right wing noise machine...you can believe him if you want.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord


I never understood why the extreme conservative hawks categorize dissention of war-time opinion as giving "aid and comfort" to the enemy. Last time I checked... we fought hard for those liberties.

Context is everything, Overlord. I sympathize with Sheehan because of her loss, but she is not the first woman to lose an adult offspring to war. She has every right to grieve, but she has crossed the line. It is true that the conditions under which she could be, rightfully, in my opinion, prosecuted for treason or sedition do not exist, lacking a declaration of war, but in more logical times, such speech and activities would indeed be considered unlawful.

Our enemies believe in their hearts that America does not possess the wherewithal to prosecute this war successfully and every Cindy Sheehan, Michael Moore, Jane Fonda, and Souljah who clamors for capitulation gives them "aid and comfort." The law is on Sheehan's side and the President, the authorities and the good people of Crawford, Texas, have been more than gracious regarding her behavior, but her tactics have exceeded the bounds we normally allow for bereavement and have become unequivocally political and exceedingly offensive. There is a big difference between exercising one's rights and abusing those rights.


[edit on 2005/8/15 by GradyPhilpott]

I'll say it right now;

"I think the British Government (House of Lords and Commons,) as well as Church of England(and Scotland) and the Royal Family need to be removed and a trully elected Government needs to be brought in. Through a political party, revolution or by any means necessary."

You know? They'll do nothing because if they did something, I'd rip their prosecution apart in a Court Room.

It's about time people wake up and remember, the true Patriots of this world were the people that went against the ruling elite of their time. Be it the Parliamentarians or the founding fathers of America. If they never went against the Government we would be in a much worse state of affairs.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpottThere is a big difference between exercising one's rights and abusing those rights.

The same can be said of many people here.

Too bad they don't have the guts to do anything about it.

Originally posted by Valhall

You can lay it square on the media's shoulders. They make me sick.

Valhall I would dearly love to do that, but then I would be ignoring my own complicity in the situation.

Seems to me the "press" used to have a lot higher standard of journalism than they do now. I know some aspire to higher standards than others, but is there a minimum standard? Ah well, probably best to just ignore that question. This is not the place for a discussion of freedom of the press.

Not paying federal taxes and opting out of the above-ground economy is one of the viable democratic options to weaken the federal government.

The day when the federal government can't fund wars or protect the country against so-called terrorists, America is finished as a country (unmanageable) and as a concept (the empire).

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
There is a big difference between exercising one's rights and abusing those rights.

And which one defines calling for the incarceration of someone speaking against administration policies?

The real point is that no one can "call" for Sheehan's incarceration, yet. We may do no more than she is doing and that is to exercise one's right to express an opinion. The President himself has affirmed that right.

What those of us who say that she ought to be incarcerated are really saying is that it ought to be against the law to give aid and comfort to the enemy and that Sheehan is coming awfully close to that.

Unfortunately, it is not illegal to do what she is doing and therefore, regardless of what anyone thinks she will go on doing what she is doing until she is tried and convicted of tax evasion, if she pushes that far.

I said before this development that she wants nothing more than to be arrested and her refusing to pay her taxes is a surefire way to make it happen.

Of course, the left will clamor and march in the streets claiming that this bereaved mother is being persecuted for her opinions. Sheehan has converted her son's voluntary and noble sacrifice into a political bloody shirt. It is as obvious as the nose on her face that Cindy Sheehan is being played, either wittingly or unwittingly, by the left to subvert the war. That should be a crime.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
It is as obvious as the nose on her face that Cindy Sheehan is being played, either wittingly or unwittingly, by the left to subvert the war. That should be a crime.

So, to express opinions against a war now is a crime???
What happened to you, America? Are you all brainwashed by your fascist government already?

I must say that if I had gotten killed while on duty in Iraq, I don't know what my mom would have done, but this woman is acting like she is the only person to lose a child in this whole thing. Yes, of course I sympathize with her loss. A parent should have never, ever have to bury a child. But, that said, her son was an adult, and died while on duty, fighting for his country. I don't care if you agree with the war in Iraq or not; if you die on duty, you die for your country, and that is honorable. And, this woman said something that is unforgivable (in my opinion), "This country is not worth fighting for." How can anyone, especially anyone who has lost a loved one who was a service member, say that?? I lost what shred of sympathy I had for this woman.
And yes, I hope she goes to jail if she doesn't pay her damn taxes from 2004!!!