Stop blaming Al-Qaeda on the London Bombings!

Originally posted by AgentSmith
Weirdo, I'm sorry but you have brightened up my day, I'm glad some people here (and I know there's more) can get some real perspective on things, this is not the time for ridiculous theories but a time when we must unite together and fight this common evil between us.

Agreed

the theories are ridiculous to me aswell, Alex Jones made his theory within hours of the attack so he can profit of his theories some more and its completely wrong

[edit on 8-7-2005 by infinite]

What is the common evil between us as pasted by Mr. Agent? How are you going to fight this common evil? You don't even know who or what the common evil is - you only know it's label, terrorism.

Notice that there is an implied logic in the "terrorist" story: terrorists are very bad people by definition, so you can't talk to them, especially not negotiate with them. If you give a hand, the terrorist will want your arm. So the right answer to an act of terrorism would be to extinguish its organization. This is the reason why the invasion of Iraq seemed to make sense to many people at the time (they had an evil dictator, WMDs, training camps, etc). Most likely we will see a reinforcement of anglo-american brutality in Iraq. Democracy wasn't working very well, so it had to be scrapped, in view of the all-important goal of remaining there for the foreseeable future.

Originally posted by hardbodyactiv


Do they wear a special hat that proclaims 'Fundamentalist Psychotic Lunatic Here'? Of course not!!

So unless we assemble a team of say 10,000 Nerds who only specialise in video surveillance and devote perhaps the next three years to try to use Video Profiling to perhaps match a picture of a known terrorist to one of the 100's of millions of frames of video that would have been collected during the hours leading up to and perhaps even after the event, from every single one of the thousands of video cameras situated throughout the whole of the Greater London Metropolitan Region, and expect to POSITIVELY identify a perpetrator, then you seriously deserve to be a best selling fiction author

One comment Super computors.Unable to id as Top Secret and that would get me band.Having enough trouble with excessive quoting and Majic.Infinite hows being a coucil member then anyway to get back to it.Known suspects get matched into the thing out pops possible id`s.That can be matched through other cameras around UK.If you think a room full of guys looking at a screen do`s it well thats about thirties years out of date.Couldn`t tell you how it works though.I have enough trouble using my LAP DOG

hardbodyactiv
When I posted that I didn't mean that I thought the UK government did it. I don't beleive they did it but that doesn't mean Im not going to keep an open mind about different possibilities. I think that most likely Al Queda did do it but that doesn't mean I rule out all other possibilities. I was talking about the fricken security cameras and how they probly will have something on them if they look through it. Not once in my post did I claim the UK government orchestrated the London attacks. I don't know why you are "appalled" about me posting that I think they might have something on security cameras. Thank you for telling me muslim extremist don't like Westerner's, I already knew that.

All I have to say is pay attention for inconsitencies in the news just like they did on 9/11. I also read an article sayin the Israeli's warned the British about this happening -- remind you of anything?

Actually facial recognition is more complicated then you think. It works by measuring the points between facial features much like the way fingerprint recognition works. If you do not get a good clear shot of the face or if it's masked in some way then it will not operate.
These people will have done dry runs and worked out the position of cameras and will know the best way to walk and hold themselves, without looks suspicious, but not allowing the camera to get a good enough image at the right angle to feed the computer. It is actually a lot simpler than it sounds and isn't actually very complicated.

Here is a site of a company that sells a Facial recognition software SDK, you can even download a demo.

I suggest you play with it and read the requirements (to get an ID that is).

All the supercomputers in the world can't help you if you don;t have enough data to feed it.

It's like trying to operate a fingerprint reader with an oily, dirty finger.

Originally posted by Seoul On Ice
All I have to say is pay attention for inconsitencies in the news just like they did on 9/11. I also read an article sayin the Israeli's warned the British about this happening -- remind you of anything?

The news is always inconsistant, they try to throw a story together out of anything and often come to their own assumptions, regardless of concrete facts, for maximum effect and the to ensure they get 'their story'. They do it all the time, if the authorities don;t know and don't make a statement, how the hell can a bunch of reporters know better?

Originally posted by AgentSmith
Actually facial recognition is more complicated then you think. It works by measuring the points between facial features much like the way fingerprint recognition works. If you do not get a good clear shot of the face or if it's masked in some way then it will not operate.
These people will have done dry runs and worked out the position of cameras and will know the best way to walk and hold themselves, without looks suspicious, but not allowing the camera to get a good enough image at the right angle to feed the computer. It is actually a lot simpler than it sounds and isn't actually very complicated.

Here is a site of a company that sells a Facial recognition software SDK, you can even download a demo.

I suggest you play with it and read the requirements (to get an ID that is).

All the supercomputers in the world can't help you if you don;t have enough data to feed it.

It's like trying to operate a fingerprint reader with an oily, dirty finger.

Not soley facial recognition.It recognises body items,mannerism ie limps,strid length,hair.I`m not saying that it can id a person as in hears the guys that put the bomb.The intelligance gathered from say the bus driver.He describes a person that he believes did it.
On the day BBC radio 2 took a phone call from a man on that bus who got off a few minutes before.He regonised at the time a person with olive coloured skin wouldbe drawn on whether the man was arab/muslim type,clean shaven(Terrorist expert asked if he was clean shaven as suicide bombers tend to shave off any beards they may have) that seemed to be spending a long time messing with a rucksack.He didn`t think anything of it until boom.His description clothing etc etc etc would be given and searched all images to trace backwards this guys movements from arrival in London and beyond because every car park,Motoway (freeway) town has cameras.He can then be followed.Obviously not in real time but it allows people to gather info required to find the suspects.This technology can never id people for use in courts.Its used to profile and collate movement.That is basically its main use.That person can be id by searching all the cameras involved to find an image that could be used.That then could be used to falsify a poor image at the seen of the crime that may not have been useable.That links along with forensic`s which could find fragments of clothing,hair etc etc at the seen.Watch the media some point sooner than we would expect but not too soon images of suspects will start to appear.Followed by members on here saying that they must be govt agents doin the bombing as they are id ing people too soon fuelling the conspiricy theories we all love to read on here
The guy given the evidence can be traced to see if he got on the bus and his story could be verified.These cameras are here not only to see what you are doin but also where you came from.

You gotta love technology.

PS to the admin as this cannot be verified as posting Top Secret info would get me band,it is not false as this would also get me band.So l dunno if this means you gonna make another T&C then ban me.

Rules don`t you just love them.


W

[edit on 8-7-2005 by weirdo]

Originally posted by weirdo

You`d better believe that Western govts are out to improve things.
[edit on 8-7-2005 by weirdo]

Heh...after an attack like this, where they blame an elusive al qaeda organization, and you say western govt's are out improving things? If you can provide me an example, go ahead, but it's your choice.

I know what al aqaeda is and my ideas of this particular group are entirely different than yours.

Anyway, I'm glad that I have the freedom to share my own opinions on ATS 'cause I know that someone out there thinks along the same lines as I do. I know what I write challenges others as well. I thank ATS for allowing that.

Originally posted by weirdo

You`d better believe that Western govts are out to improve things.
[edit on 8-7-2005 by weirdo]

Heh...after an attack like this, where they blame an elusive al qaeda organization, and you say western govt's are out improving things? If you can provide me an example, go ahead, but it's your choice.

Would you prefer a govt on the lines of the Taliban,Saddam Hussein but a few.

I know what al aqaeda is and my ideas of this particular group are entirely different than yours.

Please share them.Hopefully they will be a little more imaganative than the current Bush/Blair govt causing it to gain fuel to enter Iran or control the world.If they wanted to enter Iran they could plant reasons other than the terrorist line oh l forgot they have Iran is being threatened not for its shady links to terror but its insistance on being able to produce Nuclear weapons.

Anyway, I'm glad that I have the freedom to share my own opinions on ATS 'cause I know that someone out there thinks along the same lines as I do. I know what I write challenges others as well. I thank ATS for allowing that.

You the same as the rest of the people here you believe that the govt is BLah Blah etc etc etc etc need to thank your leaders for allowing you and others the freedom to criticise them without you or your family being killed,tortured etc etc.


W

[edit on 8-7-2005 by weirdo]

Originally posted by weirdo
You the same as the rest of the people here you believe that the govt is BLah Blah etc etc etc etc need to thank your leaders for allowing you and others the freedom to criticise them without you or your family being killed,tortured etc etc.

But those wise leaders don't treat other peoples so well... It seems that you have to be American or English these days to be entitled to decent treatment.
I call attention again to the blatant censorship and absence of strong images in the aftermath. I don't care if that is not considered proper by some. I see that the shock dosage is being carefully measured. A little more and the patient would wake up.

Originally posted by StarBreather

I call attention again to the blatant censorship and absence of strong images in the aftermath. I don't care if that is not considered proper by some. I see that the shock dosage is being carefully measured. A little more and the patient would wake up.

I have several none English speaking news channels running.On the day it happened i watch the most blood thirsty, the TVE (Spainish News).They were the first to show the mobile images in the tunnel.They showed the bits of bodies on the bus, they showed the one in particular of a man being taken out of an Ambulance with the crews doin Heart Massage on his near naked body that was badly burn`t with his leg hanging off.It was obvious this guy was dead and not returning.Seeing these images is not good.Imagine if you had somebody missing and you were seeing these images.It dosn`t make you angry just sad.

Originally posted by weirdo
PS to the admin as this cannot be verified as posting Top Secret info would get me band,it is not false as this would also get me band.So l dunno if this means you gonna make another T&C then ban me.

Rules don`t you just love them.

This last part of your post confused me. What are you saying is "top secret", and why would posting something of that nature get you banned from this forum? Why would making up anything get you banned from this forum? I mean go read through the other 10,000 threads on here and see how many people there stick to the facts.

It's one thing to create a thread with the intention of fabricating a story to see how many people you can fool (that's bad, it wastes everyones time), it's another thing to just talk out your arse (that's 1/3 of ATS).

Originally posted by Majic
On ATS, we represent a continuum of thought and opinions that exists between these extremes.

One thing we all have in common is that we talk about these things here, with one another.

If any of us knew all the answers, there would be no need for discussion.

Hello, everyone!
I'm new here, and I find this thread very interesting. Majic, when I came across your thread that said the above quote, I felt a sense of relief, because this is what I had hoped I was going to see here. People having a discussion, whether they agree or not!

Celebrate diversity, I say! We are all different, and have different opinions and points of view for a reason. I like to hear the other side of things - it makes me think! Ultimately, it's not my job to convince someone else that my thoughts or opinions are right or wrong. It's my job to convince myself of what my own thoughts or opinions are -- through self-education. Some of that comes through my own research, but a lot of it comes through interacting with other people.

That said, I will watch the films as soon as I can. I'm interested in what they have to say. Do I think that there is no such thing as a group of terrorists called Al Qaeda? I don't know. Do I think it's possible that Blair and Bush went around setting off bombs? Well...no, not exactly. I do, however, think that the U.S. government and its cohorts are just as bullying as many of the groups it condemns. Our government doesn't tell us all about its dark secrets - let's face it - people are greedy. And the ones who make it to the top are the worst because they are the ones who stepped all over everyone else around them to get there.

So, do I think there might have been some involvement by our government? Yes, I think it is entirely possible. But, don't think for a second they didn't cover their tracks better than an organized crime group would -- they would finance the operation through a very distant process, moving money around until you couldn't trace it anymore. A group like Al Qaeda could have easily been brought up by our government to do their dirty work -- and they may not even know it!

Thanks for the great discussion -- keep it going!

At least some people on this thread have the degree of perception to see what's going on
Somehow I feel the government will never bother to give a real account of the situation
They've got so many brainwashed parrots squawking 'al-Qaeda' and this time not a Koran or Islamic text in sight
Before the main lights of their official lies get out, many have now seen it. The mantra against the official story must be repeated over and over
Don't believe it for a moment, not Islamist fundamentalists, rather agents of the State

Originally posted by weirdo
Seeing these images is not good.Imagine if you had somebody missing and you were seeing these images.It dosn`t make you angry just sad.

While the images may be strong, their wider showing would not be gratuitous. There is important information there, that is not being conveyed. There is a total mismatch between the softness of your public debate and the harshness of your war policy. This is a sign that you may no longer be living in a democracy, as you think. Think about this: whomever you elect, no one can stop the war. Who makes the decisions for you? Where is the real center of power in your society?

Originally posted by CatHerder


This last part of your post confused me. What are you saying is "top secret", and why would posting something of that nature get you banned from this forum? Why would making up anything get you banned from this forum? I mean go read through the other 10,000 threads on here and see how many people there stick to the facts.

It's one thing to create a thread with the intention of fabricating a story to see how many people you can fool (that's bad, it wastes everyones time), it's another thing to just talk out your arse (that's 1/3 of ATS).

Yeah the T&C confuse me.If you post information that you no to be false,misleading or inaccurate you can be banned.Posting Top Secret info will also result in a member being band.If the rules were that strict this would be a baron place.The info i was taking abot is starting to come into mainstream knowledge the same as Echelon did.Once a technology is no longer useful it gets leaked out.Since terrorist no longer talk on the phone Echelon no long used.Same with this technology as soon as id cards are being used peoples locating can be tracked that way rather than relying on cameras.
I was just having a childish poke at the rules since Thomas crowne has decided to take warning about excessive quoting to the kindergarden level rather than acting like an Adult and U2Uing me.

Originally posted by StarBreather
. Who makes the decisions for you? Where is the real center of power in your society?

I make the decisions.If l don`t like the govt and voting won`t get rid l just leave the contry and live somehere else.
Ever since there`s been Humans we have been controlled either within the family or tribes.
I don`t know if you are American or British or whether you have ever seen the big brother programmes.12 people cut off living together with a controlling force "Big Brother" keeping the rules and punishing the house mates when rules are broken.There follows set rules everytime that are the same in society.Groups are formed after a period of total unrest and rule breaking,arguing until the stronger personalities take over and groups are formed with a leader and followers.We have allways followed others.The world would be in a mess without this basic structure.We will never be free of leaders,corruption but we have given ourselves an opt out by have democracy and the ability to vote.

Birds Of A Feather

Originally posted by Tidepooler
I'm new here, and I find this thread very interesting.

Tidepooler, welcome aboard!

It is always a pleasure to see new skeptics on the board, whatever your views may be.

Based on what you've posted so far, we seem to have much in common -- but hopefully not so much in common that we devolve into some sort of pathetic mutual admiration society.

But I must definitely say "hear hear!" to your post.

There's a lot of hanky-panky going on for those who take interest in such things, but none of us is likely to uncover it by chasing our tails.

On ATS, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, which is far and away the most important thing of all.

But when I look at the future of ATS, I see a tight if eccentric community bound together by a love for seeking the truth, regardless of where that search leads, and how uncomfortable the consequences may be.

We have a lot of that now, but there's pkenty of room for improvement.

ATS wears a black band for a reason, and we're not out of the woods yet, my dear friends.

The truth is out there.

Let's keep looking for it.