"Masonic" Handshakes and Other Nonsense...

Originally posted by CPYKOmega
You guys wouldn't know poetry if it bit you in the ass.

And you think that "33" nonsense was any better?!

There are, however, those who would beg to differ with your opinion... I really don't care what you say; first, I wrote it in about 45 seconds, second, it was to poke fun at you. I actually wrote it with being simple and silly in mind. Set aside the fact that mine is actually true...

Originally posted by sebatwerk
No particular talent for words...

Aw, Seb, now you've gone and hurt my feelings!

Not like I was going for any awards here, fellas... It was a joke.

Wouldn't know poetry if it bit me in the ass...

Here's a great one... The author is anonymous, or so the site said...

"Lines to a Skeleton"
author unknown

Behold this ruin, 'Twas a skull
Once of ethereal spirit full.
This narrow cell was Life's retreat,
This space was Thought's mysterious seat.
What beauteous visions filled this spot,
What dreams of pleasure long forgot?
Nor hope, nor joy, nor love, nor fear,
Have left one trace on record here.
Beneath this mouldering canopy,
Once shone the bright and busy eye:
But start not at the dismal void--
If social love that eye employed.
If with no lawless fire it gleamed,
But through the dews of kindness beamed;
That eye shall be forever bright,
When stars and sun are sunk at night.
Within this hollow cavern hung,
The ready, swift, and tuneful tongue;
If Falsehood's honey it disdained,
And when it could not praise be chained.
If bold in Virtue's cause it spoke,
Yet gentle concord never broke--
This silent tongue shall plead for thee,
When Time unveils Eternity.
Say, did these fingers delve the mine,
Or with the envied rubies shine?
To hew a rock or wear a gem,
Can little now avail to them.
But if the page of truth they sought,
Or comfort to the mourners brought,
These hands a richer meed they claim,
Than all that wait on Wealth and Fame.
Avails it whether bare or shod,
These feet the paths of duty trod?
If from the bowers of Ease they fled.
To seek Affliction's humble shed.
If Grandeur's guilty bribe they spurned,
And home to Virtue's cot returned--
These feet with angel wings shall vie,
And tread the palace of the sky.

Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it, CPYK...

[edit on 5/27/05 by The Axeman]

Found this little tid-bit of info on the Grand Lodge of Kentucky's website.
This might be helpful understanding how the "administration" of Masonry works and their respective responsibilities. Granted this is for Kentucky, but most if not all, follow along the same basic principles.

www.grandlodgeofkentucky.org...

Notice there is no mention of a degree higher than Master Mason (the 3rd degree).

[edit on 27-5-2005 by Golfie]

Originally posted by The Axeman

Originally posted by sebatwerk
No particular talent for words...

Aw, Seb, now you've gone and hurt my feelings!

Hahaha I was joking! Come on now, like you were even trying!

Here's a great one... The author is anonymous, or so the site said...

"Lines to a Skeleton"

That's always been my favorite masonic poem EVER. There's another good one in the prelogue of the book "The Craft and its Symbols. I will find it and post it when I get home. Here's another one meanwhile:


I SEE YOU'VE TRAVELED SOME
- Author unknown

Wherever you may chance to be
Wherever you may roam,
Far away in foreign lands;
Or just at Home Sweet Home;
It always gives you pleasure,
it makes your heart strings hum
Just to hear the words of cheer,
"I see you've traveled some."

When you get a brother's greeting,
And he takes you by the hand,
It thrills you with a feeling
that you cannot understand,
You feel that bond of brotherhood
that tie that's sure to come
When you hear him say in a friendly way
"I see you've traveled some."

And if you are a stranger,
In strange lands all alone
If fate has left you stranded
Dead broke and far from home,
It thrills you--makes you numb,
When he says with a grip of fellowship,
"I see you've traveled some."

And when your final summons comes,
To take a last long trip,
Adorned with Lambskins Apron White
and gems of fellowship
The tiler at the Golden Gate,
With square and rule and plumb
Will size up your pin and say "Walk In",
"I see you've traveled some."

I was asking an honest question.

From before...

Tell me…
If a member of the chess club, also studied in checkers, does he have more POWER over the chess club then the president of the chess club?

Originally posted by The Axeman

Here's a great one... The author is anonymous, or so the site said...

"Lines to a Skeleton"
author unknown

Behold this ruin, 'Twas a skull
Once of ethereal spirit full.
This narrow cell was Life's retreat,
This space was Thought's mysterious seat.
What beauteous visions filled this spot,
What dreams of pleasure long forgot?
Nor hope, nor joy, nor love, nor fear,
Have left one trace on record here.
Beneath this mouldering canopy,
Once shone the bright and busy eye:
But start not at the dismal void--
If social love that eye employed.
If with no lawless fire it gleamed,
But through the dews of kindness beamed;
That eye shall be forever bright,
When stars and sun are sunk at night.
Within this hollow cavern hung,
The ready, swift, and tuneful tongue;
If Falsehood's honey it disdained,
And when it could not praise be chained.
If bold in Virtue's cause it spoke,
Yet gentle concord never broke--
This silent tongue shall plead for thee,
When Time unveils Eternity.
Say, did these fingers delve the mine,
Or with the envied rubies shine?
To hew a rock or wear a gem,
Can little now avail to them.
But if the page of truth they sought,
Or comfort to the mourners brought,
These hands a richer meed they claim,
Than all that wait on Wealth and Fame.
Avails it whether bare or shod,
These feet the paths of duty trod?
If from the bowers of Ease they fled.
To seek Affliction's humble shed.
If Grandeur's guilty bribe they spurned,
And home to Virtue's cot returned--
These feet with angel wings shall vie,
And tread the palace of the sky.

Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it, CPYK...

[edit on 5/27/05 by The Axeman]

Like I said earlier.... you didn't write that poem... so you have no frame of reference when it comes to poetry. I have to admit that it is a good poem, but as to the "put that in my pipe and smoke it" comment you still don't get the point. You didn't write that poem yourself!!!

Do you want me to quote some famous poetry with a glib remark as well? If so here it goes.
____________________________________________________________
"The Meaning of God"

There is an indefinable mysterious Power that pervades everything.

I feel It, though I do not see It.

It is this unseen Power which makes Itself felt and yet defies all proof, because It is so unlike all that I perceive through my senses. It transcends the senses....

That informing Power or Spirit is God....

For I can see that in the midst of death life persists,
in the midst of untruth, truth persists,
in the midst of darkness light persists.

Hence I gather that God is Life, Truth, Light.

He is love. He is supreme good.

But he is no God who merely satisfies the intellect if He ever does.

God to be God must rule the heart and transform it.

~Gandhi

Originally posted by CO_Cowboy
I was asking an honest question.

From before...

Tell me…
If a member of the chess club, also studied in checkers, does he have more POWER over the chess club then the president of the chess club?

Well no, the Teachers/Boosters assigned to those extra curricular clubs would be over them all wouldn't they? I'm sure niether club would divy up the membership fees, which are minimal, 80 bucks a year say... but somebody spends it, that's the administrative HIERARCHY.
Now the Hierarchy that my Masonic friends here seem to not be able to grasp is the Grand Poobahs. Yes it's democratic, but so is Iran for that matter. Grand Poobah, Operative Accacia Gnawing Knight of Ma Ha Bologna is going to have a little more pull than nodding winking joe blow blue lodger. It's basic sociology. Proven laws of Human behavior. Trying to say there is no Hierarchy in freemasonry is like trying to say that they all decided to wear lambskins and pointy hats that day. Get real. It's the original Pyramid Scheme, pun intended.

Originally posted by twitchy
Noe w the Hierarchy that my Masonic friends here seem to not be able to grasp is the Grand Poobahs. Yes it's democratic, but so is Iran for that matter. Grand Poobah, Operative Accacia Gnawing Knight of Ma Ha Bologna is going to have a little more pull than nodding winking joe blow blue lodger. It's basic sociology. Proven laws of Human behavior. Trying to say there is no Hierarchy in freemasonry is like trying to say that they all decided to wear lambskins and pointy hats that day. Get real. It's the original Pyramid Scheme, pun intended.

WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU!?!?!? Are you really THAT incapable of grasping the point? Your whole argument regarding hirearchy was based on authority determined by the degree of each mason! Based on THAT claim, I told you there is no such hirearchy. Now if you're talking about an administrative hirearchy, that's a different story. But as far as your claim regarding degrees goes, it's obvious that you were mistaken.

And additionally, there is no GRAND "POOBAH" in Freemasonry either. I'm sure a college man such as yourself can come up with a more descriptive word to use. There is a Grand Master for each Grand Lodge, in each masonic jurisdiction. There are several HUNDRED masonic jurisdictions throughout the world, with a Master and all other officers elected to one-year terms for each jurisdiction. Each officer is a 3rd degree Master Mason, elected by all Master Masons in the jurisdiction.

Each jurisdiction operates independently of the others, and can do whatever it wants. There is NO CENTRAL AUTHORITY IN FREEMASONRY, therefore there is NO CENTRAL HIREARCHY FOR THE ENTIRE FRATERNITY. Only for each jurisdiction.

So you can put THAT in your thespian pipe and smoke it


[edit on 28-5-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by twitchyGet real. It's the original Pyramid Scheme, pun intended.

Poor pun, as the pyramid is not used in craft masonry.

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Each jurisdiction operates independently of the others, and can do whatever it wants.

Well.... At least within the basic tenets of Freemasonry. I don't think they can say admit women in their jurisdiction.

Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Each jurisdiction operates independently of the others, and can do whatever it wants.

Well.... At least within the basic tenets of Freemasonry. I don't think they can say admit women in their jurisdiction.

If a lodge strays too far away from the basic "landmarks" of masonry, it risks losing it's recognition from other Grand Lodges, and all masons in that jurisdiction being classed as "irregular" or "clandestine" masons. The Grand Lodge of France did something like this when it began admitting atheists, and now all masons in France are considered irregular masons, and are not allowed the benefits of masonry in any other parts of the world.

Btw, My post was for clarification, not confrontation

And thanks for the French lodge info. That was something on the list of things related to Crowley I wanted to find out about, but I never ran across the info before.

Originally posted by CPYKOmega
Like I said earlier.... you didn't write that poem... so you have no frame of reference when it comes to poetry.

Pretty bold statement, seeing as you don't know me and have no idea what I'm capable of, or the things I have written in my time.

I have to admit that it is a good poem, but as to the "put that in my pipe and smoke it" comment you still don't get the point. You didn't write that poem yourself!!!

Never said I did; and you didn't say anything about me writing poetry, you said I "wouldn't know poetry if it bit me on the ass". Hardly the same thing. And if you want a poetry contest, well then let's have the topic, style, and a neutral judge and I'll hand your ass to you on a paper plate. If "33" is the best you can do, you'd better just move along.

You want me to quote some famous poetry with a glib remark as well? If so here it goes.

*snip*

So where's your glib remark? I must have missed it.

[edit on 5/28/05 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by Cug
Btw, My post was for clarification, not confrontation

And thanks for the French lodge info. That was something on the list of things related to Crowley I wanted to find out about, but I never ran across the info before.

Hehehe don't worry, i didnt think you were being confrontational! I think what you brought up was a good point, and was a chance for me to talk about how masonic jurisdictional recognition works.

Regarding Crowley, those tht claim he was a mason are wrong, because he was indeed initiated by "irregular" masons who had been initiated in France. They had no recognition from the Grand Lodge of England, which is what Crowley got into a big fight with them over. They refused to recognize him as a mason. I heard it put very eloquently one time. Someone said that Crowley was a mason, but not a Mason(tm).

Originally posted by sebatwerk
The Grand Lodge of France did something like this when it began admitting atheists, and now all masons in France are considered irregular masons, and are not allowed the benefits of masonry in any other parts of the world.

FYI - you are referring to the Grand Orient of France - the largest and oldest Grand Lodge in the country. The second largest, the Grand Lodge of France, is also irregular, but only because they recognise GoF and not for any other reason. The 3rd largest - Grand Lodge National Francais - is entirely regular and you can quite happily visit next time you're in France

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Regarding Crowley, those tht claim he was a mason are wrong, because he was indeed initiated by "irregular" masons who had been initiated in France. They had no recognition from the Grand Lodge of England, which is what Crowley got into a big fight with them over. They refused to recognize him as a mason. I heard it put very eloquently one time. Someone said that Crowley was a mason, but not a Mason(tm).

That quote was from me in an eloquent moment it was from a post I made about Crowley's masonic connections. And from what Trinityman posted it looks like he almost was a Mason(tm) (he was a member of Grande Loge de France which I assume is the one who was irregular because it recognized the Grand Orient of France).

You can thank your lucky stars it was the Grande Loge de France otherwise you would have to really deal with the antis. well scratch that, they still think he was a Mason(tm)

Originally posted by Trinityman
FYI - you are referring to the Grand Orient of France - the largest and oldest Grand Lodge in the country. The second largest, the Grand Lodge of France, is also irregular, but only because they recognise GoF and not for any other reason. The 3rd largest - Grand Lodge National Francais - is entirely regular and you can quite happily visit next time you're in France

Ah! I guess you learn something new every day! I was under the impression that France had only one Grand Lodge, the GoF, the Grand Lodge of France and Grand Lodge National Francais all being one and the same.

And I could care less if it happened to be that Crowley was indeed a real mason. Many men have been masons, from all walks of life and sometimes less than reputable men have made it past our West Gate. It still does not change the fact that Freemasonry is a great institution. It still amazes me that there's so many misinformed people, when there's so much legitimate, truthful and accurate information available for all who seek it.

Originally posted by sebatwerk
I was under the impression that France had only one Grand Lodge, the GoF, the Grand Lodge of France and Grand Lodge National Francais all being one and the same.

I think there's about 10 at the moment. Those Gallics!

Glad to see this thread has brought alot of brotherly love into this so called topic.

I just wish I could join in... when is the mock human sacrifice ritual??

Originally posted by CPYKOmega
Glad to see this thread has brought alot of brotherly love into this so called topic.

I just wish I could join in... when is the mock human sacrifice ritual??

I dunno I'll have to check the schedule... I'll get back to you.

So I take it you are declining?

P.S. Hard to love those who insult you and denigrate things that are important to you, and make assumptions about your abilities. Anyways, Whatever. I let you push my buttons, that's on me. The fact that you were trying to push them is on you.



[edit on 5/30/05 by The Axeman]

I apologize if I caused you guys any harm and I really mean it. I actually have been reading up about the masons. I just wanted to see what its like from your guys perspective. Being ridiculed for false accusations. I am truly sorry if I caused you any harm. It was fiendish, drama savvy, troll like behaviour. Now I realize what kind of crap you guys go through.

I, being of the receiving end of ridicule realize how hard it is to stand up for your virtues and beliefs when others are tearing your world down with lies and deceit.

I hope all of the free masons here will accept this apology. I never was the one to "hijack" a thread. I truly am sorry.


CPYKOmega