"Masonic" Handshakes and Other Nonsense...

Originally posted by twitchy

Now how about integrity? Look at the title of this thread, the implication is that the very notion of masonic handshakes is "nonsense"...

Actually, I can tell you exactly what the meaning of the title of this thread is, because I wrote it.

Notice if you will the quotation marks (that's these --> " ") around the word Masonic, implying that the handshakes referred to (that would be the ones posted in the pictures in the first post of this thread, authored by me) were not in fact, Masonic. The word "nonsense" (again, written by me) is indicative of the complete rubbish that can be found on every anti-Masonic website this side of google. I'm pretty sure I even said that... wait let me see... Yep. Said it:

Originally posted by The Axeman
It baffles me the lengths some people will go to make something of nothing.

OK so I have an idea. It will be peppered with dribble, I'm certain, but in the spirit of levity, let's make a thread of the most hilarious and far-fetched claims against Masonry we can find. Found a cuckoo site spreading stuff that just makes you want to laugh? Post it here.

THAT, my good man, is the "nonsense" referred to in the thread title.

Nowhere did I say that there aren't legitimate Masonic handshakes, that would be stupid, not to mention a flat out lie. What I did imply is that the particular pictures I posted were NOT Masonic (hence the quotation marks --> " "), and it made me laugh. People trying to make something out of nothing (hey, that sounds familiar... Oh wait! I said that in the original post! )

I intended for this thread to be a joke, a sort of collection of the anti-Masons' claims that just make Freemasons (and anyone who knows anything about Freemasonry) laugh, a thread where those of us that know and respect the fraternity could have a chuckle at some fundamentalist pinheads' expense. Sorry you didn't get it. Yes, levity. I guess you didn't look it up after all...

Originally posted by CPYKOmega
These masonic threads are a joke.

This particular thread was meant to be. I guess I did good then?

I am sick of them on ats.

Me too, in a way. But what can ya do?

The fellow masons on here do nothing but fight with the non-believers when in fact they should be ignoring them!

Yeah, that has worked really well so far. You say "fellow Masons"; are you a Mason? If so would you rather sit and let people be told lies about you with no one to set them straight?

For this I will be no longer posting in these so called masonic threads. Yes Sebatwerk this means you too.

Awwwwww... I feel left out.

Whille I'm not officially a Mason yet (though I have been told a man is a Mason in his heart first, in which case I guess I sort of am ), I feel like defending the fraternity against slanderous lies and ignorant dribble is a worthy cause, otherwise I wouldn't be spending my time here.

Sorry, but I am sick of reading through all this drama bull#!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sick of dealing with ignorant people who refuse to back up false claims, but someone has to do it. It is, as Seb said a few days ago, a thankless job. However, I believe it is an important one. I wouldn't be here if I didn't believe what I know about Freemasons and Freemasonry to be true. I don't like it when people lie about and insult my friends.

Well, so much for laughing, right? *sigh* I tried...

[edit on 5/26/05 by The Axeman]

Odd, I could have sworn the title of this thread was " "Masonic" Handshakes and OTHER Nonsense". Heh, maybe we both misunderstood then eh?

Wait, wait, wait... it only took you 26 minutes to go from this:

Originally posted by CPYKOmega
I'm glad you guys made this thread... as we need it for the "lighter side" of masonry.

To this?

Originally posted by CPYKOmega
These masonic threads are a joke. I am sick of them on ats...

Sorry, but I am sick of reading through all this drama bull#!!!!!!!!!!!

Dude, methinks you need a stiff drink and some fresh air. Relax. Take a load off...

[edit on 5/26/05 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by twitchy
Odd, I could have sworn the title of this thread was " "Masonic" Handshakes and OTHER Nonsense". Heh, maybe we both misunderstood then eh?

No, I understood you, but you still seem to be having trouble...

The "Masonic" handshake pictures I posted was one instance of nonsense, and then I left it open for OTHER nonsense as well, as there is plenty of it.

Take the Harry Potter crap for example. Do you really not get it or are you just trying to be difficult?

Jeez man, lighten up.

I'm not as uptight as I might seem, I'm just very outspoken and as I said before, without going into a great deal of detail, I don't like the dogma of keeping the Light a secret. The light belongs to all mankind. How many "witches" and "Pagans" burned for the same light while you guys met in great halls for the same purpose? Seriously. I am bound by no oaths, and I fear no evil, but I didn't need any membership dues and favors and accord to see the light, nobody does. Freemasonry isn't about the light at all, it's about you doing so and so a favor, and keeping it secret. That is how you build a power structure, that is how cornerstones get laid. That is the pyramid, the temple. It has jack to do with the Light and everything to do with extortion and exploitation.

Originally posted by twitchy

Originally posted by sabat-work
there is a hirearchy

Thank you.

Now admit there are handshakes and Zionism, and I'm done with ya.

First of all, don't quote me out of context. You know that I am arguing against your claim that degrees establish rank or authority. Can you admit that this claim is false?

Also, no mason here ever said we had no handshakes. This has already been established.

Originally posted by twitchy
Freemasonry isn't about the light at all, it's about you doing so and so a favor, and keeping it secret. That is how you build a power structure, that is how cornerstones get laid. That is the pyramid, the temple. It has jack to do with the Light and everything to do with extortion and exploitation.

That just goes to show how little you understand about Freemasonry.

It's not my place to try to convince you, I'm just here to set the record straight when lies are posted, and to try to have a good time doing so. I'm not a Mason, so your theory kind of doesn't apply to me. I'm not oath bound, either.

You have my respect (as you have for a long time, since your kosher thread; I even voted you way above for it) for your tenacity and sticking to your guns, but I do disagree with you on alot of issues. So be it. We don't all have to agree, and it does make for good conversation and boredom killer.

I do wish you would see past the lies to the truth about Freemasonry. I really truly do not believe it is as you think it is. You are, however, entitled to your opinion, as am I.

"degrees establish rank or authority"
LOL
Don't misquote me either. Degrees and Grand Lodges are two different things sabat-work. You have said over and over again that there is no hierarchy in Freemasonry, then you say, well except for the officers in an individual lodge, then you say the officers in a lodge and the grand lodges. Are you debating me here or conceeding my point degree by degree?
As a grand High Poobah 3rd degree, Can you go start your own lodge? No. Who do ask to do this? Someone who outranks you. The Higher ups. The Hierarchy. Spin it all you like, it is still a square.

Originally posted by The Axeman

Originally posted by twitchy
Freemasonry isn't about the light at all, it's about you doing so and so a favor, and keeping it secret. That is how you build a power structure, that is how cornerstones get laid. That is the pyramid, the temple. It has jack to do with the Light and everything to do with extortion and exploitation.

That just goes to show how little you understand about Freemasonry.

It's not my place to try to convince you, I'm just here to set the record straight when lies are posted, and to try to have a good time doing so. I'm not a Mason, so your theory kind of doesn't apply to me. I'm not oath bound, either.

You have my respect (as you have for a long time, since your kosher thread; I even voted you way above for it) for your tenacity and sticking to your guns, but I do disagree with you on alot of issues. So be it. We don't all have to agree, and it does make for good conversation and boredom killer.

I do wish you would see past the lies to the truth about Freemasonry. I really truly do not believe it is as you think it is. You are, however, entitled to your opinion, as am I.

Truth be known axeman, I just like to argue. Two years of debate, two years of public speaking, and 15 years of acting will do that to you man.

I don't like the dogma of keeping the Light a secret. The light belongs to all mankind. How many "witches" and "Pagans" burned for the same light while you guys met in great halls for the same purpose?

Freemasonry isn't about the light at all, it's about you doing so and so a favor, and keeping it secret.

Your claims are absolutely false! For the last time, the ONLY secrets we keep are our modes of recognition!

Furthermore, nobody has ever asked me or any other mason I know for special favors. That's totally absurd, no mason would expect to have to grant special favors to a brother! Period!

Lastly, ALL of the lessons that masonry teaches, in ANY degree, can be found in the Bible. Some secret...

Originally posted by sebatwerk

I don't like the dogma of keeping the Light a secret. The light belongs to all mankind. How many "witches" and "Pagans" burned for the same light while you guys met in great halls for the same purpose?

Freemasonry isn't about the light at all, it's about you doing so and so a favor, and keeping it secret.

Your claims are absolutely false! For the last time, the ONLY secrets we keep are our modes of recognition!

Furthermore, nobody has ever asked me or any other mason I know for special favors. That's totally absurd, no mason would expect to have to grant special favors to a brother! Period!

Lastly, ALL of the lessons that masonry teaches, in ANY degree, can be found in the Bible. Some secret...

You mean they didn't tell you what the signifigance of the Acacia plant was? Wow. You're still a layman then.

Originally posted by twitchy

As a grand High Poobah 3rd degree, Can you go start your own lodge? No. Who do ask to do this? Someone who outranks you. The Higher ups.

You would ask the officers of the grand lodge, who are also 3Rd degree masons! A mason must only be a master mason to be an officer of a lodge, even the grand lodge.

If I were a 32 degree mason, I would still need to ask the grand master, a 3Rd degree mason, for permission.

So for the last time, degrees do not establish ANY kind of position or authority. They mean absolutely sqwat! I am receiving 32 degrees in ONE DAY! And I will still be a regular member, under the jurisdiction of a 3Rd degree grand master.

So I am spinning absolutely nothing. I have aid that lodge officers are the only masona with a hierarchy from day one. YOU claimed that degrees established rank and had a hierarchy, now YOU ARE SPINNING YOUR CLAIMS to make it seem like you were referring to masonry in general, when in reality you were only claiming that masonic DEGREES had a hierarchy!

You are a typical troll, changing your claim as soon as someone tears it to shreds.

Sabat-work, Listen to yourself, you're sitting there telling me that that you have to have the permission from the grand lodge, then claim in the same breath they are your equal. Permission/equal... Degrees, Shriners, Poobahs, whatever you want to call it, you answer to somebody, period. What thell kind of organization doesn't have a hierarchy? The first two degrees are lower than a third degree, that is a hierarchy. Step UP to Grand Lodges verses Joe Blow Lodges, Hierarchy. Christ man, buy a theasarus. Look up Head Honcho, cohceese, or Poobah. You gonna tell your worshipful master to sit down? Get real. Reality. The negative connotation of freemasonry is the fault of people like you who have a poor understanding of the functionality their own esotericism. Operative, speculative, I'm sure the difference in the two has nothing to do with structure eh?

Hierarchy.

You have voted twitchy for the Way Above Top Secret award.

Now thats what im talking about !

I have used up all my votes this month, but I am voting you for the way above top secret award next month twitchy. I also hope you win a spot on the new council as I voted for you in the current voting process! Keep it up!

You have voted twitchy for the Way Above Top Secret award.

Salute to the juggler.

Originally posted by The Axeman

Originally posted by CPYKOmega
These masonic threads are a joke.

This particular thread was meant to be. I guess I did good then?

I am sick of them on ats.

Me too, in a way. But what can ya do?

The fellow masons on here do nothing but fight with the non-believers when in fact they should be ignoring them!

Yeah, that has worked really well so far.

You say "fellow Masons"; are you a Mason? If so would you rather sit and let people be told lies about you with no one to set them straight?

For this I will be no longer posting in these so called masonic threads. Yes Sebatwerk this means you too.

Awwwwww... I feel left out.

Whille I'm not officially a Mason yet (though I have been told a man is a Mason in his heart first, in which case I guess I sort of am

), I feel like defending the fraternity against slanderous lies and ignorant dribble is a worthy cause, otherwise I wouldn't be spending my time here.

Sorry, but I am sick of reading through all this drama bull#!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sick of dealing with ignorant people who refuse to back up false claims, but someone has to do it. It is, as Seb said a few days ago, a thankless job. However, I believe it is an important one. I wouldn't be here if I didn't believe what I know about Freemasons and Freemasonry to be true. I don't like it when people lie about and insult my friends.

Well, so much for laughing, right? *sigh* I tried...

[edit on 5/26/05 by The Axeman]

Well If you need to know I was starting to like this thread. Until Sebatwerk here turned it into a soap opera just like every other thread. It was a humorous thread.. until you 2 ruined it.... yet again.

You claim to be true masons, yet true masons are supposed to keep their mouths shut when dealing with people who oppose you. I know you will respond with a "clever" remark, but I don't care.

This is what you will probably say. "You have no clue what masonry entails... if you did you wouldn't post this sort of thing... blah blah...."

If you truly are masons and care about not only yourselves, but the entire community as a whole... then you should help people... that is the true nature of what real free masons are. To help and to guide people into the right direction. Your current "power trip" regarding masonry and all of your egocentric remarks, show us what your true inner soul really thinks of the world.

I am glad that you tried to make a thread that was humorous.... but just like you have said in your own words... you have failed.

I don't usually get this mad about something on ATS, but I had to say what I really though of these masonic threads.



Regarding if someone called my mother a slut.. as mentioned earlier in this thread. I would calmly talk to the person telling them to stop. But I fail to see how that analogy applies to this thread.

You 2 should read my poem entitled 33 here on ATS in the Collaborative Fiction section.... I know you guys would like it.

I was the Past Master of My Lodge in 2003
I have been the SECRETary of my lodge sense then (including now).
This year I have a position with the Grand Lodge of Colorado AF&AM.
I do see myself as being the Right Worshipful Grand Master of Colorado, within a decade.
I am a 3rd degree Mason ("A Master Mason"), I haven’t, tak’n the additional degrees, ‘n don't see myself take'n them for another 20-30 years.

Twitchy... this is especially for you!
ANY Master mason can take all of the remaining 32 degrees the day after he becomes a Master Masons. In fact we have several members in my lodge that went from 1st degree (Entered Apprentice) to 32 degree in 3 days. Just because they are a 32 degree mason in 3 days doesn't get them elected as "chairman of the board", and definitely doesn't give them any more power over me, any Officer, or any other member. In fact they tend ta lean on us when we do go ta Grand Lodge, as they have never been there, 'n not sure of the Parliamentary Procedures.

Tell me…
If a member of the chess club, also studied in checkers, does he have more POWER over the chess club then the president of the chess club?

Originally posted by twitchy
Sabat-work, Listen to yourself, you're sitting there telling me that that you have to have the permission from the grand lodge, then claim in the same breath they are your equal. Permission/equal... Degrees, Shriners, Poobahs, whatever you want to call it, you answer to somebody, period. What thell kind of organization doesn't have a hierarchy? The first two degrees are lower than a third degree, that is a hierarchy. Step UP to Grand Lodges verses Joe Blow Lodges, Hierarchy. Christ man, buy a theasarus. Look up Head Honcho, cohceese, or Poobah. You gonna tell your worshipful master to sit down? Get real. Reality. The negative connotation of freemasonry is the fault of people like you who have a poor understanding of the functionality their own esotericism. Operative, speculative, I'm sure the difference in the two has nothing to do with structure eh?

Let's see if you can understand this just one last time. a 32nd degree mason IS NO HIGHER than a 3rd degree mason! Sure, it's a higher number, but there is no purpose to that! It's a category system! A higher degree number does NOT mean the degree is higher ranking! Look at the appendant Scottish Rite degrees. They don't even have numbers, just names! Why, because THEY ARE ALL DIFFERENT, INDEPENDENT DEGREES. They all have a different theme, with different lessons taught! One degree does not elaborate on the previous one, etc.

So when you talk about a hirearchy in advanced degrees, I tell you there is no such thing because most masons receive ALL the degrees in one day! There's no time to be an 18th degree mason, or 28th degree mason, because a mason goes from being a 3rd degree master mason (the HIGHEST possible degree in Craft Masonry) to being a 32nd degree mason IN ONE DAY! How is it possible to have a hirearchy of degrees, when the majority of masons are all the same degree!?!?

Now on to a "structural hirearchy" in Freemasonry. I never said there was no such thing. I merely said that there is only a hirearchy AMONG THE LODGE'S OFFICERS! But degrees have NOTHING to do with being a lodge officer. You simply have to hold the highest degree in Freemasonry, the Master Mason degree! Once you are a 3rd degree Master Mason, you can do the same things in the fraternity as a 32nd degree mason! How would this be possible if degrees denote rank or position?

The lodge's officers are the ones that run the lodge, and the Grand Lodge's officers are the ones that run the Grand lodge under which local lodges are chartered. ANY officers in ANY lodge must be a 3rd degree mason. The Grand Master of California, a 3rd degree mason, has authority over ALL masons in the state, including 33rd degree masons!

Officer position denotes position and purpose in the fraternity. And, among officer positions, degree still doesn't matter. The master of a lodge can be a 3rd degree mason, and his wardens can be 32nd degree masons. He still has a higher position than them. DEGREES DONT MEAN ANYTHING. If you are not an officer, then you are simply a member. And ALL members in the fraternity, regardless of degree, are equal. You cannot argue with this, because it is simple fact.

I hope you can understand that I never meant there was absolutely no hirearchy in the fraternity, only that there is no hirearchy between degrees. You can take what I said and twist it up to try to make me look like a jackass all you want, but it doesn't take a genius to go back and read the succession of posts between you and I on this subject. I have always been very clear about what I claim, taking that out of context makes YOU look like the jackass.

Fin.


[edit on 26-5-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by CPYKOmega
Well If you need to know I was starting to like this thread. Until Sebatwerk here turned it into a soap opera just like every other thread. It was a humorous thread.. until you 2 ruined it.... yet again.

Actually the ones who ruined it are the ones who came in with the lies and accusations, as always.

You claim to be true masons, yet true masons are supposed to keep their mouths shut when dealing with people who oppose you.

Can you show me where this is written? Can you point me to the page in the Freemason's handbook that states we should keep quiet when dealinng with people like this? I guess I must not be a TRUE MASON, since I am only defending myself and my fraternity. But a true mason would just allow people to slander the fraternity, and take it in the rear? Please.

If you truly are masons and care about not only yourselves, but the entire community as a whole... then you should help people... that is the true nature of what real free masons are. To help and to guide people into the right direction. Your current "power trip" regarding masonry and all of your egocentric remarks, show us what your true inner soul really thinks of the world.

Actually, I help MANY people. I volunteer about one weekend per month for various events around my community (Redondo Beach, CA). I've donated THOUSANDS of dollars to worthy charities, through my lodge so that I would not be named as a benefactor. What have YOU done to help anyone?

What's more, I help people here on ATS. You have no idea how many guys have sent me messages thanking me for showing them the truth about Freemasonry, and changing their lives for giving them interest in joining. Again, what have YOU done? Your "holier than thou" attitude belies a very empty purpose in your claims.

Regarding if someone called my mother a slut.. as mentioned earlier in this thread. I would calmly talk to the person telling them to stop. But I fail to see how that analogy applies to this thread.

And do you think that we have not calmly posted back to these claims, with proof, logic, and evidence? We're sick of doing that, then being told that nothinng we say can be trusted because we are masons and sworn to lie about the fraternity! It's complete BS, and we're sick of it! These are the same people who we have shown SOLID EVIDENCE to many times, and they keep makinng the same claims! Now, we're sick of it, and fighting back.

You 2 should read my poem entitled 33 here on ATS in the Collaborative Fiction section.... I know you guys would like it.

Send us the link?