Should we look for the truth, or just let it go?

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: chr0naut

Your ranting and raving makes People wonder if you are actually an American. Hmmmm 😊

The answers to many US political dilemmas have been solved for decades in many countries around the world, but the US is mired immovably in 200 year old statute. Everything, even Constitutional change, must be fully compliant with laws written before the steam engine.

There's a gun problem in the US, but you can't do anything about it.

There are electoral and democracy problems, but the US can't do anything about them.

Other countries try and keep the good things about the past, and loose the bad. But the US can't let go. The only hope is in contradictions and fuzzy language in the Constitution that allow for alternate interpretation. It didn't used to be like that. They made changes and additions all the time, but now the supes say "strike that, not compliant with..."

originally posted by: chr0naut

If debt can be slowed and GDP continue to rise, the economic outcome will improve.

One problem. There is interest on the national debt where there is still borrowing.

Interest payments on the national debt top $1 trillion as deficit swells

www.cnbc.com...

Where inflation needs to be reigned in.

originally posted by: chr0naut

There's a gun problem in the US, but you can't do anything about it.

There is a violent crime problem from Soros backed DA’s that ignore violent crimes, with little consequences for offenders, open borders, and the flow of fentanyl from china.

Why are we still trading with China after covid? Why are vital defense components made in China.

There is lots the past US government has F’d up. If the US fails, it’s because the constitution was ignored and trampled on, and Liberty sold out to crony capitalism.

a reply to: chr0naut

All of your comparisons are just junk about the US election system. The US is made up of different states, or mini countries if you will. All with different values and population size. We use the electoral college to try and migrate large population centers drowning out the outlying areas. For instance NY went mostly red except for NYC, Albany and a few other counties. First blush because Kamala won the state was that she strongly won it. Not quite. But in NY it is winner take all. So she got those votes from the electoral college. But even in allegedly blue NY she was not that popular.

one thing I can say after seeing the back and Forth -




Two types - one outnumbers the other





VS



And in my Eyes Freedom is Winning - Keep Going - The BEST is Yet To Come

a reply to: chr0naut

I invite you -- if you are truly willing to seek the truth, and ONLY if you are truly willing to seek the truth -- to go to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics and compare employment from Mr. Obama's two terms, to Mr. Trump's one term, to Mr. Biden's one term.

Then, for further enlightment, go to the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis and compare the same above Presidential administrations. This will take a bit of work and research within those two links, but a person who truly wants to know the truth will be diligent in their search for relative data.

Do not cherry pick data which you want to reflect your position, because I will come back with the whole picture. I am a research bear, and enjoy it. You don't need to post your findings here. I want this for you, so you can truly understand why Donald Trump was elected. Who voted for Donald Trump? The working class, those who buy groceries, and fuel and wonder why we have homeless citizens while immigrants are being imported that didn't have to go through the arduous process of legal immigration are being given housing and debit cards. Those people.

You're welcome.

originally posted by: hangedman13
a reply to: chr0naut

Well after four years of unchecked illegal immigration, speech suppression, a disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan and the cherry on top, after that unrestrained debt pouring billions into the Ukraine. We didn't see any course corrections that improved anything. We are not scrutinizing Trumps last term, that ended four years ago. Everything now is looking at what those who replaced him did or didn't do and it was found to be seriously lacking!

The border apprehensions have not stopped over 4 years. DHS say that 2.8 million people have been removed or expelled over that time.

Almost no speech has been supressed. People who have been deplatformed simply go elsewhere, and usually make a big thing of it. So what. Was what they had to say that important, or even true? I've got no idea. Probably you don't either.

Afghanistan was a disaster when the Russians left, too. Actually, why was the US killing people in Afghanistan? What advantage, other than opium poppies, and the PR of hitting back at a country supposedly involved in 911, was there? Honestly, the US had no right to be there and Afghanistan probably had less involvement in 911 than Saudi Arabia did. They were just perceived as a weak target by a bully state with an insecurity complex.

Ukraine is the breadbasket of Europe in terms of cereal crops. Loss of Ukraine would be an economic catastrophe to NATO countries. The trade balance between Ukraine and the US is $130 million per year in the US's favour. The $69 billion military-aid over the last four years represents about $17.25 billion a year, which is only 0.062% of US GDP and gives the US an economic stronghold in Europe beyond that of the NATO countries.

The downturn in the US economy clearly began before Trump had left office. In some regards, Biden's administration has recovered the economic situation over the last 4 years, even though COVID was still a 'hot' pandemic at the start of the administration.

a reply to: chr0naut

By the Dawn's Early Light 😀

originally posted by: hangedman13
a reply to: chr0naut

All of your comparisons are just junk about the US election system. The US is made up of different states, or mini countries if you will. All with different values and population size. We use the electoral college to try and migrate large population centers drowning out the outlying areas. For instance NY went mostly red except for NYC, Albany and a few other counties. First blush because Kamala won the state was that she strongly won it. Not quite. But in NY it is winner take all. So she got those votes from the electoral college. But even in allegedly blue NY she was not that popular.

Read the Federalist Papers 54–55. The Electoral College mechanism had its genesis in the 3/5ths compromise and slavery. It's still in the Constitution:

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

a reply to: network dude

If the worlds governments are in collusion to bring about a depopulation event, then all we are seeing is theatre to reach this aim. Putin XI trump Biden . This seems to be the stage where the people are waking up so bring in Trump to make it look like things will change. This will be the last stage because the main players will not punish themselves for what they have done.
The world economies are in a real crisis with massive layoffs in many sectors, traditional food areas are becoming non productive, many countries in Europe Germany Spain France the UK are having massive protests against there present governments. Trump is making a peace with regards to Ukraine, as the middle East becomes the final battle which will disrupt energy supplies . This situation is becoming a Poly crisis brought about by government policy which will eventually cost even more lives. Covid and lockdowns were the start , severe censorship of correct information are secondary, Trump being father of the Fastrack, would be the right person to be the figurehead of the endgame, he will be able to wear the crown of saviour, for a lot longer than anyone else, as it has been scripted this way .
Will there be justice? is a mute point as all projections for the immediate future suggest the populations of the world will have more pressing concerns to worry about.

I think Trump should follow up on one item....


I'd get a special counsel to investigate exactly what was said between the WH and the various DA's that were known to have been involved. The whole thing smells. Badly.

a reply to: network dude

I haven't read everything here yet, but Biden's speech in the Rose Garden the other day about a peaceful transition of power was the most coherent I've heard him be in years. Something was going on with the dementia thing because if he had good days and bad, he probably had the best day he was going to have for the rest of his days.

originally posted by: chr0naut

The downturn in the US economy clearly began before Trump had left office.

You mean the lockdowns because of Covid, with democrat lead states and cities having some of the most stringent lockdowns and restrictions who could work. And what could be produced.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: tjack
Nobody is above the law amirite?

Not even the President elect.

And any attempt to pardon themselves is corruption, pure and simple.

if you wish to comment on US things, you might want to educate yourself on US things. Like the Constitution. Start with finding the part where a president can't pardon himself and go from there.

Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 places the President above the law. It is political corruption written into the US Constitution from the get-go.

Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 also contradicts the Presidential pledge of office, and Article II, Section 3 of the Constitution.

Even under Article II, Section 2, Clause 1, the President cannot grant any pardon without the specific written advice of the principal officers of the executive departments. Nor can the President pardon themselves from an impeachment.

Presidential pardons dilute the balance of the judicial branch to make lawful judgement and that of Congress to enact binding laws.

Yep, so if need be, Trump can pardon himself. Now you might start to grasp this.

But if some other political leader had committed crimes, and then pardoned themselves through political power and influence, would that mean that they didn't commit those crimes?

I mean, what's to stop someone in that position from lying, cheating, stealing, murder, and etc, then they just say, nah, I'm all good, I pardon myself. Do you think that isn't obvious corruption?

Impeachment would stop them. You would also need to CONVICT them during the impeachment.

originally posted by: Lazy88

originally posted by: chr0naut

If debt can be slowed and GDP continue to rise, the economic outcome will improve.

One problem. There is interest on the national debt where there is still borrowing.

Interest payments on the national debt top $1 trillion as deficit swells

www.cnbc.com...

Where inflation needs to be reigned in.

Inflation is necessary for growth, but if you do not limit inflation to a reasonable rate, then things fall apart.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: hangedman13
a reply to: chr0naut

All of your comparisons are just junk about the US election system. The US is made up of different states, or mini countries if you will. All with different values and population size. We use the electoral college to try and migrate large population centers drowning out the outlying areas. For instance NY went mostly red except for NYC, Albany and a few other counties. First blush because Kamala won the state was that she strongly won it. Not quite. But in NY it is winner take all. So she got those votes from the electoral college. But even in allegedly blue NY she was not that popular.

Read the Federalist Papers 54–55. The Electoral College mechanism had its genesis in the 3/5ths compromise and slavery. It's still in the Constitution:

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

No it isn't "still in the Constitution".😀 You've been pressing this for a few weeks now and sneak it in when ever you can. 😁 And you never did show any examples of where it is still used.

In the United States Constitution, the Three-fifths Compromise is part of Article 1, Section 2, Clause 3. Section 2 of the Fourteenth Amendment (1868) later superseded this clause and explicitly repealed the compromise.


Three-fifths Compromise

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: chr0naut

[bLord have mercy, what is all that rant, don't you get it? Trump won the elections, popular and electoral, get over it, before you get a break down and your brain melts away, if you are an American you know what all that means.

Give it up, get over it, you will be a lot healthier.

I am not doubting that Trump won.

I was responding to another poster in this thread, about the advantages and disadvantages of compulsory voting. Perhaps if you click on their name in my post, you could have a better idea of the context when their post pops up.

Also, suggesting that someone must be an American to be able to properly understand the American situation, is laughable.

wildly off topic. Go sh!t in your own thread, or stay on topic.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Lazy88

originally posted by: chr0naut

If debt can be slowed and GDP continue to rise, the economic outcome will improve.

One problem. There is interest on the national debt where there is still borrowing.

Interest payments on the national debt top $1 trillion as deficit swells

www.cnbc.com...

Where inflation needs to be reigned in.

Inflation is necessary for growth, but if you do not limit inflation to a reasonable rate, then things fall apart.

How is inflation above 3 percent signs of a healthy economy?

What are you, like 12 years old.

originally posted by: argentus
a reply to: chr0naut

I invite you -- if you are truly willing to seek the truth, and ONLY if you are truly willing to seek the truth -- to go to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics and compare employment from Mr. Obama's two terms, to Mr. Trump's one term, to Mr. Biden's one term.

From the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics data:

Clearly, Trump's unemployment peak is well within his term of office and it also happens to be the highest unemployment figure since 1948 (you can check on the official site).

Since Trump is so famous for his hyperbole, I'll copy his modus operandi and suggest that 'unemployment under Trump was probably the worst in American history!'



Also, all Bidens figures are lower than Trump's similar figures in regard to unemployment.

Then, for further enlightment, go to the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis and compare the same above Presidential administrations. This will take a bit of work and research within those two links, but a person who truly wants to know the truth will be diligent in their search for relative data.

OK, I have been to the official BEA site, but it is hard to find easy access historical data for comparison. It's like someone doesn't want direct comparison? LOL.

Anyway, here's some summary stats that I have graphed in a spreadsheet:

This looks to me that GDP growth rate, through most of Trump's term, was basically the same as Obama's, until the pandemic hit, and then growth went negative. In terms of recovery, though, the slope is greater after, and this pretty much continues for all of Bidens term. Can't see any sign of Biden doing anything wrong in this graph.

So, perhaps people had bigger incomes?:

Hmm, nothing really stands out there, does it. Perhaps the slight lift in the slope post-pandemic was the 'specialness'? Wasn't much, was it?

Perhaps people in the US had more buying power? More bang for the buck, so to speak.

Well there was little up-tick post-pandemic, but that is probably balanced by the shallower growth preceding it. But look at how things took off under Biden! Hmm, still not seeing a Trump 'economic miracle', though.

Perhaps government were absorbing all the money?

OK, there it is, but, wait, it starts under Trump's administration! D'oh!

Oh, wait, weren't protective tariffs supposed to boost up the economy, by protecting US industries and gouging as much as possible from overseas. Lets look at trade:

What? Trump was going backwards on money/value from trade? LOL.

Do not cherry pick data which you want to reflect your position, because I will come back with the whole picture. I am a research bear, and enjoy it. You don't need to post your findings here.

Well, I did post what I found. They are all linear graphs of absolute numbers, no cherry picking. Trump was unremarkable to bad in his economic performance.

I want this for you, so you can truly understand why Donald Trump was elected.

Sorry, I'm no clearer on why people may want this potato of a person.

The only reason is possibly that the people haven't done the work, and have just believed the lies.

While the US economy was in the process of falling apart, Trump consistently lied that all was great and that any problem was caused by everyone else. He was the President of the USA!

I used to be able to get data easily on the US economy, but it all suddenly evaporated in the public sphere, about the time of Trump's first 'State of the Nation' address. Pelosi probably ripped up that speech because it was a stack of exaggerations and downright lies. The data we have now shows that his address then was rubbish.

Who voted for Donald Trump? The working class, those who buy groceries, and fuel and wonder why we have homeless citizens while immigrants are being imported that didn't have to go through the arduous process of legal immigration are being given housing and debit cards.

The total number of homeless people in the USA was trending downwards until Trump. Perhaps you should look at the statistics instead of believing the rhetoric.

Those people.

You're welcome.

When I was younger, I heard the adage that "Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results". The American people have just re-elected Trump.

LOL.

My guess, based on the fact that he is still saying the same things that he said back in 2015-2016, is that he will do the same things in future, for the same reasons, and he will screw-up those same things in the same ways he did before.

Clearly, we all know that Trump could not possibly say "I was wrong, I made a mistake". He totally believes that whatever he makes up is the truth, and that if people disagree, it is because they are wrong. That type of person cannot learn, especially from their mistakes. They are fated to keep tilting at windmills forever (which in Trump's case is more than passingly ironic).

I wonder how he'll try and overstay his mandate again? Perhaps he'll have some 'notional emergency' that he can't leave anyone else to sort out, because he is so 'special'?

Trump is just as human as anyone else.

Here's my 2¢, remove all statutes of limitations on criminal charges filed for anything election crime related.
Make any election related crimes for senior government officials and all elected officials High Treason.
All others face a minimum of 10 year jail time and loss of US Citizenship.
I think people would start coming out of the wood works to sign plea deals and turn state evidence.