Should we look for the truth, or just let it go?

There have been a few things that happened over the last few years that look really suspect. The answers we might find if we look hard enough could be massive, and take many in power down. I'm going to list a few of them, and please don't go off on a tangent of defending them or litigating them here, the point I'm trying to make and the question I'm trying to ask is, should we dig into all this, or would it be counter productive and not help the future? I feel like I can make arguments for both sides of that, which is why I bring up the question.

The 2020 election, and fraud allegations that surround it. Some new data showing the voting habits of the public at large, seem to point to some validity in the election fraud charges. Perhaps there was no fraud, and it's all just a wild anomaly. Again, not asking to litigate this.

Joe Biden selling influence to the highest bidder. There is plenty of evidence showing this could be a real thing, but as Joe Biden is not going to be the president, and is too old and senile to be a real political threat in the future.

The coverup of Joe Biden's senility and condition by almost everyone in the democratic party. This isn't debatable, only deciding if digging into it is prudent.

So the first one, the 2020 election, It's over. I think overall, the combination of that happening, coupled with the wild far left policies Biden's admin pushed, gave Trump a much better situation than he would have had, had he won in 2020. So in reality, worrying about it now is largely pointless.

But then you factor in Jan 6th. The massive push to use that to claim Trump is a dictator or some form of Fascist. If it was proven there was fraud in the election, and the security for the Jan 6th rally was intentionally sabotaged, to get the desired result, it could upend the democratic party even more than they are now, and take out some major players. I don't know if that would be good. Bad things happen in a vacuum. So while I'd really like to find the truth (and hope that the truth is the version I have in my head), I'm not sure it's worth fighting that battle.

The next two are connected. His senility is real. It's probably not as bad as some on the right portray it as, but it's real. I suspect he has "good days and bad days". Anyone who has spent time with an elder who was suffering from dementia or another age related illness knows how this works. But the selling influence happened before he got senile. Using his kid for the bag man, while he was deeply addicted to crack, all happened. And I suspect Biden isn't the only one who did this/is doing this. And no, I doubt it's only on the left.

The argument against this is largely the same. Joe will be out of office soon and have no more influence. Not sure if we would find a much bigger can of worms that we wanted, or could handle. Not sure if the end result would be counter productive to the future.

Conversely, if we just "let this one go", we are giving tacit approval for this to continue. We can't take the chance of having China or another nation simply buy the politicians they need to get their agenda done. From their perspective, it's a bargain, and I don't begrudge them for trying, but as the guy on the receiving end of all that, I don't like it.

I have learned over the years that making knee jerk reactions usually makes you look like a jerk. It's a bad idea. Putting some thought into the actions BEFORE they take place can save a lot of mistakes later. Having vision for the future, and understanding newtons third law has proven to be a help. Action reaction. What will certain things bring about, and if they are bad, how hard will it be to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

So if you care to discuss this all, I hope we can all have this talk, both left, right, and foreign, and see if some great thinkers can make this make sense.

NEVER FORGET

Time for the Trials ....

Nobody is above the law amirite?

a reply to: tjack

That one needs to be kept in the bag for a bit. Once the teeth gnashing starts to reach a fever pitch, bring out the montage of all those screaming "nobody is above the law!!", and make them realize they can't have it both ways.

Calculated steps.

a reply to: network dude

Sure, baby steps and by the book, I'm good with that. It can't become vindictive and should be handled in parallel, by the right top talent, and not become a distraction from all the important POSITIVE work needing done.

originally posted by: tjack
a reply to: network dude

Sure, baby steps and by the book, I'm good with that. It can't become vindictive and should be handled in parallel, by the right top talent, and not become a distraction from all the important POSITIVE work needing done.

But that brings us back to the OP and the original question. Should we?

originally posted by: tjack
Nobody is above the law amirite?

Not even the President elect. And any attempt to pardon themselves or others already convicted is corruption, pure and simple.

This should be retroactive for all people who have been in public office and are still alive, but once they have been acquitted in court, they should not be re-tried unless new hard evidence comes to light (not empty allegation).

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: tjack
Nobody is above the law amirite?

Not even the President elect.

And any attempt to pardon themselves is corruption, pure and simple.

if you wish to comment on US things, you might want to educate yourself on US things. Like the Constitution. Start with finding the part where a president can't pardon himself and go from there.

a reply to: network dude

There's nothing to pardon.

I as an American citizen feel this election was about leveling the playing field and getting a sense of normality back to our everyday lives. Reading news day in and day out about insider trading, pay to play, weaponizing of government departments has taken a toll on the psyche of this great nation.

If we hold no one accountable then the ball will continue to roll along the same path.

Return the ill gotten gains back to the people, reform the system. Place a level on the ground so that all can see they are on the same path.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: tjack
Nobody is above the law amirite?

Not even the President elect.

And any attempt to pardon themselves is corruption, pure and simple.

if you wish to comment on US things, you might want to educate yourself on US things. Like the Constitution. Start with finding the part where a president can't pardon himself and go from there.

Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 places the President above the law. It is political corruption written into the US Constitution from the get-go.

Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 also contradicts the Presidential pledge of office, and Article II, Section 3 of the Constitution.

Even under Article II, Section 2, Clause 1, the President cannot grant any pardon without the specific written advice of the principal officers of the executive departments. Nor can the President pardon themselves from an impeachment.

Presidential pardons dilute the balance of the judicial branch to make lawful judgement and that of Congress to enact binding laws.

If I may quote Mrs. Clinton, If they find out we'll all hang!a reply to: montybd

a reply to: chr0naut

Not So fast ....

The Supreme Court and the president’s pardon power

The Supreme Court has made clear that, subject to the exception for impeachment, the president’s power to grant pardons is “unlimited,” with virtually no oversight or limiting role for Congress. In Ex parte Garland, which involved President Andrew Johnson’s pardon of a lawyer who had served in the legislature of the Confederacy, the court indicated that the president’s pardon power covers all federal offenses. The president can issue a pardon at any point after a crime is committed and before, during or after criminal proceedings have taken place. The president cannot, however, pardon someone for future crimes. A pardon covers both the offender’s conviction for the crime and the sentence for that crime.

The Supreme Court has not weighed in on the question whether Trump can pardon himself. In a memorandum dated Aug. 5, 1974 – less than a week before President Richard Nixon resigned – acting Assistant Attorney General Mary Lawton of the Department of Justice’s Office of Legal Counsel concluded that the answer is no. The memorandum left open the possibility of two work-arounds, however: Congress could pardon the president

Next Administration is holding a Royal Flush

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: tjack
Nobody is above the law amirite?

Not even the President elect. And any attempt to pardon themselves or others already convicted is corruption, pure and simple.

This should be retroactive for all people who have been in public office and are still alive, but once they have been acquitted in court, they should not be re-tried unless new hard evidence comes to light (not empty allegation).

"Any attempt to pardon themselves or others already convicted is corruption"...

NO that is totally ignorant bullsh## for you to say that. Lots of people historically have been wrongly convicted, some of murder even. Pardoning someone wrongly convicted is not corruption. As others mention, you could really benefit by getting even a basic education before embarrassing yourself here.

And Trump was absolutely wrongfully convicted by these kangaroo courts all instigated and brought to bear by Obama and the Biden admin lackeys who already have a long history behind them of sabotaging Donald Trump.

And the American people agree in large numbers and they said "No More" when Trump just won the election.

The courts and prosecutors attacking Trump is where the corruption is. Ignoring the constitution, the supremacy clause, and the bill of rights just to attack political opponents is where the real corruption is. That's what Jack Smith is doing. It's what the corrupt judges have been doing. It's what the "Fat Ass" has been doing. And it is all dead in the water. You did the same thing after the phony impeachments too by referring to Trump as the "twice impeached president" as if that was some kind of powerful weapon you wielded.

None of the convictions against Trump are valid in the slightest. You trying to use it like a sword of justice against him is invalid, the same as all these phony prosecutors and judges. The American people on November 5th have just rendered them all invalid.


You can continue spitting and fuming, but that's all it is, and it exposes YOUR corruption.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: tjack
Nobody is above the law amirite?

Not even the President elect.

And any attempt to pardon themselves is corruption, pure and simple.

if you wish to comment on US things, you might want to educate yourself on US things. Like the Constitution. Start with finding the part where a president can't pardon himself and go from there.

Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 places the President above the law. It is political corruption written into the US Constitution from the get-go.

Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 also contradicts the Presidential pledge of office, and Article II, Section 3 of the Constitution.

Even under Article II, Section 2, Clause 1, the President cannot grant any pardon without the specific written advice of the principal officers of the executive departments. Nor can the President pardon themselves from an impeachment.

Presidential pardons dilute the balance of the judicial branch to make lawful judgement and that of Congress to enact binding laws.

Yep, so if need be, Trump can pardon himself. Now you might start to grasp this.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

You can continue spitting and fuming, but that's all it is, and it exposes YOUR corruption.

He doesn't have any corruption, he lives in a tiny country surrounded by water. To say he's out of touch would be a large compliment. But his inane ramblings usually do provide some great entertainment.

originally posted by: montybd
I as an American citizen feel this election was about leveling the playing field and getting a sense of normality back to our everyday lives. Reading news day in and day out about insider trading, pay to play, weaponizing of government departments has taken a toll on the psyche of this great nation.

If we hold no one accountable then the ball will continue to roll along the same path.

Return the ill gotten gains back to the people, reform the system. Place a level on the ground so that all can see they are on the same path.

That is a good argument for why we need to dig into this. If we don't, we are begging for more of it. If we punish those responsible, them perhaps folks will finally find that bad behavior does in fact come with consequences.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: tjack
Nobody is above the law amirite?

Not even the President elect. And any attempt to pardon themselves or others already convicted is corruption, pure and simple.

This should be retroactive for all people who have been in public office and are still alive, but once they have been acquitted in court, they should not be re-tried unless new hard evidence comes to light (not empty allegation).

"Any attempt to pardon themselves or others already convicted is corruption"...

NO that is totally ignorant bullsh## for you to say that. Lots of people historically have been wrongly convicted, some of murder even. Pardoning someone wrongly convicted is not corruption.

And there is procedure and proper legal process for retrial. A Presidential pardon has no judge, jury, or evaluation of evidence.

And Trump was absolutely wrongfully convicted by these kangaroo courts all instigated and brought to bear by Obama and the Biden admin lackeys who already have a long history behind them of sabotaging Donald Trump.

But the courts can only rule in accordance with established law and based upon hard evidence. Media reporting, not so.

And the American people agree in large numbers and they said "No More" when Trump just won the election.

The opinions of the people have been manipulated. I don't think anyone denies this.

The courts and prosecutors attacking Trump is where the corruption is. Ignoring the constitution, the supremacy clause, and the bill of rights just to attack political opponents is where the real corruption is. That's what Jack Smith is doing. It's what the corrupt judges have been doing. It's what the "Fat Ass" has been doing. And it is all dead in the water. You did the same thing after the phony impeachments too by referring to Trump as the "twice impeached president" as if that was some kind of powerful weapon you wielded.

Trump has been impeached.

Somehow, under Trump's Presidency, impeachment no longer seems to mean anything.

The Supremacy clause does not grant supremacy over the law to the President. It grants supremacy to Federal law over State laws.

Congress creates Federal law, and the Judiciary makes determinations based upon those laws (except in the case of impeachment, where judicial determination falls to Congress).

None of the convictions against Trump are valid in the slightest. You trying to use it like a sword of justice against him is invalid, the same as all these phony prosecutors and judges. The American people on November 5th have just rendered them all invalid.

Since only 44% of the US voting population voted, Trump may have won by the apathy of more than half the country.

That's just one of the problems with the US political system.

You can continue spitting and fuming, but that's all it is, and it exposes YOUR corruption.

Well, lets see if Trump keeps his campaign promises, and how he performs as leader (because apparently he wasn't able to do things because the opposition were picking on him last time, unlike all other previous Presidents where they had no opposition at all).

(and no-one mention the million plus death toll in the US from COVID, which could have been handled better, eh).

a reply to: chr0naut

Trump was impeached twice. Both times for lies based on TDS. That's why impeachment doesn't mean anything anymore.

But good news is, nobody here gives a rats ass what you think about the US. You don't live here, don't know what goes on here, and seem to just like offering a pointless opinion. I'm sure folks would love to reciprocate and find all the flaws in New Zealand government, but the truth is, I just don't think anyone cares that much about your island.

BTW, Trump will be president for the next 4 years. pace yourself. You have a lot of time to spread that TDS hate.

Crime is crime. Guilty is guilty. Prosecutors need to prosecute.