Should we look for the truth, or just let it go?

originally posted by: RazorV66
a reply to: chr0naut

He has already been President for four years. I have little reason to believe he will do any better this time around. His platform was almost entirely the same as it was the last time.

And Harris and the Democrats platform was exactly the same as it was in 2020.

"Trump is Hitler"

So where is the 15 million extra voters that voted for Joe and not Kamala?
They don't exist.

In 2020 there were an estimated 256,662,010 potential voters (according to the US Federal Register) but only 60.5% of those (155,507,476) actually voted. In other years, even fewer of those eligible to vote, voted.

This is the problem with an entirely voluntary voting system. Other countries have simply mandated that all people eligible to vote, must vote, which removes any uncertainty about fluctuating voter turn-out (i.e. if the numbers don't add up, and agree, something's sus).

Other countries also have 'one person-one vote' systems which don't require some devious or hidden process or electoral 'bait-and-switch' college to 'fuzz-out' and 'proportionalize' the mandate of the people. Similarly, they don't allow voting machines, either, and because there are no 'shuffle, look-over-there, while I rearrange things' stages during elections, they seem to get results out nice and quick.

a reply to: chr0naut

It’s not common. Only 22 countries mandate voting.

How does it solve already existing corruption.


To be more in line with the thread. Any thoughts on big tech working with democrats to censor and suppress opposing opinions. Big tech pushing lies like Hunter’s laptop was Russian disinformation. Trolls like senator Adam Schiff lying about Trump being guilty of Russian Trump Collusion from a case brought about by illegal FISA warrants where Democrats bought Russian misinformation. Or any other numerous illegal activities by Democrats and their supporters.

a reply to: chr0naut

Compulsory Voting

www.idea.int...

The leading argument against compulsory voting is that it is not consistent with the freedom associated with democracy. Voting is not an intrinsic obligation and the enforcement of the law would be an infringement of the citizens' freedom associated with democratic elections. It may discourage the political education of the electorate because people forced to participate will react against the perceived source of oppression. Is a government really more legitimate if the high voter turnout is against the will of the voters? Many countries with limited financial capacity may not be able to justify the expenditures of maintaining and enforcing compulsory voting laws. It has been proved that forcing the population to vote results in an increased number of invalid and blank votes compared to countries that have no compulsory voting laws.

Another consequence of mandatory voting is the possible high number of "random votes". Voters who are voting against their free will may check off a candidate at random, particularly the top candidate on the ballot. The voter does not care whom they vote for as long as the government is satisfied that they fulfilled their civic duty. What effect does this immeasurable category of random votes have on the legitimacy of the democratically elected government?

originally posted by: SourGrapes
a reply to: chr0naut

And here you are still believing the lies and propaganda.

Maybe, there is no hope for you.

Do you have mental institutions on your island? You'll probably need one to help you cope when you're finally allowed to see and read news that isn't propaganda.

Eta: the "once a MAGA, now a Trump hater" story is made up propaganda

Was America great again, after the previous Trump administration? 4 years which ended in disease, unrestrained debt, loss of major industry, and near economic collapse.

But he humped flags and waved Bibles in photo ops, so, he broke those things with love in his heart

a reply to: chr0naut

Well after four years of unchecked illegal immigration, speech suppression, a disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan and the cherry on top, after that unrestrained debt pouring billions into the Ukraine. We didn't see any course corrections that improved anything. We are not scrutinizing Trumps last term, that ended four years ago. Everything now is looking at what those who replaced him did or didn't do and it was found to be seriously lacking!

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: tjack

That one needs to be kept in the bag for a bit. Once the teeth gnashing starts to reach a fever pitch, bring out the montage of all those screaming "nobody is above the law!!", and make them realize they can't have it both ways.

Calculated steps.

What about “the wrong side of history”? Because I really like using that one

originally posted by: Lazy88
a reply to: chr0naut

It’s not common. Only 22 countries mandate voting.

How does it solve already existing corruption.

On its own, it doesn't solve anything, but as part of a system of sensible directives, it completely removes doubt as to changes in voter numbers possibly being due to fabrication of voters.

To be more in line with the thread. Any thoughts on big tech working with democrats to censor and suppress opposing opinions.

Absolutely. The US Democratic Party is looking for points of difference and any advantage they can.

Most of them will abide by ethical rules, but others of them just want to win - exactly the same as the situation with the US Republican Party. Neither are 'clean'.

If you recall, Cambridge Analytica/SCL got prosecuted for their election interference around the world, leading up to, and beyond, the 2016 US elections (and to Brexit in the UK). They were notably employed by the US Republican Party, and specifically the Trump 2016 campaign.

Big tech pushing lies like Hunter’s laptop was Russian disinformation.

Are you really suggesting that Russia did not put out disinformation about Hunter's laptop? Of course they did - everyone was doing it (Russians, Iranians, Koreans, Americans, the Brits). It just became another part of the info war that's happening all the time, even now. It would be totally naïve to think it wasn't happening.

LOL.

Trolls like senator Adam Schiff lying about Trump being guilty of Russian Trump Collusion

Really?

Schiff's report did not say that there was any direct evidence of Trump himself colluding with Russian agents, but there is ample evidence of contact between Trump campaign associates and Russian agents.

And Schiff's report is not the only one. The Mueller report comes to very similar conclusions.

Additionally, Mannafort, Kilimnik, Papadopolous and Roger Stone were actually convicted and prosecuted for various activities colluding with Russian agents.

Have you actually read the reports, rather than just rely somebody else's summary of what they think?

Here's the reports, but be aware that they are rather large .pdf files from official source:

Report On The Investigation Into Russian Interference In The
2016 Presidential Election - Mueller Report - Volume I of II

Report On The Investigation Into Russian Interference In The
2016 Presidential Election - Mueller Report - Volume II of II

SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE - UNITED STATES SENATE - ON - RUSSIAN ACTIVE MEASURES CAMPAIGNS AND INTERFERENCE IN THE 2016 U.S. ELECTION - VOLUME 1: RUSSIAN EFFORTS AGAINST ELECTION

SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE - UNITED STATES SENATE - ON - RUSSIAN ACTIVE MEASURES CAMPAIGNS AND INTERFERENCE IN THE 2016 U.S. ELECTION - VOLUME 2: RUSSIA'S USE OF SOCIAL MEDIA

SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE - UNITED STATES SENATE - ON - RUSSIAN ACTIVE MEASURES CAMPAIGNS AND INTERFERENCE IN THE 2016 U.S. ELECTION - VOLUME 3: U.S. GOVERNMENT RESPONSE TO RUSSIAN ACTIVITIES

SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE - UNITED STATES SENATE - ON - RUSSIAN ACTIVE MEASURES CAMPAIGNS AND INTERFERENCE IN THE 2016 U.S. ELECTION - VOLUME 4: REVIEW OF THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY ASSESSMENT

from a case brought about by illegal FISA warrants where Democrats bought Russian misinformation. Or any other numerous illegal activities by Democrats and their supporters.

Trump has consistently denied totally, stuff which is strongly evidenced, and which is also to be expected from enemy nations. This is how you can be sure he is lying.

I'd like to learn the truth about the "UFOs" that were shot down and how that Chinese spy balloon was allowed to casually cruise over the USA and what sensors/equipment/payload were on board.

originally posted by: Lazy88
a reply to: chr0naut

Compulsory Voting

www.idea.int...

The leading argument against compulsory voting is that it is not consistent with the freedom associated with democracy. Voting is not an intrinsic obligation and the enforcement of the law would be an infringement of the citizens' freedom associated with democratic elections. It may discourage the political education of the electorate because people forced to participate will react against the perceived source of oppression. Is a government really more legitimate if the high voter turnout is against the will of the voters? Many countries with limited financial capacity may not be able to justify the expenditures of maintaining and enforcing compulsory voting laws. It has been proved that forcing the population to vote results in an increased number of invalid and blank votes compared to countries that have no compulsory voting laws.

Another consequence of mandatory voting is the possible high number of "random votes". Voters who are voting against their free will may check off a candidate at random, particularly the top candidate on the ballot. The voter does not care whom they vote for as long as the government is satisfied that they fulfilled their civic duty. What effect does this immeasurable category of random votes have on the legitimacy of the democratically elected government?

All those alleged possible negatives still exist where voting is voluntary.

And if people choose to invalidate their vote, that is still their choice, because freedumb!

But, lets look at the US Electoral College situation, as voting in microcosm, where votes are scrutinized and people even get prosecuted for voting faithlessly or invalidating their vote. People still choose to vote faithlessly and still invalidate their vote, even among only 538 voters. So not having the largest numbers of genuine voters possible to legally achieve, actually amplifies the effect of those who deliberately mess up their vote. And it opens up circumstance for corruption because how would you know if some miscreant was voting multiple times pretending multiple identities? You wouldn't even know if you have a quorum sufficient to make the vote indicative of the will of the people. In every sense, 'voluntary voting' predisposes towards unfettered corruption.

And yes, it can be an imposition to go and vote at a polling place, but it isn't really a loss of liberty by any means, and, well, if you don't even do the minimums that are required to maintain liberty within a legal framework, then you don't have it, do you?

a reply to: chr0naut

[bLord have mercy, what is all that rant, don't you get it? Trump won the elections, popular and electoral, get over it, before you get a break down and your brain melts away, if you are an American you know what all that means.

Give it up, get over it, you will be a lot healthier.

originally posted by: marg6043

if you are an American you know what all that means.

>Spoiler Alert

originally posted by: hangedman13
a reply to: chr0naut

Well after four years of unchecked illegal immigration, speech suppression, a disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan and the cherry on top, after that unrestrained debt pouring billions into the Ukraine. We didn't see any course corrections that improved anything. We are not scrutinizing Trumps last term, that ended four years ago. Everything now is looking at what those who replaced him did or didn't do and it was found to be seriously lacking!

Well, debt was not reigned in, but there is this:

Gross domestic product of the United States from 1990 to 2023

If debt can be slowed and GDP continue to rise, the economic outcome will improve. But it can't possibly happen quickly, because hundreds of millions of people like you will have to rebalance spending compared to income, and to ensure that the things they spend on are worth their hard earned dollars. Unfortunately with increasing scam/virtual products, with zero resale or utility, too many people spent for fashionable compliance.

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: chr0naut

[bLord have mercy, what is all that rant, don't you get it? Trump won the elections, popular and electoral, get over it, before you get a break down and your brain melts away, if you are an American you know what all that means.

Give it up, get over it, you will be a lot healthier.

I am not doubting that Trump won.

I was responding to another poster in this thread, about the advantages and disadvantages of compulsory voting. Perhaps if you click on their name in my post, you could have a better idea of the context when their post pops up.

Also, suggesting that someone must be an American to be able to properly understand the American situation, is laughable.

a reply to: chr0naut

The United States Electoral System worked again.

And never forget, per capita, people in Red voting areas own more land than people in Blue voting areas. So there. 😁

a reply to: chr0naut

Your ranting and raving makes People wonder if you are actually an American. Hmmmm 😊

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: chr0naut

The United States Electoral System worked again.

And never forget, per capita, people in Red voting areas own more land than people in Blue voting areas. So there. 😁

Trump said it wasn't going to work.

But it do...

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: SourGrapes
a reply to: chr0naut

And here you are still believing the lies and propaganda.

Maybe, there is no hope for you.

Do you have mental institutions on your island? You'll probably need one to help you cope when you're finally allowed to see and read news that isn't propaganda.

Eta: the "once a MAGA, now a Trump hater" story is made up propaganda

Was America great again, after the previous Trump administration? 4 years which ended in disease, unrestrained debt, loss of major industry, and near economic collapse.

But he humped flags and waved Bibles in photo ops, so, he broke those things with love in his heart

That’s easy to say when he had Swamp mud stuck to the bottom of his shoe during his whole last term.

Obstruction and lawfare against the man and his policies, many of which they stole as their own ideas after the fact.

They effectively obstructed his moves and then ignored the Covid effect, claiming Covid recovery as success, like the job creation numbers.

originally posted by: yeahright

originally posted by: marg6043

if you are an American you know what all that means.

>Spoiler Alert

Thanks now I get it, been wondering about that for months, is interesting that many people think that Americas politics are as easy as the liberal media try to portrait when they spew the crap they spew in favor of democrats.

But reality is a biatch many have not clue how things work in the nation of laws like the US.

originally posted by: chr0naut


All those alleged possible negatives still exist where voting is voluntary.

How. Like people just selecting names at random because they were forced to vote.

Voting because you choose to engage in a right is very different than voting because you are forced to.