Israel Defense Forces Shoot American Woman in the Head in Occupied West Bank

a reply to: Degradation33

Indeed, you present a tough argument to counter. Why am I not surprised?

I cannot dispute your statements. I guess my only point plays into one you have seemingly neutered early in your statement, and that is..."Israel" wasn't even an official state until 1948. And, part of the justification for it was the Holocaust, which I would argue is something Israel has been hiding behind for a very long time to justify virtually everything they do. So, yes, I guess I do divide the time before this and after it into two separate eras (to your point).

I would offer that my justification for this posture is simply the fact that Israel was granted statehood largely based on the wrongs which had been perpetuated against them during the Nazi era, and indeed the Holocaust. At that time, the world gesture offered the Israeli's a homeland to become a responsible world member "from".

I am not an Islam defender. And, I agree they have not been a kind culture throughout history. The unbiased history books will have them living and dying by the sword, and I cannot dispute this. In the same breath, I can't help but say...two wrongs don't make a right. Israel is not without blood on their hands, though they act as if they are without any responsibility whatsoever. This is where my problem with Netanyahu and Israel lies.

Additionally, if we rewind history back to the same time frames you have illustrated, wouldn't we be remiss by not also including events like the Crusades (all 8 of them)? We Christians haven't always been the nicest people either.

So, perhaps I am biased when I separate the times before 1948 and the times after. I will acknowledge this. I choose to see Israel as not just being given a homeland, but also a responsibility to act responsible accordingly. A simple look at pictures of Gaza before and after today is enough to see that Hamas, Hezbollah and all of the Palestinians combined simply do not have the firepower to wreak that amount of savagery on a region as has been delivered. The entire area is reduced to rubble. Yes, Hamas is not innocent here, nor are the Palestinians for harboring their evil. But, neither is Israel.

I applaud your argument (as I often do, even if I may not agree), but I only offer that I think you need to co-join some of the rest of history for a bit of balance and perspective.

Israel is not innocent, not by a long shot. Hamas and the Palestinians my be 'guilty-ER', but again, two wrongs don't make a right.

At the end of the day, I personally ask what will become of Israel if they rid the entire region of all non-Jews (which is clearly their goal)? They will become the pariah of certainly the Arab world, if not the larger world around them. In so doing, they will also make themselves a "target" of near Biblical proportions. And, not even the Holocaust excuses will protect them then. I wonder if people even think about this?

a reply to: FlyersFan
Except none of those are debunked.
Israel HAS a policy of genocide.
They really DID kill their own people on 10/7.
It's called reality.
You too can learn it by reading from every side. If you are reading only pro-israel "news" sources you may never learn the truth. Listening to both sides and then deciding on your own is best when it comes to realizing truth. But judging by your posts, I don't think you are doing that.

I see someone mentioned armenian genocide. I wonder why turks didn't coin a term for that. Some term like "blood libel". Only israel did. Strange. It is almost as if turks accepted it happened while israel keeps lying everyday with made up terms like "blood libel".

originally posted by: jofafot
a reply to: FlyersFan
Except none of those are debunked.
Israel HAS a policy of genocide.
They really DID kill their own people on 10/7.
It's called reality.
You too can learn it by reading from every side. If you are reading only pro-israel "news" sources you may never learn the truth. Listening to both sides and then deciding on your own is best when it comes to realizing truth. But judging by your posts, I don't think you are doing that.

I see someone mentioned armenian genocide. I wonder why turks didn't coin a term for that. Some term like "blood libel". Only israel did. Strange. It is almost as if turks accepted it happened while israel keeps lying everyday with made up terms like "blood libel".

The so called apache attack was debunked and was against HAMAS terrorist. Also Israel existed back in biblical days as well right beside of judea. Rome illegally renamed them the area of palestinia.

originally posted by: worldstarcountry
a reply to: yuppa
I thought the Romans named them Palestinians to spite the Israelites?? Is that not the usual crap I hear when presented with maps from the 1800's and earlier calling the land Palestine like my 1874 Family Bible filed in the Library of Congress? We can go back twenty years, a hundred or two thousand, whatever it takes to drive point the home, Palestinians are not human, they are just dregs of humanity, a bug to be squished under the boot. And any person that dare defend them , it is permissible to just shoot them dead as well. or quite frankly, run over them with a bulldozer. Hopefully American and British soldiers could have this leeway someday, and perhaps even our own Police officers. Why bother with courts at all??

Oh wait ... only Israeli military are permitted. Not American, British, nor Russian or Turkish or French. Only Israel has the right to be above any form of accountability or condemnation for their atrocious actions. All others must be subject to military tribunals, or court marshal or civil courts of law. No no no, we always must be certain that the state of Israel has the blank check, the absolute right to be absolved of any of its extreme violence, innocent families being forced to live in cages in their own neighborhoods be damned!

Yes the romans also renamed them as a insult by using a dead enemies peoples name. Modern palestinians are NOT palestinians,they are JORDANIANS. Calling them not human is a insult to monsters everywhere. Still dont change the fact it was NEVER a country/nation. it was a "area".
And the reason why they are in such bad living conditions is their own fault for being inhospitiable and violent fools.

originally posted by: SecretKnowledge2

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: network dude

So it's OK to shoot someone in the head for throwing stones ?

Starting to feel like I'm living in an alternate history where Hitler won the war.

The IDF have rocks thrown at them for years now. They know thats all thats coming.

You're banging your head off a brick wall here with people who refuse to be truthful and call it OK to do that. Murdering women and children.

Netenyahu is the obstacle to peace, even his fellow country people are demonstrating about it. He wont go for talks. One time he did about 45 prisoners were released.

Rocks can be deadly weapons. example:Goliath was slain by a rock.(the real tall dude not the exaggerated one)

a reply to: Degradation33

It's easy to spin Israel into a monster if you willfully suppress everything leading up to that.

Just as it's easy to see Israel as the victim if you ignore their decades of aggression and theft of land leading up to the attack and the reason Hamas were in a position to launch that attack , Netanyahu has long been criticised for allowing Hamas to receive funding from Qatar because they were a useful foil against the more moderate Palestinian Authority but he continued to nurture them to use as an excuse for him to do whatever he wanted to do.

originally posted by: jofafot
Except none of those are debunked.

Yeah ... they are.
Claiming Israel has a policy of genocide is a lie. And it's blood libel.
Claiming Israel used the Hannibal Directive on 10/7 is a debunked lie.
And it's blood libel.
That's the truth of it.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Claiming Israel used the Hannibal Directive on 10/7 is a debunked lie.

No , it isn't.

Jul 7, 2024
'There was crazy hysteria, and decisions started being made without verified information': Documents and testimonies obtained by Haaretz reveal the Hannibal operational order, which directs the use of force to prevent soldiers being taken into captivity, was employed at three army facilities infiltrated by Hamas, potentially endangering civilians as well
www.haaretz.com... oldiers-captive/00000190-89a2-d776-a3b1-fdbe45520000

The Israeli army did deploy its so-called Hannibal Directive, which allows the military to use all necessary force to prevent the capture of soldiers, during the October 7 Hamas-led attacks on Israel,resulting in the loss of both civilian and military lives, an investigation by the Israeli newspaper Haaretz has found.

Despite reports the directive had been cancelled back in 2016, the Haaretz investigation, published on Sunday, found that Israeli commanders ordered its deployment without any caveat or further clarification during a chaotic response to the events of October 7 when Hamas fighters attacked army outposts and surrounding villages in southern Israel.

Investigating the Israeli response to that surprise attack, journalists from Haaretz reviewed military documents and gained testimonies from soldiers, mid-level and senior officers to reveal the orders and procedures laid down by the Gaza Division, Southern Command and the Israeli general staff on that day, demonstrating not just widespread knowledge of the Hannibal Protocol but its use at various locations of the attack.

During the chaos, while Israeli army commanders struggled to fully grasp the scale of the assault by Hamas, it is alleged the directive was deployed at three military facilities. However, the orders failed to distinguish between soldiers being captured and civilians.

According to Haaretz, at 7:18am, during the early hours of the attack, a report of a kidnapping at Beit Hanoon, known to Israelis as Erez, a crossing between Israel and Gaza, the order given by the divisional headquarters was simply “Hannibal at Erez”, with no further explanation or clarification, suggesting its meaning was already well known to everyone included in the message.

A message sent to the Gaza Division about five hours after the attacks began, ordered: “Not a single vehicle can return to Gaza.”

A source within Israel’s Southern Command, responsible for policing parts of the borders with Egypt, Jordan and Gaza, subsequently told Haaretz: “Everyone knew by then that such vehicles could be carrying kidnapped civilians or soldiers … Everyone knew what it meant to not let any vehicles return to Gaza.”
www.aljazeera.com...

originally posted by: gortex
No , it isn't.

And so far there is no evidence that any civilians died because of it. You are really going to blame all, or even the majority, of 1200 deaths of Oct 7 on Israel? Wow ... I knew you lied about Israel a lot but thats bold even for you.

You really ought to stop lying about Israel having a policy of Genocide.
It's not a good look for you. There is no genocide.

a reply to: FlyersFan

You are really going to blame all, or even the majority, of 1200 deaths of Oct 7 on Israel?

No but I do blame Israel for killing some of them including the escaped hostages with the white flag who were also killed by them.

Don't attack me for denying ignorance just because that ignorance is yours , Hannibal being implemented is not a debunked lie as you claim just as the helicopter attacks are not debunked lies nor the use of tank rounds against a house known to contain civilians , fog of war caused some civilian deaths with the implementation of the directive that says a hostage is already dead so it's OK to kill them because you can't kill an already dead person killing some others.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: FlyersFan



Don't attack me for denying ignorance just because that ignorance is yours ,

War is hell. We wouldn’t be here if Hamas didn’t break a ceasefire. And torture, rape, drug, murder hostages.

What is a peace promise worth from the Palestinians?

"We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with the Arabs when they learn to love their children more than they hate us." - Golda Meir, former Israeli P

Funny you never post about all the times Palestinians fired rockets and they miss fired hit things like hospitals and lie it was the Jews, massacred a convoy leaving Gaza, turn on any Palestinian helping distribute Isreal aid, misuse aid for years to build miles of terror tunnels with openings at hospitals/daycares/schools/family housing.

a reply to: FlyersFan
You need to accept the Israeli's own words and look in the mirror. You are displaying the symptom of someone unable to confront reality coming from the very people admitting their guilt of said action. Which other states would have executed their citizens instead of launched diplomatic efforts to secure their release? And then lie about it in order to generate global outrage without the full story so they could have rabid societal approval to just level apartment block after apartment block of non-humans who's time for existence has run its course.

When you say the things you say, just remember to say them out loud so you can hear them yourself.

originally posted by: worldstarcountry

You are displaying the symptom of someone unable to confront reality coming from the very people admitting their guilt of said action.

That Israel is fighting an enemy that will violate a ceasefire, and use their children as humans shields. Then you turn a blind eye that Hamas purposely hides their militants and ammunitions in schools, hospitals, and places of warships.

Yes. Israel acknowledges they have to fight an enemy that has no value for human life.

a reply to: Lazy88
Israel shows it has no value for the lives of its own citizens, let alone those who their benefactors spend billions on every year to associate as sub-human.

Good lord, do some of you all realize your acting just like the DNC cult and their defense of the criminals in the White House/State Department with this blind zealous defense of Israel and ignoring its crimes of supporting and funding Islamic terrorism that murdered a good chunk of Middle Eastern Semites and murdering its own citizens with state assets?

it is ok to criticize your friends when they act like drunken idiots. it is most certainly ok to criticize your friends when they murder their own people and admit repeatedly to funding and supporting Islamic terrorists. If I hate Islamic terrorists, but my friend admits to a history of funding and supporting them, as well as killing their own people, who is the arsehole?

originally posted by: worldstarcountry
When you say the things you say, just remember to say them out loud so you can hear them yourself.

My responses on this thread are accurate and just fine.

This woman went from a secure location, to a foreign country, to a volatile area of the Middle East, to join with an angry mob, to attack armed soldiers. It was a stupid thing to do. She caused her own death. This is Darwinism in action.

The so called 'Palestinians' and Hamas caused this mess. They state they will not stop attacking Israel until it is destroyed and the Jews genocided. They hold hostages and refuse to give them up. They have received billions of $$ in aide money and instead of spending it on infrastructure and education and medicine and improving Gaza and investing in it, they spent it on tunnels and weapons and on terrorism and on indoctrination of the youth to continue the mess. They tried to take over Jordan and failed. They tried to take over Egypt and failed. Now they try to take over Israel and are failing. They have caused their own situation.

a reply to: FlyersFan

ahh, so Israel funding and supporting Islamic terror, including Hamas and ISIS, and admitting they killed their own people , which IMO just proves the IDF incompetence which they try to cover up with PR and technology superiority. All that is irrelevant, they get a free pass to kill their own citizens intentionally and support Islamic terror to ... what ... fight Islamic terror?? And kill Americans who dare to speak out against abuses on civilians?

Man, I am blown away this is a consciously acceptable scenarios for anyone.

a reply to: gortex

If it looks like Genocide why not call it as such , what I call it makes no difference to anything.

Then you obviously don’t know the definition of genocide. It’s war, unfortunately innocent people die in war. You haven’t said a damn thing about Palestinians wanting to exterminate all Jews. I guess you’re okay with that?

a reply to: KrustyKrab

Then you obviously don’t know the definition of genocide.

I believe I do , as do the people below who also think Israel has and is committing Genocide.
I suggest it is you who , for reasons best known to yourself , doesn't know the definition of genocide.

For all of the condemnation of Israel’s actions, there is also strong opposition to Israel’s actions being labeled a genocide. Where does that pushback come from?
The opposition is political,as there is consensus amongst the international human rights legal community, many other legal and political experts, including many Holocaust scholars, that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza.

The opposition is from Israel, which has never accepted claims that it has committed atrocities—claims which have been made for decades for its actions as an occupier of Palestinian territory—and repudiates charges of war crimes and genocide. Israel has almost unconditional backing from the United States, and has military and other support from the United States, United Kingdom, Germany, and a few other Western states. The United States and the United Kingdom have condemned claims of genocide against Israeli leaders, including the orders of the ICJ and the ICC seeking arrest warrants.
www.bu.edu...

But as some guy on the internet it is you who have a better grasp on International law and what is or isn't Genocide than legal experts in the field of International law , forgive me but I have a hard time believing that.

a reply to: worldstarcountry

Israel funded hamas because they were being constantly attacked by the PLO and Fatah under Arafat. Hamas wanted to do away with the PLO and Fatah. It was the lesser of two evils for Israel. Not a hard concept to grasp for most considering their position at the time. That changed when Hamas turned against Israel.

Israel’s support of ISIS is highly disputed. Are you talking about the Syrian war when there was supposedly support from the US and Israel to defeat Hezbollah who were enemies of Israel?

Nice assumptions you have going for your narrative. Israel’s at fault no matter the circumstances right?

Do you have a body count for Israelis knowingly killing their own people. Not saying it hasn’t happened just curious what particular instances you’re talking about, was it collateral damage? Do you have some links to the purposed murder of their own people?

a reply to: gortex

The UN keeps pushing the narrative of “signs of genocide” personally I and many others think it’s BS. Israel is not deliberately targeting civilians, matter of fact they’re giving them more than ample warning to evacuate and have even provided aid to them, is that something you do for people you want to exterminate? No

I tend to agree with most everything in this article
www.ajc.org...

Those who claim that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza not only misunderstand the legal definition of genocide and what the laws of war permit; they also base the charge on unsubstantiated claims. It is unquestionable that many civilians in Gaza have died and even more have suffered immensely since October 7. However, there are so many “unknowns” with an important bearing on Israel’s conduct in this war that it is impossible to say with certainty that it is acting wrongfully. The number of “innocents” vs. terrorists that have died: This is impossible to know given that the Ministry of Health in Gaza is under the control of and susceptible to influence by Hamas, and does not separate innocent civilians from fighters in its announced death tolls. The circumstances in which numerous innocents have been killed in Gaza: This includes whether they died because of attacks carried out by the IDF or because of intentional or unintentional harmful actions by Hamas or other Palestinian armed groups. A key example is the explosion at Al-Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza City, which the U.S. and other governments have determined was caused by a failed rocket fired by Palestinian Islamic Jihad and not, as Hamas, the Hamas-controlled Ministry of Health in Gaza, and many other sources claimed, by the IDF. The nature of the military objective of attacks carried out by the IDF in which Palestinian civilians have died: Given that it is not possible for independent assessments to be conducted into whether a Hamas leader, tunnel, and/or weapons cache was present at the site of any specific IDF attack in Gaza, which Hamas still largely controls.