This is why abortion, particularly late term abortion, is so important to the democrats

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Moon68
If you want me, as a taxpayer, to help pay for it then it most certainly IS my business.

I’m attest.

Tax churches.

It’s not about you. We all pay for stuff we don’t agree with.

It's not about agreeing. You say it's not my business but if I'm paying I've got a say in the matter whether you like it or not.

Planned Parenthood is a multi billion dollar outfit. Lots of money is Public (taxpayer) funded. Lots of THAT money gets filtered down directly and through proxies into political campaign accounts (one guess which political parti gets 99% of it). The Abortion issues play a major part of their money funnels. 😉

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: network dude

Your nation will be different, possibly even by state i suppose.

But here in the UK a fetus does not have legal personhood or rights until it is born.

And the rights of the pregnant woman are prioritised, particularly when it comes to decisions about her body and health.

Again the law allows abortion up to 24 weeks based on the balance between the rights of the woman and the developing fetus.

The debate is of a philosophical nature based on the law, ethics, and personal beliefs network dude as I'm sure you are aware.

Yea, I'm aware. I just want to know at what point that clump of cells becomes a human, and since I'm in the US, I am curious as to what point that human gains the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.

originally posted by: Annee

It’s none of your business or anyone else’s

It's everyones business when a company like Planned Parenthood illegally murder babies and then sell the body parts.

originally posted by: network dude
It almost sounds like at some point in the pregnancy, that clump of cells becomes a tiny human.

The babies heart is beating before it's 2 weeks in the womb.
That's a human heart beating.

originally posted by: Annee
Tax churches.

It’s not about you. We all pay for stuff we don’t agree with.

YOU get pregnant.
YOU pay for slaughtering your own child.
YOU pay the butcher to do the killing.
It's YOUR responsibility, not mine.

a reply to: network dude

Here in the UK the answer to your question would appear to be when the baby is born.

As to the US, i dont know, again does that not vary from state to state now depending on the abortion laws?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: fringeofthefringe

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: fringeofthefringe

Newly Released Undercover Video from 2015?

originally posted by: Annee
Not new. Film is from 2015.

A verdict awarded the plaintiffs more than $2.2 million on November 16, 2019, and Daleiden was instructed to pay $500,000 in compensatory damages (most of which will be tripled under federal racketeering law), as well as $870,000 in punitive damages to Planned Parenthood.

I hope this becomes part of the states rights debate on abortion.

Why?

It’s none of your business or anyone else’s

How dare strangers debate my reproductive choices.

My reproductive choices are not up for debate.

Interesting use of the noun. You keep selfishly saying, "My" "my" "my"... 🤔 Aside from artificial insemination, it doesn't happen on your own. Your reproductive choices are split between you and your partner. Sometimes the precautions people deploy don't always work, and an undesired pregnancy may occur.

That pregnancy is now yours and your partners, you know the catalyst and the base that started the cells dividing , hence "the start of life". That life will continue to be alive, growing and developing and eventually becoming a mini version of yourself.

How many versions of yourself have you terminated in your lifetime?? How many possibilities did you create and then utterly destroy???
3-5? 10-15?

I don't think abortion should be cut and dry illegal, but I do want to see what alternatives (aside from abstinence) that can be used to prevent the pregnancy in the first place. I HIGHLY disagree with the serial abortionist that use it specifically for birth control.

You see, your pro-abortion logic is that its my body my choice, but think a bit deeper. You gave up half of that equation when you consensually allowed a male to enter your reproductive system.

Now you have two other partners in this. Your sex partner and the baby. They have no say though, huh? Just "My" "my" "my"....."me" "me" "me"??

I'm certainly in support of the mother surviving, and I'm also supportive of early termination for forced, nonconsensual pregnancy or birth defects.

HOWEVER, using abortion as birth control should be illegal, period. You shouldn't be able to just become a serial abortionist without some type of psychological intervention or testing. The celebratory behavior about abortion is just disgusting and wicked.

An abortion should be a painful reminder to be more responsible and take better precautions. I remember it being that way, but it's been made to be a cultural facet of biological women. Why would you wanna own that of all things?? Again, disgusting.

originally posted by: Annee

My reproductive choices are not up for debate.

You are almost 80 years old. You don't have any 'reproductive choices'.

And this story is about an illegal operation where babies were murdered and their body parts were sold. It has nothing to do with 'reproductive choices'.

originally posted by: frogs453
a reply to: VariedcodeSole

Sure:

ca.gov

ca.gov
ca.gov

My apologies. Got lazy as it was 3 different links.

Gracias!

originally posted by: Euronymous2625
This garbage again? 🙄

Abortion is an issue because it's nobody's business other than the patient and their doctor. Lawmaking, religious nutjobs should have ZERO say so in it.

Any government agency should not be pushing abortions to women though, it happens around here, I know some girls that had planned parenthood try to convince them it was better for them. One of them was married with a child already and they told her she did not have to tell her husband she got it done, it was her choice alone. It was his kid too and he should have had some say so in the matter. She did not get it done, in fact she was kind of irked at them for trying to tell her it probably would be a good idea.

These agencies should just stick to giving pregnancy tests if someone comes in to see if they are pregnant to save a doctor visit if they don't have insurance to cover the bill.

Nope,

The issue is having control over your body

It's the same desired outcome from pro-life as it is with pro-choice.

Neither side wants to recognize life.

Of course, pro-choice wants to dilute the definition of life but so do almost all of the pro-life.

Most pro-life, including Trump, want exceptions.

Meaning they believe it's a life but under certain circumstances that life has less value than suffering of people they deem innocent.

I'm less concerned with where in the gray area the line is drawn as long as there is a clear recognition of the line.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Annee

My reproductive choices are not up for debate.

You are almost 80 years old. You don't have any 'reproductive choices'.

And this story is about an illegal operation where babies were murdered and their body parts were sold. It has nothing to do with 'reproductive choices'.

My first pregnancy was a spontaneous abortion (miscarry). I was 20 — married. Fished the “pink bean” out of the toilet.

Because of hospital construction they had no where to put me except with the other new mothers and their babies.

A year later — cleared by the doc — I got pregnant with my first daughter.

3 years later I got pregnant with my 2nd daughter.

A few years later I chose to have a selective abortion.

—————

So, I had a miscarriage — 2 children — and an abortion.

What is your experience?

a reply to: fringeofthefringe

I hope this becomes part of the states rights debate on abortion. When you see the fetus in the womb, sucking their toes and fingers it should give us all pause.

Hasn't so far, but most states are drafting amendments that don't extend beyond viability.

Most are about 22-25 weeks.

truthout.org...

Some are fighting tooth and nail to keep it off the ballot.

Arizona Right to Life, a far right anti-abortion group, challenged the proposal on several fronts. Initially, the organization had argued that signatures were collected in an improper way, stating without evidence that some signatures were faked, for example.

Supporters got more than TWICE the signatures required though. So they pivoted to "confusing language."

However, the group dropped that challenge and instead focused on other dubious claims, including allegations that the wording of the amendment and an accompanying explanation of it was too confusing for voters.

To which the judge said:

“The description accurately and fully communicated the initiative’s key provisions,” Julian wrote in her opinion. “This Court will not order its removal from the general statewide election ballot.”

As far as states' rights goes, does this coalition speak to the state populace? Or do they affirm their morality above the will of the people?

They want a a near supermajority public opinion tossed.

Polling on the measure shows that it has the support of most Arizonans at this time. A CBS News survey back in May, for instance, found that 65 percent of voters backed enshrining abortion as a state constitutional right, with only 21 percent stating they were opposed to the idea.

The popularity of the proposal is also notable in the fact that Arizona for Abortion Access was able to obtain over 800,000 signatures in support of it appearing on the ballot — more than twice the number that was needed in order to have voters decide on it in November.

I think all the candid videos of "evil fetus saleswomen" in the world are STILL going to have a tough time selling the outrage as more important than "f*ck off my body." Especially in AZ where the standing law (Post 2022) predates suffrage and the acceptable showing of our legs in public.

According to polling, in AZ the 21% have to convince the 65% "what they are doing is bad," before states rights enshrine it. You're gonna need a vocal minority to change the majority opinion, and persuade them to embrace the reverted to 1800s law.

a reply to: millerman220

I have an issue with my tax dollars going to programs like public schools.

Parents should be paying for it.

originally posted by: TinfoilTophat
a reply to: millerman220

I have an issue with my tax dollars going to programs like public schools.

Parents should be paying for it.

Punish the LIVING CHILDREN.

originally posted by: Annee
What is your experience?

Irrelevant.

This story is about an illegal operation where babies were murdered and their body parts were sold. It has nothing to do with 'reproductive choices'. Therefore, it is the business of every citizen of the United States who believes in law and order.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: network dude

It almost sounds like at some point in the pregnancy, that clump of cells becomes a tiny human.

At what point would that be?

I'm asking, not telling. You don't seem to have any limits, so who can make this call?

Then you're deaf, blind and dumb, with a very short memory. I've consistently and loudly advocated for "Viability", the same standard that set by Roe.

You guy disingenuously keep acting like there were no limits, and abortion was rampant under Roe. But Roe did set a limit, and that limit was viability. Also, at the time of the Dobbs ruling, abortion statistics were the lowest they had been since 1973, when the Roe ruling became the "Law of Land".

a reply to: network dude

Here you go, this discusses limits if any and time frames of 178 countries and the U.S.

Link

I can tell you it shouldn't be random men, nor as in the case of the Louisiana law, a pastor helping write the bills.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: network dude

Here in the UK the answer to your question would appear to be when the baby is born.

As to the US, i dont know, again does that not vary from state to state now depending on the abortion laws?

You don’t have to fight religion.

States that are more religious are trying to make anti-abortion laws — without the will of the people.

Because when it goes to vote of the people — right to abortion wins.