UN high commissioner : Israel may have 'systematically violated' laws of war

a reply to: Degradation33

Could that ever work?

Yes, it could possibly. I think there are a variety of two-state solutions which could work. In fact, if there is ever to be peace in this region a two-state solution HAS to be arrived upon; there's no other choice. I mean, the World is simply not going to sit down for Israel exterminating everyone else, regardless of who they are (even Al qaeda), and then taking over the whole region. That is categorically unacceptable. That would be like the US going into Afghanistan and exterminating all Afghani's in the name of ridding the planet of Al qaeda, and then flying the US flag over the capital as sovereign US territory. The World would absolutely not tolerate this, nor should they.

So yes, I think a two-state solution of some form can work, but I also think it's time to get out the "big stick" with Israel (and that 'big stick' is US money and military aid to Israel). Israel needs to understand they simply will not be permitted to do this, and they need to clearly understand what hangs in the balance if they try. There needs to be clear consequences, and Israel needs to understand there are boundaries they need to follow and stay within. No exceptions. And this isn't just a begrudging 'nod' of acceptance; it needs to be signatory acceptance, full and unconditional.

Contrary to what some may think about me here, I am not anti-Israeli. On the contrary, I am pro-Israeli, but I am very much anti-Netanyahu and anti Netanyahu government.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

How do you make hamas agree to a two state solution when they don’t want it?

a reply to: Vermilion

First of all, you don't negotiate with terrorists, and you make that clear. Hamas are terrorists. Much the same as Israel would have rules and boundaries, so too would the Palestinians. The Palestinians need to agree that they will not let Hamas speak or act on their behalf, and if they do there will be serious consequences.

So, it doesn't matter what Hamas wants, and this needs to be crystal clear right up front. Israel's strategy has been the Palestinians ARE Hamas, so exterminate them all. Again, this will simply not be tolerated by the people of this planet, it just won't. And, if you come to the bargaining table with a preconceived notion you get nowhere.

If Palestinians want a sovereign territory of their own, then they agree they will represent themselves only, and the terrorist Hamas factions need to do their own bidding. BUT, this does not diminish the Palestinians responsibility for keeping their own house clean.

One thing you can't do, is let Israel think they can occupy the entire territory under an Israeli flag. This can never be an option. Israel needs to understand that if the Palestinians don't live up to their end of the bargain doesn't mean the territory automatically becomes Israel's for the taking (and this is how they operate now). If anything, threaten to give the territory to someone else (not Israel). This is the big bust right now. Netanyahu has it in his head that if the territory is not Palestinian then it automatically belongs to Israel. No, no it doesn't, and this needs to be clear.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

That’s a lot of rainbows and unicorns but I’m missing the part of your post where you say how you make the palestinians agree to a two state solution.

The Palestinians need to agree that they will not let Hamas speak or act on their behalf

The last poll done there said 79% of them back hamas.
How do you make them not back hamas?

and if they do there will be serious consequences.

You still think palestinians respond to threats? 🤡
Remember when Israel told them that if they don’t release the 10/7 hostages that there would be “serious consequences”?
Palestinians were holding hostages.
Just like hamas.
I’m sure you appreciate the differentiation, even though it’s come out that there really isn’t one.
Palestinians are terrorists, regardless of what faction they claim.

I should rephrase my question….

How do you realistically make hamas agree to a two state solution when they don’t want it?

Ask nicely? Nope

Money? Nope

Threats? Nope

Eradicate the Jews? Bingo

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

palestinians live under the banner of hamas. Like germans lived under the flag of the Nazi.

Until there is a complete surrender, there will always be hamas. hamas cannot ever be recognized as anything but a terrorist state.

There can never be a 2-state solution until the palestinians who endorse hamas ideology are dead or have surrendered.

originally posted by: Vermilion
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

That’s a lot of rainbows and unicorns but I’m missing the part of your post where you say how you make the palestinians agree to a two state solution.

It's quite simple really, if you understand diplomacy. It involves a couple of steps:

1. Do you (Palestinians) want statehood? Yes or no?

2. Do you acknowledge that the UN, the US, the UK and most of the western world recognize Hamas as "Terrorists"? Simple Yes, or No?

3. This negotiating body has the power to grant you statehood under the United Nations and the World. Do you understand this? (Yes, or No)?

4. Terrorists organizations do not have a place at any territorial negotiating table, not here, and not anywhere else on planet Earth. This is not negotiable. Do you understand, accept and agree with this policy?

5. Please sign (here) on this Declaration, in view of the world, that you are not a member of Hamas, nor do you have any affiliation with Hamas, AND that you denounce terrorist organizations like Hamas. Do you understand and agree to these terms and conditions? (Yes, or No). Remember, we have not even begun negotiations yet, these are merely the prerequisites for said negotiations.

Now, at this point, anyone who has fraudulently signed up as a Palestinian, but whom is really Hamas, has just signed their own death warrant (and they know it), because the Muslim extremist honor Code is such that lies about religion and/or ideological alignment often result in execution. However, a larger point, beyond the individual has been made...Hamas has been diminished. Result?...automatic execution for anyone who plays such a game. At the same time, these acknowledgements are the "cover charge" to even get in the door to the negotiating table.

Right now, you're thinking ("rainbows and unicorns, FCD!), but not really. The reality is...this is very likely how the first meetings will go, and it's entirely possible that the Palestinians will REFUSE to agree to ANY such terms. Okay, totally expected! (no one said this will be easy) So what next?

"Okay, Palestinians, do you as a people really want statehood...or NOT??? Serious question, and if the answer is "yes" then come back withOUT a terrorist organization negotiating on your behalf." Terrorists (Hamas) will not be allowed to negotiate and act on your behalf. So, if Palestinians are willing to take their chances infiltrating other countries as refugees, well, go right on ahead. BUT...the territory will NOT become Israel's to decide what to do with; that will NOT happen.

Now, let's say that the Palestinians take the posture that they are being held hostage as a people by Hamas, something they will likely do and say to avoid signing up for such negotiations. This is a good thing...now we're making progress!!!

How we deal with this situation is to take the whole deal off the table and let Netanyahu do whatever he feels "froggy" enough to do. "This is your alternative, Palestinians! You choose; are you Palestinians, or are you Hamas? Your call! Palestinians are being offered statehood. Terrorists are not. Your call!"

Contrary to the many impatient and immature members here...this process is NOT going to be completed in just one meeting, or even (50) meetings. It will take time. It is NOT immediate (it's not FailBook or Reddit, that's not how the world works). It will take time. The 1st round won't be successful, and the 5th round might not be successful, but the 33rd round might be successful. Look, these people have been at war for decades, no single meeting is going to bring an end to it[snip]

[snip]

a reply to: DBCowboy

I Thought America Found Out Centuries Ago that Europeans are Doomed to Repeat their Mistakes into Eternity because they NEVER Learn how to get alone with Each Other . Anything " They " come Up with could NEVER in Any way Benefit America . C'est leur ife .......

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

palestinians live under the banner of hamas. Like germans lived under the flag of the Nazi.

Until there is a complete surrender, there will always be hamas. hamas cannot ever be recognized as anything but a terrorist state.

There can never be a 2-state solution until the palestinians who endorse hamas ideology are dead or have surrendered.

DB,

You don't want a solution.

What you clearly want in your heart of hearts is...REVENGE!!!

That much is clear from your post. There is no solution other than total conquest, total annihilation and total extermination of the Palestinians. How convenient...Welcome to Dachau, but this time the Israeli's are loading the train.

Apartheid, anyone?

Tell me, how is this different than South Africa? Whose side were you on there? I'm sure you DO know that Israel was hired as the propaganda machine to shape public opinion on apartheid before the very same people got started with Israel.

Explain to me how Israel's actions are any different than the Apartheid government of South Africa before it fell.

(Before you go there, I will be the first to tell you the result after the fall was less than desirable, but you know what?...at least now the lines of accountability are clear.) If the Palestinians fall in the same way, then that's on them, but until then...they've never even had the chance ("Palestinians", mind you, NOT "Hamas").

Remember our words often spoken here..."I may not like the words you speak, but I will defend to the death your right to speak them!". The Palestinians haven't even been given a voice at all, let alone one which has been censored.

Netanyahu can NOT be allowed to take over the entire west bank. Give it back to Egypt before that. This can not EVER be an option for Israel.

a reply to: Mahogani

For those who don't understand what "Anti-Semitic" means, Shulamit Aloni, Former Israeli government minister is giving free lectures to fix the ignorance problem.

a reply to: Vermilion

There will never be peace by design. Hamas is Natanyahu's daughter / creation. Israel has been caught supporting many terrorist groups for political reasons such as ISIS and Hamas. Basically Israeli government should be held accountable for crimes committed by ISIS and Hamas. The only victim are Israeli and Palestinian civilians.

Both Israeli government and Hamas are criminal organizations. Where Hamas is funded by Israelis as much as AlQeda was funded and created by US to fight soviets. Hamas was created to kill peace process and ensure continuity of wars.

According to Charles Freeman, a former US ambassador to Saudi Arabia, “Israel started Hamas. It was a project of Shin Bet, which had a feeling that they could use it to hem in the PLO.”

Sources:
www.cnn.com/blogarchive/inside themiddleeast.blogs.cnn.com/2010/01/04/worlds-tallest-tower-opens-in-debt-hit-dubai/

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I want Nazi's to die.

I'm so busted.

You're on to me.

I'll sign off and never post again.

originally posted by: Danvero
a reply to: Vermilion

There will never be peace by design. Hamas is Natanyahu's daughter / creation. Israel has been caught supporting many terrorist groups for political reasons such as ISIS and Hamas. Basically Israeli government should be held accountable for crimes committed by ISIS and Hamas. The only victim are Israeli and Palestinian civilians.

Both Israeli government and Hamas are criminal organizations. Where Hamas is funded by Israelis as much as AlQeda was funded and created by US to fight soviets.

Israel is Controlled by the Moloch Worshiping Satanist Zionists who are FAKE Jews . On the other hand , the People of Israel Respect the Teachings of their Lord but are Still in Bondage . Some Day that Will change , their God Willing...

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I want Nazi's to die.

I'm so busted.

You're on to me.

I'll sign off and never post again.

Even Cats can see Evil ...........They Protect Us from it for FOOD.............








Dogs on the other hand............

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

According to research carried out by Israeli geneticist Dr. Eran Elhaik of the University of Sheffield, over 90 per cent of Ashkenazic ancestors come from that converted partially Greek-originating ancient community in north-east Turkey.

New research conducted by Israeli geneticist, Dr. Eran Elhaik, suggests that most of the modern Jewish population of northern and eastern Europe – normally known as Ashkenazic Jews – are the descendants of Greeks, Iranians and others who colonized what is now northern Turkey more than 2000 years ago and were then converted to Judaism, probably in the first few centuries AD by Jews from Persia.

The bible also tells about Non-Israelis whom have converted to Judism

But woe unto you, lawyers and (Pharisees - Farsis - Persian converts to Judaism, who were the) politicians, hypocrites! for ye shut up The Kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in [yourselves], neither allow ye them that are entering to go in (see Enoch 93:4-104:6).

Ester 8:17 And in every province, and in every city, wheresoever the king’s commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.

Further more, Ashkenaz is grand son of Japheth, whom is Shem (Semites) brother. That basically implies that Ashkenaz are not Semites.

Genesis 10
This is the account of the families of Shem, Ham, and Japheth, the three sons of Noah. Many children were born to them after the great flood.
The sons of Japheth; "Gomer", and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
The descendants of "Gomer" were "Ashkenaz", Riphath, and Togarmah.

That basically means, not because someone is Jew, he must belong to land of Israel. Any convert to Judaism by Israeli law is considered a citizen of Israel and can travel anytime to Palestine to receive his new home and job.

Well, if true, then that is sincerely too bad. I hope you are only kidding. But, I have seen some of your initial posts on DI and I 'get' where you are coming from.

You know, my friend, I don't fault someone for having a different ideological view from my conservative one (what? Consevative?...you must be kidding me!!!)

I actually respect differing opinions. And I hope you don't leave on my account, I am certainly not worthy of that...UNLESS you agree with me (and do not which to go on as a result).

As I said last night; I really don't like crossing swords with you DB, because you are one of my more favored posters. But, as I also stated, we disagree this time, and we will always disagree until Netanyahu is gone (and spelled correctly like Obama bin Laden is in my MS spellcheck) (joke...sorry)

You have been a great guy here, and I have always enjoyed interacting with you, but if this is the topic which separates us, then so be it. I will be truly sorry if you leave, as you have suggested you will.

P.S. - Just do me one favor if you DO leave. Please sign up someplace who will engage your mind, make you think and not just be another of countless thousands of echo chambers. Do that for me, will you?

Best, my friend.
(from the heart)

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Oh Jesus, I'm not leaving, unless I'm banned.

But I see the palestinians as Nazi's. And I hold no comfort for them.

They need to surrender or die.

I'm good with either one.

a reply to: Danvero


Very Interesting Information there Dan , Thank You .


It would seem you " Might " be Intertested in the Musings of one of our other ATS Members in this Thread . A Scholar IMO on the subject you are refering to here .



www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Oh Jesus, I'm not leaving, unless I'm banned.

But I see the palestinians as Nazi's. And I hold no comfort for them.

They need to surrender or die.

I'm good with either one.

Okay. Simple question for you...

Let's say Palestinians unconditionally surrender(tomorrow)...who gets the land? ???

Specifically...Israel...OR someone else?

Easy answer..."Israel"...Or..."someone else". (?)

One or the other; no need to be specific about who the "other" is, just 'Israel'...or 'other'. Real simple.

Don't give me any noize, or diversions just answer..."Israel"...OR..."Someone else"??????

(don't care who, so no need to specify).

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Oh Jesus, I'm not leaving, unless I'm banned.

But I see the palestinians as Nazi's. And I hold no comfort for them.

They need to surrender or die.

I'm good with either one.

Okay. Simple question for you...

Let's say Palestinians unconditionally surrender(tomorrow)...who gets the land? ???

Specifically...Israel...OR someone else?

Easy answer..."Israel"...Or..."someone else". (?)

To the victor goes the spoils.

I wouldnt believe anyone from the UN if they told me it was raining till I went outside to see if I got wet.

Most useless organization on this planet, and in Sept they are supposed to vote on a massive increase in the secretary generals power that will give them sweeping powers during any "emergency".