Bibi’s Dilemma

originally posted by: Daughter2v2
And what about this song? Israeli children singing about killing people in Gaza?

Whataboutism.

The poster said this - "It's not like the Palestinians have any say-so over anything. It seems to me that they DO want peace". So I posted information in direct response to his post about 'palestinians' He didn't say anything about Israel and therefore my post didn't either. He spoke about the 'palestinians' and therefore that was the information I provided.

You are now trying to deflect from that information with whataboutism that has nothing to do with the conversation.

Nice try.

originally posted by: AliceTheSmall

originally posted by: KrustyKrab
You don’t know much about the Palestinian people and their history do you? It’s all in the history books waiting for you to learn.

I know a whole lot more than you do.

About not just Palestinian history but also Jewish culture and Zionist ideology and the overall history of the region going way back before the time of Herzl. This includes even knowing a few members of each group personally.

I really haven't felt the need to crack open a history book at all. So I haven't.

I don’t think you do. I don’t think you know any more than you can google..but okay, you go girl ….tell us how you really feel, don’t you have a point to make? Stay focused, it’s your thread after all, should we stay on topic?

originally posted by: Lazy88
And yet you ignore the “Palestinian” call to jihad to cleanse the world for their god and the call for people to die as martyrs?

I can't ignore what I don't hear. I don't watch FOX News anymore, so maybe that's why.

originally posted by: KrustyKrab
I don’t think you do. I don’t think you know any more than you can google..but okay, you go girl ….tell us how you really feel, don’t you have a point to make?

I know you don't think so, but it's okay.

originally posted by: AliceTheSmall

originally posted by: Lazy88
And yet you ignore the “Palestinian” call to jihad to cleanse the world for their god and the call for people to die as martyrs?

I can't ignore what I don't hear. I don't watch FOX News anymore, so maybe that's why.

You’re not making sense.

originally posted by: AliceTheSmall

originally posted by: KrustyKrab
I don’t think you do. I don’t think you know any more than you can google..but okay, you go girl ….tell us how you really feel, don’t you have a point to make?

I know you don't think so, but it's okay.

Under a bridge?

Skip ahead to around 14:18

a reply to: AliceTheSmall

Israel is at war because of Oct 7th. Lets look at the actual context and reality of the situation, not some skip to something your can’t even quote….

originally posted by: AliceTheSmall
Skip ahead to around 14:18

Here's some source about it:
www.jpost.com...
I don't find this plan honest. It reeks of dishonesty. It really gives the "I made it so I can be seen as the one wanting peace" propaganda vibes. And here is why:
1. Plan involves a lot of other countries which may simply refuse to be involved and this alone completely breaks the entire plan.
2. The quote below means israel can easily say "we defeated hamas but created xamas in the process so we are aborting the plan"

Power would slowly be transferred to either a local Gaza government or a unified Palestinian government (including the West Bank). However, this is contingent on the successful deradicalization and demilitarization of the Gaza Strip and will be subject to agreement by all parties.

3. AI generated image of Gaza? Shows how honest they are. They didn't even put the effort to draw something by hand. Literally just wrote a few words on a textbox and called it a day. Suuuure, I believe you and your plan.

originally posted by: Lazy88
a reply to: AliceTheSmall

Israel is at war because of Oct 7th. Lets look at the actual context and reality of the situation, not some skip to something your can’t even quote….

Israel is technically at war because of 7th of October, but that doesn't imply that they have stopped killing Palestinian people since 1948.

Number of killed Palestinians by IDF per Year:
2015 192
2016 115
2017 92
2018 280
2019 149
2020 34
2021 279
2022 215

The conflict is ongoing since forever and Israeli army doesn't shy away from killing Palestinian people yearly. Hamas actions are not unprovoked. It's a desperate attempt at liberation of a group locked in an open-air prison. Organizations like Hamas can’t win stand up fights with conventional militaries.

Being an army does not stop you from being able to do terrorist acts. An army (or the military) is simply a tool from the state's monopoly on violence, and it can be used for good, bad, or anything in-between. The term State Terrorism covers exactly what Israel is doing. Shooting little kids is terrorism. Killing entire (civilian) families in missile attacks is terrorism. The targeted killing of journalists and medical professionals is terrorism. In short, Israel’s entire playbook of war, fundamentally, is terrorism.

The conflict since its inception was a terror campaign to build modern Israel. The Irgun, Lehi and Hagana were terrorist organizations made up mostly of European Jewish settlers that oversaw and took part in the wholesale ethnic cleansing of what was then Palestine, in order to lay the ground for the modern State of Israel.

Yehoshua Zettler, the Jerusalem commander of Lehi, as he described the Arabs fleeing from their homes. Shoshani interviewed him in 2009, a few weeks before his death “I won’t tell you that we were there with kid gloves on. House after house ... we’re putting in explosives and they are running away. An explosion and move on, an explosion and move on and within a few hours, half the village isn’t there any more,” he said.

Menachem Begin, sixth president of Israel, was a leader of the Irgun. Yitzhak Shamir, seventh president of Israel, was also in the Irgun. What’s more, the IDF (Israeli Defence Forces) was born out of the merger of these several terrorist organisations when Israel’s political foundations had been established.

a reply to: Danvero

The conflict since its inception was a terror campaign to build modern Israel. The Irgun, Lehi and Hagana were terrorist organizations made up mostly of European Jewish settlers that oversaw and took part in the wholesale ethnic cleansing of what was then Palestine, in order to lay the ground for the modern State of Israel.

Yehoshua Zettler, the Jerusalem commander of Lehi, as he described the Arabs fleeing from their homes. Shoshani interviewed him in 2009, a few weeks before his death “I won’t tell you that we were there with kid gloves on. House after house ... we’re putting in explosives and they are running away. An explosion and move on, an explosion and move on and within a few hours, half the village isn’t there any more,” he said.

Menachem Begin, sixth president of Israel, was a leader of the Irgun. Yitzhak Shamir, seventh president of Israel, was also in the Irgun. What’s more, the IDF (Israeli Defence Forces) was born out of the merger of these several terrorist organisations when Israel’s political foundations had been established.

While I think one wrong doesn't validate another I also think there are a lot of similarities between hamas and these terrorist organizations you've mentioned, which even they themselves admitted.

The Irgun has been viewed as a terrorist organization or organization which carried out terrorist acts.[2][3][4][5] The Irgun policy was based on what was then called Revisionist Zionism founded by Ze'ev Jabotinsky.[6] Two of the operations for which the Irgun is best known are the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem on 22 July 1946 and the Deir Yassin massacre that killed at least 107 Palestinian Arab villagers, including women and children, carried out together with Lehi on 9 April 1948.

en.wikipedia.org...

Its avowed aim was to evict the British authorities from Palestine by use of violence, allowing unrestricted immigration of Jews and the formation of a Jewish state. It was initially called the National Military Organization in Israel,[17] upon being founded in August 1940, but was renamed Lehi one month later.[18] The group referred to its members as terrorists[19] and admitted to having carried out terrorist attacks.

...
On 29 May 1948, the government of Israel, having inducted its activist members into the Israel Defense Forces, formally disbanded Lehi...

en.wikipedia.org...(militant_group)

There is also the fact that idf came into existence by these terrorist groups merging together which makes idf also a terrorist organization at least at the time when it was first formed. I don't know what is idf's current mindset right now but judging by a documentary video I watched earlier(link should be on 2nd page), in which ex-idf soldiers expose some inhumane acts towards palestinians by the way, I can only assume atleast some idf soldiers still carry the terrorism torch passed by their terrorist ancestors who accepted they were infact terrorists.

a reply to: Danvero

You should check out the number of Israeli's killed by palestinians since 1948.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

a reply to: DBCowboy
In the table on that link, why is there no data about killed Arabs/Palestinians on "1860-Present" row?
Also why is there so much data missing on the table's wounded column? There are 10 rows of missing data about numbers for wounded Arabs/Palestinians and 6 rows of missing data for wounded Jews/Israelis.
And I don't think this table takes recent events into account. They are missing too.
Also I think that site is heavily biased and not reflecting truth because whoever wrote that page made sure to create tables for "Israelis Killed by Palestinian Terrorism" and "Palestinians Killed by Palestinians" but no there is no table to be found when it comes to palestinians killed by israeli/jewish terrorism. Makes me think writer(s) might be thinking israelis/jews have never committed acts of terrorism.

a reply to: jofafot

Oh I'm sure you and your ilk can make up some numbers about the evil joo terrorism.

*eye roll*

you and your ilk

As opposed to what?
By the way nice conversation, next time try to use your intellect to have an intellectual discussion instead of making up generalizations based on your imagination.

originally posted by: jofafot

you and your ilk

As opposed to what?
By the way nice conversation, next time try to use your intellect to have an intellectual discussion instead of making up generalizations based on your imagination.

I provided a source and all you did was attack it and not recognize the numbers.

THEN you brought up jew terrorism.

And now you get all pissy about nice #ing conversations?

Gurl, please!

a reply to: Danvero

Well. Hamas does have ties to the Muslim Brotherhood that was an ally of Nazi Germany. So there’s that.

Anyway

After the passing of the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine in 1947 which called for the establishment of independent Arab and Jewish States, a Palestinian Civil War broke out. On the declaration of the state of Israel, May 15, 1948, a full-scale war, involving also the intervention of neighbouring Arab states, took place, with casualties of 6,000 Israelis and, according to the 1958 survey by Arif al-Arif, 13,000 Palestinians[31] and the exodus, through expulsion, or panicked flight, of approximately 700,000 Arab Palestinians who subsequently became refugees.[32] In the Six-Day War, a further 280,000–360,000 Palestinians became refugees, and the remaining Palestinian territories were also occupied from Jordan and from Egypt, and later began to be settled by Jewish and Israeli settlers, while the Palestinians were placed under military administration.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

As anything, the beginning of the violence is crazy

Basically a Zionist group retaliated because British killed some Zionists. The Zionist group claimed to have assassinated the group of Arabs that sold out the Zionists.

On 21 November, Lehi issued a statement in which they assumed responsibility for the assassinations. The statement, directed at "our Arab brothers", stressed that the "Fighters for the Freedom of Israel" committed these murders because they suspected Shubaki family members to have tipped off the Palestine Police Force, claiming it had nothing to do with them being Muslim Arabs. Lehi published the names of further residents who they accused of supporting British rule, threatening to kill every one of them who doesn't cease their government support.[7]
In retaliation to this massacre, seven Yishuv were shot and killed on 30 November 1947 on two busses near Fajja, with flyers appearing shortly after explaining the killings with the Shubaki family massacre.[9][10][11][12][13] These events are widely regarded as marking the beginning of the Civil War in Mandatory Palestine.[14][15]

en.m.wikipedia.org...

The above resulted in Arab bus attacks on Jews. With no logic or ties, just terror attacks.

The first bus was the Jerusalem-bound Egged bus #2094 which had left Netanya around 7:30 AM with 21 passengers.[2] The bus was driving through the now-depopulated village of Fajja when it was intercepted by three Arabs waving, who the bus driver assumed to be hitchhikers. As he slowed down the vehicle he was met with gunfire, derailing the train off the road.[3]
The attackers stormed the bus and shot multiple people. Five Jews were killed, including a 22-year-old woman on her way to her wedding and a man who was killed trying to protect his wife.[3]
Twenty-five minutes after, a second bus going to Hadera[3] received the same treatment. Two passengers were killed.[4][5]
Mordechai Olmert, the father of future Prime Minister Ehud Olmert was one of the people who survived the second attack.[6]

en.m.wikipedia.org...

I guess it went down hill from there. But after the Muslim Brotherhood backed the Nazis, probably was not much trust to begin with with the Arabs.

The buss incidents lead to the 1947–1948 civil war in Mandatory Palestine.

1947–1948 civil war in Mandatory Palestine

Fighters and arms from abroad

German and Bosnian WWII veterans, including a handful of former intelligence, Wehrmacht, and Waffen SS officers, were among the volunteers fighting for the Palestinian cause.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

You literally had Palestinians willing to use Nazis in the first fighting against the new Israeli nation. It’s seems it’s always been about killing Jews with no real logic.

a reply to: jofafot

Funny you glance over ties of Arabs and Palestinians to Nazi Germany and the real effort to cleanse a race from the earth.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
I provided a source and all you did was attack it and not recognize the numbers.

Yeah, Deflection. It happens a lot around here.

a reply to: jofafot

Hitler's war against Jews continues in 'Palestine'

m.jpost.com...

But the Palestinian Arabs’ greatest triumph is their success in concealing their role in the Holocaust.

m.jpost.com...

Husseini was behind the anti-Jewish riots in 1920-21 and the Hebron massacre a few years later. He believed it was a religious impossibility for Muslims to share the land with Jews. Even areas where Jews formed a majority were considered to be a defilement. In 1929, Husseini distributed pamphlets saying: “O Arabs, do not forget that the Jew is your worst enemy and has been the enemy of your forefathers.” He also announced that the Jews had “violated the honour of Islam.” This led to a pogrom in Jerusalem and a massacre in Hebron, where 60 Jews were killed and the town ethnically cleansed. The British attributed the attacks to “racial animosity on the part of the Arabs.”

Seems Israel has moved on with their constitution with freedom of religion and speech.

It seems Palestinians still look back in history with hopes of cleaning the world of Jews like when they worked with Nazis.