regardless of your politics, looking at this from the outside is scary

originally posted by: Disgusted123
No one is in fear of Nazis or Christians.

What we are concerned about is the clear and present danger Republicans are to democracy. It's a real thing, and most of us don't really want Trump at the helm of a Republican State.

Perhaps a theocracy with Trump in power for a couple decades appeals to you. Not so much to me.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: BernnieJGato

I seek out actual journalists that do their own work, their own investigations but you see anything that is contradictory to the mainstream narrative will always be dismissed even it it is factual. It's just the way confirmation bias works.

BTW I do read both sides, and yes both pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian news outlets can be very biased because they need to feed a specific audience to bring in the big bucks. The left wing sources may inject shock value words the same as the right wing but sometimes within their reporting, the truth may still be there, but more research from other sources is needed to corroborate even one claim, as other members here are trying to relay.

Then there are the independent journalists who seek out a temporary voice with clicks or donations, it is those sources that we all should be seeking out and scrutinizing their investigative methods. If common sense and their reporting rings true to me and other independent reporters corroborate their findings, then to me that checks off all the boxes for me in the truth finding category.

How do you do it? Look at several pro-Israel sources that share the same information back and forth and never question anything?

After a month, we still can't decide for any certainty who bombed a hospital in Gaza and kilt 500 babies. We have seen pictures of the parking lot and the hospital still erect, but who can really say if that's factual? Have you been there in person? I haven't. It's all lies. Just depends on who wants you to believe the sh!t they peddle.

It does seem to be generally agreed upon that on October 7th, some people did some things.

Both sides have video footage, whether or not that footage can be believed is another question, you are right. Can independent people who were in war and who know the different types of damage caused by different types of strikes make cases for what are the real facts - by comparing footage or pictures, such as the damage a Hellfire missile makes to prove that civilians on Oct. 7th were hit by Hellfire missiles from the IDF?

Absolutely we all agree on Oct. 7th was a defining moment in this Israel/Hamas conflict and what happened afterwards is unprecedented in acts, words and killing of civilians. A war of revenge cannot be ignored in place of the 'defending ourselves' narrative. What most don't want to know or care to know is what led up to Oct. 7th and what lies behind other world leaders' interests to keep the massacre going. Flip that around, and what lies behind the Arab nations interests to stop imperial colonization of their lands and the continuing occupation of the Palestinian people. Or are there other shadow endgames or conspiracies at play?

Let's hope some independent journalists can get some more information with evidence that most can not easily dismiss.

Ya know I am sick of that narrative, since it obsfucates the problems in the ME. My rebuttal is going to be one-word that shatters it. KURDS!

originally posted by: hangedman13

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: BernnieJGato

I seek out actual journalists that do their own work, their own investigations but you see anything that is contradictory to the mainstream narrative will always be dismissed even it it is factual. It's just the way confirmation bias works.

BTW I do read both sides, and yes both pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian news outlets can be very biased because they need to feed a specific audience to bring in the big bucks. The left wing sources may inject shock value words the same as the right wing but sometimes within their reporting, the truth may still be there, but more research from other sources is needed to corroborate even one claim, as other members here are trying to relay.

Then there are the independent journalists who seek out a temporary voice with clicks or donations, it is those sources that we all should be seeking out and scrutinizing their investigative methods. If common sense and their reporting rings true to me and other independent reporters corroborate their findings, then to me that checks off all the boxes for me in the truth finding category.

How do you do it? Look at several pro-Israel sources that share the same information back and forth and never question anything?

After a month, we still can't decide for any certainty who bombed a hospital in Gaza and kilt 500 babies. We have seen pictures of the parking lot and the hospital still erect, but who can really say if that's factual? Have you been there in person? I haven't. It's all lies. Just depends on who wants you to believe the sh!t they peddle.

It does seem to be generally agreed upon that on October 7th, some people did some things.

Both sides have video footage, whether or not that footage can be believed is another question, you are right. Can independent people who were in war and who know the different types of damage caused by different types of strikes make cases for what are the real facts - by comparing footage or pictures, such as the damage a Hellfire missile makes to prove that civilians on Oct. 7th were hit by Hellfire missiles from the IDF?

Absolutely we all agree on Oct. 7th was a defining moment in this Israel/Hamas conflict and what happened afterwards is unprecedented in acts, words and killing of civilians. A war of revenge cannot be ignored in place of the 'defending ourselves' narrative. What most don't want to know or care to know is what led up to Oct. 7th and what lies behind other world leaders' interests to keep the massacre going. Flip that around, and what lies behind the Arab nations interests to stop imperial colonization of their lands and the continuing occupation of the Palestinian people. Or are there other shadow endgames or conspiracies at play?

Let's hope some independent journalists can get some more information with evidence that most can not easily dismiss.

Ya know I am sick of that narrative, since it obsfucates the problems in the ME. My rebuttal is going to be one-word that shatters it. KURDS!

Probably like most members here that is another research project in the never-ending search for the truth.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: BernnieJGato

I seek out actual journalists that do their own work, their own investigations but you see anything that is contradictory to the mainstream narrative will always be dismissed even it it is factual. It's just the way confirmation bias works.

BTW I do read both sides, and yes both pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian news outlets can be very biased because they need to feed a specific audience to bring in the big bucks. The left wing sources may inject shock value words the same as the right wing but sometimes within their reporting, the truth may still be there, but more research from other sources is needed to corroborate even one claim, as other members here are trying to relay.

Then there are the independent journalists who seek out a temporary voice with clicks or donations, it is those sources that we all should be seeking out and scrutinizing their investigative methods. If common sense and their reporting rings true to me and other independent reporters corroborate their findings, then to me that checks off all the boxes for me in the truth finding category.

How do you do it? Look at several pro-Israel sources that share the same information back and forth and never question anything?

After a month, we still can't decide for any certainty who bombed a hospital in Gaza and kilt 500 babies. We have seen pictures of the parking lot and the hospital still erect, but who can really say if that's factual? Have you been there in person? I haven't. It's all lies. Just depends on who wants you to believe the sh!t they peddle.

It does seem to be generally agreed upon that on October 7th, some people did some things.

Both sides have video footage, whether or not that footage can be believed is another question, you are right. Can independent people who were in war and who know the different types of damage caused by different types of strikes make cases for what are the real facts - by comparing footage or pictures, such as the damage a Hellfire missile makes to prove that civilians on Oct. 7th were hit by Hellfire missiles from the IDF?

Absolutely we all agree on Oct. 7th was a defining moment in this Israel/Hamas conflict and what happened afterwards is unprecedented in acts, words and killing of civilians. A war of revenge cannot be ignored in place of the 'defending ourselves' narrative. What most don't want to know or care to know is what led up to Oct. 7th and what lies behind other world leaders' interests to keep the massacre going. Flip that around, and what lies behind the Arab nations interests to stop imperial colonization of their lands and the continuing occupation of the Palestinian people. Or are there other shadow endgames or conspiracies at play?

Let's hope some independent journalists can get some more information with evidence that most can not easily dismiss.

Hellfire missiles are not INCENDIARY. And the "footage" of the apache attacking was verified to be attacking palestinian terrorist forces. In the vids HAMAS themselves shot the only Vehicles in the air were those para machines.

And ISRAEL/judea,belonged to the jews/hebrews. All that changed was the NAME,and that was due to the ROMANS(the OG war criminals/genocidal maniacs)changing it to try and erase them from history.
Gaza is EGYPTIAN land and its actually theirs,not Israels. Israel tried to return it at one time but they refused to take it because it was occupied by former,traitors,killers, to the egyptian people/gov.

SO keep beleiving the Joint KGB/PLO operation that is called the palestinian people if you want,but Arafatt himself and even former PLO leaders have said this is a OP to get land because they cant win in a straight up fight.

Trump is responsible for Trump.

And all that comes his way.

“The Good, Bad, and the Ugly”

a reply to: Klassified

Sorry, I read your post with my clown shoes on. You are correct as usual.

originally posted by: quintessentone

Absolutely we all agree on Oct. 7th was a defining moment in this Israel/Hamas conflict and what happened afterwards is unprecedented in acts, words and killing of civilians. A war of revenge cannot be ignored in place of the 'defending ourselves' narrative. What most don't want to know or care to know is what led up to Oct. 7th and what lies behind other world leaders' interests to keep the massacre going. Flip that around, and what lies behind the Arab nations interests to stop imperial colonization of their lands and the continuing occupation of the Palestinian people. Or are there other shadow endgames or conspiracies at play?

Let's hope some independent journalists can get some more information with evidence that most can not easily dismiss.

and if you look at your post, you notice, you didn't worry about the innocent civilians being killed until it was the folks in Gaza. On October 7th, a whole lot of innocent civilians, women, babies, and old men were killed and taken hostage. To gloss over that part just seems, so incredibly DERPish.

a reply to: yuppa

If it was verified by IDF right there is the problem.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: quintessentone

Absolutely we all agree on Oct. 7th was a defining moment in this Israel/Hamas conflict and what happened afterwards is unprecedented in acts, words and killing of civilians. A war of revenge cannot be ignored in place of the 'defending ourselves' narrative. What most don't want to know or care to know is what led up to Oct. 7th and what lies behind other world leaders' interests to keep the massacre going. Flip that around, and what lies behind the Arab nations interests to stop imperial colonization of their lands and the continuing occupation of the Palestinian people. Or are there other shadow endgames or conspiracies at play?

Let's hope some independent journalists can get some more information with evidence that most can not easily dismiss.

and if you look at your post, you notice, you didn't worry about the innocent civilians being killed until it was the folks in Gaza. On October 7th, a whole lot of innocent civilians, women, babies, and old men were killed and taken hostage. To gloss over that part just seems, so incredibly DERPish.

I absolutely felt the loss of life from both sides and again what I want is a ceasefire and removal of leaders whose only goals involve revenge and their own political interests. I didn't mention that part because my focus posting was centered on how media uses our confirmation bias to push a narrative which is the topic of your thread, being on the outside looking inside. By you looking for something that isn't there is another way to dismiss others' views or discredit them by bringing up false narratives or imagined deficiencies which you would have found weren't there in the first place. All you had to do was ask.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Klassified

Sorry, I read your post with my clown shoes on. You are correct as usual.

I think we have all done that. More often than we'd care to admit.

a reply to: network dude

I plan on voting for Trump.

I will NEVER vote democrat ever again. Until I'm dead that is.

The right though, they want Nikki Haley.

And she scares me more than Biden!

originally posted by: Coelacanth55
the Democrats, virtually all the media, virtually all of academia, and a lot of young / tech business people
are all on the same leftist progressive page.

right now Donald Trump is the primary opponent.

if he loses the Republican nomination, the person who wins will be the prime adversary.
remember how all those people raged hysterically about George W Bush? McCain, once he was the nominee?
they promoted Mitt Romney as a new Hitler.
once defeated, they ignored him.
when a McCain or Romney criticizes other Republicans they get fawning praise. I wonder if they think they've somehow converted them.

as far as promoting a 'dictatorship', look how the Democrats operate behind closed doors in their election counting,
especially in the big cities.
look how the Democrats sue to prevent Green and other leftist parties / candidates off ballots. look how angry they get about redistricting.

You are exactly right. This isn't about Trump, it's about whomever opposes the Marxist democrats. Whether it be Romney, McCain, or Desantis, that person will be named the "New Hitler" and will "destroy the United States".

This is about us, the American citizens. Not Quint, who isn't even American, this is about the United States citizens. They are after us, and Trump is the only brave one to stand in their way.

a reply to: network dude

A good read dude... Im too lazy to type out large threads, however in short ...
it seems to me that we all suffer from(spanning the globe) identity ideology.
To me its what divides us and keeps as from being strong and just throughout the globe.

a reply to: Kenzo

Yep. Propaganda can be a forceful meme tossed at minds that have little knowledge of what is being pushed at them. They are also, again in my own words, gluey, sticky. Advertising uses them all the time. They can take the form of a simple word or growing more complex, jingles. Add to the jingle a simple musical tune and it becomes a powerful influence that can run in a mind enough so that when a person drives by a McDonald's it pops up into their consciousness and the next thing the person knows they are turning into the drive through line. The Army used one for a couple of decades, remember? Sing along, ''Be all that you can be, in the Army''. Very successful.

Sci/fi writer Philip k Dick pointed to them in much of his work though the term meme'' had not yet come about I don't think.

In a way, I was taught to be wary of them way back. I had an English teacher that taught us about cliches. You know, those common usage phrases that are repeated over and over without even thinking about them? We hear them all the time. Well my teacher taught us that using cliches was a cheap form of communication, a cheap way of thinking that relied upuon simplistic mental processes that rather than searching for a more original way of saying something, just relied on a ''plug-in'' comment to suffice. It was his tutelage that years later quirked my mind when I first encountered the idea of memetics.

But please do not take any of my ideas about memetics as gospel as it as a science has not become more studied as it's study is rather spotted and in many cases dismissed by now. Read up on it yourself if you like. I suppose one reason that it is not more popular is it calls into question the very notion of what we are as supposedly ''thinking people'' and very few are willing to look into that.

The foundation of memetics in its full modern incarnation was launched by Douglas Rushkoff's Media Virus: Hidden Agendas in Popular Culture in 1995,[11] and was accelerated with the publication in 1996 of two more books by authors outside the academic mainstream: Virus of the Mind: The New Science of the Meme by former Microsoft executive turned motivational speaker and professional poker-player Richard Brodie, and Thought Contagion: How Belief Spreads Through Society by Aaron Lynch, a mathematician and philosopher who worked for many years as an engineer at Fermilab.

Since I am going on and on here I also have another little interesting story to contribute. While looking for a link fo you on memetics, there are many, I glanced at Wiki and found a bit on it there. It mentioned the sci/fi novel I had read but also mentioned that the whole idea, which was not called memetics at the time was brought up by William S Burroughs s in a 1962 story called ''The Ticket That Exploded''. I found that interesting as I knew of Burroughs so I clicked on the link to that book. There I read about it being one of a trilogy with the other two books being '' Soft Machine'' and ''The Electronic Revolution.

I know that this is even off topic for the thread and even our conversation here but I still want to tell someone. For decades one of my strange musical kinks was a group I heard back in the late sixties and was stunned by. I never found anyone else who liked their music or had for that matter even heard of them. I had been listening to them just two days ago for the first time in a decade and wondered, as I had wondered over the years, just how they had come up with their name. The name of that obscure band was,,,,Soft Machine.

So for that alone Kenzo, I want to thank you for sending me off on a short little journey that in the end has just tickled my fancy, ''tickled my fancy''' being a cliche that my old English teacher had warned me about.

originally posted by: network dude
The abject fear of a second Trump presidency is at a staggeringly alarming level. It doesn't matter if you love him or hate him, but have you ever in your life seen such a coordinated effort against one man?

Not in my lifetime, I have not.

But there are examples in our history when a nation, or nations, had to coordinate efforts against such a person. When millions of people felt an existential threat to peace and democracy, the same as what is motivating people now.

And I bet we just repeated history in this thread... I bet there was someone at all those points in history when they said - "have you ever seen anything this coordinated against one man?"

Yeah, it happens from time to time. History rhymes often.

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: yuppa

If it was verified by IDF right there is the problem.

OK if thats not good enough the footage was at NIGHT, apparently.

checkyourfact.com...

And it was apparently at NIGHT,since it was using you know...night vision. And it was october 9th the helicopter footage was from.

a reply to: Mahogani

Trump is not hitler. Deporting illegals and non americans is also not a bad thing to do.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: bigginpc

originally posted by: Threadbarer
a reply to: bigginpc

You must not have searched that hard considering they have their own website called Project2025.org.

Notice how everyone involved has been closely tied to Trump in the past.

Thanks , for the link.
I found was a few former staffers who have no current connection former president Trump or any other presidential campaigns
I also found a that two of their largest financial contributers are liberals.

www.thedailybeast.com...

I'm curious, does anyone have the time and inclination to go through the listed groups in the project2025.org and let me know who they stand with or what they stand for or who's money backs them and/or if they are conservative, independent, or liberals?

www.project2025.org...

They are a conservative group that wants to get conservatives elected, and want the next president to follow the guidelines that they believe will help the country the most.

Here are the 4 promises they want the next president to make:

1. Restore the family as the centerpiece of American life and protect our children.
2. Dismantle the administrative state and return self-governance to the American people.
3. Defend our nation’s sovereignty, borders, and bounty against global threats.
4. Secure our God-given individual rights to live freely—what our Constitution calls “the Blessings of Liberty.”

What makes these four pieces of the conservative promise so valuable to the
next President is that they cut through superficial distractions and focus on the
moral and foundational challenges America faces in this moment of history. This
was one of the secrets of conservatives’ success in the Reagan Era, one our generation should emulate

Their book:
Mandate for Leadership: The Conservative Promise

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: yuppa

If it was verified by IDF right there is the problem.

OK if thats not good enough the footage was at NIGHT, apparently.

checkyourfact.com...

And it was apparently at NIGHT,since it was using you know...night vision. And it was october 9th the helicopter footage was from.

Again, I can find sources which question that narrative.

There are also videos which show the fighters engaging in shootouts with armed Israeli forces, where there were unarmed Israelis taking cover in between, in addition to videos of fighters shooting toward houses and throwing grenades into fortified areas. Eyewitness testimony also suggests grenades were thrown into bomb shelters, though by whom is unclear.

Even at the Israeli “peace rave”, which has been cited as the single deadliest attack committed by Palestinian fighters during their operation, videos emerged that appeared to show Israeli forces opening fire through a crowd of unarmed civilians, toward targets they believed to be Hamas members. ABC News also reported that an Israeli tank had headed to the site of the festival.

Additionally, videos of the scene show homes that appear to have been struck by munitions that Hamas fighters did not possess. Muir reported that about 14 people were held hostage in a building by Palestinian fighters.

Photo evidence of the destruction in Be’eri corroborates his account. Only the heavy munitions of the Israeli army could have destroyed residential homes in this manner.

Increasingly, and to the horror of some Israeli officials and news outlets, Israeli eyewitnesses and survivors of the bloodshed are testifying that they were treated well by Palestinian fighters. On 24 October, Israeli state broadcaster Kan bemoaned the fact that prisoner Yocheved Lif#z, released by Hamas the day before, was allowed to make statements live on air.

new.thecradle.co...

And yet another source stated by viewing footage of October 7th, Hamas were in and out of there from 6:30 am to 10:30 am while others came through the gates with them and after them.

So, you see there are many different perspectives.

a reply to: DBCowboy

The right though, they want Nikki Haley.

And she scares me more than Biden!

Indeed. *shudders*