Israeli Politician admits 12,000 Palestinians have died so far but... they're mostly terrorists!

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow
a reply to: Leviathan4

That's not true as you are using the false equivalency argument again.

Criticisms of Israel don't equate to hate of Jews. Even you can understand this!

This is a debunked argument you are keep pushing....

The argument here has been lost long time ago by those who unequivocally support Israel. If you haven't realised it.

Mate what are you talking about ? In fact who are you talking to because it's not me , Is this one of those times when you're trying to convince yourself and not me ??

Debunked by whom exactly ??? The circle of Media that you surround yourself with ? Mate only a fool lies to there self .

It's not a False Equivalency at all stop using terms you clearly don't understand . One side started it the other is finishing it This is a long time in the making .

Again that's not true as you are using the false equivalency argument. You have repeated it now a few times.

Criticisms of Israel don't equate to hate of Jews. Even you can understand this! I am sure you can!

This is a debunked argument you are keep pushing.... And others have fine the same.

The argument here has been lost long time ago by those who unequivocally support Israel. If you haven't realised it yet. But you seem not to...

If you think criticisms and condemnations ot the State of Israel is hate of Jews or anti-semitism then you are mistaken. It's a debunked argument as the definition of anti-semitism and hate have nothing to do with the State of Israel and the policies of its Government.

You may want to take a look at Mrs Suzanne Weiss who is a holocaust survivor (one of my other threads) and fiercely criticised Israel for the mistreatment of the Palestinians over the last 70+ years and the crimes committed by Israel against them. Is this Jewish person anti-semitic and a Jew hater? Do you see how absurd these arguments are?

www.greenleft.org.au...

She said that Israel is turning Gaza into a death camp.

I mean it's very difficult to deal with a holocaust survivor who has confirmed what most of you who unequivocally support Israel don't want to hear.

a reply to: Degradation33

There is no support for Hamas but there is support for the IDF by some members.

I am afraid you're using the false equivalency argument where support for Palestinians or s ceasefire is called support for Hamas and it's a terrible argument.

You can't rely on IDF for the news as some people do. They ate not credible. Recently they claimed there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza when in fact there is a humanitarian catastrophy.

The 12,000 figure given its likely much higher end they are most civilians and not terrorists as claimed.

amp.theguardian.com...

According to the independent Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor, which is chaired by US emeritus law professor and former UN special rapporteur on Palestine, Richard Falk, the civilian death toll as of 20 November is 16,413, with nearly 34,000 injured. This would mean one in every 142 Palestinian civilians killed in a month and a half.

As for the hospital, because someone else brought it up to justify the crimes committed against civilians by the IDF, I haven't taken party in the various conversations in a number of threads on this topic but from a quick search, the IDF discovered tunnels that most likely created by Israel sometime ago.

theintercept.com...

Al-Shifa's Tunnels Were Built by Israel
We know that because Israel admits that it built them in the early 1980s. According to Israeli media reports, the underground facilities were designed by Tel Aviv architects Gershon Zippor and Benjamin Idelson.

originally posted by: BernnieJGato
a reply to: NorthOS

i was going to post that the fact Israel built the tunnels doesn't negate the fact hamas has taken control of them and adapted them for their purposes.

and just because you repost the same thing with obscure unverifiable numbers doesn't make it a true fact it is just a guestiment based on past numbers which aren't the same, because many palestiians some giuesstiments say hunfreds of thousands have moved south in gaza to the Rafah border away from the operations to eradicate palistinians who are hamas terrorist combatants. as i said before i said before, the number of dead non terrorist combatants is speculation at best.

plus one important part that wasn't posted was, what the former prime minster said.

On November 20, former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak told CNN's Christiane Amanpour that decades ago Israeli contractors helped build some of the underground infrastructure beneath the hospital that was later used by Hamas. When asked by Amanpour if he misspoke, Barak said he did not. "No no, you know, some decades ago we were running the place...so we helped them... we helped them to build these bunkers in order to enable more space for the operation of the hospital," Barak said, visibly throwing off Amanpour mid-interview.
Fact Check: Did Israel Build Bunker Under Shifa Hospital?

You have replied to the wrong member I suspect but take a look at my post above.

The rest of your post is just an attempt at justifying the situation and that operations by the IDF but are not very convincing.

Forced expulsion is a war crime by the way.

I see .... So your just saying the same thing over and over again . Now I feel quite dumb for debating you .

Don't get your accounts confused

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow
I see .... So your just saying the same thing over and over again . Now I feel quite dumb for debating you .

Don't get your accounts confused

No I am not. I am trying to bring to your attention again the points you seem to be avoiding.

For example you made the argument I hate the Jews with no evidence given. And I told you that criticisms of Israel and its policies don't equate to hate of Jews and anti-semitism. It's rather simple and self explanatory.

It's actually the standard argument when there are no valid arguments one can make to support Israel.

a reply to: Leviathan4

I love false equivalency. And hypocritical pot/kettle arguments. Only conversations that spiral circuitously into fallacy will suffice.

I attribute support of Hamas by proxy. And I have a really low criteria too. Like, if you use the unfairly forced-to-be-inflated civilian death count to demonize Israel, I don't value the opinion, and deem it sympathetic to Hamas.

It's like, If you can't see that atrocity was made unavoidable by inhumane tactics and NEVER concede HAMAS IS KEEPING THEM THERE TO DIE, I will automatically determine that position aligned with Hamas, despite it never being acknowledged directly.

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow
I see .... So your just saying the same thing over and over again . Now I feel quite dumb for debating you .

Don't get your accounts confused

No I am not. I am trying to bring to your attention again the points you seem to be avoiding.

For example you made the argument I hate the Jews with no evidence given. And I told you that criticisms of Israel and its policies don't equate to hate of Jews and anti-semitism. It's rather simple and self explanatory.

It's actually the standard argument when there are no valid arguments one can make to support Israel.

Do you realize how Obvious it is that you're using an AI ?

a reply to: Degradation33

I attribute support of Hamas by proxy. And I have a really low criteria too. Like, if you use the unfairly forced-to-be-inflated civilian death count to demonize Israel, I don't value the opinion, and deem it sympathetic to Hamas.
It's like, If you can't see that atrocity was made unavoidable by inhumane tactics and NEVER concede HAMAS IS KEEPING THEM THERE TO DIE, I will automatically determine that position aligned with Hamas, despite it never being acknowledged directly.

yes Yes and YES.

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow
I see .... So your just saying the same thing over and over again . Now I feel quite dumb for debating you .

Don't get your accounts confused

No I am not. I am trying to bring to your attention again the points you seem to be avoiding.

For example you made the argument I hate the Jews with no evidence given. And I told you that criticisms of Israel and its policies don't equate to hate of Jews and anti-semitism. It's rather simple and self explanatory.

It's actually the standard argument when there are no valid arguments one can make to support Israel.

Do you realize how Obvious it is that you're using an AI ?

Chatgpt, to be more specific.

originally posted by: SourGrapes

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow
I see .... So your just saying the same thing over and over again . Now I feel quite dumb for debating you .

Don't get your accounts confused

No I am not. I am trying to bring to your attention again the points you seem to be avoiding.

For example you made the argument I hate the Jews with no evidence given. And I told you that criticisms of Israel and its policies don't equate to hate of Jews and anti-semitism. It's rather simple and self explanatory.

It's actually the standard argument when there are no valid arguments one can make to support Israel.

Do you realize how Obvious it is that you're using an AI ?

Chatgpt, to be more specific.

Sad really . Someone needs a computer to make arguments for them .

a reply to: Leviathan4

no i replied to who i intended to.

and the intercept is a left bias fish wraper who's cofounder resigned over how unfair and biased the editors are.

Co-Founder Glenn Greenwald's Accusations of Bias In Oct. 2020, Intercept co-founder Glenn Greenwald resigned from the publication, accusing it of censorship and bias in an open letter. The Intercept responded with a statement denying the allegations. Greenwald wrote in part:

"The final, precipitating cause [for my resignation] is that The Intercept’s editors, in violation of my contractual right of editorial freedom, censored an article I wrote this week, refusing to publish it unless I remove all sections critical of Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden, the candidate vehemently supported by all New-York-based Intercept editors involved in this effort at suppression. ... "I had no objection to their disagreement with my views of what this Biden evidence shows: as a last-ditch attempt to avoid being censored, I encouraged them to air their disagreements with me by writing their own articles that critique my perspectives and letting readers decide who is right, the way any confident and healthy media outlet would. But modern media outlets do not air dissent; they quash it. So censorship of my article, rather than engagement with it, was the path these Biden-supporting editors chose

there more from him at the link.

and on top of that they took money from a liberal crook

In September 2022, The Intercept received $500,000 as part of a larger $4 million grant from Sam Bankman-Fried's foundation. After Sam Bankman-Fried's arrest for fraud, a spokesperson for The Intercept said, "At this time, we are still gathering the information we need to make a principled decision in accordance with our mission and values." The funding from SBF has lead to accusations of bias in their coverage of SBF and the fall of his cryptocurrency FTX.

The Intercept

why would i even trust or put any stock in their reporting. for that matter i wouldn't even hang the intercept as a wiping implement im my hunting cabins out house.

a reply to: asabuvsobelow

i actually think it's the far left sock of pair of left socks that are always talking to one another. but it could be AI.

a reply to: BernnieJGato

There were similar style posts using similar arguments a year or so ago.

The Russia Ukraine topic.

a reply to: NorthOS

careful they might suspect your are replying to them, and take the opportunity to post the same things over and over and say your not very convincing. like they are the one convincing everyone that they are right using unverifiable numbers based on past unverifiable numbers.

originally posted by: Degradation33
a reply to: Leviathan4

I love false equivalency. And hypocritical pot/kettle arguments. Only conversations that spiral circuitously into fallacy will suffice.

I attribute support of Hamas by proxy. And I have a really low criteria too. Like, if you use the unfairly forced-to-be-inflated civilian death count to demonize Israel, I don't value the opinion, and deem it sympathetic to Hamas.

It's like, If you can't see that atrocity was made unavoidable by inhumane tactics and NEVER concede HAMAS IS KEEPING THEM THERE TO DIE, I will automatically determine that position aligned with Hamas, despite it never being acknowledged directly.

If you are using false equivalency arguments then you must know these have no weight in a conversation and debate. Support for a ceasefire and peace cannot be equated to support for Hamas. Is that simple.

As to the inflated number of deaths, if the Israeli Politician accepts there are 12,000 deaths then you can imagine how many more have now died and injured.

amp.theguardian.com...

According to the independent Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor, which is chaired by US emeritus law professor and former UN special rapporteur on Palestine, Richard Falk, the civilian death toll as of 20 November is 16,413, with nearly 34,000 injured. This would mean one in every 142 Palestinian civilians killed in a month and a half.

And the presence of Hamas and other jihadi groups in the area isn't a justification for mass slaughter of civilians.

originally posted by: BernnieJGato
a reply to: Leviathan4

no i replied to who i intended to.

and the intercept is a left bias fish wraper who's cofounder resigned over how unfair and biased the editors are.

Co-Founder Glenn Greenwald's Accusations of Bias In Oct. 2020, Intercept co-founder Glenn Greenwald resigned from the publication, accusing it of censorship and bias in an open letter. The Intercept responded with a statement denying the allegations. Greenwald wrote in part:

"The final, precipitating cause [for my resignation] is that The Intercept’s editors, in violation of my contractual right of editorial freedom, censored an article I wrote this week, refusing to publish it unless I remove all sections critical of Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden, the candidate vehemently supported by all New-York-based Intercept editors involved in this effort at suppression. ... "I had no objection to their disagreement with my views of what this Biden evidence shows: as a last-ditch attempt to avoid being censored, I encouraged them to air their disagreements with me by writing their own articles that critique my perspectives and letting readers decide who is right, the way any confident and healthy media outlet would. But modern media outlets do not air dissent; they quash it. So censorship of my article, rather than engagement with it, was the path these Biden-supporting editors chose

there more from him at the link.

and on top of that they took money from a liberal crook

In September 2022, The Intercept received $500,000 as part of a larger $4 million grant from Sam Bankman-Fried's foundation. After Sam Bankman-Fried's arrest for fraud, a spokesperson for The Intercept said, "At this time, we are still gathering the information we need to make a principled decision in accordance with our mission and values." The funding from SBF has lead to accusations of bias in their coverage of SBF and the fall of his cryptocurrency FTX.

The Intercept

why would i even trust or put any stock in their reporting. for that matter i wouldn't even hang the intercept as a wiping implement im my hunting cabins out house.

I understand that you're trying to attack the source I used but unfortunately you haven't done much there when t the same time you understand that the Hospital tunnels, that you have all talked about in other threads, were constructed by Israel for whatever purposes long time ago. But in a conversation this needs to be made clear and it hasn't been made clear. People think Hamas constructed them. But again regardless of who has constructed them and who is using them, it isn't a justification for mass slaughter of innocent civilians.

Al-Shifa's Tunnels Were Built by Israel
We know that because Israel admits that it built them in the early 1980s. According to Israeli media reports, the underground facilities were designed by Tel Aviv architects Gershon Zippor and Benjamin Idelson.

theintercept.com...

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow
a reply to: Degradation33

I attribute support of Hamas by proxy. And I have a really low criteria too. Like, if you use the unfairly forced-to-be-inflated civilian death count to demonize Israel, I don't value the opinion, and deem it sympathetic to Hamas.
It's like, If you can't see that atrocity was made unavoidable by inhumane tactics and NEVER concede HAMAS IS KEEPING THEM THERE TO DIE, I will automatically determine that position aligned with Hamas, despite it never being acknowledged directly.

yes Yes and YES.

No, NO and NO.

Making false equivalency statements and claims takes you nowhere in a conversation. They're worthless and easily debunked. You can't equate support for ceasefire and peace or support for the Palestinian cause to support for Hamas.

a reply to: asabuvsobelow
a reply to: SourGrapes

So after the false equivalency statements where support for ceasefire and peace are equated to support for Hamas (a debunked argument) now the claim is AI and ChatGPT?!

Did you think of it by yourselves or you had some help coming up with this great argument...

It shows clearly why when you support the wrong cause you can't make any cogent arguments and are trying desperately to find something to hold on to.

I will be more concerned if I was you with the admission made by this politician, who not only says 12,000 people have been killed in Gaza but he labels them as terrorists.

originally posted by: BernnieJGato
a reply to: NorthOS

careful they might suspect your are replying to them, and take the opportunity to post the same things over and over and say your not very convincing. like they are the one convincing everyone that they are right using unverifiable numbers based on past unverifiable numbers.

Clearly they're not convincing when they use debunked false equivalency claims by equating support for ceasefire to support for Hamas.

originally posted by: NorthOS
a reply to: BernnieJGato

There were similar style posts using similar arguments a year or so ago.

The Russia Ukraine topic.

Not really....your argument is completely fabricated.