Israeli Politician admits 12,000 Palestinians have died so far but... they're mostly terrorists!

a reply to: Leviathan4

You’ve insisted time and time again that Israel is targeting civilians for no reason and on purpose for no military gain.

Intentionally targeting civilians, buildings such as schools or houses and infrastructure like water sources or sanitation facilities is a war crime. Killing or injuring a person who has surrendered or is no longer able to fight is also prohibited, as is punishing someone for an act that another person, even a family member, has committed.

Attacks should only be directed at military objectives, and military targets such as bases and stockpiles should not be placed in or near populated areas.

If the expected "incidental civilian damage" of an attack is "excessive and disproportionate" to the anticipated military gain, then the attack legally cannot be carried out.

There is one caveat: a civilian structures, for example a school, may become a legitimate target if it is being used for specific military operations — as a base to launch attacks, for example, or a weapons storehouse.

www.npr.org...

The second paragraph contains the actual war crime committed which triggers the caveat in the last paragraph.

originally posted by: NorthOS
a reply to: Leviathan4

You’ve insisted time and time again that Israel is targeting civilians for no reason and on purpose for no military gain.

Intentionally targeting civilians, buildings such as schools or houses and infrastructure like water sources or sanitation facilities is a war crime. Killing or injuring a person who has surrendered or is no longer able to fight is also prohibited, as is punishing someone for an act that another person, even a family member, has committed.

Attacks should only be directed at military objectives, and military targets such as bases and stockpiles should not be placed in or near populated areas.

If the expected "incidental civilian damage" of an attack is "excessive and disproportionate" to the anticipated military gain, then the attack legally cannot be carried out.

There is one caveat: a civilian structures, for example a school, may become a legitimate target if it is being used for specific military operations — as a base to launch attacks, for example, or a weapons storehouse.

www.npr.org...

The second paragraph contains the actual war crime committed which triggers the caveat in the last paragraph.

The war crimes committed have been recorded very well and the number of civilian deaths is a testimony to this regardless of what the guy said about 12,000 terrorists.

1) Complete siege of Gaza
2) Incitement to genocide
3) Collective punishment
4) Forced expulsion
5) Disproportional aerial bombardment of the civilian population
6) Attacks on civilian structures, hospitals, and humanitarian workers

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: NorthOS
a reply to: Leviathan4

You’ve insisted time and time again that Israel is targeting civilians for no reason and on purpose for no military gain.

Intentionally targeting civilians, buildings such as schools or houses and infrastructure like water sources or sanitation facilities is a war crime. Killing or injuring a person who has surrendered or is no longer able to fight is also prohibited, as is punishing someone for an act that another person, even a family member, has committed.

Attacks should only be directed at military objectives, and military targets such as bases and stockpiles should not be placed in or near populated areas.

If the expected "incidental civilian damage" of an attack is "excessive and disproportionate" to the anticipated military gain, then the attack legally cannot be carried out.

There is one caveat: a civilian structures, for example a school, may become a legitimate target if it is being used for specific military operations — as a base to launch attacks, for example, or a weapons storehouse.

www.npr.org...

The second paragraph contains the actual war crime committed which triggers the caveat in the last paragraph.

The war crimes committed have been recorded very well and the number of civilian deaths is a testimony to this regardless of what the guy said about 12,000 terrorists.

1) Complete siege of Gaza
2) Incitement to genocide
3) Collective punishment
4) Forced expulsion
5) Disproportional aerial bombardment of the civilian population
6) Attacks on civilian structures, hospitals, and humanitarian workers

I bolded "hospitals".

Where palestinians were stockpiling weapons, bombs and rockets and where their tunnels were.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: NorthOS
a reply to: Leviathan4

You’ve insisted time and time again that Israel is targeting civilians for no reason and on purpose for no military gain.

Intentionally targeting civilians, buildings such as schools or houses and infrastructure like water sources or sanitation facilities is a war crime. Killing or injuring a person who has surrendered or is no longer able to fight is also prohibited, as is punishing someone for an act that another person, even a family member, has committed.

Attacks should only be directed at military objectives, and military targets such as bases and stockpiles should not be placed in or near populated areas.

If the expected "incidental civilian damage" of an attack is "excessive and disproportionate" to the anticipated military gain, then the attack legally cannot be carried out.

There is one caveat: a civilian structures, for example a school, may become a legitimate target if it is being used for specific military operations — as a base to launch attacks, for example, or a weapons storehouse.

www.npr.org...

The second paragraph contains the actual war crime committed which triggers the caveat in the last paragraph.

The war crimes committed have been recorded very well and the number of civilian deaths is a testimony to this regardless of what the guy said about 12,000 terrorists.

1) Complete siege of Gaza
2) Incitement to genocide
3) Collective punishment
4) Forced expulsion
5) Disproportional aerial bombardment of the civilian population
6) Attacks on civilian structures, hospitals, and humanitarian workers

I bolded "hospitals".

Where palestinians were stockpiling weapons, bombs and rockets and where their tunnels were.

You seem to forget that when you're having civilians all over the place and you attack a hospital then you are most likely to kill civilians rather than terrorists and regardless of what the guy said when he labelled 12,000 dead as terrorists. That cannot be right. There is no justification in these attacks.

As for the tunnels you were trying to argue they were created by Hamas but it seems they were most likely created by Israel sometime ago.

theintercept.com...

Al-Shifa's Tunnels Were Built by Israel
We know that because Israel admits that it built them in the early 1980s. According to Israeli media reports, the underground facilities were designed by Tel Aviv architects Gershon Zippor and Benjamin Idelson.

a reply to: DBCowboy

a reply to: NorthOS



let me remind you again I wasn't wrong about the hospital as I didn't make any claims or any threads about it by taking some position. You're probably confusing me again with someone else. You need to admit that you don't know who has said what. If you find any posts that I made or anything else then I can happily discuss it.

You seem to want to be going off topic and are not able to address the thread about the 12,000 that according to the politician were terrorists....

As for the Hospital and since you brought it up
take a look at my last post.


theintercept.com...

Al-Shifa's Tunnels Were Built by Israel
We know that because Israel admits that it built them in the early 1980s. According to Israeli media reports, the underground facilities were designed by Tel Aviv architects Gershon Zippor and Benjamin Idelson.

You guys have been trying to argue these are tunnels created by Hamas by they were most likely created by Israel.

So I will ask you again,

Do you know what else was created by Israel?!

originally posted by: NorthOS
a reply to: DBCowboy

LMFAO.

Yeah, but the deliberate overlooking of Hamas (and tactics) is like some brainwashed woman in denial about her serial killer husband.

"He must have went hunting in this nice dress shirt. And then skined the animal while wearing it, and had to tie it to the roof with rope, and it's perfectly normal to do that 3 times a month, at 1 AM, and never have any meat, and all these missing college girls are just a coincidence. He's just going through a lot, as he says."

a reply to: Leviathan4

I think you’re missing the point.

It’s about who’s using the tunnels now and for what purpose.

a reply to: Degradation33

I’m going to stop. I don’t want to derail any thread, everyone has a right to discuss thier topic.

But ya, you nailed it

originally posted by: NorthOS
a reply to: Leviathan4

I think you’re missing the point.

It’s about who’s using the tunnels now and for what purpose.

I never claimed they are not used by Hamas. But again that doesn't justify the war crimes committed by Israel and the mass killings of thousands of innocent civilians and despite the fact the politician has labelled them 12,000 mostly terrorists...

Anyone who has read these threads and online reports has created the wrong impression that these tunnels were constructed by Hamas. But that's most likely not true and regardless of who is using them now.

But the existence of Hamas and their operations isn't a justification for mass murder of innocent civilians and has never been no matter how many times you have tried to justify it.

Israel has been isolated from the rest of the world and the ICC is gathering evidence for crimes committed by both sides.

originally posted by: NorthOS
a reply to: Degradation33

I’m going to stop. I don’t want to derail any thread, everyone has a right to discuss thier topic.

But ya, you nailed it

Great as you guys haven't been doing well with all these posts and trying to excuse war crimes and crimes against humanity or to argue what the politician said that 12,000 dead are mostly terrorists.

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: NorthOS
a reply to: Degradation33

I’m going to stop. I don’t want to derail any thread, everyone has a right to discuss thier topic.

But ya, you nailed it

Great as you guys haven't been doing well with all these posts and trying to excuse war crimes and crimes against humanity or to argue what the politician said that 12,000 dead are mostly terrorists.

Yeah as soon as the IDF starts cleaning house it's a ' War Crime ' .

Get over it mate . The Israelis have every right to defend and fight for their country . Yes they are Jewish and you hate them blah bah blah .

Funny thing I don't hate anyone for being who they are including Palestinians .

a reply to: NorthOS

These threads inevitably devolve into support of the Hamas narrative vs. Support of IDF. The Hospitals are an excellent reason WHY the Israel minister has to admit to a high number of casualties. It's obvious.

Hamas keep civilians in value areas deliberately to inflate the casualties, and it gets overlooked like, "If not a hospital, where else should they store their rockets and weapons? The orphanage? The primary school?"

It all part of the same bias. It's denial of the actions of one, and demonization of the other. One I have if you asked the other side.

Only country I've ever seen that can't enter a justified war and use justified tactics.

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: NorthOS
a reply to: Degradation33

I’m going to stop. I don’t want to derail any thread, everyone has a right to discuss thier topic.

But ya, you nailed it

Great as you guys haven't been doing well with all these posts and trying to excuse war crimes and crimes against humanity or to argue what the politician said that 12,000 dead are mostly terrorists.

Yeah as soon as the IDF starts cleaning house it's a ' War Crime '

.

Get over it mate . The Israelis have every right to defend and fight for their country . Yes they are Jewish and you hate them blah bah blah .

Funny thing I don't hate anyone for being who they are including Palestinians .

The IDF has committed war crimes and crimes against humanity.

And no I don't hate the Jews and I am not an Arab.

Your using the false equivalency argument that has been debunked again and again. Criticisms of Israel don't equate to hate of Jews. Even you can understand this!

And no the 12,000 killed were not terrorists in their majorities but civilians.

You need to open a dictionary to see what self defense means as you seem to have confused it's meaning.

The ICC is gathering evidence for these war crimes and doesn't seem them as self defense by the way.

a reply to: Degradation33

Only country I've ever seen that can't enter a justified war and use justified tactics.

Can't have Jewish people defending themselves.

a reply to: Leviathan4

I never said you were an Arab I said you hate Jewish people for being Jewish

Was Hamas defending its self on Oct 7th ? Did Hamas commit War Crimes on Oct 7th . Were the Palestinians in the streets celebrating and spitting on dead Jews defending themselves ?

Do not come crying to me or anyone else because you are weaker than your adversary. Don't start fights you can't win , Life is about the follow through not the short sited beginning.

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow
a reply to: Leviathan4

I never said you were an Arab I said you hate Jewish people for being Jewish

Was Hamas defending its self on Oct 7th ? Did Hamas commit War Crimes on Oct 7th . Were the Palestinians in the streets celebrating and spitting on dead Jews defending themselves ?

Do not come crying to me or anyone else because you are weaker than your adversary. Don't start fights you can't win , Life is about the follow through not the short sited beginning.

That's not true as you are using the false equivalency argument again.

Criticisms of Israel don't equate to hate of Jews. Even you can understand this!

This is a debunked argument you are keep pushing....

The argument here has been lost long time ago by those who unequivocally support Israel. If you haven't realised it.

Israel has committed war crimes and crimes against humanity. Yes, Hamas committed war crimes on the 7th of October but Israel has replied by committing war crimes too and by killing thousands of innocent civilians who are not terrorists as the politician said (topic of this thread).

originally posted by: Degradation33
a reply to: NorthOS

These threads inevitably devolve into support of the Hamas narrative vs. Support of IDF. The Hospitals are an excellent reason WHY the Israel minister has to admit to a high number of casualties. It's obvious.

Hamas keep civilians in value areas deliberately to inflate the casualties, and it gets overlooked like, "If not a hospital, where else should they store their rockets and weapons? The orphanage? The primary school?"

It all part of the same bias. It's denial of the actions of one, and demonization of the other. One I have if you asked the other side.

Only country I've ever seen that can't enter a justified war and use justified tactics.

There is no support for Hamas but there is support for the IDF by some members.

I am afraid you're using the false equivalency argument where support for Palestinians or s ceasefire is called support for Hamas and it's a terrible argument.

You can't rely on IDF for the news as some people do. They ate not credible. Recently they claimed there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza when in fact there is a humanitarian catastrophy.

The 12,000 figure given its likely much higher end they are most civilians and not terrorists as claimed.

amp.theguardian.com...

According to the independent Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor, which is chaired by US emeritus law professor and former UN special rapporteur on Palestine, Richard Falk, the civilian death toll as of 20 November is 16,413, with nearly 34,000 injured. This would mean one in every 142 Palestinian civilians killed in a month and a half.

As for the hospital, because someone else brought it up to justify the crimes committed against civilians by the IDF, I haven't taken party in the various conversations in a number of threads on this topic but from a quick search, the IDF discovered tunnels that most likely created by Israel sometime ago.

Link in my posts above

Al-Shifa's Tunnels Were Built by Israel
We know that because Israel admits that it built them in the early 1980s. According to Israeli media reports, the underground facilities were designed by Tel Aviv architects Gershon Zippor and Benjamin Idelson.

a reply to: Leviathan4

That's not true as you are using the false equivalency argument again.

Criticisms of Israel don't equate to hate of Jews. Even you can understand this!

This is a debunked argument you are keep pushing....

The argument here has been lost long time ago by those who unequivocally support Israel. If you haven't realised it.

Mate what are you talking about ? In fact who are you talking to because it's not me , Is this one of those times when you're trying to convince yourself and not me ??

Debunked by whom exactly ??? The circle of Media that you surround yourself with ? Mate only a fool lies to there self .

It's not a False Equivalency at all stop using terms you clearly don't understand . One side started it the other is finishing it This is a long time in the making .

for example.

I walk up and punch Mike Tyson in the face a bunch of times and then I run through the streets gloating about how yes I punched Mike Tyson in the face and I'm happy about it .

Then Mike Tyson Beats my ass all over the place . Am I gonna sue him and claim assault ? Nope I'd say I had that beating coming .

a reply to: NorthOS

i was going to post that the fact Israel built the tunnels doesn't negate the fact hamas has taken control of them and adapted them for their purposes.

and just because you repost the same thing with obscure unverifiable numbers doesn't make it a true fact it is just a guestiment based on past numbers which aren't the same, because many palestiians some giuesstiments say hungreds of thousands have moved south in gaza to the Rafah border away from the operations to eradicate palistinians who are hamas terrorist combatants. as i said before i said before, the number of dead non terrorist combatants is speculation at best.

plus one important part that wasn't posted was, what the former prime minster said.

On November 20, former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak told CNN's Christiane Amanpour that decades ago Israeli contractors helped build some of the underground infrastructure beneath the hospital that was later used by Hamas. When asked by Amanpour if he misspoke, Barak said he did not. "No no, you know, some decades ago we were running the place...so we helped them... we helped them to build these bunkers in order to enable more space for the operation of the hospital," Barak said, visibly throwing off Amanpour mid-interview.
Fact Check: Did Israel Build Bunker Under Shifa Hospital?