New Florida law allows the death penalty for child rapists

a reply to: tanstaafl

And if they are in prison for life, how might they be able to do it to someone else?

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: quintessentone

Begs the question, does the Death penalty in general act as a deterrent?

I think its fair to say it does not, as countries with the death penalty still have people on death row, but IMO some crimes are just to heinous to warrant any other form of justice such as child rape. Is there much point in keeping someone locked up for eternity for such a crime or even worse putting them on a register and releasing them back into public.

im sure this makes me guilty of no remorse and perhaps even heartless but knowing an adult who was raped and how it affected her the thought of it being done to a child by an adult just fills me with anger

edit
not often we disagree mate and I do see your side of it, i think the fact i have been exposed to such a crime it perhaps skews my judgement

a reply to: tanstaafl

So, in your view, it's OK for the victim to 'be responsible' for their being imprisoned for life, but not for being put to death?

DeLiberato also points to alarming statistics. According to the Child Welfare Information Gateway.

About 90 percent of child sex abuse victims know their abuser and about 30 percent of children are abused by family members.

“So now, you’ve got this whole dynamic where a child is going to bear the weight of a possible death sentence to a neighbor, an uncle, grandfather, something that someone that they know that everybody in their family is not going to feel the exact same way about,” said DeLiberato.

www.news4jax.com...

Also, I'm unaware of a state in which underage rape, in and off itself, is a life sentence.

a reply to: UpThenDown

Agreed.

In my early days I had to deal with horrendous child abuse cases.

Lewisham and the likes of Haringey social services. To say that they were unbelievably incompetent is an understatement.

I should add, those cases made me cry to sleep at night and chose not to deal with them anymore.

Wasn't defending, they were matrimonial cases.

It is a recommendation. Meaning it is on the table. There are countless cases of people who have abused very very young children or facilitated it for others.

If there is real proof. Fry em. No one on the planet should think otherwise.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Muldar

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Muldar

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Muldar

"Not a serious argument.

You don't just report someone and this someone is getting convicted for rape and then executed. You remember where the burden of proof is?"

I disagree it is a valid argument.

If it doesn't get reported none of that arises.

If it is reported, then that becomes a real possibility.

Note, I said a "possibilty".

That brings up the other point addressed earlier by someone else, since 80% of sexual assault victims do not report, how many more victims will not report when the rapist (a father, brother, uncle ? ) tells them they will be put to death for it?

Emotional blackmail isn't a valid argument against the death penalty of child rapists.

It's incredible you have tried all possible avenues and nothing works.

I wasn't replying to the argument against the death penalty but to another offshoot relevant topic here. Not everyone here who is putting forth arguments are replying to that one point of yours. We are discussing many factors that may or may not occur when the death penalty is put in place. It becomes an important factor in the behaviour of the victim and perpetrator and we are just theorizing what those behavioural changes may be including a lower rate of reporting.

All the arguments you provided are ways to say you don't want child rapists to be sentenced to death. But the arguments are terrible and have no validity.

Just as above, emotional blackmail isn't a valid argument against the death penalty of child rapists.

It's incredible you have tried all possible avenues and nothing works...

Nothing works trying to help you understand what most of the posters on this thread are trying to relay.

Only a few posters have answered in favour of sparing the life of a child rapist. Most posters are in favour of the death penalty for child rapists in this thread.

And the claims by yourself and one more member are completely unsubstantiated and have no basis in anything than your opinions.

Yesterday you were arguing together with Sookiechacha that now child rapists will become murderers so to avoid the death penalty for rape!
As if murdering a child cannot result in the death penalty or as if there is no way to determine if someone has been raped before they were killed or after that.

Then you tried with arguing there would be a blood bath... No there would be no bloodbath of people who want to kill others using the death penalty.

Then you tried the emotional distress of children who will see their relatives getting executed...

All these are unsubstantiated assertions having no basis in anything.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: UpThenDown

Agreed.

In my early days I had to deal with horrendous child abuse cases.

Lewisham and the likes of Haringey social services. To say that they were unbelievably incompetent is an understatement.

I should add, those cases made me cry to sleep at night and chose not to deal with them anymore.

Wasn't defending, they were matrimonial cases.

Very unlikely someone will believe your accounts here because you have been advocating for the shift in the burden of proof in cases of libel and defamation.

So you want the accused i.e the person who has been defamed to prove the claims made against them are not true. That's extraordinary!

And hilarious!

originally posted by: Muldar

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Muldar

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Muldar

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Muldar

"Not a serious argument.

You don't just report someone and this someone is getting convicted for rape and then executed. You remember where the burden of proof is?"

I disagree it is a valid argument.

If it doesn't get reported none of that arises.

If it is reported, then that becomes a real possibility.

Note, I said a "possibilty".

That brings up the other point addressed earlier by someone else, since 80% of sexual assault victims do not report, how many more victims will not report when the rapist (a father, brother, uncle ? ) tells them they will be put to death for it?

Emotional blackmail isn't a valid argument against the death penalty of child rapists.

It's incredible you have tried all possible avenues and nothing works.

I wasn't replying to the argument against the death penalty but to another offshoot relevant topic here. Not everyone here who is putting forth arguments are replying to that one point of yours. We are discussing many factors that may or may not occur when the death penalty is put in place. It becomes an important factor in the behaviour of the victim and perpetrator and we are just theorizing what those behavioural changes may be including a lower rate of reporting.

All the arguments you provided are ways to say you don't want child rapists to be sentenced to death. But the arguments are terrible and have no validity.

Just as above, emotional blackmail isn't a valid argument against the death penalty of child rapists.

It's incredible you have tried all possible avenues and nothing works...

Nothing works trying to help you understand what most of the posters on this thread are trying to relay.

Only a few posters have answered in favour of sparing the life of a child rapist. Most posters are in favour of the death penalty for child rapists in this thread.

And the claims by yourself and one more member are completely unsubstantiated and have no basis in anything than your opinions.

Yesterday you were arguing together with Sookiechacha that now child rapists will become murderers so to avoid the death penalty for rape!
As if murdering a child cannot result in the death penalty or as if there is no way to determine if someone has been raped before they were killed or after.

Then you tried with arguing there would be a blood bath... No there would be no bloodbath of people who want to kill others using the death penalty.

Then you tried the emotional distress of children who will see their relatives getting executed...

All these are unsubstantiated assertions having no basis in anything.

From what I can see in this thread, it's split between members, not mostly those for the death penalty.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: tanstaafl

So, in your view, it's OK for the victim to 'be responsible' for their being imprisoned for life, but not for being put to death?

DeLiberato also points to alarming statistics. According to the Child Welfare Information Gateway.

About 90 percent of child sex abuse victims know their abuser and about 30 percent of children are abused by family members.

“So now, you’ve got this whole dynamic where a child is going to bear the weight of a possible death sentence to a neighbor, an uncle, grandfather, something that someone that they know that everybody in their family is not going to feel the exact same way about,” said DeLiberato.

www.news4jax.com...

Also, I'm unaware of a state in which underage rape, in and off itself, is a life sentence.

So what?
None of these are valid reasons against the death penalty for child rapists.

Children knowing their abuser is not a valid argument against the death penalty for child rapists. (even if it's a member of their family)

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Muldar

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Muldar

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Muldar

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Muldar

"Not a serious argument.

You don't just report someone and this someone is getting convicted for rape and then executed. You remember where the burden of proof is?"

I disagree it is a valid argument.

If it doesn't get reported none of that arises.

If it is reported, then that becomes a real possibility.

Note, I said a "possibilty".

That brings up the other point addressed earlier by someone else, since 80% of sexual assault victims do not report, how many more victims will not report when the rapist (a father, brother, uncle ? ) tells them they will be put to death for it?

Emotional blackmail isn't a valid argument against the death penalty of child rapists.

It's incredible you have tried all possible avenues and nothing works.

I wasn't replying to the argument against the death penalty but to another offshoot relevant topic here. Not everyone here who is putting forth arguments are replying to that one point of yours. We are discussing many factors that may or may not occur when the death penalty is put in place. It becomes an important factor in the behaviour of the victim and perpetrator and we are just theorizing what those behavioural changes may be including a lower rate of reporting.

All the arguments you provided are ways to say you don't want child rapists to be sentenced to death. But the arguments are terrible and have no validity.

Just as above, emotional blackmail isn't a valid argument against the death penalty of child rapists.

It's incredible you have tried all possible avenues and nothing works...

Nothing works trying to help you understand what most of the posters on this thread are trying to relay.

Only a few posters have answered in favour of sparing the life of a child rapist. Most posters are in favour of the death penalty for child rapists in this thread.

And the claims by yourself and one more member are completely unsubstantiated and have no basis in anything than your opinions.

Yesterday you were arguing together with Sookiechacha that now child rapists will become murderers so to avoid the death penalty for rape!
As if murdering a child cannot result in the death penalty or as if there is no way to determine if someone has been raped before they were killed or after.

Then you tried with arguing there would be a blood bath... No there would be no bloodbath of people who want to kill others using the death penalty.

Then you tried the emotional distress of children who will see their relatives getting executed...

All these are unsubstantiated assertions having no basis in anything.

[/quote

From what I can see in this thread, it's split between members, not mostly those for the death penalty.

No.
Only two of you have made some unsubstantiated claims and argued against the death penalty for child rapists. The rest don't have the same view.

edit on 5-10-2023 by Muldar because: (no reason given)

a reply to: quintessentone

The question really is asking what is the Florida government doing to help the victims with the aftermath of learning they were in part the reason for having their family member or friend of the family put to death?

I don't if you forgot this one?
You clearly trying to blame the victim because they ate the reason someone has been convicted or received the death sentence?

originally posted by: Muldar
a reply to: quintessentone

The question really is asking what is the Florida government doing to help the victims with the aftermath of learning they were in part the reason for having their family member or friend of the family put to death?

I don't if you forgot this one?
You clearly trying to blame the victim because they ate the reason someone has been convicted or received the death sentence?

Yes under the conditions if the child starts another trauma of self-blame, where is the mental health assistance in the event this happens?

a reply to: Muldar

None of these are valid reasons against the death penalty for child rapists.

Of course they are!

Again, you are not the arbitrator of what is or isn't valid. Your opinion carries no more weight than anyone else's', even those that completely disagree with you.

a reply to: Muldar

Only a few posters have answered in favour of sparing the life of a child rapist.

Nowhere in the USA is there a place where the death penalty for child rape isn't unconstitutional.

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Be the Change You Wish to See. Redux.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Muldar
a reply to: quintessentone

The question really is asking what is the Florida government doing to help the victims with the aftermath of learning they were in part the reason for having their family member or friend of the family put to death?

I don't if you forgot this one?
You clearly trying to blame the victim because they ate the reason someone has been convicted or received the death sentence?

Yes under the conditions if the child starts another trauma of self-blame, where is the mental health assistance in the event this happens?

Are you seriously blaming the child for the possible conviction of an adult who raped it. I see you answered something different above but I was referring to your post

The question really is asking what is the Florida government doing to help the victims with the aftermath of learning they were in part the reason for having their family member or friend of the family put to death?

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Muldar

Only a few posters have answered in favour of sparing the life of a child rapist.

Nowhere in the USA is there a place where the death penalty for child rape isn't unconstitutional.

You probably can't remember what you said in the many pages of this thread.

Including arguments that child rape is controversial...

To remind you that the death penalty doesn't violate the constitution and can be applied when specific crimes have been committed.

Can you remind me how many people have been sentenced to death in New Jersey in the last 10 years?

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Muldar

None of these are valid reasons against the death penalty for child rapists.

Of course they are!

Again, you are not the arbitrator of what is or isn't valid. Your opinion carries no more weight than anyone else's', even those that completely disagree with you.

It's not me who is the arbiter of truth but the arguments you made that have no merits. If you want them to have weight then you can qualify them. But you haven't done anything like it but asserted random statements as facts.

Children knowing their abusers isn't a valid argument against the death penalty for rapists (including people from their own environment and family)

The assertion we will now have many more child murders because child rapists can get a death sentence if they are caught, has no basis in anything, and it's not a valid argument against the death penalty for child rapists.

The assertion children will be emotionally distressed if they know their abusers will die : 'because' of them is just ridiculous and even if some kids get distressed then it's still not a valid argument against the death penalty.

I don't know how many attempts you and quintissentone had on this but clearly you have failed to convince the audience.

a reply to: Muldar

Can you remind me how many people have been sentenced to death in New Jersey in the last 10 years?

There have been ZERO people sentenced to death for child rape alone in New Jersey in the past 10 years. That's because that would be unconstitutional.