Going to Heaven

a reply to: Degradation33

I was scared to even use the two concepts as it's always knee-jerk, I guess just as much as having 33 in a moniker...

Such basic concepts have validity beyond the ideology that uses them as their philosophical bases...

I'm ruminating over the word angles, since using it in my short story. why oh why is the geometrical term identical with the religious one?

Those things to me always indicate a deeper connection and a hint for metalanguages being used.

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

I wish that I could give you stars without number.

John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, “To this very day My Father is at His work, and I too am working."
It's an ongoing process.

When I was looking at Zoroastrianism, it jumped out that creation of order from chaos wasn't and isn't a done deal, but ongoing. That's what the ethics is based on.

My memory is starting to go so I'm not sure if Jesus said "It is written that God created in six days, then rested. But I tell you today that creation is happening now, and you too can help."

Contrasted with Manicheism: That system of light and dark had it that the "people of light" when they die, go away, leaving the World to grow darker and darker until eventually there is no light left. I guess the end comes then, I don't remember.

The Dispensationalist teaching of Pre-trib/mid-trib rapture is just a copy of Manicheism. It just isn't right.

a reply to: Terpene

Order from chaos is the main motor that drives mental evolution.

My Granddaughter made me watch this Youtube last night.

Hungry Cat Went to a Store with a Leaf to Buy Fish

originally posted by: JJproductions
a reply to: randomuser

Hi I am Jewish and we do not read the New Testament.

Judaism believes that the Jewish Scriptures, often referred to as the Old Testament,[1] are the inspired word of God. If passages appear to contradict one another, it is our responsibility to delve deeply and uncover a correct understanding.

Greetings. The Hebrew portion of the Bible never gives the hope of going to heaven. The idea wasn't even a part of the Bible until Jesus came to earth and revealed it to his apostles. This is considered part of the sacred secrets that were hidden for long lasting times that were revealed by Jesus Christ to the Christian congregation:

"Now to Him who can make you firm according to the good news I declare and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the sacred secret that has been kept in silence for long-lasting times but has now been made manifest and has been made known through the prophetic Scriptures among all the nations according to the command of the everlasting God to promote obedience by faith."-Romans 16:25-26.

If you look at my thread on the covenants you will notice that there is a provision made in the covenant made with Moses, known as the Law Covenant, or the Mosaic Law Covenant, for the nation of Israel to become a kingdom of priests. But the natural nation of Israel broke the Law Covenant, time and time again. So Jehovah foretold a "new covenant," meaning the old one had become obsolete.

Now I mention this to you as a Jew, for two reasons. The Hebrew scriptures that many Jews today believe in (I realize Judaism today is quite splintered, and we even have Messianic Jews that profess belief in Jesus; I used to live in Glendale, Colorado, which has a very high population of Jews, and had interactions and conversations with Jews on a daily basis for years) refer to the New Covenant that would be made with the Christian congregation. That this would include gentiles, or people of the nations Jehovah, speaking to Moses while the Law Covenant was just formed and the nation of Israel was still in the wilderness wandering for the 40 years:

"They have incited me to fury with what is not a god; They have offended me with their worthless idols. So I will incite them to jealousy with what is not a people; I will offend them with a foolish nation."-Deuteronomy 32:21.

The prophet Isaiah foretelling the coming Christian congregation of anointed Christians says:

“I have let myself be searched for by those who did not ask for me; I have let myself be found by those who did not look for me. I said, ‘Here I am, here I am!’ to a nation that was not calling on my name."-Isaiah 65:1.

So the Hebrew Scriptures that Jews profess belief in does talk of the coming New Covenant, and a time Jehovah would let himself be found by a people who were once not his people a nation that was not calling on his name.

Now in that post I made about the covenants it refers to a promise Jehovah made with the fleshly nation of Israel at Mount Sinai in 1513 B. C. E. when the Law Covenant was put into effect that if the fleshly nation of Israel would listen to God's voice and uphold their part of the covenant they would become to God a kingdom of priests. That was never fulfilled. To quote my other post on this subject, explaining how that promise went to the anointed Christian congregation because the fleshly nation of Israel was unfaithful:

The Covenant for a Priesthood

Remember in 1513 B. C. E. at Mount Siani God established the Law Covenant with the fleshly nation of Israel. He made them a promise as a part of the covenant that if they kept it they would become to him a kingdom of priests:

"Now if you will strictly obey my voice and keep my covenant, you will certainly become my special property out of all peoples, for the whole earth belongs to me. You will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you are to say to the Israelites.”-Exodus 19:5-6.

While the family line of Aaron of the tribe of Levi the priesthood was bestowed, the nation as a whole did not become a kingdom of priests. Later on after Jesus had done away with the Law Covenant, and put into effect the better New Covenant, the apostle Peter told the anointed Christian congregation that they had received that priesthood:

"But you are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies” of the One who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light."-1 Peter 2:9.

The anointed Christian congregation which consists of 144,000 will reign in heaven with Jesus Christ as kings and they are also a kingdom of priests. They will officiate in heaven as under-priests in God's temple in heaven.

Now, I will reveal something to you. The Hebrew scriptures even talk about the 144,000 ruling forever as kings and priests as mentioned in Revelation. Notice!

Revelation referring to his holy nation of 144,000 spiritual Israelites, people selected out of all the nations and languages groups of the earth, both men and women to go to heaven to live with Jehovah God and Jesus Christ forevermore:

"And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”-Revelation 5:9-10.

That they are in heaven ruling as kings and priests we are told:

"But the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his slaves will offer him sacred service; and they will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. Also, night will be no more, and they have no need of lamplight or sunlight, for Jehovah God will shed light upon them, and they will rule as kings forever and ever."-Revelation 22:3-5.

To verify that these scriptures are indeed referring to the 144,000 seen in Revelation 14:1-2 on heavenly Mount Zion with Jesus Christ please see a fuller in-depth thread dealing with this subject here: Who Are the 144,000

Now if you look in Daniel 7 we are given the coronation ceremony of the "son of man" in heaven. This took place in 1914 C. E. In that year the time of the end began and Jesus Christ, as the son of man was coronated, and made king of God's kingdom in heaven. For a fuller explanation of this please see this thread: The Incoming Worldwide Government.

originally posted by: JJproductions
a reply to: randomuser

Hi I am Jewish and we do not read the New Testament.

Judaism believes that the Jewish Scriptures, often referred to as the Old Testament,[1] are the inspired word of God. If passages appear to contradict one another, it is our responsibility to delve deeply and uncover a correct understanding.

Continuing from my post above. There I wrote this:

Jesus arrives before Jehovah's illustrious throne. There is a hush in heaven. The music comes to a close. The angels are silent. The lightnings and the thunders cease. Then Jehovah extends his hand, in it is a scepter of ruling. Jesus, kneeling before his Father, receives the scepter, and with it the kingship, the dignity, and the splendor that all the nations and peoples of the earth should serve even him.

This event transpired in the year 1914 C. E. See this thread for a full explanation on this year). And was recorded by the prophet Daniel in vision thousands of years ago:

"I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him up close before that One. And to him there were given rulership, honor, and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him. His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed."-Daniel 7:13-14.

So Daniel was given the coronation vision of Jesus Christ that happened in heaven in 1914. BUT he did not only see Jesus crowed king. He also saw the holy ones, who are the 144,000 ruling with the "son of man," Christ Jesus:

After seeing Jesus Christ, as the son of man, gain access to Jehovah's throne and become king so that all the nations should bow down and serve him, we are told:

"But the holy ones of the Supreme One will receive the kingdom, and they will possess the kingdom forever, yes, forever and ever.’"-Daniel 7:18.

The "holy ones" or "saints" are the 144,000 who are called to reign in heaven with Jesus Christ as foretold in those scriptures cited above in Revelation.

In that same vision to Daniel we are told:

“‘And the kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One. Their kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all rulerships will serve and obey them.’-Daniel 7:27.

So, the Hebrew scriptures the Jews profess belief in do talk about the coming new covenant, the coming new nation, the anointed Christian congregation, and even shows that these "holy ones", revealed in Revelation 7:4 to be 144,000 total will rule with the "son of man" forever and ever. Revelation 14:1 shows that they are in heaven, standing with Jesus Christ in heavenly Mount Zion, where Jesus Christ reigns with the angels and where the congregation of the holy ones have been enrolled in the heavens:

"But you have approached a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels  in general assembly, and the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens, and God the Judge of all, and the spiritual lives of righteous ones who have been made perfect, 24 and Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and the sprinkled blood, which speaks in a better way than Abel’s blood."-Hebrews 12:22-24.

a reply to: pthena

That's very interesting, looks like a clever cat.

I bet it was the birds that lured it out on the street

a reply to: Terpene

I was scared to even use the two concepts as it's always knee-jerk, I guess just as much as having 33 in a moniker.

I often wondered if anyone thought "33" meant anything. It's nothing occult or secret society related. Not even intentional. Parallel use.

A lucky number from when I played organized sports as a kid. Had a really great season wearing #33, a left over number nobody wanted. Stuck around as a favorite number.

a reply to: Terpene

Humans are rather ubiquitous in the World. Animals adapt to that reality.

I was reading about dogs once. They evolved along side humans, that's why they can have a vocabulary of 500 human words.

That's abstract thought, connecting words to things and actions; nouns and verbs.

a reply to: Degradation33

I often wondered if anyone thought "33" meant anything. It's nothing occult or secret society related. Not even intentional. Parallel use.

lol...
come on, you want me to believe that when you throw Eris's apple into the pantheon?

"kallisti"

On a serious note, my kid just told me recently that his favorite number is now 33, not 13 anymore. He changes them more than his underwear

originally posted by: nugget1
a reply to: randomuser

Thank you for your thoughtful response, Random. Most people aren't able to have an open discussion without emotions entering in.

Its advice when applied makes your life better no matter who you are.

Most definitely; there is much common sense advice to be gleaned.

The archaeology record confirms the Bible narrative.

Actually, the Bible dates the story of Adam and Eve to the time of Jesus as 6,000 years by the meticulous genealogical records. Archeology has proven humanity existed long before Adam, so is the Biblical story a retelling of history repeating itself, as if we're stuck in an endless loop, ore?

Many of the Biblical stories can be found in far more ancient cultures. Did the writers of the Bible plagiarize some of their works, or is it a new accounting of events happening that have happened before, i.e. history repeating itself?

Its prophecy is 100% accurate.

I always hear the same thing about other prophecies, like Nostradamus. The problem is prophecies get re-interpreted to fit the facts after the event happens. 600 years gives the writer a lot of time to make sure the prophecies match the ensuing historical events.

There is much wisdom in the Word, yet I also see much evil-sanctioned from On High. Stoning people who aren't obedient comes to mind, and also one of God's favorites; King David.

I have not been able to reconcile a lot of the seemingly (to me) conflicting information, thought I have certainly learned the 'official' arguments as to why it's ok and i shouldn't question such things.

Thank you as well Nugget. I read your reply when you wrote it, but was too exhausted to write a reply. And was still thinking about your comment this morning when I was looking back at some old threads I made on this board (was looking for a thread I made on the 144,000). And opened up this thread that I thought I did a good job explaining some solid reasons I have found faith the Bible is God's word. I hope you take a gander if you get the time and are so inclined:

Is it Really Infallible?

a reply to: Terpene

Haha. I swear it totally really was.

Maybe I should pivot to Cassandra because no one can believe me now?

Now there's irony to it, but at one point it was more mundane. The first random favorite number that popped up type thing.

a reply to: Degradation33

I don't believe no one on the internet anyway, nothing changed

a reply to: Terpene

Thats a good rule of thumb. It was worth the disambiguation. I could never do freemasonry.

The symbols are neat and esoteric.



And may scream "unholy order of evil" to a religious person that doesn't known the meaning, but structure and initiation/leveling up type things bug me.

a reply to: randomuser

Thanks, RU. I enjoyed reading the perspective of others.

a reply to: AlexandrosTheGreat

I'm interested. Is there somewhere you can direct me to view it, if possible? Thanks!
I read the King James, but know the translations are not correct. I need to learn Greek & Hebrew.

a reply to: Whatchful

Here's a helpful tip.
Learn modern Greek. Many courses in that, even online.
The writing hasn't changed much in 3000 years. The pronunciation has, but then it isn't like you are likely to hold conversations with Homeric or 1st Century Koine Greek speakers.

As far as the Hebrew goes, the Septuagint Greek translation is much older than the Masoretic text. Word definitions would come in handy from time to time.
biblehub.com has interlinears and lexicons, and Strong's word look ups.

a reply to: TTU77

Ive read much of the bible as a kid and prophecy? That's what other religions say as well. Just ask a muslim about how the quran's works give evidence that islam is the true religion.

None of it is actual evidence though as it all requires high levels of belief to even consider.

I had believed in GOd, talked to Jesus, prayer, ect... Never once did this "god" show himself to me. Eventually I stopped believing because I realized it was alll in my head. I think there is something to prayer and it has its own power, regardless of religion.

originally posted by: Turquosie
a reply to: TTU77

Ive read much of the bible as a kid and prophecy? That's what other religions say as well. Just ask a muslim about how the quran's works give evidence that islam is the true religion.

None of it is actual evidence though as it all requires high levels of belief to even consider.

I had believed in GOd, talked to Jesus, prayer, ect... Never once did this "god" show himself to me. Eventually I stopped believing because I realized it was alll in my head. I think there is something to prayer and it has its own power, regardless of religion.

Jesus was prophesized as God coming and giving salvation unto the world. This happened.

Muslims don't even acknowledge the point and purpose of the entire bible, yet they claim their beliefs are based on it.

All the billions who believed on the name of Jesus, did God personally reveal himself to them all with verbal speech or show himself? It's called faith for a reason. He has mandated all those with faith will go to the Father/Heaven through Jesus according to His own divine plan of salvation.

Faith is very important to God. It is the way we are saved.

Furthermore - God has spoken to us and his word is available everday, always. It's called the bible.

If you want to hear God's work spoken out lout - Read the bible out loud.

Again, saying all this isn't enough to cause you to see the light.

In faith, pure faith, you can only call out to God, to let you see the light. In the end, you must cling on to the believe no matter what - even if angels come down from the sky and say its too late for you, or aliens try to deceive the whole world they, in stead of God, sent Christ. All blasphemies, for all those who preach a different Christ, let them be accursed.

You have to cling to your faith, no matter what. Those who have faith will be saved!

a reply to: randomuser

I haven't put much thought into the 144,000.

Can you compare and contrast the relationship of the saints - general saved people, vs that of the 144,000?

Both are of course saved.

The 144,000 Are Jews, exclusively.

Are you asserting that no saints will be in heaven, or near God, only the 144,000?

Only they have access to his light here on the Earth in New Jerusalem?

I hope you are not asserting there will only be 144,000 saved people, I trust not - forgive, I haven't read all the posts yet.

a reply to: pthena

Thank you pthena! I have looked at learning Greek and Hebrew before and it overwhelmed me. This is a good starting suggestion for both. Appreciate it very much!