Going to Heaven

a reply to: TTU77

"All other religions are based on works - all of them."

This is a damning indictment of Christianity. It is the only religion where you can live a selfless, virtuous and noble life just to be subjected to horrendous torment for your trouble. Meanwhile you can be a greedy, selfish monster motivated purely by spite & malevolence and be rewarded with paradise.

And not just temporarily where they learn what they did was wrong like prison or something, but eternally. Because screw you and your good deeds I guess.

Absolutely asinine morality system.

In Christianity, someone like Lavrentiy Beria, Stalin's secret police chief who was a prolific child rapist, sadistic torturer and gleeful mass murderer could be accepted into heaven if he accepted Jesus moments before he got his well deserved bullet to the head for his crimes. Under Islam for sake of argument, he could accept Allah (or whatever it is they do I can't remember) and still go to hell because of, you know, all the evil stuff he did.

I think I would prefer hell. Probably has better company. Definitely better aesthetics. White just isn't my colour.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: randomuser

Heaven isn't somewhere or somewhen else.

It's here and now .......the living God is alive.

But the belief in you and time produces stories about something somewhere.
But you can only ever see now....you are now.
Life is now.

The mind is fixated upon time and transformation. From this to that. Saint Elsewhere is its true messiah.

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas
Some of us are of the evil one and some of us are of The Father, The Father in His grace has opened heaven to everyone regardless.

No one has ever reached heaven because that wasn't the original plan. All this is to be destroyed "the heavens and the earth" because this creation was not created by The Father.

Jesus created everything, what blasphemy are you spewing? Only those who are in Christ are at peace with God and don't have his wraith on them, be it that means they go to heaven, or are raptured - eventually heaven will be on Earth!

You need to understand that this material realm we inhabit is evil, created by the evil one, we are to be delivered from this realm, Christ is our saviour in this respect. Open your eyes!!

Truly, I stay away from gnosticism. There is no prophecy. Anything not in the bible, that goes against any principle or command, is but a damnable doctrine of demons!

We live under the evil one and you believe truth is handed to you?

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas
Some of us are of the evil one and some of us are of The Father, The Father in His grace has opened heaven to everyone regardless.

No one has ever reached heaven because that wasn't the original plan. All this is to be destroyed "the heavens and the earth" because this creation was not created by The Father.

Jesus created everything, what blasphemy are you spewing? Only those who are in Christ are at peace with God and don't have his wraith on them, be it that means they go to heaven, or are raptured - eventually heaven will be on Earth!

You need to understand that this material realm we inhabit is evil, created by the evil one, we are to be delivered from this realm, Christ is our saviour in this respect. Open your eyes!!

Truly, I stay away from gnosticism. There is no prophecy. Anything not in the bible, that goes against any principle or command, is but a damnable doctrine of demons!

We live under the evil one and you believe truth is handed to you?

Prophecy - Why can't you address this issue?

What prophecy does gnosticism lay down to test to see if it's true.

originally posted by: Ohanka
a reply to: TTU77

"All other religions are based on works - all of them."

This is a damning indictment of Christianity. It is the only religion where you can live a selfless, virtuous and noble life just to be subjected to horrendous torment for your trouble. Meanwhile you can be a greedy, selfish monster motivated purely by spite & malevolence and be rewarded with paradise.

And not just temporarily where they learn what they did was wrong like prison or something, but eternally. Because screw you and your good deeds I guess.

Absolutely asinine morality system.

In Christianity, someone like Lavrentiy Beria, Stalin's secret police chief who was a prolific child rapist, sadistic torturer and gleeful mass murderer could be accepted into heaven if he accepted Jesus moments before he got his well deserved bullet to the head for his crimes. Under Islam for sake of argument, he could accept Allah (or whatever it is they do I can't remember) and still go to hell because of, you know, all the evil stuff he did.

I think I would prefer hell. Probably has better company. Definitely better aesthetics. White just isn't my colour.

Again, you don't seem to have too much knowledge on the subject. The points you bring up are valid and deserve a good answer. Hopefully someone else can chime in, as this all seems quite fruitless. I'm much more inclined to be encouraged by fellow believers - to seek this than constantly defending my faith. Atleast, at the moment, before bed, too tired to put up with this, again.

Over and over again, this is not a christian website by far. I love talking about Christ, especially when I'm not defending the basic doctrines in literally every post or second post.

That's where my heart in wisdom, should spend more time I think. Though, I do enjoy spreading the light, often it seems unfruitful. These things take time, perhaps a seed here or there will grow in a decade in some.



EDIT

Okay, I'll attempt to address this quickly.

1. Both of the people, the virteous and the "evil" people you describe, are in God's eyes one and the same for there are none GOOD, no, not one, beside God himself. Both of these two types of people still have the issue of sin in their heart - they are spiritually dead and disconnected from God, no matter what good works they do. How vain to imagine one enter into heaven by working for it. You have no concept of how holy God is, how Good and perfect he is. Even one sin can bring about the how planet Earths casting out and doom forever, accept it were not because of Jesus.

2. You again, like everyone else I've replied to, are dreaming up your own versions of God and what his plans are, based on your own thoughts and notions - Never taking into account the Holiness of God - He is eternal, pure love, everlasting. Even a single sin is three times alien and an abomination to God. It's impossible to stand in its presence for sin is death. What does death have anything in common with an eternal, thrice holy God? Nothing, if it weren't for his love for us, in his plan of redemption from the start. He gave us free will, knew the fall was going to happen, but allowed it through all of this so we could learn more about the character of God. In addition to knowing his love and his power of creation, so we can now more fully understand His Mercy, Grace, Faith, and to put our trust in him. He reverses original sin, for in it we began to trust ourselves for wisdom on what is good and evil from our understanding of knowledge. He walks us through with the law, learning his rightousness and holiness, unto Christ, learning his mercy and grace - all leading us unto that which we lost, the key back to his fellowship and redemption - Faith!
He is preparing us for eternity.

How about the god you created in your mind? Is he a one dimensional God, only of love and will punish no evil? How is he just? Is the God of the bible more righteous or your fantasy god? How can such a weak and character less, lacking noble dimensions, sustain an eternity in righteous, holy balance? how rigtheous then is your fantasy god? How does he teach you these other attributes about his character, the same attributes the one True God who created the universe must possess, for we know this through his word - without it, we'd be in dreamland with a one dimensional weak god like you, basking and loving the darkness, not knowing where it leads. But we have truth and know where we are good. We have many reasons for the hope.

This is just a start to your reply. Hopefully others will chime in, but truly, you can't just make up your own God, for He is beyond imagining - its only through his word will He reveal his character and his plans. You will learn who is his, its' beautiful and no mortal mind can phantom it or come up with it. For the millionth time, how do you cope with prophecy

1 million bucks, I'd wager, you CANT bring yourself to reply, no naysayer on this site ever does and I doubt you'll be any different, though you bring up good points. It's just your attitude, you just can't grasp who God is and the TRUTH, behind each one of the points you bring up on your own. You need the word. They will shine the light in your heart.

It cannot come through me or my explainations, ever, period, even though you have received the answer, the truth, it cannot satisfy your rebelous mind that loves darkness - the one that actually even if jokingly things hell will be tolerable.

There is no words to describe the degree to which you underestimate hell, your own evil, and the holiness of God. To eternal destiny depend on your discovering God and his mercy and goodness, his love for you on the cross.

To those perishing, it is foolishness, but unto the believer, it is the very power of God unto salvation!!

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas
Some of us are of the evil one and some of us are of The Father, The Father in His grace has opened heaven to everyone regardless.

No one has ever reached heaven because that wasn't the original plan. All this is to be destroyed "the heavens and the earth" because this creation was not created by The Father.

Jesus created everything, what blasphemy are you spewing? Only those who are in Christ are at peace with God and don't have his wraith on them, be it that means they go to heaven, or are raptured - eventually heaven will be on Earth!

You need to understand that this material realm we inhabit is evil, created by the evil one, we are to be delivered from this realm, Christ is our saviour in this respect. Open your eyes!!

Truly, I stay away from gnosticism. There is no prophecy. Anything not in the bible, that goes against any principle or command, is but a damnable doctrine of demons!

We live under the evil one and you believe truth is handed to you?

Prophecy - Why can't you address this issue?

What prophecy does gnosticism lay down to test to see if it's true.

What has prophecy got to do with anything other than ignorance and superstition, truth is in your heart, you wont find truth here on earth?

a reply to: TTU77

The bible mentions fruit of course, gradual process of sinning less, loving righteousness more, reading the word, loving it, loving fellowship etc, so these things play a crucial role in "once saved always saved"

The way I know I'm saved is by the love i feel for him. It grows
everyday. Being a Christian does not mean we are sin free.
And God would not make us into ping pong balls between
our sin and salvation. Not so the devil could take bets on where
we end up. Once saved you want to do better and work towards
perfection in this life. That will only be only found in the next.
If you simply look at the word all? All doesn't mean only the past
present or future. It means all as in all your sins are forgiven and
that is what keeps it easy.

"If you love me you will obey my words". He never said you have
to obey my words to be saved because then you would be saving
yourself by works. Notice how being saved provides no free pass
to sin at will? I love God because I know in my mind that his
way is perfect. I see humanity without his guidance perverting
a world I want no part of and vie to be taken from any way
or time. I weave my way thru this world looking for Christ
because I will never be perfect until I'm finally with him.

I love Jesus Christ for making it so easy. I love my Father in
Heaven for making everything. While loving us and providing
a way that is more fool proof then most come to understand.

So I think once saved always saved is the only thing resonable
with God knowing what's in each of our hearts. It makes the
most sense when God is obviously sensible.

originally posted by: Saloon
a reply to: TTU77

The bible mentions fruit of course, gradual process of sinning less, loving righteousness more, reading the word, loving it, loving fellowship etc, so these things play a crucial role in "once saved always saved"

The way I know I'm saved is by the love i feel for him. It grows
everyday. Being a Christian does not mean we are sin free.
And God would not make us into ping pong balls between
our sin and salvation. Not so the devil could take bets on where
we end up. Once saved you want to do better and work towards
perfection in this life. That will only be only found in the next.
If you simply look at the word all? All doesn't mean only the past
present or future. It means all as in all your sins are forgiven and
that is what keeps it easy.

"If you love me will obey my words". He never said you have
to obey my words to be saved because then you would be saving
yourself by works. Notice how being saved provides no free pass
to sin at will? I love God because I know in my mind that his
way is perfect. I see humanity without his guidance perverting
a world I want no part of and vie to be taken from any way
or time. I weave my way thru this world looking for Christ
because I will never be perfect until I'm finally with him.

I love Jesus Christ for making it so easy. I love my Father in
Heaven for making everything. While loving us and providing
a way that is more fool proof then most come to understand.

So I think once saved always saved is the only thing resonable
with God knowing what's in each of our hearts. It makes the
most sense when God is obviously sensible.

Amen.

Heaven? No, you just come back again same as you ever were. Everything realigns EXACTLY as it is now. Time is irrelevant, it ends when you do and starts again when you do. That’s it.

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas
Some of us are of the evil one and some of us are of The Father, The Father in His grace has opened heaven to everyone regardless.

No one has ever reached heaven because that wasn't the original plan. All this is to be destroyed "the heavens and the earth" because this creation was not created by The Father.

Jesus created everything, what blasphemy are you spewing? Only those who are in Christ are at peace with God and don't have his wraith on them, be it that means they go to heaven, or are raptured - eventually heaven will be on Earth!

You need to understand that this material realm we inhabit is evil, created by the evil one, we are to be delivered from this realm, Christ is our saviour in this respect. Open your eyes!!

Truly, I stay away from gnosticism. There is no prophecy. Anything not in the bible, that goes against any principle or command, is but a damnable doctrine of demons!

We live under the evil one and you believe truth is handed to you?

Prophecy - Why can't you address this issue?

What prophecy does gnosticism lay down to test to see if it's true.

What has prophecy got to do with anything other than ignorance and superstition, truth is in your heart, you wont find truth here on earth?

I don't have time for such a childish back and forth. Please someone, enlighten him on the merits of prophecy and how such a thing can actually mean God is God and he is speaking to us and only God can do so.

Truth is not in the heart. Again, that is something you made up on your own. It's so easy to make up your own idea of God, and spiritual principles like truth, but why not actually go to the bible, which billions of people acknowledge as the word of truth.

Should we all of a sudden refer to this poster as the one who has truth?

Ridiculous. God gave us his word, through prophets, and they came true. So people naturally believed the Word, fell in love with it, it's mystery, and through it, find a saving knowledge, that leads to Christ, and eternal life!!!

That is truth, something the bible calls light. The bible calls those who don't have the light, darkness, they love darkness. Those in darkness hate the light, they hate having and retaining the light, aka, the very words of the bible. They hate it and want hell and to be seperate from God.

He gave us truth, but the world hates it, and loves darkness, lest its own heart and evil be brought into the light. Only when they know the state of their heart, they experience it, being broken, seeing a loved one broken, looking into the face of death, or a sign from God perhaps, and then seeing there need of God, to be rescued from sin, knowing they are forgiven in Christ, that he provided a way, do they dare come into the light. Once here, its blessed. No longer wishing to return to the vomit of sins he is far far far removed from, as a dog who vomits and keeps going back to eat it up, not knowing anything better.

There is spiritual fruit and blessings beyond the pale of the desires of the flesh, that God and his Word through Christ offers to feed us and lift us out of this fallen world that is fading away, and unto everlasting life, then we will inherit the earth, as the children of light, everlasting, living on the earth. The world is fading away fast, within a decade, everyone living on it could be immortal with Christ ruling on it, if not everyone, the survivors of Armeggedon would be the mortal remnant. 1000 years from know, an entire universe will be created anew for us to live in with God, for his glory and namesake, to recover from the original sin of man.

A single sin polluted the entire universe for God. For he is holy holy holy. It needs to be recreated to be worthy, and even judiciously be possible for him to eternally dwell in it.

You see how foolish and small is your understanding of the God's holiness and rightousness. We are sinful creatures, all of creation would be rooting our desctruction if not for Christ and at judgement day, it will be similar. How dare any creature disobey God - then we will see what such blasphemy deserves when we see His eternal glory in the presence of all his heavenly angels.

When we see his goodness, you will know, hell is 100% just and is justice. It will be evident as day is from night, standing in front of the one True God. Imagine the glory we will see of God, when he destroys and creates another universe before our very eyes.

originally posted by: Saloon
a reply to: TTU77

The bible mentions fruit of course, gradual process of sinning less, loving righteousness more, reading the word, loving it, loving fellowship etc, so these things play a crucial role in "once saved always saved"

The way I know I'm saved is by the love i feel for him. It grows
everyday. Being a Christian does not mean we are sin free.
And God would not make us into ping pong balls between
our sin and salvation. Not so the devil could take bets on where
we end up. Once saved you want to do better and work towards
perfection in this life. That will only be only found in the next.
If you simply look at the word all? All doesn't mean only the past
present or future. It means all as in all your sins are forgiven and
that is what keeps it easy.

"If you love me you will obey my words". He never said you have
to obey my words to be saved because then you would be saving
yourself by works. Notice how being saved provides no free pass
to sin at will? I love God because I know in my mind that his
way is perfect. I see humanity without his guidance perverting
a world I want no part of and vie to be taken from any way
or time. I weave my way thru this world looking for Christ
because I will never be perfect until I'm finally with him.

I love Jesus Christ for making it so easy. I love my Father in
Heaven for making everything. While loving us and providing
a way that is more fool proof then most come to understand.

So I think once saved always saved is the only thing resonable
with God knowing what's in each of our hearts. It makes the
most sense when God is obviously sensible.

I agree, once saved always saved is 100% biblical.

The bible also commands christians to examine themselves to see if they are in the faith.

Bridging the two, if somewhere along the long a believer notices all of the fruit of the bible, he or she can have assurance of their salvation, and thereupon the once saved always saved is 100% biblical and in line.

My point was just to clarify the issue of some situations. Perhaps it's not necessary to explicitely point it out, for I do not wish to debate the issue, just share my understanding on it.

Mosatly, I find it harmful for a lukewarm or beginner "christian" who perhaps has all the knowledge of the gospel, but perhaps, not the understanding in the heart of it, a true saving knowledge, to perhaps, intellectually DECIDE he is saved.

Is salvation decisionism? How about the easy believism - will you ask Christ into your heart? Those types of things, where they make a split second decision to accept Christ, without seeing the need deep in their soul of his salvation.

That beautiful doctrine of once saved always saved, could be used for harm in some situations. The devil could just fool the beginner christian to thinking his saved, then he won't otherwise do the necessary seeking he would have otherwise done, or believe he can live like the devil and never show any of the fruit mentioned, etc.

Yes, one can never choose to obey and then look back and say, you see, there is fruit, I tried and now there is fruit, let that be the proof - no, that is a subtlety of the devil, a backended works.

These are things that come from the heart, I believe, truly loving righteousness and seeking it, that is not something one does as a work, but one discovers while basking in the rest from the finished work of the cross, through meditation, prayer, from the fruit of the spirit, according to my understanding in my mind.

Again, complicated issues, I digress, and never wish to in a million years debate this issue to a point of contention or to be divisive.

If my understanding somewhere is incorrect, I beg to be corrected, truly. I adore the truth and God's wisdom and love discovering it.

I have knowledge of a lot of things, but fear not all the understanding or perhaps some understanding can be more perfect, as they say in the bible.

Blessings and thanks for sharing your understanding of scripture and salvation with me.

originally posted by: ARM1986
Heaven? No, you just come back again same as you ever were. Everything realigns EXACTLY as it is now. Time is irrelevant, it ends when you do and starts again when you do. That’s it.

I don't think imagination can have any effect on destiny or truth.

So making up your own personal religion as it suits you? Surely this
Was the same path taken by many great figures in history. Jim Jones
David Koresh etc.

Maybe you're just being silly

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas
Some of us are of the evil one and some of us are of The Father, The Father in His grace has opened heaven to everyone regardless.

No one has ever reached heaven because that wasn't the original plan. All this is to be destroyed "the heavens and the earth" because this creation was not created by The Father.

Jesus created everything, what blasphemy are you spewing? Only those who are in Christ are at peace with God and don't have his wraith on them, be it that means they go to heaven, or are raptured - eventually heaven will be on Earth!

You need to understand that this material realm we inhabit is evil, created by the evil one, we are to be delivered from this realm, Christ is our saviour in this respect. Open your eyes!!

Truly, I stay away from gnosticism. There is no prophecy. Anything not in the bible, that goes against any principle or command, is but a damnable doctrine of demons!

We live under the evil one and you believe truth is handed to you?

Prophecy - Why can't you address this issue?

What prophecy does gnosticism lay down to test to see if it's true.

What has prophecy got to do with anything other than ignorance and superstition, truth is in your heart, you wont find truth here on earth?

I don't have time for such a childish back and forth. Please someone, enlighten him on the merits of prophecy and how such a thing can actually mean God is God and he is speaking to us and only God can do so.

Truth is not in the heart. Again, that is something you made up on your own. It's so easy to make up your own idea of God, and spiritual principles like truth, but why not actually go to the bible, which billions of people acknowledge as the word of truth.

Should we all of a sudden refer to this poster as the one who has truth?

Ridiculous. God gave us his word, through prophets, and they came true. So people naturally believed the Word, fell in love with it, it's mystery, and through it, find a saving knowledge, that leads to Christ, and eternal life!!!

That is truth, something the bible calls light. The bible calls those who don't have the light, darkness, they love darkness. Those in darkness hate the light, they hate having and retaining the light, aka, the very words of the bible. They hate it and want hell and to be seperate from God.

He gave us truth, but the world hates it, and loves darkness, lest its own heart and evil be brought into the light. Only when they know the state of their heart, they experience it, being broken, seeing a loved one broken, looking into the face of death, or a sign from God perhaps, and then seeing there need of God, to be rescued from sin, knowing they are forgiven in Christ, that he provided a way, do they dare come into the light. Once here, its blessed. No longer wishing to return to the vomit of sins he is far far far removed from, as a dog who vomits and keeps going back to eat it up, not knowing anything better. There is spiritual fruit and blessings beyond the pale of the desires of the flesh, that God and his Word through Christ offers to feed us and lift us out of this fallen world that is fading away, and unto everlasting life, then we will inherit the earth, as the children of light, everlasting, living on the earth. The world is fading away fast, within a decade, everyone living on it could be immortal with Christ ruling on it, if not everyone, the survivors of Armeggedon would be the mortal remnant. 1000 years from know, an entire universe will be created anew for us, to recover from the original sin of man.

A single sin polluted the entire universe for God. For he is holy holy holy. It needs to be recreated to be worthy, and even judiciously be possible for him to eternally dwell in it

You see how foolish and small is your understanding of the God's holiness and rightousness. We are sinful creatures, all of creation would be rooting our desctruction if not for Christ and at judgement day, it will be similar. How dare any creature disobey God - then we will see what such blasphemy deserves when we see His eternal glory in the presence of all his heavenly angels.

When we see his goodness, you will know, hell is 100% just and is justice. It will be evident as day is from night, standing in front of the one True God.

Of course truth in the heart of those who can see? Who do you suppose Christ was speaking too? the billions of blind believers like you? did He speak in parables for the blind like you? Please enlighten me on the merits of prophesy lol.

originally posted by: Ohanka
a reply to: TTU77

"All other religions are based on works - all of them."

This is a damning indictment of Christianity. It is the only religion where you can live a selfless, virtuous and noble life just to be subjected to horrendous torment for your trouble. Meanwhile you can be a greedy, selfish monster motivated purely by spite & malevolence and be rewarded with paradise.

And not just temporarily where they learn what they did was wrong like prison or something, but eternally. Because screw you and your good deeds I guess.

Absolutely asinine morality system.

In Christianity, someone like Lavrentiy Beria, Stalin's secret police chief who was a prolific child rapist, sadistic torturer and gleeful mass murderer could be accepted into heaven if he accepted Jesus moments before he got his well deserved bullet to the head for his crimes. Under Islam for sake of argument, he could accept Allah (or whatever it is they do I can't remember) and still go to hell because of, you know, all the evil stuff he did.

I think I would prefer hell. Probably has better company. Definitely better aesthetics. White just isn't my colour.

I will chime in here, only because TTU77 made a request for someone to chime in.

Satan has requested of Jehovah God to have all those who have been given the seal of heavenly life to sift through them. Like he did Job, he mercilessly puts them to the test by means of trails and tribulations and temptations:

"Simon, Simon, look! Satan has demanded to have all of you to sift you as wheat."-Luke 22:31.

Jesus told John in his vision in Revelation that the one that has endured until the end, that is until the end of his earthly life, or the end of this system of things if they are alive at that time, will receive crowns in heaven:

"To the one who conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, just as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne."-Revelation 3:21.

Satan has been thrown out of heaven and he is at war with the remaining one of the offspring of the woman, that is the remaining 144,000 who are still alive on earth. Please see this thread for further information on this:

The Real War Satan is Waging

The evildoer at Jesus' side will be resurrected in God's kingdom rule. But he did not have time to show real faith by his actions in Jesus Christ. He will partake in the resurrection of the unrighteous:

"Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment."-John 5:28-29.

I told TTU77 I would write a thread on this Judgement Day being the 1,000 year rule of Christ on earth, after Jesus does away with all human rulership in the near future at Armageddon. I will try and do that tomorrow.

Then, under Jesus' kingdom rule that evil doer along with untold billions others who are raised from the dead on earth under God's kingdom rule will be taught the truth and be given an opportunity to get their names written in the book of life.

No everyone is in God's memory. Can we ourselves judge a person personally as to whether they will receive a resurrection or not? No. But there are people God has erased from his book of life. And there are those who will not live again.

The idea you are stating here is from the false narrative that people like someone on the first page of this thread stated, going against God and his word he said that the dead are not asleep, after reading that is what Jesus himself said they are doing verbatim. These people are unreasoning, and chose to belive that they want, not what the Bible teaches. That is why, and you can go back to the first page of this thread and watch it unfold. After being shown very simple easy to understand scriptures about the condition of the dead, they refuse to acknoweldge it and then teach lies. And one of those lies is that the evildoer went to paradise with Jesus the day Jesus died. Jesus was dead when he died, for three days. And paradise is on earth. Jesus never told the evildoer he was going to heaven.

The heavenly hope did not even open up to anyone until 50 days after Jesus was raised from the dead and returned to heaven and poured out his holy spirit on the 120 disciples on Pentecost of 33 C. E. That is why he said that although no man was greater than John the baptist who was born of a woman, even the least in the kingdom of the heaven was greater than he was:

"Truly I say to you, among those born of women, there has not been raised up anyone greater than John the Baptist, but a lesser person in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is. "-Matthew 11:11.

That was the whole point of this thread. To shed a little light on the truth of the heavenly hope. False Christianity teaches that all good people, and basically anyone can go to heaven. That is not taught in the Bible. And that is why you are confused.

To help you see the distinction between true Christians and false Christianity you may want to see this recent thread:

Abaddon of the Abyss

Only an anointed Christian who has endured faithfully and loyally through many trials and tribulations will enter into the kingdom of the heaven. It is a lie that the evildoer went to heaven, and that anyone can get into heaven. That is just not true:

“We must enter into the Kingdom of God through many tribulations.”-Acts 14:22.

a reply to: TTU77

Blessings and thanks for sharing your understanding of scripture and salvation with me.

That's all we're doing with the fathomless word. I surmise no man
knows it's true depth. I am sure both of us would love to. I enjoy
your posts.

originally posted by: Cwantas

Of course truth in the heart of those who can see? Who do you suppose Christ was speaking too? the billions of blind believers like you? did He speak in parables for the blind like you?

Cwantas, I don't know if you are a believer, if so, apologies, if I was too harsh, I beg apologies, especially if you read what I wrote and took it seriosly.

I will clarify, since you say you are a believer, which I hope and would never dare to question, but I will seek to correct if I notice some knowledge a foot.

The Word of God, His Light, yes, in one's heart, that of course is truth, and only things corresponding to that are truth.

One cannot make up ones own truth. The bible is truth. Only that can serve as the foundation to live our lives on, to test spriits, and all other doctrines and beliefs, to see if its inline with truth.

You did not distinguish this, which is vital when talking about "truth".

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas

Of course truth in the heart of those who can see? Who do you suppose Christ was speaking too? the billions of blind believers like you? did He speak in parables for the blind like you?

Cwantas, I don't know if you are a believer, if so, apologies, if I was too harsh, I beg apologies, especially if you read what I wrote and took it seriosly.

I will clarify, since you say you are a believer, which I hope and would never dare to question, but I will seek to correct if I notice some knowledge a foot.

The Word of God, His Light, yes, in one's heart, that of course is truth, and only things corresponding to that are truth.

One cannot make up ones own truth. The bible is truth. Only that can serve as the foundation to live our lives on, to test spriits, and all other doctrines and beliefs, to see if its inline with truth.

You did not distinguish this, which is vital when talking about "truth".

The Bible is not truth, Christ told you that this earth belongs to the evil one and you believe that truth is handed to you here in this place?

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas

Of course truth in the heart of those who can see? Who do you suppose Christ was speaking too? the billions of blind believers like you? did He speak in parables for the blind like you?

Cwantas, I don't know if you are a believer, if so, apologies, if I was too harsh, I beg apologies, especially if you read what I wrote and took it seriosly.

I will clarify, since you say you are a believer, which I hope and would never dare to question, but I will seek to correct if I notice some knowledge a foot.

The Word of God, His Light, yes, in one's heart, that of course is truth, and only things corresponding to that are truth.

One cannot make up ones own truth. The bible is truth. Only that can serve as the foundation to live our lives on, to test spriits, and all other doctrines and beliefs, to see if its inline with truth.

You did not distinguish this, which is vital when talking about "truth".

The Bible is not truth, Christ told you that this earth belongs to the evil one and you believe that truth is handed to you here in this place?

You have the right to believe the Bible is not truth. But then why you do quote scripture in the same breath as denying it?

But who really is not telling the truth here?

"22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. "-1 John 2:22.

originally posted by: randomuser

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas

Of course truth in the heart of those who can see? Who do you suppose Christ was speaking too? the billions of blind believers like you? did He speak in parables for the blind like you?

Cwantas, I don't know if you are a believer, if so, apologies, if I was too harsh, I beg apologies, especially if you read what I wrote and took it seriosly.

I will clarify, since you say you are a believer, which I hope and would never dare to question, but I will seek to correct if I notice some knowledge a foot.

The Word of God, His Light, yes, in one's heart, that of course is truth, and only things corresponding to that are truth.

One cannot make up ones own truth. The bible is truth. Only that can serve as the foundation to live our lives on, to test spriits, and all other doctrines and beliefs, to see if its inline with truth.

You did not distinguish this, which is vital when talking about "truth".

The Bible is not truth, Christ told you that this earth belongs to the evil one and you believe that truth is handed to you here in this place?

You have the right to believe the Bible is not truth. But then why you do quote scripture in the same breath as denying it?

But who really is not telling the truth here?

"22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. "-1 John 2:22.

There is truth in the Bible, how could there not be? you just have to see it, and we humans being that we are..... makes it quite difficult.

na