Going to Heaven

a reply to: randomuser

It's just a case of mis identification.......


You believe you are the body, the thoughts......


But what sees these words, sees the body, is aware of the thoughts is the invisible spirit.

Saint Francis of Assisi said......What we are looking for is what is looking.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: randomuser
' You are contradicting Jesus Christ, and God's word the Bible..

Nope.
Jesus told the good thief TODAY you will be with me in paradise.
That's immediate.
You can say the bible contradicts itself, or you can say Jesus said Lazarus 'fell asleep'
instead of died because Jesus knew He was going to raise him up.
But there is no getting around Christ's words from the cross .... TODAY you will be
with me in paradise. That's not a future time.

Abrahams bossom was thought to be paradise - the place where souls were kept until Christ was ressurected. The thief should have been brought there, until 3 days later, the theif could have been brought to Heaven with Jesus, along with every other soul in abrahams bossom. Now, all go to heaven - or perhaps all sleep until the ressurection at the rapture, be it pre or mid trib, then finally after 1000 years, all resurrected, those going to the great white throne, and those righteous mortals during the 1000 years.

According to the Revelations, the dead shall be raised at the exact moment the last trumpet sounds. It is then that they shall be 'transformed' and either be allowed into heaven or not.

Everyone is judged on Judgment Day. When the dead are raised.

Anyways, if there is a heaven I have no hopes of getting in, according to Jesus. I live in the US, I own a house, I own multiple cars and have TVs in every room. By planet Earth's standards, I am rich. I am more rich than most people on this planet.

And Jesus said: "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

I'm screwed.

It's true everyone will be judged. This is why Jesus Christ had to come.
It's the only way we all would not be condemned at the judgement.
No normal man would have or could have done what Jesus Christ had
to come here and do. No normal man is without sin. And all would
cower from the cross anyway.

The message you are using to show God as unreasonable uses your own
conclusion. It disregards who Jesus was speaking to as well as when. In
other words you're taking the passage way out of context. So consider
for a moment that Jesus said this before he went to the cross. To apply
this passage to now instead of only then. Completely negates everything
Jesus Christ died for. Hopefully you see how a lack of knowledge is never
a position to speak from.

What was impossible then your Father in Heaven has made easy peasy for
you and anyone else. Stop letting this world blind you from the absolute
truth. Being judged is not being condemned.

a reply to: Mahogany

How are they gonna raise the people who were cremated or have simply decayed to nothing?

Are those guys & gals going to have to attend the final judgement court via GodZoom or something?

originally posted by: Saloon

According to the Revelations, the dead shall be raised at the exact moment the last trumpet sounds. It is then that they shall be 'transformed' and either be allowed into heaven or not.

Everyone is judged on Judgment Day. When the dead are raised.

Anyways, if there is a heaven I have no hopes of getting in, according to Jesus. I live in the US, I own a house, I own multiple cars and have TVs in every room. By planet Earth's standards, I am rich. I am more rich than most people on this planet.

And Jesus said: "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

I'm screwed.

It's true everyone will be judged. This is why Jesus Christ had to come.
It's the only way we all would not be condemned at the judgement.
No normal man would have or could have done what Jesus Christ had
to come here and do. No normal man is without sin. And all would
cower from the cross anyway.

The message you are using to show God as unreasonable uses your own
conclusion. It disregards who Jesus was speaking as well as when. In
other words you're taking the passage way out of context. So consider
for a moment that Jesus said this before he went to cross. To apply
this passage to now instead of only then. Completely negates everything
Jesus Christ died for. Hopefully you see how a lack of knowledge is never
a position to speak from.

What was impossible then your Father in Heaven has made easy peasy for
you and anyone else. Stop letting this world blind you from the absolute
truth. Being judged is not being condemned.

Yes! Jesus is God and has to be to discharge God's judgement. It was this judgement that should rightly scare everyone beside Christ himself - if they had full knowledge of what it meant, I'd imagine.

The physical pain at the cross, compared to His judgement, would be barely comparable - I'd imagine not even a billionth of a percent.

Others mention this and I agree.

It's easy peasy to be saved, imo, only because He calls us. Walking in the spirit, not so much - unless one meditates and reads the bible daily.

There is nothing easy about being a Christian, blessed, and joyful, truly, but sometimes, quite difficult not to give into temptation, unless one is really on top of abiding in his word and his commandments - actively doing things to testify ones belief, even if that means not saying no to your own family when they ask to buy this or that food when money is tight. Normally, I'd be tight and stingy, but charity is a good opportunity to love Christ back. I wish I could see him from afar or hold his hand at times, but I can't, so the best I can do is do good for people and that's my way of holding his hand, or seeing him, etc.

Some of us are of the evil one and some of us are of The Father, The Father in His grace has opened heaven to everyone regardless.

No one has ever reached heaven because that wasn't the original plan. All this is to be destroyed "the heavens and the earth" because this creation was not created by The Father.

originally posted by: Cwantas
Some of us are of the evil one and some of us are of The Father, The Father in His grace has opened heaven to everyone regardless.

No one has ever reached heaven because that wasn't the original plan. All this is to be destroyed "the heavens and the earth" because this creation was not created by The Father.

Jesus created everything, what blasphemy are you spewing? Only those who are in Christ are at peace with God and don't have his wraith on them, be it that means they go to heaven, or are raptured - eventually heaven will be on Earth!

a reply to: randomuser

I always thought heaven and hell, were far from the typical christian point of view. My guess is that it refers to higher and lower density existances. Heaven possibly meaning ascending into the 5th + dimensions. Closer to the source of all things. Whereas, hell is this dimension and lower. Having less and less awareness trapped in confusion and limited freedom.

However, OPs idea of heaven (the 144,000 people) and mainstream idea of heaven (if you meet christian requirements) is quite cruel. It means only a select group of people, based mostly on luck. As most people don't usually choose their religion or life experiances that lead them to a certain faith.

What a cruel God; to allow only a select few to the higher realms of heaven and let everyone else rot because why? Well, because that's God's f$cked up plan.

Of course, this all relies on the belief that the bible and its many interpretations have any real baring on reality. The fact is that the people who wrote the bible may have only had a glimair of what the truth is. Filling the rest in with their own interpretations, beliefs, morals, and ideas of the time.

This is why i think religion is nonsense. At least, taking it seriously is. You're going to base your whole life and short time here gambeling on that your faith (amonst thousands) is the right faith. All because you're fearful of death.

It seems a wasteful way to live. But to each their own.

a reply to: TTU77

what blasphemy are you spewing?

Look up Demiurge in Wikipedia.

In the arch-dualist ideology of the various Gnostic systems, the material universe is evil, while the non-material world is good. According to some strains of Gnosticism, the demiurge is malevolent, as it is linked to the material world. In others, including the teaching of Valentinus, the demiurge is simply ignorant or misguided.

eventually heaven will be on Earth!

The OP should probably say whether God and the Lamb come to Earth, where there is a river and a tree, and material things and gates that the nations can come into, with material things. (Rev 21 and 22)

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas
Some of us are of the evil one and some of us are of The Father, The Father in His grace has opened heaven to everyone regardless.

No one has ever reached heaven because that wasn't the original plan. All this is to be destroyed "the heavens and the earth" because this creation was not created by The Father.

Jesus created everything, what blasphemy are you spewing? Only those who are in Christ are at peace with God and don't have his wraith on them, be it that means they go to heaven, or are raptured - eventually heaven will be on Earth!

People have been saying that for centuries. And before the abrahamic religions, there was other religions saying, with certainity, that this or that rapture will come. Or that you have to believe in this or that, to make it to the chosen land in the afterlife.

Afterall, its just based on having faith that the men who written those books so many years ago had any clue to what they're talking about.

Countless religions with countless interpreations. Yet, your religion and interpretation is the right one?

Or perhaps, we're just like the men and women before us; Putting blind faith into our religions because the uknown of death is scary..

a reply to: TTU77

God had to make it easy to be saved or not one would be.
There are no works to it. I see it as simple as accept what he
did to save us. And love him for it as you obviously do by works.

Our works like financial accomplishments or good deeds can
never save anyone. But should be a result of accepting the
work and good deeds that Jesus did as we love him for it.

We are so honored that he desires our love with so much
intensity. But that's simply what it's all about. Those who
have the brains to "Look and see". Those who hear his voice.
Those who "Seek and find" Those who see right thru the lies
this world tells them. Those who choose to love God. Seems
logical to me he would want them around. And a perfect
way to seperate the chafe from the wheat. Of their own free
will.

Saved once always saved. Seems like a pretty good deal to me.

originally posted by: Turquosie
a reply to: randomuser

What a cruel God; to allow only a select few to the higher realms of heaven and let everyone else rot because why? Well, because that's God's f$cked up plan.

God loved us enough to incarnate and die for us! That is the greatest love story ever told and the greatest act of love anyone or anything can do or is capable of, to our mortal imaginations.

You call this cruel? you have it backwards? Why can't you see this love instead.


If the God who made you, came to die for you, and you refuse to except - is it cruel to send that ungrateful creature to hell?

What more can God do? He seeks those who will worship him in spirit and TRUTH (that he came and died according to scripture - the prophets he sent for thousands of years leads up to this - he has been walking and showing us his plans for thousands of years - there is no denying prophecy!)

Christianity is different from all other religions.

Eternal life is not achieved by good deeds but received through faith. It’s not a matter of trying but trusting. When we believe we receive the forgiveness of sins and the gift of eternal life.

He gives us eternal life ONLY through faith. This preserves are free will. You must decide, heaven or hell. God or no God. The bible, or cast it aside as a fairy tale in your mind.

Read the bible and there is a sure bet, it'll change your life, even safe your soul.

lifein6words.com...

originally posted by: Saloon
a reply to: TTU77

God had to make it easy to be saved or not one would be.
There are no works to it. I see it as simple as accept what he
did to save us. And love him for it as you obviously do by works.

Our works like financial accomplishments or good deeds can
never save anyone. But should be a result of accepting the
work and good deeds that Jesus did as we love him for it.

We are so honored that he desires our love with so much
intensity. But that's simply what it's all about. Those who
have the brains to "Look and see". Those who hear his voice.
Those who "Seek and find" Those who see right thru the lies
this world tells them. Those who choose to love God. Seems
logical to me he would want them around. And a perfect
way to seperate the chafe from the wheat. Of their own free
will.

Saved once always saved

Agree completely. Being saved is easy, a child can do it. I'm currently learning how to share the gospel in a way that isn't a bible desertation or theological paper.

My point was, after being saved, the process of sanctification isn't easy, aka walking in the spirit and turning down the flesh. Even the saved struggle with sin and do sin - daily even - for do any of us love God with all our might, etc.

Once saved, always saved, yes - and possibly no - I'm up for that, still deciding. In one since, it has to be 100 percent correct, the deciding factor is how to know you are saved - because you decide you are, or because someone tells you?

The bible mentions fruit of course, gradual process of sinning less, loving righteousness more, reading the word, loving it, loving fellowship etc, so these things play a crucial role in "once saved always saved"

How about Hebrews 10 something, "For if we go on deliberately sinning after receiving knowledge of the truth, there remains no sacrfice for sin" - if one interprets that in a way, it can be troublesome.

It's best not to have the once saved always saved as a mantra - could let to sinning and taking grace for granted - a frightening prospect.

I digress.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: TTU77

what blasphemy are you spewing?

Look up Demiurge in Wikipedia.

In the arch-dualist ideology of the various Gnostic systems, the material universe is evil, while the non-material world is good. According to some strains of Gnosticism, the demiurge is malevolent, as it is linked to the material world. In others, including the teaching of Valentinus, the demiurge is simply ignorant or misguided.

eventually heaven will be on Earth!

The OP should probably say whether God and the Lamb come to Earth, where there is a river and a tree, and material things and gates that the nations can come into, with material things. (Rev 21 and 22)

Sorry friend, that's damnable heresy in my mind, with no prophecy to back anything the madness it says up.

Why believe that over the bible - its just vainity - only we small few have knowledge of the ineffable hidden things of God he hides from all except the most brilliant - yada yada

For our thoughts are not his thoughts, our ways are not his ways. He makes foolish the wise and the fools without knowledge of the world, he makes them wise instead. Shames the great and mighty with the weak and feeble. That is the heart of the God of the bible and is altogether more beautiful and lovely than the vanity gnosticism spews.

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas
Some of us are of the evil one and some of us are of The Father, The Father in His grace has opened heaven to everyone regardless.

No one has ever reached heaven because that wasn't the original plan. All this is to be destroyed "the heavens and the earth" because this creation was not created by The Father.

Jesus created everything, what blasphemy are you spewing? Only those who are in Christ are at peace with God and don't have his wraith on them, be it that means they go to heaven, or are raptured - eventually heaven will be on Earth!

You need to understand that this material realm we inhabit is evil, created by the evil one, we are to be delivered from this realm, Christ is our saviour in this respect. Open your eyes!!

a reply to: TTU77

My point was, after being saved, the process of sanctification isn't easy, aka walking in the spirit and turning down the flesh. Even the saved struggle with sin and do sin - daily even - for do any of us love God with all our might, etc.

Oh most definitely! The only thing to expect from this world being saved?
Temptation and persecution and one may not even realize what is happenig.
More and more the world targets us for loving God, mankind and creation.
As the world display it's hate for all three more and more everyday. And
anyone can see that now it's so out in the open. Honest moral God loving
people are nowdays walking around with targets on their back. While
perversion decadence chaos and lawlessness. Pedophilia rape murder and
infanticide are no longer considered evil.

a reply to: TTU77

Jesus created everything, what blasphemy are you spewing? Only those who are in Christ are at peace with God and don't have his wraith on them, be it that means they go to heaven, or are raptured - eventually heaven will be on Earth!

You should slow your roll here. Christ didn’t start his ministry until he was 30. He died at 33.

Surely God, would give his people more inspiration than a 3 year window, from one person, 2,000 years ago - to truly attain salvation.

Or maybe you believe the Creator is truly that unforgiving. I refuse the believe the Almighty is that petty.

originally posted by: Turquosie

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas
Some of us are of the evil one and some of us are of The Father, The Father in His grace has opened heaven to everyone regardless.

No one has ever reached heaven because that wasn't the original plan. All this is to be destroyed "the heavens and the earth" because this creation was not created by The Father.

Jesus created everything, what blasphemy are you spewing? Only those who are in Christ are at peace with God and don't have his wraith on them, be it that means they go to heaven, or are raptured - eventually heaven will be on Earth!

People have been saying that for centuries. And before the abrahamic religions, there was other religions saying, with certainity, that this or that rapture will come. Or that you have to believe in this or that, to make it to the chosen land in the afterlife.

Afterall, its just based on having faith that the men who written those books so many years ago had any clue to what they're talking about.

Countless religions with countless interpreations. Yet, your religion and interpretation is the right one?

Or perhaps, we're just like the men and women before us; Putting blind faith into our religions because the uknown of death is scary..

How little you seem to know about the topic you are speaking about. Who God is, and what his plans are aren't things you can just imagine on your own - you have to read the bible - the word of God.

All other religions are based on works - all of them.

No other religions have prophecy like Christianity - these are things that can be tested and shown through in time 3500 years is a long time!

Yet, both of these two things are THE answer to your question, but it won't be enough to intellectually acknowledge this knowledge.

You need to understand it, to have the wisdom to read the bible - to seek. That is something only God can give - spiritual fruit.

originally posted by: KKLOCO
a reply to: TTU77

Jesus created everything, what blasphemy are you spewing? Only those who are in Christ are at peace with God and don't have his wraith on them, be it that means they go to heaven, or are raptured - eventually heaven will be on Earth!

You should slow your roll here. Christ didn’t start his ministry until he was 30. He died at 33.

Surely God, would give his people more inspiration than a 3 year window, from one person, 2,000 years ago - to truly attain salvation.

Or maybe you believe the Creator is truly that unforgiving. I refuse the believe the Almighty is that petty.

You seem to have no knowledge on the topic you are talking about. Read the post I wrote above, applies to your post.

God gave 1500 years of prophecy before Christ - saying He will send a savior who will die for our sins, the messiah.

To this day, the person prophesised for 1500 years is the most important person ever to haved lived on Earth.

To have that come true, Jesus is God, sent by God, period. That prophecy hit the ball out of the park - undeniable prophecy.

The prophecy of the bible is beyond the scope of mans imagination. No one can predict something like this but God, the only one who can see all of time and is all power and soveriegn.

2000 years later, all is on track. That's 3500 years of time with God's word.

What fantasy world are you dreamin in, where you think it's okay to make up your own understanding of God, and to disregard the bible - the very Word of God.

Why not read it and find out for yourself.

God, unforgiving?? Do you not understand, he died so he could forgive you!! He gave His life, the highest act of love.

Again, this knowledge is the TRUTH, yet it alludes those without receiving the understanding from God. Be humble, call out to him, or remain in darkness, dreaming up your own God, dreaming yourself to be wise, yet in vainity a fool.

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas
Some of us are of the evil one and some of us are of The Father, The Father in His grace has opened heaven to everyone regardless.

No one has ever reached heaven because that wasn't the original plan. All this is to be destroyed "the heavens and the earth" because this creation was not created by The Father.

Jesus created everything, what blasphemy are you spewing? Only those who are in Christ are at peace with God and don't have his wraith on them, be it that means they go to heaven, or are raptured - eventually heaven will be on Earth!

You need to understand that this material realm we inhabit is evil, created by the evil one, we are to be delivered from this realm, Christ is our saviour in this respect. Open your eyes!!

Truly, I stay away from gnosticism. There is no prophecy. Anything not in the bible, that goes against any principle or command, is but a damnable doctrine of demons!