Why The USA Must End Drug Prohibition

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: TheBadCabbie

originally posted by: DBCowboy
From a Libertarian standpoint, legalizing drugs makes sense.

From an academic standpoint, legalizing drugs makes sense.

But it's like communism. From an academic standpoint, it makes sense.

All until you put it to practical application.

Every city where drugs have become decriminalized, crime has increased. OD deaths have increased. Hospitalizations have increased.

People muck things up. As a species, we're lazy, we steal, we most often look for shortcuts in life.

We drink, smoke, snort, shoot drugs of all types.

Hell, you want riots, ban caffeine.

As a species, we are not yet capable or mature enough to handle legalized drugs.

I am skeptical of such a claim. Nevertheless, even if I accept your criticism of what I propose as fact for the sake of this post, prohibition is still wrong. People need to be able to make their own decisions as to what they should be able to put into their bodies.

In theory, I agree.

Practical applications though? They tell a different story.

Well we all have Canada's youth using recreational cannabis studies to give us a glimpse of what might happen in the USA and that points to 'gaps' in education about the harmful effects on young people. These are newer studies on cannabis and newer studies on other desired street drugs are scarce.

Canadian youth (aged 15–24) have the highest rates of cannabis use globally. There are increasing concerns about the adverse effects of cannabis use on youth physical and mental health. However, there are gaps in our understanding of risks and harms to youth. This scoping review will synthesise the literature related to youth cannabis use in Canada. We will examine the relationship between youth cannabis use and physical and mental health, and the relationship with use of other substances. We will also examine prevention strategies for youth cannabis use in Canada and how the literature addresses social determinants of health.

Studies show that health knowledge and awareness of perceived risks influence the rates of cannabis consumption with higher rates when a substance is not perceived as harmful, which makes education and prevention a public health priority.15 17 Canadian youth have a wide range of beliefs about recreational cannabis use, and many have misconceptions and lack information about the risks and harms associated with cannabis use.18 19 Service providers also have gaps in knowledge about cannabis use in youth and need more education and training.20 21 A recent survey conducted in the USA where 11 states have legalised recreational cannabis use found variation and gaps in service providers’ knowledge and beliefs on cannabis. Many service providers described discomfort discussing cannabis use with clients.22 Parents and caregivers also need more information on the harms associated with cannabis use in youth, and studies have shown that parents have concerns about the adverse effects of cannabis use on mental health.23 24 There is inadequate support for families and insufficient knowledge that is drawn from the lived experiences of diverse families.25 Parents have been described as ‘invisible experts’ as they are often the core support for youth with substance use disorders, but their perspectives are often excluded from research, services, and policies.23 26

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

a reply to: JinMI

I agree.

And I do wish we could legalize drugs and that people who used them were responsible.

But I feel that if we were hard on illegal activities and soft on drug use, our jails would fill up rapidly.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: JinMI

I agree.

And I do wish we could legalize drugs and that people who used them were responsible.

But I feel that if we were hard on illegal activities and soft on drug use, our jails would fill up rapidly.

Oh I get it, I'm just trying to make sense of two possibly impossible positions.

Liberty and law

On one hand, liberty has to allow for failure due to detrimental behavior. On the other, we must have a pragmatic approach to law while also adhering to liberty.

The entire point of law is a means to remove liberties.


You mentioned "on paper" versus "in practice" and this very much falls under that. The obvious facts of the matter is that they heavier the drug and use, the more detrimental the effects will become.

a reply to: quintessentone

You can post a hundred blog posts on how it's wonderful somewhere else.

I live in Portland and see it daily.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: quintessentone

You can post a hundred blog posts on how it's wonderful somewhere else.

I live in Portland and see it daily.

Yeah, not sure why. Maybe the gaps in getting education out there or people just wanna get high and damn the torpedoes.

a reply to: quintessentone

Portland is a schitzo city.

On one hand they want to defund police, allow shoplifting, decriminalize drugs, but on the other hand they want businesses to stay and can't figure out why insurance companies won't insure downtown businesses.

People are leaving Portland. Some news article said 30% (local story)

And the folks that are staying?

We bunker down like its WWZ.

My wife and I like to stay at the Sentinel, an offbeat luxury hotel downtown every once in a while.

We just don't go outside after dark.

It's not worth it.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: quintessentone

Portland is a schitzo city.

On one hand they want to defund police, allow shoplifting, decriminalize drugs, but on the other hand they want businesses to stay and can't figure out why insurance companies won't insure downtown businesses.

People are leaving Portland. Some news article said 30% (local story)

And the folks that are staying?

We bunker down like its WWZ.

My wife and I like to stay at the Sentinel, an offbeat luxury hotel downtown every once in a while.

We just don't go outside after dark.

It's not worth it.

Looks like they did it backwards decriminalizing without treatment centers. Genius leadership. /sarc

“What’s next is that the Mayor and the Chair, the city and the county, need to work together,” said Ryan. “Community safety is a joint effort. We are the first responders. The county is where we take people to treatment centers, to jail if necessary. That’s where the judicial system is, the courts. We need to work together on this as a team. I really hope the Mayor and the Chair bring us together and have a special session of our own locally. I really hope the state legislature gets it right in the short session. We obviously did it backwards; what we needed with Measure 110 was treatment centers first and then we could look at the decriminalization.”

www.kptv.com...

Anyway open drug use ban is now in place and I'm not sure what that will look like in this city but if they defunded the police and funneled the money to street counsellors and/or treatment centers then a noticeable positive effect should be seen. Famous last words.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I disagree. I don't believe the handful of idiots that will abuse drugs should prevent the rest of us from using them responsibly.

Know what also increases crime? Illegal drugs that produces a huge drug market. Legalize drugs and their market goes away. Sure, there will be some more crime from legalization, but it will balance out with far less gangs killing each other and random passerbys over drug deals.

While I can understand an arguement against heroin and meth, I don't see any issue with psychedelic drugs like mushrooms, dmt, acid, ect... Just because a handful of people will have bad trips, doesn't mean the rest of us should be limited and babysat by the government.

The war on drugs have failed, the government has no reasoning to keep many of these drugs illegal.

Furthermore, legalization of drugs will increase our knowledge of them on how to improve on current drugs that give better highs that reduce addiction and bad trips.

Lets get real, the real reason ddrugs are illegal is because they 1. can't be controlled by big pharma 2. expand people's minds 3. allow the government to leverage drugs for their own agendas (look at the crack epidemic in the 80s) 4. Private Prisons and many other reasons.

Government DOES NOT care about any of our well-being. They've proved that time and time again. They have zero business in dictating what goes into our own bodies.

You'd think republicans would be for less government but they seem to love government control when it suits them.

a reply to: Turquosie

Puddin' I'm seeing the practical applications of legalized drug use.

You can spout any damned thing you want, but I'm living in it.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Turquosie

Puddin' I'm seeing the practical applications of legalized drug use.

You can spout any damned thing you want, but I'm living in it.

You are seeing Portland, Oregon where those in charge do things Full a@@ backwards.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Turquosie

Puddin' I'm seeing the practical applications of legalized drug use.

You can spout any damned thing you want, but I'm living in it.

You are seeing Portland, Oregon where those in charge do things Full a@@ backwards.

They are the ones in charge.

Those in Seattle, San Fran are also complete assholes.

Show me a city where drugs are legalized and crime has dropped and I will apologize and bow out.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Turquosie

Puddin' I'm seeing the practical applications of legalized drug use.

You can spout any damned thing you want, but I'm living in it.

You are seeing Portland, Oregon where those in charge do things Full a@@ backwards.

They are the ones in charge.

Those in Seattle, San Fran are also complete assholes.

Show me a city where drugs are legalized and crime has dropped and I will apologize and bow out.

Now you have jumped to crime which is a whole other subject.

a reply to: Turquosie

How do you responsibly use heroin, meth or any other deeply addictive substance?

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Turquosie

How do you responsibly use heroin, meth or any other deeply addictive substance?

The same way as alcohol use which is highly addictive; chasing the high.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Turquosie

How do you responsibly use heroin, meth or any other deeply addictive substance?

The same way as alcohol use which is highly addictive.

Ok,

Not worth the time discussing then.

There is a clear dichotomy between alcohol and heroin in behavior, addiction and recovery. Not to mention life paths attributed to such.

originally posted by: JinMI

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Turquosie

How do you responsibly use heroin, meth or any other deeply addictive substance?

The same way as alcohol use which is highly addictive.

Ok,

Not worth the time discussing then.

There is a clear dichotomy between alcohol and heroin in behavior, addiction and recovery. Not to mention life paths attributed to such.

I believe in 'experienced' street counsellors for all addictive behaviours because that's what it boils down to, psychological trauma comes first then alcohol/drug use follows.

a reply to: quintessentone

Sure, thats a net benefit regardless of legality.

Yet I'm still pondering the question I asked.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Turquosie

Puddin' I'm seeing the practical applications of legalized drug use.

You can spout any damned thing you want, but I'm living in it.

You are seeing Portland, Oregon where those in charge do things Full a@@ backwards.

They are the ones in charge.

Those in Seattle, San Fran are also complete assholes.

Show me a city where drugs are legalized and crime has dropped and I will apologize and bow out.

Now you have jumped to crime which is a whole other subject.

No.

You cannot separate legalized drugs from crime because they are proportional.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: quintessentone

Sure, thats a net benefit regardless of legality.

Yet I'm still pondering the question I asked.

That question was not posed to me. I'm on the solutions track.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Turquosie

Puddin' I'm seeing the practical applications of legalized drug use.

You can spout any damned thing you want, but I'm living in it.

You are seeing Portland, Oregon where those in charge do things Full a@@ backwards.

They are the ones in charge.

Those in Seattle, San Fran are also complete assholes.

Show me a city where drugs are legalized and crime has dropped and I will apologize and bow out.

Now you have jumped to crime which is a whole other subject.

No.

You cannot separate legalized drugs from crime because they are proportional.

Yes you can because state of economy, survival on the streets etc. Drugs don't have to come into it.