Transgender women banned from sports is one thing. Banned from chess! Now it's getting silly.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: quintessentone

Oh, a single study said so. I see.

Chess isn’t played anonymously and the factors I listed are the likely reason for disparity in performance when it is.

You just disproved your own position, I’m getting tired of illogical nonsense just for the sake of argument.

Think before you speak.

It's always the tactic by gender ideologues and activists to throw illogical statements and strawman arguments. They have nothing else to hold on to.

Rejecting sound studies and science is not believing in observational reality? Your beliefs rooted in validating a narrative without any studies or science, specifically with this subject the study proved that women perform equally to men in chess matches when certain factors are eliminated. You can't argue with the ratings from the matches done in this study.

What sound studies are you talking about when you're rejecting reality and science as a whole.

Your beliefs rooted in validating a narrative without any studies or science

That describes you perfectly.


If you think 'science' depends on a single study you're deluded massively.

a reply to: Terpene

Just once it would be nice to log on and see a halfway decent reply from you that is not an all out attack because you can't understand a simple question.

You made the clam that "there are many ways to define a human", but there are not.

Human has one definition; "a bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens)"

A human can have defining traits, but not more than one definition.


What I expect as an actual answer is not one full of backhanded insults and the attempt to make yourself seem smarter than others through the use of insults.

Your idea of a "productive dialogue" is one where you are right about everything and nobody else refutes your claims because you are the smartest person alive. Someone like you, with a ego the size of the moon, does not look for a constructive dialogue, only one where they are right and everyone else is wrong.

But, considering your track record, you will refute this statement and claim that I am just going into my "echo chamber" and no real progress will be made.


Don't let the door hit ya on the way out

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: quintessentone

Oh, a single study said so. I see.

Chess isn’t played anonymously and the factors I listed are the likely reason for disparity in performance when it is.

You just disproved your own position, I’m getting tired of illogical nonsense just for the sake of argument.

Think before you speak.

It's always the tactic by gender ideologues and activists to throw illogical statements and strawman arguments. They have nothing else to hold on to.

Rejecting sound studies and science is not believing in observational reality? Your beliefs rooted in validating a narrative without any studies or science, specifically with this subject the study proved that women perform equally to men in chess matches when certain factors are eliminated. You can't argue with the ratings from the matches done in this study.

What sound studies are you talking about when you're rejecting reality and science as a whole.

Your beliefs rooted in validating a narrative without any studies or science

That describes you perfectly.


If you think 'science' depends on a single study you're deluded massively.

This single study was done correctly and if you want to let's go through it method by method and you can tell me why you reject it. Game on?

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: AlienBorg

you're incapable of having a discussion.

more fantasy land for phobicBorg... have fun in your fear driven illusions.

Yes, this member has issues and if I could I'd give you all the stars and flags just for trying.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: quintessentone

Oh, a single study said so. I see.

Chess isn’t played anonymously and the factors I listed are the likely reason for disparity in performance when it is.

You just disproved your own position, I’m getting tired of illogical nonsense just for the sake of argument.

Think before you speak.

It's always the tactic by gender ideologues and activists to throw illogical statements and strawman arguments. They have nothing else to hold on to.

Rejecting sound studies and science is not believing in observational reality? Your beliefs rooted in validating a narrative without any studies or science, specifically with this subject the study proved that women perform equally to men in chess matches when certain factors are eliminated. You can't argue with the ratings from the matches done in this study.

What sound studies are you talking about when you're rejecting reality and science as a whole.

Your beliefs rooted in validating a narrative without any studies or science

That describes you perfectly.


If you think 'science' depends on a single study you're deluded massively.

This single study was done correctly and if you want to let's go through it method by method and you can tell me why you reject it. Game on?

The fact you're missing out is that men have an advantage in chess as shown in their rankings and achievements.

unherd.com...

The truth is that human beings are part of nature. Men and women evolved different bodies and we have also evolved different psychologies. It’s possible that evolution has left men with an innate advantage in chess.

According to Dr Carole Hooven, Harvard evolutionary biologist and author of Testosterone: The Story of the Hormone that Dominates Us and Divides Us, “males have a large advantage over females in spatial ability and, to the extent that spatial ability contributes to chess performance, this would help to explain the male advantage (on average) in chess.’ Speaking to UnHerd, Hooven added: “Of course, social factors matter too, but we should not rule out the possibility that males’ inherited biology contributes to the male advantage

Something we already know (men's advantages in chess over women).

Transwomen are men and so have no place in female sports and competitions including chess.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: AlienBorg

let's assume a scenario whereas a male born legal female enlists in women sports. how are they going to ban her?

let's see, the legal grounds on which they ban her?

you know trans is a legal gender, you do?

the only ones banned from female sports are those that choose "other" in their passport, where they can choose their gender marker.

You have no way to prove her birth assigned gender without violating her privacy. But maybe that's where this is going anyway...
less privacy for more security?
it never stops to astonish me how gullible some actually are when it's about a topic they are emotionally invested in.

This is all it's about with some of the anti-trans sentiment here it's all knee jerk emotions and rejecting of all the new science and studies that try to shed more light on this phenomenon, at least for those that have closed their minds shut to due to bias.

I will continue to follow the science and keep an open mind because it's all new territory and post here new findings in the hope some will open their minds to understand the reality.

As for any exercises in mental spatial abilities comparing men vs women vs whomever, gender expression and sex there appears to be no inequality.

However, as for physical competitions there appears to be issues and I've posted many examples in many of these anti-trans threads over time. Not all physical competitions have issues but most do so this is why there are bans within women's sports.

You don't follow the science but a dogma based on the premises of a constructed but fictitious gender identity ideology.

It's not logical to argue in favour of transwomen in female sports and competitions simply because they are men and this can never change. Even chess has decided to ban transwomen from female competitions.

Perhaps you can take the study you think it's 'scirence' and argue the chess federation to reverse the ban based solely on one study and on questionable conclusions.

a reply to: Terpene

I find it kind of absurd that a male will be born as 'legal female' according to your statement. They will 'transition' him just after his birth?? Or may before he is born?? Maybe the doctors are very incompetent and can't say the difference between a boy and a girl by looking at the genitalia? All these worries, what a strange ideology! Really strange to be honest.

What is relevant is transwomen have been banned from chess as well as from several others sports. That is a blow to the trans ideology. Even chess has had enough with men trying to find their way in women's competitions.

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: quintessentone

Oh, a single study said so. I see.

Chess isn’t played anonymously and the factors I listed are the likely reason for disparity in performance when it is.

You just disproved your own position, I’m getting tired of illogical nonsense just for the sake of argument.

Think before you speak.

It's always the tactic by gender ideologues and activists to throw illogical statements and strawman arguments. They have nothing else to hold on to.

Rejecting sound studies and science is not believing in observational reality? Your beliefs rooted in validating a narrative without any studies or science, specifically with this subject the study proved that women perform equally to men in chess matches when certain factors are eliminated. You can't argue with the ratings from the matches done in this study.

What sound studies are you talking about when you're rejecting reality and science as a whole.

Your beliefs rooted in validating a narrative without any studies or science

That describes you perfectly.


If you think 'science' depends on a single study you're deluded massively.

This single study was done correctly and if you want to let's go through it method by method and you can tell me why you reject it. Game on?

The fact you're missing out is that men have an advantage in chess as shown in their rankings and achievements.

unherd.com...

The truth is that human beings are part of nature. Men and women evolved different bodies and we have also evolved different psychologies. It’s possible that evolution has left men with an innate advantage in chess.

According to Dr Carole Hooven, Harvard evolutionary biologist and author of Testosterone: The Story of the Hormone that Dominates Us and Divides Us, “males have a large advantage over females in spatial ability and, to the extent that spatial ability contributes to chess performance, this would help to explain the male advantage (on average) in chess.’ Speaking to UnHerd, Hooven added: “Of course, social factors matter too, but we should not rule out the possibility that males’ inherited biology contributes to the male advantage

Something we already know (men's advantages in chess over women).

Transwomen are men and so have no place in female sports and competitions including chess.

As for advantages, there are many for men and less so for women, read this:

"Does Gender Make Chess Skill"

theexonian.net...

If one believes that male chess players have many advantages over female chess players (as per the article above; as they always have over women in this game) then it could be argued that a man transitioning into a transwoman wanting to play with women had all the extra advantages along the way in the game when they were a man. They then bring those advantages into a woman's chess tournament, therefore the playing field is not equal.

However, on the other hand, if the man transitioning into a transwomen is equal in experience and advantages within the game of chess as women, then what psychology would be a play here with the women players? Will they still view the transwoman as a man who had all the advantages along the way?

I'd like to see more studies of chess players of all persuasions play anonymously so we can get a truer picture of the reality.

a reply to: AlienBorg

It's not logical to argue in favour of transwomen in female sports and competitions simply because they are men and this can never change. Even chess has decided to ban transwomen from female competitions.

If the chess tournaments are played anonymously there should be no issue. The issues are prevalent when the game is played face-to-face where sociological and psychological issues come into play.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: quintessentone

Oh, a single study said so. I see.

Chess isn’t played anonymously and the factors I listed are the likely reason for disparity in performance when it is.

You just disproved your own position, I’m getting tired of illogical nonsense just for the sake of argument.

Think before you speak.

It's always the tactic by gender ideologues and activists to throw illogical statements and strawman arguments. They have nothing else to hold on to.

Rejecting sound studies and science is not believing in observational reality? Your beliefs rooted in validating a narrative without any studies or science, specifically with this subject the study proved that women perform equally to men in chess matches when certain factors are eliminated. You can't argue with the ratings from the matches done in this study.

What sound studies are you talking about when you're rejecting reality and science as a whole.

Your beliefs rooted in validating a narrative without any studies or science

That describes you perfectly.


If you think 'science' depends on a single study you're deluded massively.

This single study was done correctly and if you want to let's go through it method by method and you can tell me why you reject it. Game on?

The fact you're missing out is that men have an advantage in chess as shown in their rankings and achievements.

unherd.com...

The truth is that human beings are part of nature. Men and women evolved different bodies and we have also evolved different psychologies. It’s possible that evolution has left men with an innate advantage in chess.

According to Dr Carole Hooven, Harvard evolutionary biologist and author of Testosterone: The Story of the Hormone that Dominates Us and Divides Us, “males have a large advantage over females in spatial ability and, to the extent that spatial ability contributes to chess performance, this would help to explain the male advantage (on average) in chess.’ Speaking to UnHerd, Hooven added: “Of course, social factors matter too, but we should not rule out the possibility that males’ inherited biology contributes to the male advantage

Something we already know (men's advantages in chess over women).

Transwomen are men and so have no place in female sports and competitions including chess.

As for advantages, there are many for men and less so for women, read this:

"Does Gender Make Chess Skill"

theexonian.net...

If one believes that male chess players have many advantages over female chess players (as per the article above; as they always have over women in this game) then it could be argued that a man transitioning into a transwoman wanting to play with women had all the extra advantages along the way of in the game when they were a man. The then bring those advantages into a woman's chess tournament, therefore the playing field is not equal.

However, on the other hand, if the man transitioning into a transwomen is equal in experience and advantages within the game of chess as women, then what psychology would be a play here with the women players? Will they still view the transwoman as a man who had all the advantages along the way?

I'd like to see more studies of chess players of all persuasions play anonymously so we can get a truer picture of the reality.

Your post isn't relevant. We all know male chess players have advantages over female chess players. The best female players rank low on the world rankings and that's always been the case.

As mentioned above by Dr Carole Hooven from Harvard who is an evolutionary biologist and stated the obvious and something well known for years.

males have a large advantage over females in spatial ability and, to the extent that spatial ability contributes to chess performance, this would help to explain the male advantage (on average) in chess

There is no doubt males have a good advantage over females in chess and this cannot change.

No need for further studies or appeals for bogus research on people who play anonymously. Chess isn't played anonymously or behind curtains as Grenade explained to you earlier.

The reality is very different to what you're trying to argue

Transwomen are now banned from chess female competitions.

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: AlienBorg

It's not logical to argue in favour of transwomen in female sports and competitions simply because they are men and this can never change. Even chess has decided to ban transwomen from female competitions.

If the chess tournaments are played anonymously there should be no issue. The issues are prevalent when the game is played face-to-face where sociological and psychological issues come into play.

This is an absurd proposition having no merits.
Males have advantages over females in chess that cannot be eliminated by playing anonymously. There is no evidence for this and your single study proves nothing of this sort.

males have a large advantage over females in spatial ability and, to the extent that spatial ability contributes to chess performance, this would help to explain the male advantage (on average) in chess

Dr Carole Hooper stating facts.

a reply to: quintessentone

Unlike the wildly popular Netflix chess-themed series The Queen’s Gambit, female players have struggled to climb to the top of the real-life chess world. Just 37 of the more than 1,600 international chess grandmasters are women. The current top-rated female, Hou Yifan, is ranked 89th in the world, while the reigning women’s world champion Ju Wenjun is 404th

Rankings are from 89th to 404th for the top female chess players worldwide. The true picture as everyone knows.

theconversation.com...

a reply to: AlienBorg

What is relevant is transwomen have been banned from chess as well as from several others sports. That is a blow to the trans ideology. Even chess has had enough with men trying to find their way in women's competitions.

this is right, and fully transitioned women no matter their chromosomes are not affected by the ban...

XY will still be competing against XX in chess, in the male and female categories. this mainly affects transvestites or those in transition but not finished. I think that's ok.

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: quintessentone

Oh, a single study said so. I see.

Chess isn’t played anonymously and the factors I listed are the likely reason for disparity in performance when it is.

You just disproved your own position, I’m getting tired of illogical nonsense just for the sake of argument.

Think before you speak.

It's always the tactic by gender ideologues and activists to throw illogical statements and strawman arguments. They have nothing else to hold on to.

Rejecting sound studies and science is not believing in observational reality? Your beliefs rooted in validating a narrative without any studies or science, specifically with this subject the study proved that women perform equally to men in chess matches when certain factors are eliminated. You can't argue with the ratings from the matches done in this study.

What sound studies are you talking about when you're rejecting reality and science as a whole.

Your beliefs rooted in validating a narrative without any studies or science

That describes you perfectly.


If you think 'science' depends on a single study you're deluded massively.

This single study was done correctly and if you want to let's go through it method by method and you can tell me why you reject it. Game on?

The fact you're missing out is that men have an advantage in chess as shown in their rankings and achievements.

unherd.com...

The truth is that human beings are part of nature. Men and women evolved different bodies and we have also evolved different psychologies. It’s possible that evolution has left men with an innate advantage in chess.

According to Dr Carole Hooven, Harvard evolutionary biologist and author of Testosterone: The Story of the Hormone that Dominates Us and Divides Us, “males have a large advantage over females in spatial ability and, to the extent that spatial ability contributes to chess performance, this would help to explain the male advantage (on average) in chess.’ Speaking to UnHerd, Hooven added: “Of course, social factors matter too, but we should not rule out the possibility that males’ inherited biology contributes to the male advantage

Something we already know (men's advantages in chess over women).

Transwomen are men and so have no place in female sports and competitions including chess.

As for advantages, there are many for men and less so for women, read this:

"Does Gender Make Chess Skill"

theexonian.net...

If one believes that male chess players have many advantages over female chess players (as per the article above; as they always have over women in this game) then it could be argued that a man transitioning into a transwoman wanting to play with women had all the extra advantages along the way of in the game when they were a man. The then bring those advantages into a woman's chess tournament, therefore the playing field is not equal.

However, on the other hand, if the man transitioning into a transwomen is equal in experience and advantages within the game of chess as women, then what psychology would be a play here with the women players? Will they still view the transwoman as a man who had all the advantages along the way?

I'd like to see more studies of chess players of all persuasions play anonymously so we can get a truer picture of the reality.

Your post isn't relevant. We all know male chess players have advantages over female chess players. The best female players rank low on the world rankings and that's always been the case.

As mentioned above by Dr Carole Hooven from Harvard who is an evolutionary biologist and stated the obvious and something well known for years.

males have a large advantage over females in spatial ability and, to the extent that spatial ability contributes to chess performance, this would help to explain the male advantage (on average) in chess

There is no doubt males have a good advantage over females in chess and this cannot change.

No need for further studies or appeals for bogus research on people who play anonymously. Chess isn't played anonymously or behind curtains as Grenade explained to you earlier.

The reality is very different to what you're trying to argue

Transwomen are now banned from chess female competitions.

The advantages men chess players have had over the years are not related to spatial ability and this is proven when women play men anonymously as the results clearly show they are equal in skill sets.

originally posted by: AlienBorg
a reply to: quintessentone

Unlike the wildly popular Netflix chess-themed series The Queen’s Gambit, female players have struggled to climb to the top of the real-life chess world. Just 37 of the more than 1,600 international chess grandmasters are women. The current top-rated female, Hou Yifan, is ranked 89th in the world, while the reigning women’s world champion Ju Wenjun is 404th

Rankings are from 89th to 404th for the top female chess players worldwide. The true picture as everyone knows.

theconversation.com...

Rankings are separated by gender, when women and men play anonymously there is no discrepancy in rankings.

a reply to: AlienBorg

Women are surprisingly underrepresented in the chess world, representing less that 5% of registered tournament players worldwide and only 1% of the world's grand masters. In this paper it is argued that gender stereotypes are mainly responsible for the underperformance of women in chess. Forty-two male–female pairs, matched for ability, played two chess games via Internet. When players were unaware of the sex of opponent (control condition), females played approximately as well as males.When the gender stereotype was activated (experimental condition), women showed a drastic performance drop, but only when they were aware that they were playing against a male opponent. When they (falsely) believed to be playing against a woman, they performed as well as their male opponents. In addition, our findings suggest that women show lower chess-specific self-esteem and a weaker promotion focus, which are predictive of poorer chess performance. Copyright © 2007 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.

onlinelibrary.wiley.com...

ETA: Another one.

This paper aims to measure differences in risk behavior among expert chess players. The study employs a panel data set on international chess with 1.4 million games recorded over a period of 11 years. The structure of the data set allows us to use individual fixed-effect estimations to control for aspects such as innate ability as well as other characteristics of the players. Most notably, the data contains an objective measure of individual playing strength, the so-called Elo rating. In line with previous research, we find that women are more risk-averse than men. A novel finding is that males choose more aggressive strategies when playing against female opponents even though such strategies reduce their winning probability.

papers.ssrn.com...

Not only do women's behaviours change when playing against men, but men's behaviours also change when playing against women in face-to-face matches.

a reply to: quintessentone

Exactly, when the game is played anonymously these factors aren’t important as psychological intimidation etc becomes irrelevant. You’re proving my points while simultaneously arguing with them.


I can’t simplify this anymore, think about it logically if that’s possible.