FSB Starts criminal proceedings against Prigozhin for "the Organization of Armed Insurrection"

originally posted by: datguy

my point is, in each case, contradictory to the comment i replied to, was that the US military left people behind
Edit: i should have included iran as well

Ah, a person after perfection... Don't forget the Bay of Pigs...

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: MisguidedAngel

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: MisguidedAngel

Actually one of the main reasons, if not the main reason Russia invaded was to protect the Ethnic Russian Ukrainians in Donbass and other Eastern Ukrainian areas who the Ukrainian army, Ukrainian Azovs and Nazis had been attacking and slaughtering since 2014.

By that sort of logic, America should invade the UK to return Northern Ireland to the Irish.

Internal matters are not really the concern of other nations

That's not even CLOSE to same type of logic, not even close.

The same type of logic would be if Millions of American citizens or citizens with American parents/grandparents all lived in one area of Canada. Let's just say Alberta, Canada has 20 million citizens and 95% of them are American or atleast have American parents. In Alberta where all these Americans live, they live with all their American customs (I know Canadian and American customs are essentially the same but for argument sake), they haven't adopted into the Canadian culture. Groups of Canadian Nationalists don't like the Americans, they don't like that they won't drop their American customs, they don't like that they won't live the "Canadian way". The Canadian Nationalists while being backed by the Canadian government launch an attack on the Americans that all live together in Alberta. The Americans fight back but are overpowered by the Canadian army and Nationalists.

Since the USA IS next door to Canada they see that the Americans living in Canada are getting attacked and slaughtered.


You don't think the USA would send armed forces to Canada to protect all the millions of Americans living together in the same part of Canada??

Of course they would. The US sends armed forces across the world to protect a handful of Americans at American embassies, they would surely protect millions of Americans that are under attack.

I got a question based on your misguided theory.

How come if millions and millions of ethnic Russian were being attacked in Ukraine, more refugees from Ukraine ended up in NATO-aligned countries instead of Russia?

one would think if that many citizens were upset about the treatment of the Ukrainian government, they would have went to the country they shared a 1000 km border instead of going further west to NATO and European countries.

In other words, in a country of 42 million, the 2.8 million that went to Russia is a little over 6%

42 million people never left Ukraine. The Numb3rs for Russia haven't been updated in about 9 months or so.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Ravenwatcher
Either way didn't Putin just lose 25,000 fighters ?

It depends which day of the official narrative we believe. A few days ago the "Ukraine is winning by a landslide!" narrative had the Wagner group decimated down to about 5,000 troops.

Yesterday, when the narrative needed to be that they had a serious chance at overthrowing Putin, they suddenly were 25,000 strong, with no explanation of the disparity. They just hope no one notices they contradicted themselves for the 500th time.

I’ve never heard that “official narrative”. Personally I think it’s just something you made up to fit your own narrative.

Never heard Ukraines winning by a landslide, just that they’re doing far better than anyone first thought they would. I’ve also always heard Wagner had a force of 50k troops.

originally posted by: MisguidedAngel

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: MisguidedAngel

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: MisguidedAngel

Actually one of the main reasons, if not the main reason Russia invaded was to protect the Ethnic Russian Ukrainians in Donbass and other Eastern Ukrainian areas who the Ukrainian army, Ukrainian Azovs and Nazis had been attacking and slaughtering since 2014.

By that sort of logic, America should invade the UK to return Northern Ireland to the Irish.

Internal matters are not really the concern of other nations

That's not even CLOSE to same type of logic, not even close.

The same type of logic would be if Millions of American citizens or citizens with American parents/grandparents all lived in one area of Canada. Let's just say Alberta, Canada has 20 million citizens and 95% of them are American or atleast have American parents. In Alberta where all these Americans live, they live with all their American customs (I know Canadian and American customs are essentially the same but for argument sake), they haven't adopted into the Canadian culture. Groups of Canadian Nationalists don't like the Americans, they don't like that they won't drop their American customs, they don't like that they won't live the "Canadian way". The Canadian Nationalists while being backed by the Canadian government launch an attack on the Americans that all live together in Alberta. The Americans fight back but are overpowered by the Canadian army and Nationalists.

Since the USA IS next door to Canada they see that the Americans living in Canada are getting attacked and slaughtered.


You don't think the USA would send armed forces to Canada to protect all the millions of Americans living together in the same part of Canada??

Of course they would. The US sends armed forces across the world to protect a handful of Americans at American embassies, they would surely protect millions of Americans that are under attack.

I got a question based on your misguided theory.

How come if millions and millions of ethnic Russian were being attacked in Ukraine, more refugees from Ukraine ended up in NATO-aligned countries instead of Russia?

one would think if that many citizens were upset about the treatment of the Ukrainian government, they would have went to the country they shared a 1000 km border instead of going further west to NATO and European countries.

In other words, in a country of 42 million, the 2.8 million that went to Russia is a little over 6%

42 million people never left Ukraine. The Numb3rs for Russia haven't been updated in about 9 months or so.

In a war full of inflated numbers where are you pulling your millions and millions from, respectfully...


So you are suggesting how many have fled to Russia in the last 9 months 1 million 2 million? I suppose it's possible, considering how porous the Russian border with Ukraine is, but still millions and millions I believe was your quote.
Obviously not that many have left, nor does it address the 4 million or so that have returned to Ukraine.

Why would that many return to the lands where they were hunted and persecuted?

For your hypothesis to be true those numbers would be significantly higher, not to mention shouldn't there be a significant resistance movement in Ukraine full of Russian sympathizers, yet we hear no such stories, nor see any raw data.

Not saying none of your accusations didn't happen, just It's doubtful it was in such large numbers, and it wasn't certainly enough to warrant the invasion of Ukraine, it just wasn't.

www.cfr.org...

The number of refugees leaving Ukraine has slowed somewhat after peaking in March 2022; since then, nearly six million have returned home. Even so, migrant experts warn that Russia’s planned spring offensives could generate up to four million additional refugees in 2023.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: MisguidedAngel

Since you claimed that Ukraine built that dam to murder babies, were prove wrong as it was Soviet built in 1956, and no hint of any apology, you will forgive me for taking your posts with a very large pinch of salt.

"Built the dam" or "shutdown the dam" doesn't really matter how I worded it I was driving down the freeway??? The point was that Ukraine TURNED OFF the Crimeans water in 2014 when Crimea joined Russia. That's the whole point, Crimea was NO LONGER getting FRESH WATER from the North Crimean Canal.

UKRAINE shut off the fresh water on their own people is the basis of my post. Whether they built a dam, turned it off or got space aliens to stop the water it really doesn't matter, what matters is they denied their own people Fresh Water

originally posted by: MisguidedAngel

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: MisguidedAngel

Since you claimed that Ukraine built that dam to murder babies, were prove wrong as it was Soviet built in 1956, and no hint of any apology, you will forgive me for taking your posts with a very large pinch of salt.

"Built the dam" or "shutdown the dam" doesn't really matter how I worded it I was driving down the freeway??? The point was that Ukraine TURNED OFF the Crimeans water in 2014 when Crimea joined Russia. That's the whole point, Crimea was NO LONGER getting FRESH WATER from the North Crimean Canal.

UKRAINE shut off the fresh water on their own people is the basis of my post. Whether they built a dam, turned it off or got space aliens to stop the water it really doesn't matter, what matters is they denied their own people Fresh Water

Respectfully use your type of analogies we will have water wars all over the US, California for example needs to be invaded, and perhaps Florida ought to invade Georgia.

Honestly, it all comes down to numbers, so we have 2.4 million Crimeans, the previously established 2.9 million Ukrainian refugees which gives us approximately 5.3 million Russian sympathizers, how is a country supposed to operate placating 12% of thier total population, and FWIW 700,000 of those in Crimea were Russians inserted into Crimea after 2014.

No totals approaching a majority of the total combined population, and not enough to warrant the wholesale destruction of the Eastern Provinces or the civilian losses incurred with Putin's folly.

All this is doing is making the MIC rich, when you throw in the fact of Russia's fractured military it was irresponsible to take on a task they were ill-prepared to not only finish but do so quickly and less disruptive.

Russia was literally digging up its roads into Moscow, as an offshoot response to this mess. I suppose that was all part of the plan too.

a reply to: MrInquisitive sorry mate just seen your reply. Totally see now the egg in the face he as not diminished. Can't understand much no more about what's going on out there. As a Russian once said to me "we are people of the ease, you are of the west, we are different"

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

If the first few minutes of this vid is not fake. Then it looks like a failed attempt by the CIA to destabilize the leadership of Russia. It looks like they might have been on to it. That's why they didn't arm Wagner to the extent required.? www.bitchute.com...
Plus Canadian prepper seems to have a clue about what's occurring. www.bitchute.com...

originally posted by: datguy
a reply to: gortex

So, the three have known each other for decades
Putin couldn't send nukes to Lukashenko
Prigozhin sends his troops to Voronezh to pick up the nukes
Then gets to retire in Belarus after delivering nukes to Lukashenko
because, "no more corruption and bureaucracy"

???

did I get that right?

No , Lukashenko already got his Nukes a couple of weeks ago.

BODY LANGUAGE - PUTIN VS WAGNER GROUP

An analysis of some of the body language going on with Prigozhin and Putin around these events. Putin comes across as confident and strong. Prigozhin is keeping it cool despite some heavy things going on.

a reply to: kwakakev

Putin comes across as confident and strong.

Not that confident if you follow the dots.

Putin's special Il96-300PU (Control Point) aircraft departed Moscow for St Petersburg at 14:16 (Moscow time), according to FlightRadar data. The destination of the aircraft is not indicated, and it disappeared from the tracking system over the Tver area. One of Putin's residences is located in Tver Oblast. Equipment for the control of the Russian Armed Forces is installed on this aircraft.
www.pravda.com.ua...

Prigozhin thought his time had come , sadly for him but lucky for us he miscalculated the timing of his move and found himself alone on his crusade to liberate Russia from the Cabal that controls it , now like so many of history's losers he finds himself in exile.

Some speculation on why Prigozhin chose to back down.

a reply to: anonentity

If the first few minutes of this vid is not fake.

Well, that kind of statement hardly inspires confidence in the veracity of the evidence you choose to present.

If you don't know if the videos you post in support of the arguments you're trying to make are fake or not it may be best to err on the side of caution or wait until you have actual tangible evidence to support your claims of CIA destabilising the Russian leadership.

After reading the whole thread this video is very fitting, smh...

NSFW

It's amusing watching the media marionettes dance,

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: MisguidedAngel

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: MisguidedAngel

That's not even CLOSE to same type of logic, not even close.

I disagree, plenty of Americans associate with also being Irish, hence following your spurious way of thought, and the track record where the likes of "the troubles" are concerned they would be free to invade the UK to do something about it.

Again, other nations "Internal matters" are not really the concern of anybody else hence what transpired in Ukraine regarding separatists is really none of Russian concern.

It's still not even close, there aren't millions of Americans living in one area over there

However.

Latinos now outnumber non-Hispanic whites in Texas, census data shows

www.nbcnews.com...


You would be Ok if the Hispanics in Texas wanted to be part of Mexico again then ?

Is the US government targeting Hispanics with laws and rules? Are there groups of American nationlists that are backed by the US government that are attacking towns and cities that only Hispanics live in? Are Hispanic neighborhoods, schools, grocery stores and houses being bombed by the US government? NO. so the Hispanics have no reason to want to separate, but if the majority of the Hispanics lived in one area of the country and they were being singled out and killed because of who they were, # would go down

a reply to: MisguidedAngel

Hispanics have no reason to want to separate.

Why would they need to have a reason ? If they just wanted to become part of Mexico that is reason enough.

So i take it you would be ok if they wanted that ?

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: MisguidedAngel

Hispanics have no reason to want to separate.

Why would they need to have a reason ? If they just wanted to become part of Mexico that is reason enough.

So i take it you would be ok if they wanted that ?

Well I'm not Mexican I'm RUSSIAN but if I was Mexican and my people were being abused and attacked by the US government and American Nationalists and if THE US government adopted abunch of anti Hispanic laws that took away certain parts of our language and culture that weren't a problem the last 150 years, then damn rights I would be OK with it.

The Wagner Insurrection Story was probably some kind of Russian false flag operation, straight out of the Sun Tzu handbook: "When you are weak, make the the enemy believe that you're strong. When you're strong, make your enemy believe that you're weak."

It may have begun as a legitimate ruffling of feathers between Prigozhin and Putin, but I think it was settled very quickly and the entire rest of the narrative was a ruse and sleight of hand for some other objective that Russia hopes they can reach while the West's attention is diverted. Or maybe not. I wouldn't be surprised though if that was part of the plan.

Now, of course, if this was a psyop - whether or not Russia had achieved its aims, or if any such psyop would have even a been good idea to begin with - are other questions entirely. If it was to lull the West and Ukraine into popping the champagne bottles over the possibility that Putin's ouster by Wagner troops was imminent - only for that possibility to be abruptly removed at what seemed to be the "last minute" - then I guess it would have, if nothing else, achieved those aims.

Just seen a Russian on TV saying by positioning Prighozin in Belarus, Wagner can now start their own second front against Ukraine from the north. The movement of tactical nukes onto Ukraine was all part of this plan as a backup.

a reply to: andy06shake

You have the MSM saying Putin is under pressure, Belarus stopped and brokered a resolve to the threat to Putin's power. But the narrative that we have been following shows that they are just reading a prepared script that is out of date in this fast-moving tale of events. I doubt whether a Russian general would be faked by the main players in the information game so I would say it's a fact. Putin has just weeded out some traitors and has knackered the plan to destabilize his position. Prighozin never threatened Putin in any of his rants.