FSB Starts criminal proceedings against Prigozhin for "the Organization of Armed Insurrection"

a reply to: kwakakev

He has 30K troop die under his command fighting for Russia.

So?
You think that means Putin won't get rid of him for some reason?

a reply to: Freeborn

Hi Freeborn,

Some pure speculation on my part--

* Wagner, in some form, continues to exist and operate in Africa, although probably under control of someone other than Prigo.

* Wagner in Russia splits into parts. Some go under MoD, others join Prigo in exile. A lot will depend on if Prigo can access funds to support a PMC on his own.

* Russian military may withdraw some forces from the front line to act as reserve forces for internal security of Putin's regime. Putin has got to understand that someone else may also attempt a rush on the Kremlin.

* One or more oligarchs meet untimely ends in an attempt to shore up Putin's control.

* Putin may use this event to delay the next presidential elections, claiming that Russia has an internal emergency.

Cheers

a reply to: SovietReunion



It could be argued as soon as he started telling porkies about troops, armour, and equipment built-up's on the border of Ukraine being nothing more than mere military exercises, then going on to invade the place and fail on day 3 of his ""special military operation"" that his credibility went out the window both on the world stage and back home in Russia.

a reply to: Freeborn

You think that means Putin won't get rid of him for some reason?

Mr P has earned respect for what he has done for Russia since this Ukraine thing kicked off. Actions speak louder than words. Maybe if he tried to steal some nukes he would get an airstrike. Otherwise not surprised if he could still get on the phone to Putin if something comes up.

Did Wagner get the missing $6 Billion, the road trip to Moscow was to give Putin his cut. Maybe there was some descent and low moral in the ranks, a bit of confusion in how Wagner worked with the Russian Military.

a reply to: kwakakev

Did Wagner get the missing $6 Billion, the road trip to Moscow was to give Putin his cut.

Think the FSB raided Prigozhin's Wagner HQ in St Petersburg and found £38 million stuffed in a van and two buses a couple of days ago.

a reply to: kwakakev

Putin has amassed a personal fortune of between 400 and 600 billion dollars during his reign over Russia - all on a salary of around $100,000 per year.
Do you honestly think he's motivated by a cut of $6billion at this stage of his life?
I suspect he's driven more by his need for a legacy and a Great epithet than anything else.

a reply to: Freeborn

Point is, this 6 billion was not sent as cash, it's an accounting exercise for the value of military equipment sent.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

I know mate.
There's people on here who believe we are literally sending pallets of cash to Ukraine and that Zelensky and his gang are creaming millions off before going shopping at Bombs'R'Us & related outlets.

Its Aid to the value of, a simple concept.

a reply to: kwakakev

It's not missing and it's not cash.

a reply to: Freeborn

Sad, but true. Probably Tanks'R'Us and [email protected], too.

I don't know where he is now, but if I was Prigo...I would be reluctant to go into exile in Belarus, since he'd probably be signing his own death warrant, if he did.

I would hang-out...hiding somewhere in Russia and wait to see how things play-out in the Putin camp.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Oldcarpy2

I know mate.
There's people on here who believe we are literally sending pallets of cash to Ukraine and that Zelensky and his gang are creaming millions off before going shopping at Bombs'R'Us & related outlets.

Its Aid to the value of, a simple concept.

Respectfully even Ukraine is investigating the corruption and graft in Ukraine based on military and financial aid. Scroll through the link there are loads of ways to embezzle and siphon off funds.

There is no need for pallets of cash especially when Uncle Sam is writing checks. Pallets of cash are in reference to what did actually happen in previous international conflicts.

Who knows LOL Prighozin's wife could have just received a huge contract for her chocolate factory.

Do I think the US handed Prigozhin 6.2 Billion no I don't, but I do get all the speculation because nobody has figured out what that was all about on Saturday. Nor did I see anybody here on ATS point to that faux coup as even remotely possibly occurring. Thus any and all speculation is warranted, because it's absolutely crazy to think Prigozhin, felt threatened enough to make a move on Moscow. So what was the motive?

Not to mention it does sound like something the US would do.

kyivindependent.com...

Ukrainska Pravda: State arms brokers failed to fulfill defense contracts worth $242 million amid war
Four state-owned enterprises tasked with procuring arms for the military after the full-scale invasion failed to deliver Hr 8.9 billion ($242 million) worth of weapons and ammo after receiving the money, Ukrainska Pravda found.

Citing the court registry, the outlet reported that Ukraine’s Defense Ministry filed at least 30 lawsuits against state companies responsible for buying arms and ammunition for the military.

These include Defense Procurement Agency, Ukrspetsexport and Progress, and Spetstechnoexport, supervised by the Defense Ministry.

For example, Progress got Hr 1.3 billion ($35 million) to buy 122-millimeter rounds for the Grad unguided rocket artillery system in May 2022, Ukrainska Pravda reported citing its sources.

Progress has never delivered on this promise. It also failed to procure Humvees for the military despite being given the money to do so.

The Defense Ministry’s claims against Progress add up to Hr 2.6 billion ($70.7 million).

Hello everyone -I think we should read the opposite in Russia.
1. Putin was not informed about the upcoming campaign of Prigo..
2. Prigozhin received information about the upcoming military coup in the Kremlin - the purpose of which was a sharp change in policy towards Ukraine -this means the overthrow of Putin.
3. Wagner went to save the existing ideals, having allies in the general staff.
4. Lukashenko informed Prigozhin that Putin is now aware of the coup and is taking measures.
5. Wagner stopped.
6. Shoigu disappeared from the radar, and the ostentatious performance, as if nothing had happened, is rather a distraction from the events that are taking place in the Kremlin.
I think the situation is uncertain now, based on the reaction of the media.
Prigozhin's approach and attention to him concealed actions within the government.
Everyone can see how measures are changing with regard to Wagner - execute or pardon.
But this is my personal opinion and it may be wrong.
Sorry for the English.

a reply to: kirass

Nothing wrong with your English I assure you.

Thank you for your insight from Moscow itself, its much appreciated.

Is there still strong support for Putin and the war in Ukraine in Moscow and Russia?
Its hard to tell over here in the UK, a lot of propaganda coming from both sides.

Who do you think might replace Putin if he were to go and what do you think that might mean for the war and future relations with NATO/EU etc.

I understand they may be difficult questions for you to answer but just curious for your own personal take on things.

Freeborn, Thanks for the rating.
To begin with, Putin is not a hero in this situation - he is acting and a man in plain sight.
He united bandits and security forces, brought up loyalty and probably at some stage loosened his grip, which allowed him to get serious disagreements in his environment.
After all, every Russian is somehow connected with Ukraine, and Stalin at one time sent a huge number of Ukrainians to Siberia.
But Putin's cabinet still owns the situation and now they will be more attentive to the control of mercenaries.
Of course, the government will gradually eat Prigozhin - but it is the world practice of kings to destroy loyal people from time to time, so that others would be afraid.
I think it's too early to talk about replacing the president, but this practice is usually a surprise even among the top echelons.
What I see now for possible candidates, if something goes wrong, is Sobyanin and Shoigu.
We must take into account the fact that if there are nuclear weapons at all, then this is not what we saw on Bikini or in Nagasaki.This weapon will turn Moscow into dust with a single warhead.
And after the exchange of blows, the remaining living will envy the dead.
So the desperation of our president may cost lives on the planet.
I will say again that this is my point of view and may be erroneous.

a reply to: kirass

Outside Russia its generally portrayed that Putin, his supporters and the Oligarchs have a vice like grip on things inside Russia.
Any dissent or questioning the official line or the corruption is severely dealt with.
My take on things is that these people want to take Russia back to a Soviet like autocracy and that Putin is now driven by his dreams of a Great legacy and a Greater Russia. He tries to achieve that by appealing to the national spirit of the Russian people.

I don't think Russia has been under any sort of realistic threat from 'The West' since the fall of communism.
We definitely both could and should have done more to help the Russian people in the aftermath, lets hope its a lesson we've learnt.

There is no enmity towards ordinary, everyday Russians, people just want to see an end to this needless and bloody war.

I can't see that happening as long as Putin is in power.
Would Shoigu or Sobyanin be more amenable to a cessation of hostilities and approach any negotiations more openly than Putin or would they be more hawkish?

None of us want any kind of war, a nuclear exchange would be absolute madness.

a reply to: Freeborn

I agree with you. People are mostly peaceful creatures
But for some reason, all the time a handful decide the fate of millions.

One ongoing consequence of this mutiny or possible coup is the purging of various high-up Russian generals as well as some lower officers, including colonels. Can't see how this purge of the Russian officer corps will help with Russia's war efforts anymore than the purge in 1939 did for the Soviet Union. The difference is that this purge is happening during a war, whereas the earlier purge occurred a few years earlier, which allowed for some mitigation of the problems caused by it.

No doubt additional security measures for the military to stop further mutinies will just cause it to become even more side-tracked and less effective at fighting the war in Ukraine.

The way Russia had to mobilize its military academy cadets to create a force to block the Wagner push on Moscow reminds me of how the Confederacy, during its dying days, had to mobilize young military academy cadets in an attempt to fend off Sherman's march.

Couldn't happen to a nicer terrorist state.

"Vladmir's Putin's 'General Armageddon' (General Sergey Surovikin) is suspected dead after the military leader disappeared for two weeks and recently missed his wife's birthday party."

source: radaronline.com...

www.msn.com...