California girl sues doctors over breast removal gender-affirmation surgery at 13

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: linda72

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: quintessentone

Isn't quintessentone supposed to trust the experts? Wouldn't they have been the ones to recommend a psychological consult as the experts over the parents?

Depends on the experts-

Was this girl a suicide risk? Simple question.

Well, we can sure bet She is now!!!

Smh........

If I got my balls chopped off and Shot up estrogen as an 11 year old boy I'd wanna kill myself that's for damn sure....

Simple concept.

A bizarre statement like that used to be common sense that went without saying....

Not in this "brave" clown world huh?

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: linda72

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: linda72

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: quintessentone

Isn't quintessentone supposed to trust the experts? Wouldn't they have been the ones to recommend a psychological consult as the experts over the parents?

Depends on the experts-

Was this girl a suicide risk? Simple question.

why don't you read the article I have linked?

Why don't you define this sentence:

"Layla was a severely troubled 11-year-old when she self-diagnosed herself as suffering from gender dysphoria."

What does severely troubled mean to you?

Probably confused and struggling into adolescence through puberty?

Like normal life?

You don't add radically mind altering drugs and literal irrereversable mutilation to the poor child's mind.

Turning them into a living lie..

I really can't believe there are people stupid enough to speak in favor of this demented practice.

originally posted by: quintessentone

Layla was a severely troubled 11-year-old when she self-diagnosed herself as suffering from gender dysphoria. Her mother took her to doctors who recommended testosterone and a mastectomy after just two face-to-face consultations lasting 30 and 75 minutes. The lawsuit alleges that the doctors presented Layla’s parents with the false dilemma: “would they rather have a live son, or a dead daughter?”

Was she diagnosed by psychologists as a suicide risk?

We can't know. Her medical records are private, and Kaiser Permamente can't reveal their contents to the public simply to make their case in the media and the court of public opinion.

Layla was a severely troubled 11-year-old when she self-diagnosed herself as suffering from gender dysphoria.

What a loaded statement! Okay, so Layla self-diagnosed her own "gender dysphoria", according to the source. Who diagnoses her as "severely troubled"? Was she cutting herself? Was she trying to cut her own breasts off?

Maybe we'll find out, maybe not. In the meantime, this is great fodder for the anti-trans mob to use as an excuse to take medical access away from kids, forcing some to detransition because someone severely troubled is troubled.

Parent's rights! Yeah!

a reply to: Sookiechacha

with respect and without starting a Sh*t throwing contest do you really think Sookie that people are trying to restrict this child from having proper medical care ?

Perhaps the child needed Psychological care not Body transformation ?

a reply to: asabuvsobelow

with respect and without starting a Sh*t throwing contest do you really think Sookie that people are trying to restrict this child from having proper medical care ?

Not this child. They're using this child as an example why other children should be denied access to medical care. The implications are the parents nor the doctors or their insurance carriers can be trusted. So, the suggestion is, the government should just make it illegal for everyone.

Perhaps the child needed Psychological care not Body transformation ?

Perhaps. But that will be for the courts to decide, who will hear both sides of this issue, not the court of pubic opinion, who have only heard biased accounts, motivated by a financial award or settlement from a big health care carrier, Kaiser Permanente.

originally posted by: quintessentone

Exactly, then Layla's family doctor, the first set of psychologists, and the mother will all blamed because the first three set of doctors at the hospital refused treatment to Layla, but Layla with her mother's insistence and the file folders full of psychological proof of self-harm is what and who pushed for the transition. But, hey, one never knows how a jury will decide.

Well, it seems they were all wrong now, doesn't it, since she is coming out as an adult saying how did you let me do this? We don't trust a kid with anything because we know their minds and bodies are in total chaos for their first two decades or so. As they hit their later teens we slowly give them more freedoms and responsibilities.

This always takes me back to someone with xenomelia who wants to take out their eyes or cut off their legs. My daughter is depressed so let's just cut off her legs as she wishes us to do.

It is obvious this girl, a woman now, has a Pandora's Box of issues, maybe if they focused on the root causes more than just treating the symptoms she would be in a better place.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Not this child. They're using this child as an example why other children should be denied access to medical care. The implications are the parents nor the doctors or their insurance carriers can be trusted. So, the suggestion is, the government should just make it illegal for everyone.

Yes this particular case is being made an example of But that does not mean this case is unique , Cases like this are disturbingly common . The Government should keep their nose out of this in general it's none of the Governments business what a Child does to their body , That being said your talking about ' Body Transformation surgery ' like it's just a trip to the pediatrician that every child should have access to.

No what it is quite simply is Plastic Surgery and Plastic Surgery is cosmetic it is not something the child needs to save their life .

Perhaps. But that will be for the courts to decide, who will hear both sides of this issue, not the court of pubic opinion, who have only heard biased accounts, motivated by a financial award or settlement from a big health care carrier, Kaiser Permanente.

Why should the courts be involved in something like this in the first place ? What ever Psychopathic doctor made the decision to chop this little girl up is the problem along with the Parents .

The Child is innocent and that is the root of all of this , taking innocent children and thinking they can make massive life altering decisions like 'Gender reassignment surgery ' .

Children cant make those kind of decisions and until we realize that things like this are going to keep happening .

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: quintessentone

Exactly, then Layla's family doctor, the first set of psychologists, and the mother will all blamed because the first three set of doctors at the hospital refused treatment to Layla, but Layla with her mother's insistence and the file folders full of psychological proof of self-harm is what and who pushed for the transition. But, hey, one never knows how a jury will decide.

Well, it seems they were all wrong now, doesn't it, since she is coming out as an adult saying how did you let me do this? We don't trust a kid with anything because we know their minds and bodies are in total chaos for their first two decades or so. As they hit their later teens we slowly give them more freedoms and responsibilities.

This always takes me back to someone with xenomelia who wants to take out their eyes or cut off their legs. My daughter is depressed so let's just cut off her legs as she wishes us to do.

It is obvious this girl, a woman now, has a Pandora's Box of issues, maybe if they focused on the root causes more than just treating the symptoms she would be in a better place.

Kayla is 18 years old, adult? - not quite cooked yet IMO and she may still have psychological issues that are still not properly identified and it may be that they never were identified.

The parents knew when Kayla was 6 years old that she was experiencing psychological issues, so I wonder what was in Kayla's medical files before they went to the Kaiser Hospital, where the medical professionals involved with Kayla from age 6 to 11 years, seemed to either been unable to identify the problems or just not took it seriously when Layla, a 6 year old child, told them that she wants to die.

When Kayla was 11, on or around April 26, 2016, Dr. Meridee Loomer saw Kayla and reviewed her file. Dr. Loomer noted that Kayla’s mother had been requesting mental health services beginning in 2011, when Kayla was around 6 years old, due to school issues and because Kayla had written on her papers about wanting to die. Dr. Loomer also noted that there had not been any consistent psychotherapy services for Kayla.

At age 11, around this same time, Kayla heard about transgenderism, did extensive “research” online, and self-diagnosed that she was actually a “boy,” and that transitioning would be the solution to all of her mental health struggles. She informed Dr. Loomer privately at her April 26, 2016, visit that she was a boy and that she preferred to be named “Kyle.”

The poor child seems to have had nobody in her corner and she had to desperately help herself.

It may come to be known that everyone failed her.

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

Yes this particular case is being made an example of But that does not mean this case is unique , Cases like this are disturbingly common .

This whole push for trans, trans is the new popular thing to be, my two-year-old is trans...so on and so forth I'm kind of shocked we are already seeing these kinds of cases. Let's give it another ten years and I bet the floodgates will be open with these scenarios as all these kids in the last few years come of age in 10+ years and say what the hell happened to me?

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Absolutely, the rights of parents and their doctors are systematically being stripped away all under the guise of 'leave the children alone'.

originally posted by: quintessentone

Absolutely, the rights of parents and their doctors are systematically being stripped away all under the guise of 'leave the children alone'.

You also need to look at the other side of this too. We have parents that say their 2 year old is trans, we have hospitals that are willing to do this elective surgery on kids, and we have states that say come to our state and have it done as we will protect you.

I have said this many times... THERE IS NO RUSH HERE! We have also seen if done before puberty it makes matters worst, so in the end waiting until a person is an adult is not going to change the outcome one bit.

The "leave children alone" has to do with not sexualizing kids with adult situations. Once again there is no rush here. Humans have done rather well over a million years, but now you and others seem there is this big need to push everything as early as possible. Why is that?

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: quintessentone

Absolutely, the rights of parents and their doctors are systematically being stripped away all under the guise of 'leave the children alone'.

You also need to look at the other side of this too. We have parents that say their 2 year old is trans, we have hospitals that are willing to do this elective surgery on kids, and we have states that say come to our state and have it done as we will protect you.

Some parents are just stupid and should never have had children in the first place, there's that, and those hospitals have strict rules regarding transgender surgeries, look it up some time. States that say they will protect you are feeding you what you want to hear. Protections should not involve taking away parents and their doctor's rights. Protections can come under new laws protecting children, simple enough.

I have said this many times... THERE IS NO RUSH HERE! We have also seen if done before puberty it makes matters worst, so in the end waiting until a person is an adult is not going to change the outcome one bit.

The "leave children alone" has to do with not sexualizing kids with adult situations. Once again there is no rush here. Humans have done rather well over a million years, but now you and others seem there is this big need to push everything as early as possible. Why is that?

The 'leave children alone' is being used as a weapon against whatever intolerance or bias is the going fear by some people.

Sexualization has always been a fact of life, it's just some forms of sexualization of children seems to be okay with some people.

First World countries only became concerned in the past two decades that exposure to sexualized images and media, separate from reports of pedophilia, may harm children. Instrumental to this paradigm shift is a widespread recognition of how “sexualization” is distinct from “sexual abuse.” While the occurrence of the latter can certainly perpetuate and normalize the former, sexualization as defined by the American Psychological Association is “the inappropriate imposition of sexuality… through objectification, overvaluing or emphasizing appearance and/or sexual behavior,” regardless of the presence of physical sexual assault. As the number of sexual incidents involving children grew alongside popularized sexual imagery, the quiet taboo against voicing detrimental effects of sexualization began to melt under the burning scrutiny of researchers, feminists, and politicians.

Sexualization has expanded beyond a simplistic view of precociousness. As described in the Economist, the two forms of sexualization are both “direct” and “indirect.” The former encompasses advertisements and programming that target and sell commodities to children, particularly girls. Such items include Bratz Baby Dolls, which target six-year-olds with fishnet stocking and miniskirts, and padded bras on bikinis sold for seven-year-olds, raising national controversy on the dangers of encouraging females to portray their identities using sexual items from a young age.

The indirect form of sexualization is more subtle and harder to quantify. There is an under-the-radar fear that the globalization of technology enables children to access pornographic content. Children and teenagers are the biggest consumers of online media today, and in some countries such as the United Kingdom, over half of the teenage population has encountered pornography on the web. The increase in media sexualization is also coupled with a reversal in the roles of victims and perpetrators; children find themselves on both sides of the spectrum, often at the hands of their peers.

hir.harvard.edu...

Stop fooling yourselves.

Perhaps the best model, therefore, is practiced in countries where the focus is on informed, positivity-primed sexual education. In countries like the Netherlands and Denmark, sexual education is not restricted to the abstinence-based or pitfall-prone attitude of its counterparts in North America.

Eye opener.

www.brainzmagazine.com...

originally posted by: quintessentone

The 'leave children alone' is being used as a weapon against whatever intolerance or bias is the going fear by some people.

I would say it is more of a school issue when schools overstep their bounds and leave the parents out of the decision-making process. We all know the education system is made up of the smartest people in the world that know what is best for each of us, if you do not believe that then just ask them...

What do you call it when a parent can not read a book at their 5th-grade library to the open school board because it is too sexually graphic? You seem to want to play the hyperbolic game, I just want to be reasonable.

Sexualization has always been a fact of life, it's just some forms of sexualization of children seems to be okay with some people.

I and others already said over and over there are degrees to what information we should provide our children based on their age and maturity. What is 100% proper for a 16-year-old is most likely not for an 8-year-old, can you at least agree to that?

a reply to: asabuvsobelow

Cases like this are disturbingly common .

No it's not. It's incredibly rare.

The Government should keep their nose out of this in general it's none of the Governments business what a Child does to their body

I don't agree with this statement. Besides, it's not about what a child does to their body, this case is about what her parents, doctors and Kaiser Permanente did to her when she was 15 years old.

Children cant make those kind of decisions and until we realize that things like this are going to keep happening .

Are you suggesting that you believe this girl ordered to doctors her do this mastectomy, and Kaiser okayed it based on this girl's orders alone?

That being said your talking about ' Body Transformation surgery ' like it's just a trip to the pediatrician that every child should have access to.

No, I am not. I'm talking mostly about hormone therapy and puberty blockers. That's what states are targeting. States won't do transition surgery on minors without parental concent, unless they have some other underlying problem, not even in California. I have no idea why doctors thought giving this girl a mastectomy was a good idea, but I'm sure Kaiser lawyers will present their case. Until then, we just don't know.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Not this child. They're using this child as an example why other children should be denied access to medical care. The implications are the parents nor the doctors or their insurance carriers can be trusted. So, the suggestion is, the government should just make it illegal for everyone.

If "medical care" means chopping off body parts of minors, they yes, that kind of medical care should not be available.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: quintessentone

The 'leave children alone' is being used as a weapon against whatever intolerance or bias is the going fear by some people.

I would say it is more of a school issue when schools overstep their bounds and leave the parents out of the decision-making process. We all know the education system is made up of the smartest people in the world that know what is best for each of us, if you do not believe that then just ask them...

What do you call it when a parent can not read a book at their 5th-grade library to the open school board because it is too sexually graphic? You seem to want to play the hyperbolic game, I just want to be reasonable.

Sexualization has always been a fact of life, it's just some forms of sexualization of children seems to be okay with some people.

I and others already said over and over there are degrees to what information we should provide our children based on their age and maturity. What is 100% proper for a 16-year-old is most likely not for an 8-year-old, can you at least agree to that?

Post an example of a 5th grade book that was found in the school library that, what was it? one parent?, found inappropriate for all the children at that school. Before we discuss who is hyperbolic, post the 5th grade library book, then we can select the term that fits best.

You do know any book in a middle school library where the advisory states that it is not advisable for children under a certain age to read it, all the students need to do is get their parent's permission?

So, you see not all students fall under the same umbrella of mental and physical development in middle school, and who knows best about their child's abilities and capabilities with their help, that's right, the parents.

You didn't comment on the sexualization of little girls in Disney, advertising and social media, I wonder why.

Banning Harry Potter.

boards.straightdope.com...

a reply to: Sookiechacha

From what I've read from the court document the mother and Kayla were insistent and pushing for the transition surgery as they seemed to have believed or seemed to be very positive that the surgery was the only way for Kayla to progress and/or become happy.

I am not sure if Kayla did indeed suffer from bi-polar and why none of the doctors (and there were many along the way) diagnosed her with bi-polar, but if she did and does have it then the doctors and hospital will have some explaining to do.

originally posted by: quintessentone

Post an example of a 5th grade book that was found in the school library that, what was it? one parent?, found inappropriate for all the children at that school. Before we discuss who is hyperbolic, post the 5th grade library book, then we can select the term that fits best.

This one is 4th grade...

a reply to: Xtrozero

He's right, it's up to the parents to decide what's available for their children and all the parents have to do is give their children written permission to take out the types of books the parents deem age appropriate for their children. It's not up to him to decide what is immoral or moral.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

I'm talking mostly about hormone therapy and puberty blockers

Its interesting that for years the left held up the nordic countries as the reason we should practice gender affirming care, but now that even nordic countries are saying their medical studies are showing no actual help to more negative effects of puberty blockers the left likes to just pretend its safe nothing to worry about.