California girl sues doctors over breast removal gender-affirmation surgery at 13

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Sookiechacha

I'm talking mostly about hormone therapy and puberty blockers

Its interesting that for years the left held up the nordic countries as the reason we should practice gender affirming care, but now that even nordic countries are saying their medical studies are showing no actual help to more negative effects of puberty blockers the left likes to just pretend its safe nothing to worry about.

There could be many reasons why some people experience negative effects after transitioning and there are newer studies why people have better well being after transitioning.

It could also be that after transitioning the person may be without the same psychological help they had during the transitioning process so they have to deal with growing LGBTQ negativity in people on their own. I also read where the cost of continuing their transitioning can become prohibitive, in these cases isn't depression or worse to be expected?

Also with more people transitioning, there will obviously be more people that regret it for their own reasons and who is to blame? all those that led them down the transitioning path? So with the uptick of court cases it's no wonder the gender dysphoria hospitals and doctors are backing off.

2022 article - Stanford

Transgender adults who started gender-affirming hormone therapy as teens had better mental health than those who waited until adulthood or wanted the treatment but never received it, a Stanford-led study found.

med.stanford.edu...#:~:text=The%20new%20study%20found%20that,who%20 started%20hormones%20in%20adulthood.

originally posted by: quintessentone

He's right, it's up to the parents to decide what's available for their children and all the parents have to do is give their children written permission to take out the types of books the parents deem age appropriate for their children. It's not up to him to decide what is immoral or moral.

No limit on what is in the library? There are no other avenues out there to support children. You don't think that book would be openly available? Is there anything you deem inappropriate for different age groups? How about a teacher providing the same thing in their class...where is the parent approval process for that? I think you are missing the point in a lot of parents are seeing their kids being exposed to age-restricted material with no knowledge of theirs. We also need to understand that this material can be classified as child sexual abuse under the law.

originally posted by: quintessentone

Also with more people transitioning, there will obviously be more people that regret it for their own reasons and who is to blame? all those that led them down the transitioning path? So with the uptick of court cases it's no wonder the gender dysphoria hospitals and doctors are backing off.

Who cares what they do if legal age.... We are talking about adults allowing kids to transition, never having kids of their own, and possibly destroying any means to a normal sex life before even knowing what that might mean.

Popular liberal crap logic and an agenda behind exposing children to sex of all kinds.

Anyone supporting it, allowing it and rationalizing it is a weak willed individual devoid of morals.

Their is an evil agenda behind exposing your children to hyper sexual ideas. Notice how hard they fight against you when you oppose it.

a reply to: quintessentone

Finland, Sweden and Norway led the charge on this stuff and all three are pumping the breaks pointing at new studies that are finally showing long term effects and they have effectively banned gender affirming care in all but the most extreme cases or in research settings.

But yea now the US knows better than europe.

You know if you gave speed and coke to teenage girls to control their weight, I'm sure you would could get a study showing the girls were happy with speed and coke. I bet it might stop suicide and depressions too. But what about long-term?

She was given two sessions of therapy - absolutely not enough - a 11 year old can't diagnosis themselves.

I don't see a study in which teenagers were given support and therapy without physical alterations compared to teenagers who had support and therapy with physical alterations.

Sure if you feel that you are the wrong sex, the group who received no care would probably have more emotional problems than the group who had automatic counseling.

But maybe, people don't need to change their bodies in teen years to be emotionally healthy.

originally posted by: Daughter2

She was given two sessions of therapy - absolutely not enough - a 11 year old can't diagnosis themselves.

It should be many years with a therapist that isn't WOKE on trans and just does their job correctly. The girl is 18 now and in 5 years finally saw on her own it was wrong and now it is too late to go back.

originally posted by: quintessentone
Isn't it amazing how facts can change a desired narrative?

For those who can't be bothered to read the study, there is a low prevalence of regret after gender-affirmation surgery.

Regret after Gender-affirmation Surgery: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis of Prevalence

journals.lww.com...

So you believe that's a legit "study" ? Because there is no shortage of people including parents and un-woke doctors and nurses who say there is indeed a lot of regret after. Up to and including the worst kind of thing happening.

It is also a FACT that young people including small kids are being pressured into scenarios they would not have taken any part in doing if they hadn't been constantly coerced into it.

But you will deny these things all because you wish to promote a different perspective based on your own personal feelings..

That is quite shameful.

After all, suing somebody is how one becomes rich in America nowadays is it not? Gender identity is a very real phenomena that has been around for recorded history. As society evolves with our new found access to information i have found the loudest opponents towards gender identity have rigid religious views which will suggest that God makes mistakes if gender identity is accepted. Split personalities were once thought to be fantastical in much of the same fashion however, gender identity is susceptible to the same fanatisicm with which we treat everything else as humans. It is that fanatisicm and trendy architecture this poor child, like so many others fell victim to, often perpetuated by the roar of social media?

originally posted by: FishsticksAndKetchup
After all, suing somebody is how one becomes rich in America nowadays is it not? Gender identity is a very real phenomena

How cynical.

I think people are beginning to realise that the trans lobby is a child grooming and mutilation cult, where medical intervention has been unconstrained by ethics and common sense. I don't doubt that in future years, people who have been abused by so-called "experts" as vulnerable children, will be suing for harm done. Not just in the US, but across the Western world, where this cult has taken hold.

originally posted by: FishsticksAndKetchup
After all, suing somebody is how one becomes rich in America nowadays is it not? Gender identity is a very real phenomena that has been around for recorded history. As society evolves with our new found access to information i have found the loudest opponents towards gender identity have rigid religious views which will suggest that God makes mistakes if gender identity is accepted. Split personalities were once thought to be fantastical in much of the same fashion however, gender identity is susceptible to the same fanatisicm with which we treat everything else as humans. It is that fanatisicm and trendy architecture this poor child, like so many others fell victim to, often perpetuated by the roar of social media?

Sometimes people are just tired of having this shoved in their faces, has sweet f all to do with religion. The browbeating over pronouns and neo pronouns.. and how about leaving the children out of it.

Nobody gave a f about this up until a few years ago, then it became all and everything.
Enough already!!

a reply to: vonclod Controlling the narrative is as old as anything else we debate these days. I agree with you in many ways, particularly with the shoving it in our faces part. I was commenting more towards the lawsuit aspect of it. I for one believe gender identity to be real but more rare than advertised. Religion still has a stronghold on the human psyche, after all, it was the dominant operating system for the past 2000 years at least? Its the trendiness which leaves the already confused in a more vunerable state which was more the point i was trying to convey but can completely agree with your comment as well👍

originally posted by: FishsticksAndKetchup
a reply to: vonclod Controlling the narrative is as old as anything else we debate these days. I agree with you in many ways, particularly with the shoving it in our faces part. I was commenting more towards the lawsuit aspect of it. I for one believe gender identity to be real but more rare than advertised. Religion still has a stronghold on the human psyche, after all, it was the dominant operating system for the past 2000 years at least? Its the trendiness which leaves the already confused in a more vunerable state which was more the point i was trying to convey but can completely agree with your comment as well👍

I can't argue that there is for some a religious component too, so your point has some validity. I guess I'm just relating most people I know that are absolutely sick and tired of this, are not religious.

a reply to: vonclod

Remember when it was "We just want to be able to marry who we want to marry... that's it."
I think even a large part of the LGB groups are starting to say this is BS.

originally posted by: Waska
a reply to: vonclod

Remember when it was "We just want to be able to marry who we want to marry... that's it."
I think even a large part of the LGB groups are starting to say this is BS.

For sure many are turning their backs on this, my nephew is gay, he wants absolutely nothing to do with these people.

One of my buds works for the school board, even teachers are rumbling it's gone too far, and the pendulum is starting to swing back.

While I absolutely agree against gender transition surgery on minors, we can't throw out the baby with the bathwater when it comes to some gender-affirming care actually benefiting minors' well being as existing studies and, I am sure, upcoming studies from the experts in the field will confirm and it is unconstitutional to ban all gender-affirming care for trans youth, so says an Arkansas judge.

Judge Moody's ruling said that there is evidence showing that gender-affirming care for trans youth improves their mental health and the well-being of patients. He said testimony from well-credentialed experts and the doctors that the plaintiffs called showed that.

So Moody said the law violates the First, the Fifth and the 14th Amendments. He agreed with the ACLU's arguments that the First Amendment protects doctors' right to refer patients to other providers for gender-affirming care. The judge said the law also violates rights to due process and equal protection by taking away parents' rights to make decisions about their kids' health care and that it discriminates against minors based on their sex since the law wouldn't prohibit minors from accessing gender-affirming care so long as it aligns with their sex assigned at birth.

www.npr.org...#:~:text=MARY%20LOUISE%20KELL Y%2C%20HOST%3A,similar%20laws%20on%20the%20books.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Daughter2

She was given two sessions of therapy - absolutely not enough - a 11 year old can't diagnosis themselves.

It should be many years with a therapist that isn't WOKE on trans and just does their job correctly. The girl is 18 now and in 5 years finally saw on her own it was wrong and now it is too late to go back.

Imagine how many other girls n boys have fallen victims of this ideology supported by the pharmaceutical industry- it's a lucrative business to 'transition' boys n girls - men n women- the reality shows you can't transition- it's physically impossible- they try to treat mental health issues with 'puberty blockers' - 'cross sex hormones' n surgery- it can lead only to disaster-

Having read a bit more on this, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this will get tossed out and that the doctors did no such thing.

She has, by her own admission, a lot of mental problems and this lawsuit/claim is getting her fame and attention. She diagnoses herself with various conditions (always a red flag) and produces a pretty improbable scenario. Any of you who have had an operation within the past few decades knows that you've got to sign a boatload of consent forms first and they want to run lab tests before doing any sort of operation.

And it's not done for free. Mastectomies require a hospital stay. So if it was true, there would be a big paper trail of medical stuff and a ton of bills. And no, they wouldn't have done this as a test case. Most F-to-M don't actually get the surgery; they use breast binding because it's cheaper and there's no need for surgery.

I think that all they have to do is ask for a physical examination of her and there won't be any scars to prove this happened.

originally posted by: linda72

Imagine how many other girls n boys have fallen victims of this ideology supported by the pharmaceutical industry- it's a lucrative business to 'transition' boys n girls - men n women- the reality shows you can't transition- it's physically impossible- they try to treat mental health issues with 'puberty blockers' - 'cross sex hormones' n surgery- it can lead only to disaster-

It seems that it is a very bad idea to start too early too. In Jazz's case, his parents started him like the age of 3 or so, and by the time they were going to do the surgery his penis was so small that they could not use the skin and so all those future sexual nerve endings were removed and plain skin was used to make the cavity. There is no sexual feeling there and the body continually tries to reject it thinking it is an open wound that needs closing.

If a person waits until their 20s at least there is some chance to use the skin of their matured penis. Personally knowing how surgeries in general go, nerve endings don't recover well, so the point might be moot.