Moderators, are we trying to improve ATS or NOT

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe
I can testify to this!
When I get to the point I feel like "shaking sense" into someone via keyboard, I have to leave....
Still haven't gotten the hang of it though.

originally posted by: Darko
I didn't know that. I just work on the back end stuff, I don't move posts or anything. Do you think we should rename Election 2020 to 2024 or create a new forum for 2024 election stuff? I don't know the posting history there and I take it you're more familiar than I am. What do you think?

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Darko

I can tell you with almost 100 percent certainty that the largest vocal concern here is transparency.

What's going on, what's going to happen, intentions, direction etc.

We obviously are a very inquisitive group and even mostly understanding. So even a little goes a long way.

The site is working better than it has in years and it certainly sounds like you have some ideas in mind.

We'd love to hear em!

This most definitely.... specifically one small question and /or request...

Elections 2024 is on the horizon, everything 2024-related is now getting crammed into the 2020 Elections folder. Yes, I know most of us loathe the saturation of political threads, and I do too, but generally, Political threads end up in the 2020 Election, US Political Madness, or the Mud Pit forums. 2 out of the 3 have negative connotations and the other is only related to 2020 because it looks like 4 years and 330 million people 2024 will have quite literally 2020's Thing 1 and Thing 2 made famous by Dr.Suess, but I digress

Can we get an Elections 2024 folder by next year, if possible?

New forum.

Don't want to confuse the events surrounding the previous election an the attempted coup/overthrow of the US government with the upcoming election, whatever the latter may bring.

Moderators, are we trying to improve ATS or NOT

One thing that would help would be to moderate consistently and fairly.

Might be tough to do, but it's necessary.

I have heard this a lot. Can you elaborate on your concerns?

originally posted by: SirHardHarry

Moderators, are we trying to improve ATS or NOT

One thing that would help would be to moderate consistently and fairly.

Might be tough to do, but it's necessary.

originally posted by: Darko
I have heard this a lot. Can you elaborate on your concerns?

originally posted by: SirHardHarry

Moderators, are we trying to improve ATS or NOT

One thing that would help would be to moderate consistently and fairly.

Might be tough to do, but it's necessary.

Basically, removing some members' posts for certain TC violations but not removing others, even when it's alerted and an identical TC violation.

a reply to: SirHardHarry

Staff actions happen by consensus. This requires a quorum and time for input. Given the severity of the violation it can take a while to reach a decision. Good so far…balance and derived consistency.

But where does it seem unfair. Lack of consensus goes to the member as benefit of the doubt. People decide to “exact revenge themselves rather than Report and don’t respond.

Staff is not and will not be in the habit of defending those that hide behind aprons while provoking others in perceived safety/immunity. And frankly, I have seen many threads just trashed rather than untwist who started what, where and when that more than likely is carried butt hurt from the Mudpit in a tread from six weeks ago.

Another thing that “creates bias” is the bias of the individual looking through a lens that really isn’t up to their eye. Staff do many things in private. You won’t know someone was post banned unless they say so publicly. You don’t know if a person was PB’d for suspected “drunk posting” and was done so to save them from themselves…yet rather than sleep it off gave intricate details of where a thumb could be placed and how with the ever helpful offer to assist with that….How could someone ever be banned by being helpful like that?

Do mods police our own? Absolutely. Not every mod has quit. And no, I won’t say which ones. Not every former mod has remained a member in good standing. And no, won’t say which ones there either.

One other interesting thing…every mod has the right to pass on input due to perceived bias either for or against a member. I can recall one time in particular that was discussed and every active mod had to pass. Until the discussion became does everyone have a problem with how this person posts as to cloud fair judgement? Was a very strange discussion and basically they “got away with things” so they were not “treated unfairly”. Which obviously ended there and then because too toxic for staff actions means too toxic to be left to prey on the membership.

In summery. People get a fair shake and outside observers do not have the whole picture. What more can be said that hasn’t be said before?

originally posted by: Darko
Aaah.. ok if that's what you're asking then no absolutely not it will not go completely political. In fact, I'd personally like to see it go back to it's roots, less political, not really "conspiracy" but let's say... "forbidden truths" at least according to the censorship BIg Tech is implementing. I'd like to see more wikileaks type stuff, twitter files, ET stuff, leaked documents, esoteric stuff etc. etc. I guess if there is anything going on it's that we're trying to make the platform more welcoming for people. Reduce the trolling, rudeness, etc. and just be cool to each other. Here is my philosophy... if I think something is BS, I just ignore it and move on to the next thing. I don't waste my time or energy on it, period.

Here's the thing though. Everyone is working with a different data set so what I might consider BS is simply because I don't have the same data set the other person has. Likewise, my truth may seem like BS to some because they don't have all of the info.

So no, it's not moving towards political. But it is after all a community driven board so it's whatever the users make it out to be. However, I've observed through my own experiences that the energy here is pretty heavy and there were a handful of people just trolling everyone, mods and admins included. So, at some point I'd like to see the people who are reluctant to post (because all of that BS) start posting again. And posting serious articles and experiences, not just a bunch of whining BS (not directed at you or anyone else, just in general).

I'd like to see people walking away from ATS feeling informed and elevated instead of frustrated and never wanting to return. So yea, maybe that's the shift you're all feeling. But it's a positive shift for everyone except for those few who just want to use ATS as their emotional dumping ground and fling crap all over the place.

Many would like this, but it is all but impossible. The trolling and hating on anything that isn't Main Stream simply makes it untenable for tentative posters to post, and those with insight are going to be tentative as they are not part of the established brain trust. The usual suspects wait it seems for any chance to yell "pic or it didn't happen" and then gleefully run off happy they shut the thread down.

There are folks whose entire purpose is to shut down threads to simply say the opposite no matter how stupid or hateful. It's all over the web to be fair. Then, frankly, there is the belief that antagonization = engagement = spirited debate. This belief is utter nonsense.

Reading through old threads, which are missing that theme, are not less interesting, but do require thinking and interacting which I don't think people are capable of to the degree we'd like. You mentioned someone being wanted 200+ times. Why? 5 is enough, the trouble makers are obvious, so why are they protected?

I say this because the favoritism given to the trouble makers is what discourages folks from laying things bare, they feel if they bring a vision, or an insight from a job, or documents they found, they will be marginalized so the trolls can kill another thread. ATS has a "don't feed the trolls" panel, which, oddly, seems to suggest there is no control over them.

Tough spot, not sure there is an answer, but I'd avoid trying to go backwards in thought or actions, the world changed as have people's ability to be civil. Reward those who bring new stuff somehow in someway, discourage the hate as means to and end. Frankly, blocking would be a great feature, if there are folks we know add no useful information, it would be nice to never see them again, if enough folks block them you'll make the weeding out job easier.

Good work on stabilizing the site, it feels much more solid, it feels like someone is again tending to the garden to help it grow.

a reply to: crankyoldman

We have members that have been here 15 or 20 years. You can get a LOT of warnings in that amount of time. Many times a member will be warned, or talked to, and they settle down and stop the behavior. Then five or six months later they'll have a couple posts removed, but settle down again. A member can have a lot of warnings and still be in good standing, when they've been here for a long time.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: crankyoldman

We have members that have been here 15 or 20 years. You can get a LOT of warnings in that amount of time. Many times a member will be warned, or talked to, and they settle down and stop the behavior. Then five or six months later they'll have a couple posts removed, but settle down again. A member can have a lot of warnings and still be in good standing, when they've been here for a long time.

Can concur.....

a reply to: 19Bones79

I'm rather fond of you as well Bones though your politics are only VERGING on astute.

a reply to: Darko

The original post was accidentally erased due to finger malfunction and the instruction sheet posted instead. It was late for me and for some reason my first attempt to edit failed so I just put that up quickly.

Thank you for your attention D. I did however address an issue with another new administrator claiming to be Mrs. Darko in another thread.

I"m not one for PMing and would rather just address issues in public. However I have, in the past, utilized the ''''alert'' button, which now seems to have been deleted when I have found certain posts or threads overly and excessively rude or bogus. A thread I had taken issue with has, now I see, been deleted.

a reply to: Darko

If there's a gofundme started for ATS consider putting a link on there to one of the many awesome OPs that were written over the years.


A lot of longtime members here can easily come up with a top 10 to choose from.

I would recommend looking into a user named ASTRO, but there are many more.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Thank you Terry.


The universe has regained some balance once more.

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: Darko

If there's a gofundme started for ATS consider putting a link on there to one of the many awesome OPs that were written over the years.


A lot of longtime members here can easily come up with a top 10 to choose from.

I would recommend looking into a user named ASTRO, but there are many more.

That was a wild ride wasn't it. I think there was also a discussion thread about it too.

a reply to: Ahabstar

Not exactly what I was talking about.

a reply to: crankyoldman



“Pic or it didn’t happen.” Became one of the mottos around ATS that bled over to a few other sites. Carried like beggars lice.

I have to agree with you. It is not unusual to see a thread die because it appeared to be the goal to shut it down because some members did not agree with the OP. Fly by attacks happen often, and even if the posts are removed, you end up with a lot of removed post tombstones, and bad blood in the air.

Sometimes it is just best to walk away from a thread. You don’t want to encourage or escalate rude or hateful posting. And you don’t want to waste your time posting when you know your post will either be ignored or open you up for attack.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: crankyoldman



“Pic or it didn’t happen.” Became one of the mottos around ATS that bled over to a few other sites. Carried like beggars lice.

I have to agree with you. It is not unusual to see a thread die because it appeared to be the goal to shut it down because some members did not agree with the OP. Fly by attacks happen often, and even if the posts are removed, you end up with a lot of removed post tombstones, and bad blood in the air.

Sometimes it is just best to walk away from a thread. You don’t want to encourage or escalate rude or hateful posting. And you don’t want to waste your time posting when you know your post will either be ignored or open you up for attack.

This is well said ^^^. The "yes it is, no it isn't" polarity punch out is not "spirited debate" is just noise.

People often start esoteric threads with pleas not to attack, or worse, apologizing for their post. You are correct, either by design or some strange act of god, it seems threads are attacked to die, leaving some great folks exiting and never posting - maybe that's the point I don't know.

Darko says, admirably, I'd like to see people walking away from ATS feeling informed and elevated instead of frustrated and never wanting to return.. Indulging in the "yes it is, no it isn't" pattern for 10 more years will inform no one, in fact, it will drive those with something to say away entirely, as they grow past the "shut up, you think all of us are, but you are..." stuff.

Do people lurk to read the hater posts? What are the lurkers reading and responding to, the fights?

I belong to a discord group, they have a block feature. I gain nothing from the folks who have a mental illness posting pattern and keep posting the same exact thing over and over, hell I can read the original post and know how they will reply, so I simply block the one's that teach me nothing and engage with the rest. I engage MORE because of that, not less.

There is very strange concern over "the echo chamber" effect, which isn't a reason to allow for destructive energy. If folks find they all agree, so be it, if folks do not, so be it, but deciding that inherently folks are better off screaming at each other as a way to end the echo chamber fear is beyond strange to me. It's like a disease no one actually has, but everyone fears so the live their lives as though they do have it. If one is in an echo chamber, it's their own prison, their own doing, but one that is super easy to escape.

The world has changed in the last three years, many are no longer interested in the hate, the anger, the rage, but, are looking to learn and connect. And, in fairness, many have only the hate to share, their frustration and rage needs an outlet and random people on the internet are a great outlet for that, so in a way it is a kind of community service to provide "safe spaces" for that.

Very interesting to go back and read old threads, the online persona aspect has altered the reality and the way people engage, yes, from a cranky old man, it was clearly more civil before.

a reply to: StraightFacts

Why do you bring drama by addressing the membership at large rather than asking the moderator that removed your post?

The title asks about what are the mods going to do (as if the onus isn’t shared by the members to not deliberately post outside the guidelines and spirit of the T&C).

Want some insight? Just recently had a member insulting no particular order) the staff, members, site, me and then progressed (in a series of six PM’s written and sent in three minutes total) to explain how the rules didn’t apply for them and demanded to know why I had responded to his previous 4 or 5 PM’s and how dare I deal with someone else at the same time?

So, how do I as a mod make things better? Suspend the posting privileges of those that do not wish to follow the rules until they demonstrate an ability to try to so the membership doesn’t have to suffer them. How about you as a member?

originally posted by: Ahabstar
Want some insight? Just recently had a member insulting no particular order) the staff, members, site, me and then progressed (in a series of six PM’s written and sent in three minutes total) to explain how the rules didn’t apply for them and demanded to know why I had responded to his previous 4 or 5 PM’s and how dare I deal with someone else at the same time?

I only sent three messages.

I think this person might be too new to know to PM the Mods directly to get answers.