Debunking Vaccine Myths RE VAERS

a reply to: TheRedneck

It means most people report more than 1 side effect when filing a report.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Asmodeus3
a reply to: quintessentone

Still no answer as it seems.
I understand you will find it very difficult to argue that Covid-19 has come from SARS-CoV-2, both being virus.

Or that Covid-19 is a chimeric virus...

Prove me wrong with evidence from non-right-wing sources.

It doesn't require any right wing sources.

It sounds like you're confusing a disease condition with the pathogens that cause it.

COVID-19 is the terminology that describes the disease condition caused by the virus. Having COVID is the same type of descriptor as having the flu, it's a disease caused by that genetic line of pathogens. Whether the variants are chimeric is irrelevant to the nomenclature of the disease condition. Having COVID-19 means meeting the clinical definition of the disease.

While professionals colloquially use it interchangeably with the name of the viral pathogens that cause it, there is a distinction they recognize when doing so.

These misunderstandings about basic terminology seem to be widespread among the people quick to imply my decade of professional experience was somehow all a QAnon right-wing indoctrination process.

I don't need any lectures on what Covid-19 is as I've researched it extensively. What my point was, that you obviously missed, was that those people that refute evidenced-based independent peer reviewed science use only right-wing/conservative agenda-driven sources and we are all using data/numbers that are not TRUE/VERIFIABLE. That's all I was pointing out.

It appears you're more interested in continuing your 5 page slapfight than providing a simple clarification of your position.

God forbid anybody try to circumvent more pages of unnecessary back and forth over objective reality. If you understand the distinction I pointed out, rather than deflecting with how well-informed you are, you could simply provide a sentence to show you understand.

Enjoy tapdancing around the topic ad nauseam.

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Asmodeus3
a reply to: quintessentone

Still no answer as it seems.
I understand you will find it very difficult to argue that Covid-19 has come from SARS-CoV-2, both being virus.

Or that Covid-19 is a chimeric virus...

Prove me wrong with evidence from non-right-wing sources.

It doesn't require any right wing sources.

It sounds like you're confusing a disease condition with the pathogens that cause it.

COVID-19 is the terminology that describes the disease condition caused by the virus. Having COVID is the same type of descriptor as having the flu, it's a disease caused by that genetic line of pathogens. Whether the variants are chimeric is irrelevant to the nomenclature of the disease condition. Having COVID-19 means meeting the clinical definition of the disease.

While professionals colloquially use it interchangeably with the name of the viral pathogens that cause it, there is a distinction they recognize when doing so.

These misunderstandings about basic terminology seem to be widespread among the people quick to imply my decade of professional experience was somehow all a QAnon right-wing indoctrination process.

I don't need any lectures on what Covid-19 is as I've researched it extensively. What my point was, that you obviously missed, was that those people that refute evidenced-based independent peer reviewed science use only right-wing/conservative agenda-driven sources and we are all using data/numbers that are not TRUE/VERIFIABLE. That's all I was pointing out.

It appears you're more interested in continuing your 5 page slapfight than providing a simple clarification of your position.

God forbid anybody try to circumvent more pages of unnecessary back and forth over objective reality. If you understand the distinction I pointed out, rather than deflecting with how well-informed you are, you could simply provide a sentence to show you understand.

Enjoy tapdancing around the topic ad nauseam.

The same to you.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Asmodeus3
a reply to: quintessentone

Still no answer as it seems.
I understand you will find it very difficult to argue that Covid-19 has come from SARS-CoV-2, both being virus.

Or that Covid-19 is a chimeric virus...

Prove me wrong with evidence from non-right-wing sources.

It doesn't require any right wing sources.

It sounds like you're confusing a disease condition with the pathogens that cause it.

COVID-19 is the terminology that describes the disease condition caused by the virus. Having COVID is the same type of descriptor as having the flu, it's a disease caused by that genetic line of pathogens. Whether the variants are chimeric is irrelevant to the nomenclature of the disease condition. Having COVID-19 means meeting the clinical definition of the disease.

While professionals colloquially use it interchangeably with the name of the viral pathogens that cause it, there is a distinction they recognize when doing so.

These misunderstandings about basic terminology seem to be widespread among the people quick to imply my decade of professional experience was somehow all a QAnon right-wing indoctrination process.

I don't need any lectures on what Covid-19 is as I've researched it extensively. What my point was, that you obviously missed, was that those people that refute evidenced-based independent peer reviewed science use only right-wing/conservative agenda-driven sources and we are all using data/numbers that are not TRUE/VERIFIABLE. That's all I was pointing out.

I see you are unable to provide any links and any explanations on the following claims.

Covid-19 has come from SARS-CoV-2, both being virus

The genome researchers said Covid-19 is FROM SARS-CoV-2 and merged with another pathogen to become a Chimera, so Covid-19 as a Chimera did indeed come from SARS-CoV-2, what is so difficult to understand about that.

You are now claiming you have done extensive research on what Covid-19 is and you have concluded based on independent non right wing sources that Covid-19 is a virus that has come from another virus SARS-CoV-2. As absurd as it can get it in a few words.

If you can show where is it on the literature we can have a look at. Otherwise you can say I am wrong and have confused my arguments.

Just as before when you have argued that Dr Ladapo claimed causation using VAERS. But nowhere Dr Ladapo has claimed what you have said he claimed. That's another unsubstantiated claim of yours.

So your argument has been upgraded from Covid-19 being a virus coming from SARS-CoV-2, to Covid-19 being a chimeric virus coming from SARS-CoV-2 and another pathogen which you have not identified....

a reply to: Asmodeus3

I see you still won't provide me with non-right-wing sources as to your claims.

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Asmodeus3
a reply to: quintessentone

Still no answer as it seems.
I understand you will find it very difficult to argue that Covid-19 has come from SARS-CoV-2, both being virus.

Or that Covid-19 is a chimeric virus...

Prove me wrong with evidence from non-right-wing sources.

It doesn't require any right wing sources.

It sounds like you're confusing a disease condition with the pathogens that cause it.

COVID-19 is the terminology that describes the disease condition caused by the virus. Having COVID is the same type of descriptor as having the flu, it's a disease caused by that genetic line of pathogens. Whether the variants are chimeric is irrelevant to the nomenclature of the disease condition. Having COVID-19 means meeting the clinical definition of the disease.

While professionals colloquially use it interchangeably with the name of the viral pathogens that cause it, there is a distinction they recognize when doing so.

These misunderstandings about basic terminology seem to be widespread among the people quick to imply my decade of professional experience was somehow all a QAnon right-wing indoctrination process.

I wonder whether the distinction you have made between viruses and diseases that could be caused by viruses is clear. At least is clear to me but not to someone who doesn't read right wing sources as claimed earlier. I also wonder which right wing sources you used to make the distinction between viruses and diseases.

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Asmodeus3

I see you still won't provide me with non-right-wing sources as to your claims.

What claims? I haven't made any.

These claims are yours

Covid-19 has come from SARS-CoV-2, both being virus

The genome researchers said Covid-19 is FROM SARS-CoV-2 and merged with another pathogen to become a Chimera, so Covid-19 as a Chimera did indeed come from SARS-CoV-2, what is so difficult to understand about that.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Asmodeus3
a reply to: quintessentone

Still no answer as it seems.
I understand you will find it very difficult to argue that Covid-19 has come from SARS-CoV-2, both being virus.

Or that Covid-19 is a chimeric virus...

Prove me wrong with evidence from non-right-wing sources.

It doesn't require any right wing sources.

It sounds like you're confusing a disease condition with the pathogens that cause it.

COVID-19 is the terminology that describes the disease condition caused by the virus. Having COVID is the same type of descriptor as having the flu, it's a disease caused by that genetic line of pathogens. Whether the variants are chimeric is irrelevant to the nomenclature of the disease condition. Having COVID-19 means meeting the clinical definition of the disease.

While professionals colloquially use it interchangeably with the name of the viral pathogens that cause it, there is a distinction they recognize when doing so.

These misunderstandings about basic terminology seem to be widespread among the people quick to imply my decade of professional experience was somehow all a QAnon right-wing indoctrination process.

I don't need any lectures on what Covid-19 is as I've researched it extensively. What my point was, that you obviously missed, was that those people that refute evidenced-based independent peer reviewed science use only right-wing/conservative agenda-driven sources and we are all using data/numbers that are not TRUE/VERIFIABLE. That's all I was pointing out.

It appears you're more interested in continuing your 5 page slapfight than providing a simple clarification of your position.

God forbid anybody try to circumvent more pages of unnecessary back and forth over objective reality. If you understand the distinction I pointed out, rather than deflecting with how well-informed you are, you could simply provide a sentence to show you understand.

Enjoy tapdancing around the topic ad nauseam.

The same to you.

No arguments as it seems just denialism of reality and no facts other than what you believe is objective reality.

So Covid-19 according to you is a virus and according to new unspecified information a chimeric virus!

Whoever doesn't accept this he/she is reading from right wing sources and needs to see the truth.

Likewise Dr Ladapo doesn't know how to interpret VAERS and has claimed causation of every adverse reaction and death from the vaccine. Nowhere Dr Ladapo has claimed what you said.

originally posted by: InachMarbank
a reply to: TheRedneck

It means most people report more than 1 side effect when filing a report.

It could be that it may have caused more than 1 adverse reaction, so it is possible. For example you may get fever, muscular pains, headache. Not unlikely.

But if you just get fever and muscular pains that's not much to worry in the short term. Because you can get myocarditis, pericarditis, myopericarditis, heart failure or even a heart attack. And there are several other serious adverse reactions such as blood clots and autoimmune disorders that can seriously harm an individual.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

Provide sources to refute my claims. You see you can't so you just do what you always do, deflect and insult.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

When I did a search on the statement you keep asking proof of, I came across some interesting info.

We show here that SARS-CoV-2 RNA can be reverse-transcribed and integrated into the genome of the infected cell and be expressed as chimeric transcripts fusing viral with cellular sequences. Importantly, such chimeric transcripts are detected in patient-derived tissues. Our data suggest that, in some patient tissues, the majority of all viral transcripts are derived from integrated sequences. Our data provide an insight into the consequence of SARS-CoV-2 infections that may help to explain why patients can continue to produce viral RNA after recovery.

www.pnas.org...

It almost sounds like once your cell gets infected with SARS COV2 it gets hijacked for life and continues producing SARS-COV2...

Double post

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Asmodeus3

Provide sources to refute my claims. You see you can't so you just do what you always do, deflect and insult.

It's actually the other way around. Provide sources to support your claims. You need to qualify your claims first just as everyone else does. The burden of proof and evidence is on the claimant. Even if you don't have proof you should have some evidence for claiming that Covid-19 is a virus and especially a chimeric one.

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Asmodeus3

Provide sources to refute my claims. You see you can't so you just do what you always do, deflect and insult.

It's actually the other way around. Provide sources to support your claims. You need to qualify your claims first just as everyone else does. The burden of proof and evidence is on the claimant. Even if you don't have proof you should have some evidence for claiming that Covid-19 is a virus and especially a chimeric one.

Answer me this - Is Covid-19 not a virus? If so what is it?

Answer me this - Do geneticists believe SARS-CoV-2 was merged with another pathogen to create the Covid-19 pandemic?

If you answer 'no' then provide the sources as to what led you to that answer.

originally posted by: InachMarbank
a reply to: Asmodeus3

When I did a search on the statement you keep asking proof of, I came across some interesting info.

We show here that SARS-CoV-2 RNA can be reverse-transcribed and integrated into the genome of the infected cell and be expressed as chimeric transcripts fusing viral with cellular sequences. Importantly, such chimeric transcripts are detected in patient-derived tissues. Our data suggest that, in some patient tissues, the majority of all viral transcripts are derived from integrated sequences. Our data provide an insight into the consequence of SARS-CoV-2 infections that may help to explain why patients can continue to produce viral RNA after recovery.

www.pnas.org...

It almost sounds like once your cell gets infected with SARS COV2 it gets hijacked for life and continues producing SARS-COV2...

This is something very different to Covid-19 being a chimeric virus as claimed by the other member.

As for reverse transcription, this is a well known process by which retroviruses convert RNA to DNA and then integrate the DNA into the DNA of the host cell.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

The concerning thing about retroviruses, it is said they can be permanent, if viral DNA is integrated into a host's chromosomes.

And it has been shown SARS-CoV-2 RNA can be reverse-transcribed and integrated into the genome of the infected cell and be expressed as chimeric transcripts fusing viral with cellular sequences.

After I was vaccinated, for 7 months I kept getting alarming convulsions around my heart and left side of my diaphragm. There seemed to be no end in sight to these symptoms. No doctor I sought help from could help me understand. Perhaps my tissues had started to permanently produce SARS COV 2 such as the evidence I linked indicates.

Of course this kind of retrovirus SARS COV2 infection could result from airborne infection or vaccination.

I was finally able to start improving these symptoms by making an extreme life style change. So maybe it won't be permanent.

originally posted by: JBurns
I won't make this a lengthy post, and despite the fact that any person can make a report to VAERS, I will (for now) accept the reported numbers as fact.



41,473 reports were submitted to VAERS in 2021, while only 9,104 were submitted in 2022. This makes a total of 50,577 reports of adverse reactions ranging from minor inconveniences to major events (such as death). Although, again, there is no evidentiary correlation between the vaccine and these numbers, lets assume every last one is related to the COVID vaccines.

COVID-19, the disease caused by the SARS-2-CoV virus, is responsible for 6,860,165 deaths world-wide. To date, there are 673,570,579 total cases of COVID-19 reported world-wide. By these numbers, you have just over a 1% chance of dying from COVID-19 if you were to be infected. Pretty good odds, if you ask me.

Compare these numbers to the total doses given world-wide: 13.29 billion doses given to approximately 5.5 billion people. This means your chance of suffering any adverse reaction is 1:262,767. 1 person will experience an adverse reaction for every 262,767 doses given, or right around 1:109,733 people. In other words, 1 person out of every 109,733 people will experience some adverse side effect. Not neccesarily death, not neccesarily minor - the VAERS reports don't indicate the severity of the side effects.

Source: ourworldindata.org...

I don't need to do the math to show me that 1:109733 is vastly lower than the already low 1% fatality rate among COVID-19 patients.

While it is true your chances of dying from COVID are low, your chance of having a negative side effect from the vaccine is hundreds of times lower than that. This is where the risk vs. reward comes in.

Make the choice on your own folks. Don't buy up the clickbait disguised as scaremongering. Apocalyptic doomsayers are as old as human civilization, and you should pay no more attention to them now than our ancestors did tens of thousands of years ago. People are serving you crap sandwiches and expecting you to eat it with a smile on your face. Because politics? Because ideology? Or is it because they run entire communities based on spreading this stuff (no doubt for monetary renumeration in some cases). These people have a vested self interest in scaring the crap out of you.

They will tell you to do your own research without actually expecting you to do it. This is the result of doing my own research, and I invite you to do your own as well. Don't take my word for it.

I am absolutely staggered that you got starred sixteen times for this complete mess of a post - are those sixteen jabbed members in complete denial or...?

You've made so many mistakes it's hard to know where to begin, however:

You have used worldwide data for vaxx numbers and alleged covid deaths, yet you've only used (part) of the USA reporting system VAERS to 'debunk' safety?

You've forgotten the UK MHRA Yellow Card System, that as of now has a total of:
464,058 total reports

1,517,612 adverse events

2,272 deaths

You've missed the European EMA EudraVigilance system, that stands at:

• Comirnaty - 545,000,000 doses given to people in the EU/EEA, with 522,530 side effects reported (.0009),

Spike Vax - 103,000,000 doses given to
people in the EU/EEA, with 124,410 side effects reported (.001),

• Vaxzevria - 69,000,000 doses given to people in the EU/EEA, with 231,363 side effects reported (.003)

• Janssen (J&J) - 18,700,000 doses given to people in the EU/EEA, with 35,027 side effects reported (.0018).

When you bear in mind that these systems only average a 1 to 10% rate of reports, the true number is absolutely staggering, and continuing to rise

Your fatality rate for covid is massively over-exaggerated as well, even as it stands where a large majority of the claimed deaths weren't of covid at all, merely within specified days of a positive PCR test, which means absolutely nothing as it's not an indicator of illness and when a papaya can test positive, completely worthless

I would say nice try, but were I a teacher you'd be getting 'Ungraded' for this sloppy mess of an attempt

Smells like absolute desperation to me

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Asmodeus3

Provide sources to refute my claims. You see you can't so you just do what you always do, deflect and insult.

It's actually the other way around. Provide sources to support your claims. You need to qualify your claims first just as everyone else does. The burden of proof and evidence is on the claimant. Even if you don't have proof you should have some evidence for claiming that Covid-19 is a virus and especially a chimeric one.

Answer me this - Is Covid-19 not a virus? If so what is it?

No, it is not a virus. COVID-19 is a clinical disease diagnosis, which I already told you. It is caused by any one of a number of the variants of SARS-COV-2.

COVID-19 (coronavirus disease 2019) is a disease caused by a virus named SARS-CoV-2

CDC.gov

It is literally in the first sentence at the CDC page on the topic. It can now be said without hyperbole that during every prior discussion you had defending vaccines you didn't know the first thing about COVID-19.

originally posted by: WraithOfEva777

originally posted by: JBurns
I won't make this a lengthy post, and despite the fact that any person can make a report to VAERS, I will (for now) accept the reported numbers as fact.



41,473 reports were submitted to VAERS in 2021, while only 9,104 were submitted in 2022. This makes a total of 50,577 reports of adverse reactions ranging from minor inconveniences to major events (such as death). Although, again, there is no evidentiary correlation between the vaccine and these numbers, lets assume every last one is related to the COVID vaccines.

COVID-19, the disease caused by the SARS-2-CoV virus, is responsible for 6,860,165 deaths world-wide. To date, there are 673,570,579 total cases of COVID-19 reported world-wide. By these numbers, you have just over a 1% chance of dying from COVID-19 if you were to be infected. Pretty good odds, if you ask me.

Compare these numbers to the total doses given world-wide: 13.29 billion doses given to approximately 5.5 billion people. This means your chance of suffering any adverse reaction is 1:262,767. 1 person will experience an adverse reaction for every 262,767 doses given, or right around 1:109,733 people. In other words, 1 person out of every 109,733 people will experience some adverse side effect. Not neccesarily death, not neccesarily minor - the VAERS reports don't indicate the severity of the side effects.

Source: ourworldindata.org...

I don't need to do the math to show me that 1:109733 is vastly lower than the already low 1% fatality rate among COVID-19 patients.

While it is true your chances of dying from COVID are low, your chance of having a negative side effect from the vaccine is hundreds of times lower than that. This is where the risk vs. reward comes in.

Make the choice on your own folks. Don't buy up the clickbait disguised as scaremongering. Apocalyptic doomsayers are as old as human civilization, and you should pay no more attention to them now than our ancestors did tens of thousands of years ago. People are serving you crap sandwiches and expecting you to eat it with a smile on your face. Because politics? Because ideology? Or is it because they run entire communities based on spreading this stuff (no doubt for monetary renumeration in some cases). These people have a vested self interest in scaring the crap out of you.

They will tell you to do your own research without actually expecting you to do it. This is the result of doing my own research, and I invite you to do your own as well. Don't take my word for it.

I am absolutely staggered that you got starred sixteen times for this complete mess of a post - are those sixteen jabbed members in complete denial or...?

You've made so many mistakes it's hard to know where to begin, however:

You have used worldwide data for vaxx numbers and alleged covid deaths, yet you've only used (part) of the USA reporting system VAERS to 'debunk' safety?

You've forgotten the UK MHRA Yellow Card System, that as of now has a total of:
464,058 total reports

1,517,612 adverse events

2,272 deaths

You've missed the European EMA EudraVigilance system, that stands at:

• Comirnaty - 545,000,000 doses given to people in the EU/EEA, with 522,530 side effects reported (.0009),

Spike Vax - 103,000,000 doses given to
people in the EU/EEA, with 124,410 side effects reported (.001),

• Vaxzevria - 69,000,000 doses given to people in the EU/EEA, with 231,363 side effects reported (.003)

• Janssen (J&J) - 18,700,000 doses given to people in the EU/EEA, with 35,027 side effects reported (.0018).

When you bear in mind that these systems only average a 1 to 10% rate of reports, the true number is absolutely staggering, and continuing to rise

Your fatality rate for covid is massively over-exaggerated as well, even as it stands where a large majority of the claimed deaths weren't of covid at all, merely within specified days of a positive PCR test, which means absolutely nothing as it's not an indicator of illness and when a papaya can test positive, completely worthless

I would say nice try, but were I a teacher you'd be getting 'Ungraded' for this sloppy mess of an attempt

Smells like absolute desperation to me

I cannot agree more!
See my posts which I have described exactly the same issues with the post that has several flaws and number & statistics together with analysis that are completely false.

The member is using the case fatality rate CFR instead of the infection fatality rate IFR in the US which is very misleading as those who are asymptomatic and those who have minor symptoms and never get tested are not taken into account. Hence the number is massively exaggerated to 1 death in every 103 infections. The figure is obviously completely wrong.

The global average IFR was around 0.15% before any medical interventions. Now probably the same or even lower than that of a flu.

Then there is more magic in the analysis when the rate of adverse reactions is estimated to be 1 in every 100,000+ vaccinees. Which is again completely wrong as the estimation is based on the total number of reported adverse reactions in Florida to the total number of shots given worldwide!!!

Extraordinary!!!

The rate of serious adverse reactions from the original phase3 clinical trials of both Pfizer and Moderna is at least 1 in 800 vaccinees.

The whole attempt is more like trying hard to defend the narratives and dogma that have collapsed long time ago.

a reply to: visitedbythem

Hmmm. I'll stick with the facts and figures provided thanks..

Although you have my deepest sympathies regarding the loss of your friends and family, anecdotes don't cut it in this sort of debate I am afraid..

You need to remove emotion from your arguments..

Again, apologies for you losses, but let's keep this scientific..

PA