Debunking Vaccine Myths RE VAERS

originally posted by: PerfectAnomoly
a reply to: Asmodeus3

Well, again you show your ignorance...

Claiming these drugs are "untested", or "experimental" is just ludicrous and parroted many times by your ilk on this site..

These vaccines went through EXACTLY the same testing process as every other drug/vaccine in human history..

The only difference being, these tests were carried out in parralell, not in series, hence the speed with which they came to market..

When you continue to make these previously refuted claims your other arguments are brought into question..

Get your facts right, then we can discuss these points like adults...

PA

The drugs are experimental and virtually untested. They had EUA status when they were mandated, Corminaty was not available, then it was a bait and switch. They approved a different drug than the one they gave out

Testing a drug for 6 months doesn't count either since it takes much longer than that for proper trials, and 6 blind mice doesn't count. These "vaccines" are medical counter measures that disseminate from the DoD which legally doesn't require testing under the PREP act.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: PerfectAnomoly
a reply to: Asmodeus3

Original OP's post makes sense...

I've always known that contracting COVID is more dangerous than taking the vaccine's, it's common sense when you look at the statistics with an open mind...

This is what the OP was attempting to demonstrate..

If you can't see this then nothing I can say will change your mind...

You see, the difference between you and me is my opininons change when presented with reliable evidence... I was originally skeptical of the vaccines, but once I understood the data I understood that the risk associated with catching COVID was far greater...

Again, if you can't see this then you are beyond reasonable debate... I don't know how many more times people need to point this out to you personally before you start to grasp it.. I've seen people explain this to you many times... And yet to continue to persist with your little soundbites and copy and pasted resposnses saying the same thing..

Clearly you are committed to a certain route and are not open to alternative arguments... Which is sad...

This is not a good look on a site such as this which encourages debate and sharing of information....

PA

There could be no comparison between vaccines and viruses. Vaccines are compared to vaccines and viruses to viruses.

You have repeatedly made this claim and it is simply and obviously wrong.

Comparing the outcomes of the vaccines and the virus is fundamental to risk benefit analysis.

If you still can't understand this then perhaps you are not in a position to be judging anyone's understanding of the data.

Your arguments have been refuted several times in the past and you are very late in this conversation for once more. It seems the entire vaccine apologist team has been very upset with the failed attempts by your fellow vaccine apologist who tried to debunk whatever he was trying to debunk and he couldn't even provide a single correct statistic. All numbers, statistics, and analysis are wrong.

I think you should be more concerned with the attempt by another member to present Covid-19 as a virus and especially as a chimeric virus...I am sure you know the difference between the SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19. The other member doesn't seem to get it.

originally posted by: PerfectAnomoly
a reply to: Asmodeus3

Well, again you show your ignorance...

Claiming these drugs are "untested", or "experimental" is just ludicrous and parroted many times by your ilk on this site..

These vaccines went through EXACTLY the same testing process as every other drug/vaccine in human history..

The only difference being, these tests were carried out in parralell, not in series, hence the speed with which they came to market..

When you continue to make these previously refuted claims your other arguments are brought into question..

Get your facts right, then we can discuss these points like adults...

PA

I will say for once more that I don't think you have understood the data at all. You are engaging in vaccine apologetics usually and denying the reality of these untested, experimental, and potentially hazardous products. Because you speak about other members you most likely referring to fellow vaccine apologists who have had their arguments refuted just as it happened with the member who created this thread.

What parallel and series tests are you talking about?? The only think you haven't claimed is a parallel universe to justify the safety and effectiveness of these products that are known to cause serious harm and death.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Yes the argument was lost by the OP in the first few pages

The really amazing thing is that members have flagged this thread 7 times and starred the OP 17 times given that the analysis and the statistics are completely wrong. All of them.

Using the CFR instead of the IFR and making conclusions about how lethal the virus is. Hence disregarding those who are asymptomatic and those who have minor infections who never get tested. Both groups represent a very large number of those infected.

Then mixing up the adverse reactions reported in VAERS only in the State of Florida with the total number of adverse reactions reported in the entire country and then amazingly dividing this figure with the total number of shots given in the entire world!!! And finally make conclusions based upon this...

Then the OP says

I don't need to do the math to show me that 1:109733 is vastly lower than the already low 1% fatality rate among COVID-19 patients.

Both figures are completely wrong as we have seen and nothing else is taken into account such as age group, co-morbidities, etc. All other conclusions and extrapolations are also wrong as they are based on the wrong numbers and analysis.

I have seen also a pattern by other members, few of them, but nevertheless vaccine apologists, who try desperately to degrade and diminish VAERS or any other reporting system as completely unreliable and non credible.

Argument by the OP was lost due to his false number, statistics, and analysis.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Asmodeus3

Provide sources to refute my claims. You see you can't so you just do what you always do, deflect and insult.

It's actually the other way around. Provide sources to support your claims. You need to qualify your claims first just as everyone else does. The burden of proof and evidence is on the claimant. Even if you don't have proof you should have some evidence for claiming that Covid-19 is a virus and especially a chimeric one.

Answer me this - Is Covid-19 not a virus? If so what is it?

No, it is not a virus. COVID-19 is a clinical disease diagnosis, which I already told you. It is caused by any one of a number of the variants of SARS-COV-2.

COVID-19 (coronavirus disease 2019) is a disease caused by a virus named SARS-CoV-2

CDC.gov

It is literally in the first sentence at the CDC page on the topic. It can now be said without hyperbole that during every prior discussion you had defending vaccines you didn't know the first thing about COVID-19.

Then answer me this, why is Paxlovid - an anti-viral medication - prescribed for Covid-19 if it is not a virus?

“I think it is the beginning of a ‘game-changer,’” says Scott Roberts, MD, a Yale Medicine infectious diseases specialist. “It's really our first efficacious oral antiviral pill for this virus. It shows clear benefit, and it really can prevent hospitalization and death in people who are at high risk.”

www.yalemedicine.org...

I can't reduce the explanation any further than the statement I already linked from the CDC. I can only further illustrate the distinction using other examples.

COVID-19 is a disease. It is precipitated by having an infection with SARS-COV-2 variants resulting in a clinical criteria being met.

Much like chicken pox is a disease, which caused by varicella-zoster. Like smallpox is a disease, which is caused by variola virus. Like genital warts is a disease, which is caused by human papillomavirus. Like AIDS is a syndrome, caused by human immunodeficiency virus.

I cannot help that it is used colloquially in an incorrect way. It doesn't benefit pharmaceutical companies to correct ignorance in the masses. People on TV and giving statements to the press are not paid to educate your or correct your erroneous beliefs, nor use terminology in an technically accurate way. They are paid to make you believe whatever causes you to do what the people paying them want. In the case of COVID almost every single entity involved, from the NIH to the press to the many straw authors of studies, are compensated by the pharmaceutical lobby.

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: PerfectAnomoly
a reply to: Asmodeus3

Original OP's post makes sense...

I've always known that contracting COVID is more dangerous than taking the vaccine's, it's common sense when you look at the statistics with an open mind...

This is what the OP was attempting to demonstrate..

If you can't see this then nothing I can say will change your mind...

You see, the difference between you and me is my opininons change when presented with reliable evidence... I was originally skeptical of the vaccines, but once I understood the data I understood that the risk associated with catching COVID was far greater...

Again, if you can't see this then you are beyond reasonable debate... I don't know how many more times people need to point this out to you personally before you start to grasp it.. I've seen people explain this to you many times... And yet to continue to persist with your little soundbites and copy and pasted resposnses saying the same thing..

Clearly you are committed to a certain route and are not open to alternative arguments... Which is sad...

This is not a good look on a site such as this which encourages debate and sharing of information....

PA

There could be no comparison between vaccines and viruses. Vaccines are compared to vaccines and viruses to viruses.

You have repeatedly made this claim and it is simply and obviously wrong.

Comparing the outcomes of the vaccines and the virus is fundamental to risk benefit analysis.

If you still can't understand this then perhaps you are not in a position to be judging anyone's understanding of the data.

Your arguments have been refuted several times in the past and you are very late in this conversation for once more. It seems the entire vaccine apologist team has been very upset with the failed attempts by your fellow vaccine apologist who tried to debunk whatever he was trying to debunk and he couldn't even provide a single correct statistic. All numbers, statistics, and analysis are wrong.

I think you should be more concerned with the attempt by another member to present Covid-19 as a virus and especially as a chimeric virus...I am sure you know the difference between the SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19. The other member doesn't seem to get it.

You do understand there is a difference between you having an opinion and refuting arguments?

You also understand that someone having a different opinion to you doesn't make them a 'vaccine apologist' or whatever other meaningless term you wish to use (ad nasuem).

And in this specific Instance no my arguments have not been refuted by the simple fact that your position is ludicrous. Of course the outcome of the virus and vaccine are compared.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

Don't be obtuse.

I was talking about your argument, not the OP's.

More denialism of reality, I'm afraid.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: PerfectAnomoly
a reply to: Asmodeus3

Original OP's post makes sense...

I've always known that contracting COVID is more dangerous than taking the vaccine's, it's common sense when you look at the statistics with an open mind...

This is what the OP was attempting to demonstrate..

If you can't see this then nothing I can say will change your mind...

You see, the difference between you and me is my opininons change when presented with reliable evidence... I was originally skeptical of the vaccines, but once I understood the data I understood that the risk associated with catching COVID was far greater...

Again, if you can't see this then you are beyond reasonable debate... I don't know how many more times people need to point this out to you personally before you start to grasp it.. I've seen people explain this to you many times... And yet to continue to persist with your little soundbites and copy and pasted resposnses saying the same thing..

Clearly you are committed to a certain route and are not open to alternative arguments... Which is sad...

This is not a good look on a site such as this which encourages debate and sharing of information....

PA

There could be no comparison between vaccines and viruses. Vaccines are compared to vaccines and viruses to viruses.

You have repeatedly made this claim and it is simply and obviously wrong.

Comparing the outcomes of the vaccines and the virus is fundamental to risk benefit analysis.

If you still can't understand this then perhaps you are not in a position to be judging anyone's understanding of the data.

Your arguments have been refuted several times in the past and you are very late in this conversation for once more. It seems the entire vaccine apologist team has been very upset with the failed attempts by your fellow vaccine apologist who tried to debunk whatever he was trying to debunk and he couldn't even provide a single correct statistic. All numbers, statistics, and analysis are wrong.

I think you should be more concerned with the attempt by another member to present Covid-19 as a virus and especially as a chimeric virus...I am sure you know the difference between the SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19. The other member doesn't seem to get it.

You do understand there is a difference between you having an opinion and refuting arguments?

You also understand that someone having a different opinion to you doesn't make them a 'vaccine apologist' or whatever other meaningless term you wish to use (ad nasuem).

And in this specific Instance no my arguments have not been refuted by the simple fact that your position is ludicrous. Of course the outcome of the virus and vaccine are compared.

Your arguments have been refuted several times as they rely on vaccine apologetics and denialism of reality just as all other other arguments by vaccine apologists made in this thread and in many other threads.

From the 'mysterious and new' account they came to debunk whatever he/she wanted to debunk and couldn't even provide a single correct number, statistic, and logical piece of analysis...

To the latest arguments made by another member who insists that Covid-19 is a virus. The argument becomes even more interesting as this virus has emerged from the combination of SARS-CoV-2 with another virus to become... Covid-19!

a reply to: Asmodeus3

You forgot "defenders of the pharmaceuticals".

Tsssk.

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: PerfectAnomoly
a reply to: Asmodeus3

Original OP's post makes sense...

I've always known that contracting COVID is more dangerous than taking the vaccine's, it's common sense when you look at the statistics with an open mind...

This is what the OP was attempting to demonstrate..

If you can't see this then nothing I can say will change your mind...

You see, the difference between you and me is my opininons change when presented with reliable evidence... I was originally skeptical of the vaccines, but once I understood the data I understood that the risk associated with catching COVID was far greater...

Again, if you can't see this then you are beyond reasonable debate... I don't know how many more times people need to point this out to you personally before you start to grasp it.. I've seen people explain this to you many times... And yet to continue to persist with your little soundbites and copy and pasted resposnses saying the same thing..

Clearly you are committed to a certain route and are not open to alternative arguments... Which is sad...

This is not a good look on a site such as this which encourages debate and sharing of information....

PA

There could be no comparison between vaccines and viruses. Vaccines are compared to vaccines and viruses to viruses.

You have repeatedly made this claim and it is simply and obviously wrong.

Comparing the outcomes of the vaccines and the virus is fundamental to risk benefit analysis.

If you still can't understand this then perhaps you are not in a position to be judging anyone's understanding of the data.

Your arguments have been refuted several times in the past and you are very late in this conversation for once more. It seems the entire vaccine apologist team has been very upset with the failed attempts by your fellow vaccine apologist who tried to debunk whatever he was trying to debunk and he couldn't even provide a single correct statistic. All numbers, statistics, and analysis are wrong.

I think you should be more concerned with the attempt by another member to present Covid-19 as a virus and especially as a chimeric virus...I am sure you know the difference between the SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19. The other member doesn't seem to get it.

You do understand there is a difference between you having an opinion and refuting arguments?

You also understand that someone having a different opinion to you doesn't make them a 'vaccine apologist' or whatever other meaningless term you wish to use (ad nasuem).

And in this specific Instance no my arguments have not been refuted by the simple fact that your position is ludicrous. Of course the outcome of the virus and vaccine are compared.

Your arguments have been refuted several times as they rely on vaccine apologetics and denialism of reality just as all other other arguments by vaccine apologists made in this thread and in many other threads.

From the 'mysterious and new' account they came to debunk whatever he/she wanted to debunk and couldn't even provide a single correct number, statistic, and logical piece of analysis...

To the latest arguments made by another member who insists that Covid-19 is a virus. The argument becomes even more interesting as this virus has emerged from the combination of SARS-CoV-2 with another virus to become... Covid-19!

So the answer is no you don't understand the difference.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Asmodeus3

Don't be obtuse.

I was talking about your argument, not the OP's.

More denialism of reality, I'm afraid.

My arguments are correct and reasonable.. You should be more concerned about your fellow left wing vaccine apologists who have come to this thread and have had their arguments repeatedly refuted.

From the 'mysterious and new' account that came to debunk whatever he/she wanted to debunk and couldn't even provide a single correct number, statistic, and logical piece of analysis...

To the latest arguments made by another member who insists that Covid-19 is a virus. The argument becomes even more interesting as this virus has emerged from the combination of SARS-CoV-2 with another virus to become... Covid-19!

You seem to be very concerned with the way it goes with those who are defending the Pharmaceuticals.

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Asmodeus3

Provide sources to refute my claims. You see you can't so you just do what you always do, deflect and insult.

It's actually the other way around. Provide sources to support your claims. You need to qualify your claims first just as everyone else does. The burden of proof and evidence is on the claimant. Even if you don't have proof you should have some evidence for claiming that Covid-19 is a virus and especially a chimeric one.

Answer me this - Is Covid-19 not a virus? If so what is it?

No, it is not a virus. COVID-19 is a clinical disease diagnosis, which I already told you. It is caused by any one of a number of the variants of SARS-COV-2.

COVID-19 (coronavirus disease 2019) is a disease caused by a virus named SARS-CoV-2

CDC.gov

It is literally in the first sentence at the CDC page on the topic. It can now be said without hyperbole that during every prior discussion you had defending vaccines you didn't know the first thing about COVID-19.

Then answer me this, why is Paxlovid - an anti-viral medication - prescribed for Covid-19 if it is not a virus?

“I think it is the beginning of a ‘game-changer,’” says Scott Roberts, MD, a Yale Medicine infectious diseases specialist. “It's really our first efficacious oral antiviral pill for this virus. It shows clear benefit, and it really can prevent hospitalization and death in people who are at high risk.”

www.yalemedicine.org...

I can't reduce the explanation any further than the statement I already linked from the CDC. I can only further illustrate the distinction using other examples.

COVID-19 is a disease. It is precipitated by having an infection with SARS-COV-2 variants resulting in a clinical criteria being met.

Much like chicken pox is a disease, which caused by varicella-zoster. Like smallpox is a disease, which is caused by variola virus. Like genital warts is a disease, which is caused by human papillomavirus. Like AIDS is a syndrome, caused by human immunodeficiency virus.

I cannot help that it is used colloquially in an incorrect way. It doesn't benefit pharmaceutical companies to correct ignorance in the masses. People on TV and giving statements to the press are not paid to educate your or correct your erroneous beliefs, nor use terminology in an technically accurate way. They are paid to make you believe whatever causes you to do what the people paying them want. In the case of COVID almost every single entity involved, from the NIH to the press to the many straw authors of studies, are compensated by the pharmaceutical lobby.

I have explained it earlier too but he seems to be asking for links again that Covid-19 isn't a virus.. I remember that yesterday he was asking me to disprove his claims... But it doesn't go this way, he has to qualify his claims first. Bit this hasn't happened yet.

a reply to: Asmodeus3


Mysterious and new account?

a reply to: Asmodeus3

"You seem to be very concerned with the way it goes with those who are defending the Pharmaceuticals."

More word salad?

And what "mysterious and new' account are you referring to, please?

a reply to: v1rtu0s0

It's rather disingenuous for someone to argue that these products are non experimental, tested, and safe and effective. Given the evidence and the harms they have caused, including deaths, the conclusion is that these products are untested, experimental, and potentially hazardous, so not safe and effective.

In terms of the VAERS reports it's again disingenuous for someone to claim that there is nothing going on when there are many more adverse reactions registered than all adverse reactions of all other vaccines put together in the last 30 years or so.

a reply to: PerfectAnomoly

How does one compare the outcomes of the vaccines and the virus?

a reply to: Asmodeus3

Again, you come out with the "untested" argument despite the fact that this claim has been refuted and debunked many times over and you have been shown to be wrong.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Asmodeus3

Again, you come out with the "untested" argument despite the fact that this claim has been refuted and debunked many times over and you have been shown to be wrong.

As explained above in a few lines

It's rather disingenuous for someone to argue that these products are non experimental, tested, and safe and effective. Given the evidence and the harms they have caused, including deaths, the conclusion is that these products are untested, experimental, and potentially hazardous, so not safe and effective.

Nothing of what you said has been debunked in the past. The opposite has happened. The vaccine apologists have been debunked.

It looks many are concerned about the number of adverse reactions registered in VAERS and they try hard to ignore it dismiss them and on the way gaslight those who have been affected by the 'vaccines'.