You Either Keep Getting Your Booster Shots Or Admit You Were Wrong

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Xtrozero

A lot of the baby boomers reached end of their life expectancy around 2015, i suspect that at least contributed to the rise.

What's causing the current rise? Could be a multitude of things. I think the red flag is the near complete media blackout about the rising excess mortality. When the virus was killing thousands per week the news was saturated with fear and doom. Now thousands are dying weekly and they go silent? I think we need to read between the lines.

Lots going on... Here are some thoughts of mine

1. What was the mass immigration like after 2015?
2. Massive increase in crime right now
3. Extreme issue with healthcare, I posted that with just excessive ER wait times it is up to 500 excessive deaths for that alone per month.
4. Many other healthcare maintenances not being done or stretched out way pass than what was done in the past.
5. Boomers getting older
6. What is the general overall health of the population now... Are they couch potatoes now where once they walked everywhere? We are seeing this in some Asian countries where the population is getting fatter and unhealthier
7. Lock downs were bad with long term issues
8. More drug use with depression etc and other factors.
9. Maybe more issues with the vaccines as they do count the COIVID deaths, but there will also be vaccine deaths too.

But none of this really speaks to why in May 2022 excessive deaths instantly spiked to 4k per month. Like you, I'm starting to think it been an error in their process and that excessive rate might have been there even before the pandemic.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Asmodeus3
No assumptions are made here. The number of excess deaths in the UK since July 2022 has increased dramatically. And many other countries have seen similar increases. It's over 30,000 in the UK for the non Covid deaths Far more than the Covid deaths.

Your assumptions are the vaccine is doing most of the deaths. I'm not debating the 30k... We talked about this already like 5 times. When I look at the death rate for UK after 2015 something strange is going on. 10 years prior it was around 500k +- a few 1000 in either direction for like 10+ years then in 2015 it jumped to about 529 in one year, so why? Then we started to see further big jumps of around 5k to 7k per year after that, why? By 2019 we were up to 238 in a few short years and growing now. Of course, 2020 put everything out of wack as the number then pushed past 608k, but as we settle down that pre-COVID swing upwards didn't just stop. We are most likely looking at 570k+ non-COVID deaths for 2023 now with some pre-COVID number if we continued the 2015 trajectory.

You are trying to hit the easy button here and just say vaccine did it, and the strange part is the excessive deaths didn't start until May of 2022 where it was instantly there like overnight and continued on at about the same level for the rest of the year and now into 2023. If you are really interested in what happened in May 2022 to start some excessive death rate of 4k or so every month there on I would dig into other factors than just your easy button.

Vaccine deaths just would not work that way, and May does not align with any release of boosters either... So what is it?

I never said that. But my understanding is that it has contributed just as other factors. If you learn how to read and not making strawman arguments then it will help your sometimes your arguments if and when they have merits.

The rest of your text relies on your false assumptions and strawman arguments.

I will repeat what I said above

You are engaging in vaccine apologetics and the usual denialism of reality. And this is a reality or let's say a bubble that you have built it over the years where you have placed trust on institutions and organisations that have lost their credibility and nobody can trust them anymore.

Then you make even more bizarre comparisons by comparing the vaccines to the disease! Try comparing the vaccines to other vaccines and the disease to other diseases. For example the Spanish Flu has an IFR of 10% when Covid-19 had an IFR of 0.15%. That's a proper comparison.

It seems to me there is no way to escape from the mistake you have made to trust these products and the establishment that promotes them. I mean many have realised their mistake and accepted it as they don't want to be on the wrong side of history.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Xtrozero

A lot of the baby boomers reached end of their life expectancy around 2015, i suspect that at least contributed to the rise.

What's causing the current rise? Could be a multitude of things. I think the red flag is the near complete media blackout about the rising excess mortality. When the virus was killing thousands per week the news was saturated with fear and doom. Now thousands are dying weekly and they go silent? I think we need to read between the lines.

Lots going on... Here are some thoughts of mine

1. What was the mass immigration like after 2015?
2. Massive increase in crime right now
3. Extreme issue with healthcare, I posted that with just excessive ER wait times it is up to 500 excessive deaths for that alone per month.
4. Many other healthcare maintenances not being done or stretched out way pass than what was done in the past.
5. Boomers getting older
6. What is the general overall health of the population now... Are they couch potatoes now where once they walked everywhere? We are seeing this in some Asian countries where the population is getting fatter and unhealthier
7. Lock downs were bad with long term issues
8. More drug use with depression etc and other factors.
9. Maybe more issues with the vaccines as they do count the COIVID deaths, but there will also be vaccine deaths too.

But none of this really speaks to why in May 2022 excessive deaths instantly spiked to 4k per month. Like you, I'm starting to think it been an error in their process and that excessive rate might have been there even before the pandemic.

Trying to claim that everything is under control with excess deaths in most countries in the world that have used lockdowns and restriction as well as mass vaccinations, is at least myopic, not to say disingenuous.

We all know what the factors are for the excess non Covid deaths that are observed pretty much everywhere.

originally posted by: igloo

With this in mind, we have to go back to think about traditional vaccines and the fact that it was always said that the common cold would never have a vaccine as it mutates so fast. Common cold being simply a coronavirus. So we had a media screeching about a vaccine cure for an ailment we were always aware of as not worthy of pursuing do to it being too slippery and too commonly mild.

I still view the COVID vaccine at first as the front-line support for the high risk/old population for a new virus and maybe now as the flu shot is seen as for those who may need that extra support.

The stat of 75 deaths per 100000 stated for arthritis... those were people who had daily struggles with arthritis to the point of either disability now or in the near future.

Sure, but my point was most drugs are well over 1 per 100,000 and the other poster kept saying ANY drug at 1 per 100,000 is so bad it needs to be removed and has been in the past when the death rate gets that high. I was just pointing out that every drug is basically higher than 1 per 100,000... To include the weak 87mg aspirin.

We can squabble about stats but it doesn't change the problem of a rogue and corporate infiltrated government or the damage that has been done both physically and psychologically to the world population.

I see a few different debates here. One is did/does the vaccine help in any way. Another is how risky are the vaccines to the actual virus. Another is how bad our governments handled it all at even criminal levels. Another is how money hungry is Big Pharma in all this to push booster after booster even on kids who have close to zero issues with the virus.

It gets rather frustrating when people jumble everything into on issue or reply to one issue when they are really talking about another issue...

Such as if I said the vaccine help and the replay was but the Government sucked in their responses. I would be like well yes that too, but what does that have to do with my post... I said what does that have to do with my post dozens of times now on all this.

originally posted by: Asmodeus3
If you learn how to read and not making strawman arguments then it will help your sometimes your arguments if and when they have merits.

Holy crap! I can apply this to every post you make.

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

Trying to claim that everything is under control with excess deaths in most countries in the world that have used lockdowns and restriction as well as mass vaccinations, is at least myopic, not to say disingenuous.

We all know what the factors are for the excess non Covid deaths that are observed pretty much everywhere.

You do know you do not need to post to everything, right? I made no claims on my post and even said here as some of my thoughts on this. You keep say "we" so you must have a mouse in your pocket.

a reply to: Xtrozero

The UK NHS statistics do raise interesting questions.

UK NHS ACM

Look at 1976 when there were 680,177 deaths. Well above historical averages and within ballpark 10% of 2020 — in fact there are four years in the 1970s within striking distance of 2020.

Why?

2020 is 689,629

What exactly are 2021, 2022 and 2023 this dataset appears to lack those years.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Asmodeus3
If you learn how to read and not making strawman arguments then it will help your sometimes your arguments if and when they have merits.

Holy crap! I can apply this to every post you make.

False as you are the one who is making the strawman arguments all the way.

Toy have claimed that I was the one who linked all excess non Covid deaths with the vaccinations. False and a strawman, as usual.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: igloo

With this in mind, we have to go back to think about traditional vaccines and the fact that it was always said that the common cold would never have a vaccine as it mutates so fast. Common cold being simply a coronavirus. So we had a media screeching about a vaccine cure for an ailment we were always aware of as not worthy of pursuing do to it being too slippery and too commonly mild.

I still view the COVID vaccine at first as the front-line support for the high risk/old population for a new virus and maybe now as the flu shot is seen as for those who may need that extra support.

The stat of 75 deaths per 100000 stated for arthritis... those were people who had daily struggles with arthritis to the point of either disability now or in the near future.

Sure, but my point was most drugs are well over 1 per 100,000 and the other poster kept saying ANY drug at 1 per 100,000 is so bad it needs to be removed and has been in the past when the death rate gets that high. I was just pointing out that every drug is basically higher than 1 per 100,000... To include the weak 87mg aspirin.

We can squabble about stats but it doesn't change the problem of a rogue and corporate infiltrated government or the damage that has been done both physically and psychologically to the world population.

I see a few different debates here. One is did/does the vaccine help in any way. Another is how risky are the vaccines to the actual virus. Another is how bad our governments handled it all at even criminal levels. Another is how money hungry is Big Pharma in all this to push booster after booster even on kids who have close to zero issues with the virus.

It gets rather frustrating when people jumble everything into on issue and I see many different issues here.

The vaccine is not safe and effective to give it to millions of people even the ones who considered to be at high risk unless they want to get an experimental and untested product. But this had to be stated clearly. The products have not been properly tested or not tested at all, we don't know the short, medium and long terms effects, but we believe they can help you at this stage.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Professor Levi

So presented with all of this evidence, I think that there is no other ethical or scientific choice but to pull out of the market these medical products and stop all the mRNA vaccination programmes. This is clearly the most failing medical product in the history of medical products, both in terms of efficacy and safety. And we need to investigate and think hard: How did we end up in a situation that it’s also the most profitable medical product in the history of medical products?

I think you need to think again whether you are on the wrong side of history. You have invested quite a lot in these products arguing that some part of the population must take them.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

99% of the anti-vax argument is BS. People were so throughly duped into paying attention to something totally irrelevant and they don't want to admit it.

Still here...more than a year later and counting.

"Just wait" they say

They sound like the folks waiting for Trump's "imminent indictment" to me.......

a reply to: Asmodeus3

There is no wrong side of history, vaccination like any medical procedure is a personal choice. Full stop.

The ones spending every waking minute trying to convince others not to take them in order to justify their own position is what concerns me.

"Its magnetic!"
"Its 5G!"
"Youll drop dead in 2 months, 1 year, 10 years" 🙄 Maybe so but not from the shots

Its none of that. Typical Q-anon true believer BS. What was the excuse for when none of that actually happend anyhow? I must've missed it. Or did the true beleivers hop right onto the next thing just-further-down-the-road? I suspect they used the same talking points as they used keep the ever-dwindling pool of Q believers hooked.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

Not experimental and not untested. They have the same approval status as the other big pharma crap does. And as of this date, they are probably one of the most tested drugs in the inventory. The vast majority of the population have at least one dose, the vast majority of the population handled it just fine, the vast majority of the people have absolutely nothing to worry about.

Will I take #6? No. Not because I buy one word of the cockamamie anti-vax BS, but because I don't feel the need to overuse pharmaceuticals. Again, it lasted me through the worst of the pandemic - and it was a pandemic I know people who died. I didn't get the virus despite multiple exposures.

Sounds pretty efficacious to me as well

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Asmodeus3

99% of the anti-vax argument is BS. People were so throughly duped into paying attention to something totally irrelevant and they don't want to admit it.

Still here...more than a year later and counting.

"Just wait" they say

They sound like the folks waiting for Trump's "imminent indictment" to me.......

Antivax is a pejorative and doesn't exist in the medical and scientific literature. The rest is irrelevant nonsense.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Asmodeus3

Not experimental and not untested. They have the same approval status as the other big pharma crap does. And as of this date, they are probably one of the most tested drugs in the inventory. The vast majority of the population have at least one dose, the vast majority of the population handled it just fine, the vast majority of the people have absolutely nothing to worry about.

Will I take #6? No. Not because I buy one word of the cockamamie anti-vax BS, but because I don't feel the need to overuse pharmaceuticals. Again, it lasted me through the worst of the pandemic - and it was a pandemic I know people who died. I didn't get the virus despite multiple exposures.

Sounds pretty efficacious to me as well

Experimental and untested and as it has been shown very dangerous. Your argument lacks merits and evidence unless you know the short, medium and long term effects of these products or the benefit to risk ratio for all age groups. Unless you have a time machine...

It is currently tested in entire populations all clinical phase trials were squizzed in a year or so. This is the phase3 clinical trial. What we have been going through the last 2 years. You seem not to understand how the clinical phase trials work and home long they take.

Emergency authorisation doesn't price safety and effectiveness.

This is the most failed medical product in history just as Dr Malhotra and Professor Levi have said.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Asmodeus3

There is no wrong side of history, vaccination like any medical procedure is a personal choice. Full stop.

The ones spending every waking minute trying to convince others not to take them in order to justify their own position is what concerns me.

"Its magnetic!"
"Its 5G!"
"Youll drop dead in 2 months, 1 year, 10 years" 🙄 Maybe so but not from the shots

Its none of that. Typical Q-anon true believer BS. What was the excuse for when none of that actually happend anyhow? I must've missed it. Or did the true beleivers hop right onto the next thing just-further-down-the-road? I suspect they used the same talking points as they used keep the ever-dwindling pool of Q believers hooked.

You will be in the wrong side of history of you have chosen to defend the pharmaceuticals and the absurd and ludicrous vaccine campaign.

You are mistaken if you think that everyone here is trying to convince others about taking or not taking these products.

And not it wasn't a personal choice for many people as they were coerced, pressured, intimidated, and even threatened with dismissal by their employers. Science and medicine doesn't establish itself with the above tactics and methods.

The rest of your text is just nonsense.

Stop engaging in vaccine apologetics and denialism of reality.

I don't know who you are but

a reply to: Asmodeus3

Debunking obviously disproven myths about vaccines equates to being an apologist? You have one warped sense of reality my friend.

You are mistaken if you think that everyone here is trying to convince others about taking or not taking these products.

Everyone? Everyone seems to be dwindling these days. I don't see many people trying to con others into believing their injection site will be magnetic (lie) or that they will start beaconing 5G (lie) these days unlike in the beginning. Remember that? I remember it.

And not it wasn't a personal choice for many people as they were coerced, pressured, intimidated, and even threatened with dismissal by their employers.

That doesn't make the vaccines unsafe. You can quit any job at any time, as many did. You can't blame me if you didn't have the courage to stand up for your convictions.

Stop engaging in vaccine apologetics and denialism of reality.

How am I still alive after 5 doses? Oh no, there I go, exploding with 5G waves. Death is imminent.. Oh wait no it's not.

What reality? Your reality? Q anon reality? Exactly what reality is that? Do enlighten me with these facts you profess to have.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

Experimental and untested

Nah, almost 13 billion doses have been given worldwide. That seems to be the opposite of untested.

Your argument lacks merits and evidence unless you know the short, medium and long term effects of these products or the benefit to risk ratio for all age groups

And you do?

First it was magnetism in the injection site - LIE
Then it was 5G - LIE
Then I was going to drop dead in 6 months - LIE

Every anti argument has fleshed out to be false or a complete lie.

The true believers keep doubling down though.

I was wrong, I thought the anti-vaxxers were a step ahead of the "Trump will be indicted any time now!!!!" crowd. I was wrong. They are worse, and definitely more gullible.

This is the most failed medical product in history just as Dr Malhotra and Professor Levi have said.

I guess they got my personal physician who I have seen for 45 years and I bowl with on a regular basis. The guy I played in the Little League with must be in on it too.

For every name you produce, 1000+ can be found saying the opposite. However well informed, those are just opinions. I don't need opinions, I have reality on the ground. The reality is after 5 shots I am A-OK. My adult daughters? Fine. Mrs. Burns? Still ticking.

I know two unvaccinated people that have died directly from COVID. I know precisely ZERO that died from the vaccine or under suspicious circumstances.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

Here, I fixed it:

99% of your argument is entirely fabricated and ideology vs. fact based. People were so throughly duped into paying attention to something totally irrelevant and they don't want to admit it.

Still here...more than a year later and counting.

"Just wait" they say

They sound like the folks waiting for Trump's "imminent indictment" to me....... you are going to be waiting a long time.

The vaccine did its job. If the pandemic gets bad again, I'll get #6. Until and unless that happens, I'm satisfied with the results I got from the first 5. No harm no foul

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Asmodeus3

Debunking obviously disproven myths about vaccines equates to being an apologist? You have one warped sense of reality my friend.

You are mistaken if you think that everyone here is trying to convince others about taking or not taking these products.

Everyone? Everyone seems to be dwindling these days. I don't see many people trying to con others into believing their injection site will be magnetic (lie) or that they will start beaconing 5G (lie) these days unlike in the beginning. Remember that? I remember it.

And not it wasn't a personal choice for many people as they were coerced, pressured, intimidated, and even threatened with dismissal by their employers.

That doesn't make the vaccines unsafe. You can quit any job at any time, as many did. You can't blame me if you didn't have the courage to stand up for your convictions.

Stop engaging in vaccine apologetics and denialism of reality.

How am I still alive after 5 doses? Oh no, there I go, exploding with 5G waves. Death is imminent.. Oh wait no it's not.

What reality? Your reality? Q anon reality? Exactly what reality is that? Do enlighten me with these facts you profess to have.

You should stop the vaccine apologetics and the denialism of reality.

The 'vaccines' were not proven to be safe and effective although they were distributed in the market as if they were safe and effective.

In due course they were shown to cause harm and deaths.

You claimed that it was a personal choice but that's an unsubstantiated assertion. People were corrected and pressured, intimidated or even threatened with dismissal. That's not science or medicine but quackery.

And no you are mistaken as I wasn't naive or stupid to get myself injected with the junk by Pfizer and Moderna.

You had 5 shots? That's your problem. You can have as many as you want nobody will prevent you. Others were pressured to get injected and that's where the problem is. Other got injected and either were harmed or died.

Being alone after 5 shots is no proof that these products are safe and effective. And most of us are alive after having been infected by SARS-CoV-2. This doesn't imply the virus didn't kill anyone.

Your arguments are nonsensical

the vaccine apologetics