The Myth of Herd Immunity to SARS-CoV-2

a reply to: strongfp

Do we have vaccines for the other human coronaviruses? Can you name them?

a reply to: Asmodeus3

Well, man didnt get to this stage of history without making bold moves and trying new things. The ethics side of it all always comes after, that's a harsh reality of life that I learned in my journey. I might sound cold for telling it how it is, but nothing is perfect.

This use of mRNA technology may have done some harm to people, but so did other vaccines before. And the technology of mRNA isn't just bound to what it was used against covid it was experimented on flu, zika viruses, and even cancer.
What I'm saying is, everything starts somewhere, but even these vaccines whether mRNA or not have a long history, they didn't just pop up out of no where like in the movies.

jbiomedsci.biomedcentral.com...

a reply to: strongfp

Difference being that any time in the past if a vaccine was injuring people, they pulled it back to the drawing board...

The current situation is:" We don't GAF if it's hurting or killing people, we're going to continue to dispense it anyway." Big difference.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Asmodeus3

Well, man didnt get to this stage of history without making bold moves and trying new things. The ethics side of it all always comes after, that's a harsh reality of life that I learned in my journey. I might sound cold for telling it how it is, but nothing is perfect.

This use of mRNA technology may have done some harm to people, but so did other vaccines before. And the technology of mRNA isn't just bound to what it was used against covid it was experimented on flu, zika viruses, and even cancer.
What I'm saying is, everything starts somewhere, but even these vaccines whether mRNA or not have a long history, they didn't just pop up out of no where like in the movies.

jbiomedsci.biomedcentral.com...

Still there are no other vaccines for any human coronaviruses and the only vaccine approved under political and financial pressures are the Covid-19 vaccines for which we know nothing about and for which safety and effectiveness has not been established and in addition they are known to cause serious adverse reactions and death.

It seems to me it's time for the mRNA vaccines to be pulled out of the market just as the Astrazeneca vaccine was pulled out of the market.

Vaccines don't start in the form of mass and mandatory mandates and they don't establish themselves through coercion, pressure, intimidation, blackmailing, and threats of dismissal.

To remind you again there are no approved mRNA vaccines for any other communicable diseases.

a reply to: MaxxAction

There's not enough people getting harmed by the vaccines to justify just pulling the plug completely. And at this point no one is being forced to take them anymore we know to just scale back and let people decide on their own.

The whole pandemic response was botched and poorly conducted by most places that we know, at this point we just hope that with our massive ability to store information we don't make the same mistake in the future because another pandemic will come one day.

When I started looking into how the Spanish flu was responded with I hedged my bets that people would react the same way with covid and I was right, even the response to vaccines, mask wearing everything. It seemed like we had mass amnesia on what happened back then and tried it again. Human psychology doesn't change.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: MaxxAction

There's not enough people getting harmed by the vaccines to justify just pulling the plug completely. And at this point no one is being forced to take them anymore we know to just scale back and let people decide on their own.

The whole pandemic response was botched and poorly conducted by most places that we know, at this point we just hope that with our massive ability to store information we don't make the same mistake in the future because another pandemic will come one day.

When I started looking into how the Spanish flu was responded with I hedged my bets that people would react the same way with covid and I was right, even the response to vaccines, mask wearing everything. It seemed like we had mass amnesia on what happened back then and tried it again. Human psychology doesn't change.

Really how do you know this?!
Not enough people have been harmed?

The Astrazeneca vaccine has been withdrawn from the market for causing bloods clots and deaths. It seems benign in comparison to the mRNA vaccines.

As before

Has the safety and effectiveness of these vaccines been established?

Do you know the short, medium, and long term effects of these products? The benefit to risk ratio in all age groups?

Can the vaccines stop transmission and infection? Can they be used so herd immunity can be achieved?

The answer to all the above questions is NO. And yes it takes years and not a few months for the clinical phase trials to be completed.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

You're right they usually don't, but pandemics also historically don't spread as fast as covid did. In less than a year it spread to pretty much every nation that had regular travel, or high tourist traffic.

It's an aggressive virus, and during its height it was wiping out thousands of people a day and swamping hospitals.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

It was pulled from some markets, not all.

The astrazeneca vaccine is the second most used in the world...

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Asmodeus3

You're right they usually don't, but pandemics also historically don't spread as fast as covid did. In less than a year it spread to pretty much every nation that had regular travel, or high tourist traffic.

It's an aggressive virus, and during its height it was wiping out thousands of people a day and swamping hospitals.

This is a virus with a very small infection fatality rate of approximately 0.15%

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Estimations were made long before the vaccines came out by epidemiologists at Stanford.

It isn't an aggressive virus as you said. It causes mild disease or no disease to most people and the global survival rate (prior) to vaccination was 99.85%. It means that out of 10,000 infections 15 individuals will die who are mainly in the elderly and clinically vulnerable groups.

But it seems that the state and MSM propaganda did a very good job presenting Covid-19 as the Spanish Flu...

One has an IFR of 0.15% as linked above and the other had an IFR of 10%

There is precedence in relation to coronavirus pandemics. In 1889-1890 what is known as the Russian 'Flu'Pandemic was most likely caused by human coronavirus OC43 which had similar symptoms, affected similar groups, and decayed after 3 years or a little more. In our days is causing common colds HCov-OC43

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Asmodeus3

It was pulled from some markets, not all.

The astrazeneca vaccine is the second most used in the world...

It is gone.

The UK that manufactures them don't create them anymore. And the other countries stopped the roll out. It's ok the news for several months.

In a few words: Vaccine not safe and effective
Hence: Cancelled!!

a reply to: Asmodeus3

Really?

www.gov.uk...

I also find the 99.85% survival rate hard to believe, in Peru for example they had a 4%+ mortality rate.
At this point the question isn't how deadly covid is initially its the long term health effects of the billions that were infected with the virus and survived. I made that statement clear earlier in this thread.

a reply to: strongfp

Were these vaccines released under the emergency use authorization act or not? That means they are still experimental, not proven ready for public use. They decided to roll the dice and you are the one they are gambling with. Go ahead and try to prove me wrong, you can't.

a reply to: underpass61

Which act? I live in Canada and our health organizations approved them, not our government. Our government simply footed the bill for them.

Here in the U.S. they were'nt (and still aren't) approved for public use. The EUA allows their use use while releasing pharma from any liability for deaths or injuries.

Sorry but that's not a ride I am willing to get on.

FDA.gov

a reply to: underpass61

The FDA approved it for public use...

a reply to: strongfp

Have you looked at VAERS lately??

33k dead attributed to the Covid vaccines. Drugs and vaccines have been pulled in the past for 5 deaths.

a reply to: strongfp

They AUTHORIZED EMERGENCY USE - not the same as approval.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Asmodeus3

Really?

www.gov.uk...

I also find the 99.85% survival rate hard to believe, in Peru for example they had a 4%+ mortality rate.
At this point the question isn't how deadly covid is initially its the long term health effects of the billions that were infected with the virus and survived. I made that statement clear earlier in this thread.

It's because you don't understand the statistics and what infection fatality rate means. But let me repeat it for you in case tit have missed it as I have already posted it several times. If you have been indoctrinated well enough you can believe what you want but it doesn't change the fact

Infection fatality rate of Covid-19= 0.15%

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Conclusions: All systematic evaluations of seroprevalence data converge that SARS-CoV-2 infection is widely spread globally. Acknowledging residual uncertainties, the available evidence suggests average global IFR of ~0.15% and ~1.5-2.0 billion infections by February 2021 with substantial differences in IFR and in infection spread across continents, countries and locations.

This is well known long time before the vaccines were rolled out.

At a global level the infection fatality rate is about 0.15% prior to vaccinations rolled out. It means that if you do simple arithmetic it gives you a survival rate of about 99.85%

In comparison the Spanish Flu had an infection fatality rate of 10%

Make sure you don't confuse the infection fatality rate with case fatality rate or assume that every country has the same infection fatality rate. But these matters have already been discussed.

a reply to: MaxxAction

As opposed to the millions dead from covid itself? What's your point?

a reply to: Asmodeus3

IFR is a projection model, it's not the same as the CFR, WHICH WAS MUCH HIGHER, than the projected fatality rate. As case in point already 4%+ of people in peru who contracted covid died. That's the actual number.

People are dying of this virus. Millions died, what are you trying to prove?