Russia Ukraine Update Thread - part 3

a reply to: paraphi

My point is that we don't have the moral high ground when it's said that Russia has invaded a sovereign country. We do it when it suits us.

Also I have no regard for those foreign despots that rule ME countries. I'd happily see them being hung for their crimes against humanity. I'd also include the likes of Bush and co.

Regarding Russia, it is alien to me. There is nothing I like about Putin or the system of government. I condemn all of it but I also condemn what we have done and continue to do on the world stage. There are no good actors. All the fingers pointing at Russia should first of all look in the mirror.

Russia was never going to accept an American puppet government in Ukraine. I'm sure the American government knew that and have achieved their most desirable outcome. There are some that say well that's up to Ukraine. Fair enough but the insidious hand of the US brought about the coup in the first place. Back in the day these things were never disclosed until years later, it's different nowadays.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
We share nothing at all with the entity currently known as Ukraine. Nothing. Nothing at all. I expect you've been watching a few too many World at War documentaries.

Sigh. You really need to consider a less narrow view. The whole of Europe, including Russia and all the lands occupied by the Russian Empire that was, is part of the history of the UK. Going back - formally - around 500 years.

We are not going to agree on this. You take a view that Ukraine in not the business of the UK. I take a contrary view. You seem to think Russia invading a sovereign neighbour and acting like an imperial power of old is OK, yet the UK getting involved to help the victim is "neocolonial". I take the view that Russian imperialism must not be allowed to succeed.

Nope that's total revisionist BS, we as British people have absolutely no links whatsoever with the entity we know at the present as Ukraine. No cultural links, no linguistic links, no religious links with the Orthodox world, no Imperial links, no links through having developed in the Roman derived world. Maybe a few ethnic links post WW2 with the masses of ex SS and other military war criminal Ukrainians who were allowed into Britain and go unpunished for their horrendous genocidal crimes. What joy that is and a conspiracy in itself The only link I can see is the Crimean War, a similar British neo colonial meddling in the affairs of a region that was and still is non of our business whatsoever.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

So now WWII was all our fault?

Sorry but your self-hatred is stomach turning.

Actually it wasn't the UK or even the USA that sought the exceptionally punitive terms of The Treaty of Versailles and other subsequent Agreements, it was The French. If you want to direct your bile at anyone regarding that it should be aimed in their direction.

But none of that excused Hitler's actions and certainly didn't justify his dreams of Lebensraum or a Third Reich placing the whole of Europe under Germany's control.

Colonial theft?
So it was wrong to take off Germany what they had wrongfully taken off native people?
And that's your defence for neo-colonialism?

Actually Hitler and other senior Nazi's cared little for the return of Germany's former colonies, it was a policy pursued by one man for the sole aim of what he thought would ingratiate him even further to Hitler; Ribbentrop.

You say 'that's history'.
Well so is Russia's former occupation and governance of Ukraine.
Things have moved on - with Russia's explicit permission and guarantee to respect Ukraine sovereignty and borders - and like many new and young countries Ukraine was seeking to find its feet and national identity and direction.

Now that Russia is continuing its established practice under Putin of land grabs and neo-colonialism by means of military intimidation, economic subterfuge, provocation, terrorising and other duplicitous means you advocate Appeasing him further.

You may feel comfortable cowering down and bending over to a bully.
You may feel its ok to turn one's back on someone you promised to support.
You may feel its right to ignore the death, destruction and misery that has been caused solely to further one man's dream of a Greater Russia and his own personal glorification.

I don't.

www.nbcnews.com...

17 killed, many injured in Russian attack on civilians in a market.

Video of the actual strike.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Using your rationale we should not have intervened when Hitler invaded Poland and should have carried on appeasing him.

That's history FB. While at the same time the unbelievably bad treatment of Weimar by Britain and its allies actually led to war long term. The attack on Poland was inevitable following (in the eyes of the new experiment called Germany) an unjust post WW1 re-drawing of boundaries and insane reparations plus colonial theft.

If Putin conquers Ukraine --- Gaod forbid --- do you really think he's going to stop waging his imperialistic tendencies on other countries as well?

I think not.... so, it's time to nip that crazy bastard in the butt, while we still have the chance.
______________________________________________________________________________

Erno

6 September Update

Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations in the Bakhmut and western Zaporizhia Oblast directions and have made gains in western Zaporizhia Oblast as of September 6. Geolocated footage shows that Ukrainian forces have advanced along the trench line west of Verbove (about 20km southeast of Orikhiv), and the Ukrainian General Staff stated that Ukrainian forces achieved unspecified successes in the Robotyne—Novoprokopivka direction south of Orikhiv.

Ukrainian officials reported that Russian forces launched seven Kh-101, Kh-555, and Kh-55 air-launched cruise missiles from aircraft operating out of Engels airbase in Saratov Oblast; one Iskander-M ballistic missile; and 25 Shahed 136/131 drones from the Primorsko-Akhtarsk direction. Ukrainian air defenses shot down all eight missiles and 15 drones.

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken announced an additional $175 million military assistance package for Ukraine during an unannounced visit to Kyiv on September 6. The package includes air defense equipment, artillery rounds, and anti-tank weapons.

Russian forces conducted offensive operations along the Kupyansk-Svatove-Kreminna line, near Bakhmut, along the Avdiivka-Donestk City line, and in western Zaporizhia Oblast and advanced in some areas on September 6.

More at URL above.

Cheers

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

So now WWII was all our fault?

Sorry but your self-hatred is stomach turning.


You may feel comfortable cowering down and bending over to a bully.
You may feel its ok to turn one's back on someone you promised to support.
You may feel its right to ignore the death, destruction and misery that has been caused solely to further one man's dream of a Greater Russia and his own personal glorification.

I don't.

So Freeborn you now resort to labels such as "self-hatred" which is the lowest form of communication. I certainly have non of this. I will ignore such name calling as it is infant like in nature and the lowest form of argument. All I do is look at this cluster mess in the FSU from the angle of an independent observer. One who is not swayed by the MSM or generational state mandated brain washing by Westminster of anything Russian.

I want no taxes to go funding this FSU Suez type moment in sorting out their own internal affairs. I want non of our special forces over there to be wounded or killed. I want my electricity bills, gas bills, heating bills, food bills, to go back to normal levels. I want no part or involvement in warfare, especially when it has no bearing on my life whatsoever. Russia is no real threat to us, heck their forces cant even take the four annexed provinces, any argument that they are going to make it to Germany, or even here don't make me laugh. Russia is no threat to us, I can't bear all this war mongering by jingoistic posters and the criminal injection by the West of finance, armaments, observational advice and intelligence, when it just adds to the thousands and thousands of Slav's being killed every week. Totally non of our business, this is an internal Slav FSU dispute and completely and utterly non of our business whatsoever.

originally posted by: Erno86

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Using your rationale we should not have intervened when Hitler invaded Poland and should have carried on appeasing him.

That's history FB. While at the same time the unbelievably bad treatment of Weimar by Britain and its allies actually led to war long term. The attack on Poland was inevitable following (in the eyes of the new experiment called Germany) an unjust post WW1 re-drawing of boundaries and insane reparations plus colonial theft.

If Putin conquers Ukraine --- Gaod forbid --- do you really think he's going to stop waging his imperialistic tendencies on other countries as well?

I think not.... so, it's time to nip that crazy bastard in the butt, while we still have the chance.
______________________________________________________________________________

Erno

I have no idea whatsoever Erno. Eastern Europe and the Balkans will always be a tinder box. Too many religions, to many languages, too much power play by the great powers, too much difference between the Roman derived west and the people from the east. Regardless of which it is non of our business whatsoever. If they want to fight, let them do it, like Paki's and Indian's, the Korea's, the Sudanese or Eritrean's, the list is endless. Just leave us out of it. The belief that Putin is somehow going to manage to take it to us the biggest nonsense ever believed by many. He can't even take the so desired Donbas. Honestly, whatever happens over there in a land far far away and no of our business, I'll sleep fine tonight as it has no influence of our lives whatsoever once things are ironed out in this internal Slav FSU Suez type moment.

On a lighter note Orbs forever Erno x

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

So Freeborn you now resort to labels such as "self-hatred" which is the lowest form of communication.

Oh, I can get much lower if I wanted, I assure you my friend, you have absolutely no idea of what I am capable of.

I don't like insulting you, over the years I think we've built up a bit of a rapport and I usually respect your opinions even when I disagree with them.
You make me laugh at times - something I always welcome - and you're not afraid to voice your opinion, an admirable quality in my book.

But recently you seem to be taking every opportunity to criticise the UK, its people, its history and even its customs.
That is by definition; self-hatred.

And some of the arguments you have used lately to support your views are what at best can be described as lame, inaccurate and at times contradictory.

Those criticisms are directed at your arguments, opinions and reasonings, certainly not you personally.

All I do is look at this cluster mess in the FSU from the angle of an independent observer. One who is not swayed by the MSM or generational state mandated brain washing by Westminster of anything Russian.

Yet by saying this you are quite clearly implying that you can somehow see things more objectively than those of us who oppose Putin's invasion and that we, or more specifically I, am brainwashed by MSM and those #s in Westminster.
That you are more enlightened than us, the sheeple.
That's utter bollocks.....and you know it is.

I could go on but I really don't want to upset you. You seem a tadge sensitive at the moment which is most unlike you.
Smoke a fat one, have a couple of cold one's.

I'd still go for a few beers with you, hopefully some time....despite disagreeing with you on this.

a reply to: Freeborn

Yes and I'd still go for beers too FB. I just see things the way they are from both perspectives including the build up pre 2014 to the Russian intervention maybe even invasion of what is a sovereign country.

At the same time I really can't understand the view that I run down the nation. I stand by the view that things are falling apart in this isle, maybe it's just the way society everywhere is evolving rather than something planned, looking back at the good old days, yet things are falling apart. Anybody can see it, try to drive on our roads, the rough sleepers the smack heads, the city centres, horrendous modern music 'misery muics' Simon Cowell sponsored crap, rubbish dumped everwhere, yobs and their violence, invasion of our shores by 'asylum' fakers who ironically come here knowing they can get hobs as there is a section of society that believes some work is beneath them, the unbelievable corruption everywhere right up to the top. The red tape in doing anything these days, the bills, licences for everything, the taxes, the price of a pint, lunatics on the road driving at you and people in supermarkets who years ago would push their trollies and move out of your way as one did the same, now they drive their trollies at you just like the lunatics on the road. Everything above is fact, totally undeniable.

I love the nation of my birth, proud of my Norman heritage, have travelled far and wide and nothing comes close to it bar maybe RSA and Namibia but that's another world. I'd take up arms any time to defend Britain if we were in danger, wouldn't think twice about it. There's much wrong with modern Britain yet it's the same worldwide with the decline of the west and its economic dominance. I even believe our Empire was and is in its current form the Commonwealth a force for good. We gave the world so much. I love Britain FB

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
www.nbcnews.com...

17 killed, many injured in Russian attack on civilians in a market.

Video of the actual strike.

Apparently theres some indications that perhaps it was a Ukrainian missile that malfunctioned ... Not Russian



Julian Röpcke on Twitter

a reply to: Blowback

If that pro-Kremlin stooge Alex Christoforou tries to make out it wasn't Russia, then it must be the truth.

a reply to: Blowback

Could you post a summary of that video, please?

What sort of Ukrainian missile is it supposed to be?

Ta.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Blowback

Could you post a summary of that video, please?

What sort of Ukrainian missile is it supposed to be?

Ta.

It's pro-Kremlin bullctrap Carp.

Media company that Alex Christoforou owns is just a moutpiece for Putin. And suprise surprise guess where he went to school ?

Here you can read about it.

The Duran website is part of DRN Media PLC, a company registered in Cyprus. It publishes conspiracy theories, and pro-Russian content.

vsquare.org...

a reply to: alldaylong

I'm shocked. Shocked I am.

Shome mishtake, shurely?

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

I'll see Freeborn' s self hatred and raise you with hand wringing self loathing about perceived wrongs in the depths of past history which have no relevance to the War in Ukraine.

Come on, man?

Let's get back to those Orb motherships, eh?

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

The fact that any of us participate in a thread that effectively has nothing to do with us whatsoever is baffling. Certainly time to get back to the orbs, motherships and flaming flying logs

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

That's the spirit, old friend.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

You mean Putin and the Russians are lying to us ??

What is this world coming too ...... !!

7 September Update

Ukrainian forces continued offensive operations near Bakhmut and in western Zaporizhia Oblast on September 7 and made further gains on both sectors of the front. Geolocated footage published on September 7 indicates that Ukrainian forces have made further advances northwest of Verbove (18km southwest of Orikhiv) in western Zaporizhia Oblast.

Russian forces conducted another large-scale Shahed-136/131 drone attack against Sumy and Odesa oblasts overnight on September 6-7. Ukrainian Air Force Command stated that Russia launched 33 Shaheds in several groups from the northern, southeastern, and southern directions, predominantly aimed at grain infrastructure in Odesa Oblast, and that Ukrainian forces destroyed 25 of the drones.

Moscow Oblast authorities detained the commander of the 1st Special Purpose Air and Missile Defense Army on bribery and corruption charges amidst continued and escalating drone attacks on Moscow. Russian media reported on September 7 that the Moscow Garrison Military Court detained Major General Konstantin Ogienko for bribery and noted that 4th Air Defense Division Commander Major General Dmitry Belatsky organized the allocation of state defense property to an unnamed civilian organization in collusion with Ogienko.

Russian forces continued offensive operations along the Kupyansk-Svatove-Kreminna line, in the Bakhmut direction, along the Avdiivka-Donetsk City line, and in the Donetsk-Zaporizhia Oblast border area but did not make any confirmed advances on September 7.

More at URL above.

Cheers