Russia Ukraine Update Thread - part 3

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
Oil hits $90 per barrel as Saudi Arabia and Russia extend production cuts; UK business activity falls – business live

"Oil hits $90/barrel as Saudi Arabia and Russia extends cuts
The oil price has hit its highest level of the year, as Saudi Arabia and Russia announce they will extend their voluntary production cuts until December.

Brent crude is up 1.6% at $90.40 per barrel, the highest level since last November."

"Russia will extend its voluntary reduction in oil exports by 300,000 barrels per day (bpd) until the end of the year “to maintain stability and balance” on oil markets, Deputy Prime Minister Alexander Novak said in a statement today.

Rising oil prices will alarm central bankers, as they try to battle inflation, and could push up the cost of fuel higher, above the highs seen this week" www.theguardian.com...

Funny, in an earlier post you said whats going on is none of our business, then, 2 posts later explain how it is our business/interest.

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
Oil hits $90 per barrel as Saudi Arabia and Russia extend production cuts; UK business activity falls – business live

"Oil hits $90/barrel as Saudi Arabia and Russia extends cuts
The oil price has hit its highest level of the year, as Saudi Arabia and Russia announce they will extend their voluntary production cuts until December.

Brent crude is up 1.6% at $90.40 per barrel, the highest level since last November."

"Russia will extend its voluntary reduction in oil exports by 300,000 barrels per day (bpd) until the end of the year “to maintain stability and balance” on oil markets, Deputy Prime Minister Alexander Novak said in a statement today.

Rising oil prices will alarm central bankers, as they try to battle inflation, and could push up the cost of fuel higher, above the highs seen this week" www.theguardian.com...

Funny, in an earlier post you said whats going on is none of our business, then, 2 posts later explain how it is our business/interest.

Duh? If 'we' or at least our Foreign Office and secret services plus MIC had not set itself upon taking Ukraine away from Russia's orbit, international pressures on oil, gas would be far less. British indeed western meddling in the affairs of the FSU and determined dismemberment of that region has led to where we are today.

originally posted by: paraphi
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

I think Ukraine, and Russia, is part of my history in the UK. Both a past history going back several hundred years, and a future history yet to be written. You cannot escape history, and you cannot constrain what nations want to do. If Ukraine wants to become part of the civilised West, then Russia should not be allowed to stop them.

Ukraine part of Paraphi's history? Lol I have no idea how you span that one but hey ho, everyone deserves their own opinion, no matter how bizarre it might be.

Places like India, RSA, Canada, USA, France, the list is many and each of these countries has a connection in some way with us, through Empire, war, culture, ethnicity, religion, language, shared border or coastline, political system. Non of this applies to Ukraine. We have no links to them whatsoever. In past times also the entity of Ukraine as an independent state never existed. It is an invention and a bad one at that.

We share nothing at all with the entity currently known as Ukraine. Nothing. Nothing at all. I expect you've been watching a few too many World at War documentaries.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

So, Russia wanting to take Ukraine back into Russia's orbit has not registered with your navel gazing hand wringing anti Brit World view?

Sad, mate.

5 September Update

Ukrainian forces continue to advance in western Zaporizhia Oblast. Geolocated footage posted on September 5 shows Russian forces striking Ukrainian positions northwest and west of Robotyne, indicating that Ukrainian forces have advanced into an area near the settlement that Russian forces previously claimed to control.

The Ukrainian Security Service (SBU) reportedly attempted to assassinate a Russian occupation official in occupied Luhansk Oblast on September 5. (Additional info not in quoted source: Target was Major-General Yuri Afanasevskii).

Russian forces conducted offensive operations along the Kupyansk-Svatove-Kreminna line, near Bakhmut, along the Avdiivka-Donetsk City line, in the western Donetsk-eastern Zaporizhia Oblast border area, and in western Zaporizhia Oblast and advanced in some areas on September 5.

More at URL above.

Cheers

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
We share nothing at all with the entity currently known as Ukraine. Nothing. Nothing at all. I expect you've been watching a few too many World at War documentaries.

Sigh. You really need to consider a less narrow view. The whole of Europe, including Russia and all the lands occupied by the Russian Empire that was, is part of the history of the UK. Going back - formally - around 500 years.

We are not going to agree on this. You take a view that Ukraine in not the business of the UK. I take a contrary view. You seem to think Russia invading a sovereign neighbour and acting like an imperial power of old is OK, yet the UK getting involved to help the victim is "neocolonial". I take the view that Russian imperialism must not be allowed to succeed.

a reply to: paraphi

How about we send some weapons to Syria? It is a sovereign country being illegally occupied by an invading country and doesn't have the firepower to kick them out.
It would seem that American imperialism is ok.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Using your rationale we should not have intervened when Hitler invaded Poland and should have carried on appeasing him.

a reply to: midicon

How about we send some weapons to Syria?

No agreement was signed with Syria to come to their aid if they are a victim of an act of agression.

We did sign an agreement with Ukraine however.

originally posted by: midicon
a reply to: paraphi

How about we send some weapons to Syria? It is a sovereign country being illegally occupied by an invading country and doesn't have the firepower to kick them out.
It would seem that American imperialism is ok.

What? The US did not sign anything like a Budapest Memorandum with Syria. One provision of the Budapest Memorandum says that:

Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to the signatory if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".

The US, the UK and Ukraine are all signatories, and Russia has threatened to use nukes against Ukraine, so Ukraine is "a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used". Per the agreement, the US and UK are providing assistance to Ukraine.

There's no such agreement with Syria, right?

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Well you happily signed the Minsk Agreement with no intention of honouring it. Seems you can ignore when it suits. I was replying to this statement...

You seem to think Russia invading a sovereign neighbour and acting like an imperial power of old is OK, yet the UK getting involved to help the victim is "neocolonial". I take the view that Russian imperialism must not be allowed to succeed.

Not to mention installing an American puppet after implementing a coup...willfully blind to the West's shenanigans.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Using your rationale we should not have intervened when Hitler invaded Poland and should have carried on appeasing him.

Well, you didn't intervene when the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. You not only kept on appeasing them (like a good little poodle) but you actually joined them.

originally posted by: Quintilian

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Using your rationale we should not have intervened when Hitler invaded Poland and should have carried on appeasing him.

Well, you didn't intervene when the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. You not only kept on appeasing them (like a good little poodle) but you actually joined them.

Not to mention the West destroying Libya. Syria would have gone the same way if it had not been for Russia. Not that I'm a fan of Russia but for some to think we are the good guys is ironic.
The last thing the US wants is peace anywhere except where they hold dominance.

originally posted by: midicon
Not to mention the West destroying Libya. Syria would have gone the same way if it had not been for Russia.

Whataboutism. Libya and Syria are two completely different situations. Not even a tenuous relationship.

This discussion is about Russia's invasion and permanent occupation of a sovereign country, that was stable and developing democratically.

a reply to: Quintilian

Well, you didn't intervene when the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. You not only kept on appeasing them (like a good little poodle) but you actually joined them.

So you are making the assumption that I agreed with those actions.

And that has nothing to do with me comparing the actions and events of pre-WWII in Europe with orbs reasoning why we should continue appeasing Putin in his land grabs and invasion of Ukraine.

And regardless of whether I support UK et al policies in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria or not there were very different circumstances and reasonings behind them.
Whereas the similarities between Hitler's expansionism and desire for conquest are alarmingly similar to Putin's.

The fact that all you can rely on is 'What about Iraq' - or any other country you care to mention - shows you are running out of credible reasons to support Putin and an inability to judge the invasion of Ukraine on its own individual circumstances free from any sort of pre-determined bias.

a reply to: paraphi

Funny isn't it?

Whenever the morally superior mob gets shown they have no morals it becomes 'whatabouism' lol.

Meanwhile Syria, a sovereign country where the US is currently building yet another base illegally, is never relevant. Well it is relevant when the US claims the moral high ground.

The US is everywhere all over the globe running a protection racket. That's the reality.

a reply to: midicon

Syria was (and is) a revolting dictatorship, whose civil war overflowed its borders. The US involvement is well documented alongside the involvement of other Western allies. Similarly, the involvement of Russia is well documented, alongside the carpet bombing and the war crimes committed by Russia in support of the incumbent dictatorship.

But, you should start another discussion on this because talking about Syria, or Argentina (for that matter) is not relevant to this ongoing discussion about Russia's illegal war against Ukraine. Syria is not Ukraine.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

So, Russia wanting to take Ukraine back into Russia's orbit has not registered with your navel gazing hand wringing anti Brit World view?

Sad, mate.

The only sad thing is your below the belt comment. Fact is Ukraine is non of our business just like Iraq, just like Afghanistan. Perpetual sponsoring of neo colonial activities and war mongering only leads to the war being brought to our own soil 7/7 style etc. I don't always do the "anti Brit World view" indeed taking back the Falklands was a just war for sure. The ones that followed including our neo colonial sponsoring of war by the corrupt western sponsored coup derived regime in Kiev were and are non of our business whatsoever. Barbarossa v2

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Using your rationale we should not have intervened when Hitler invaded Poland and should have carried on appeasing him.

That's history FB. While at the same time the unbelievably bad treatment of Weimar by Britain and its allies actually led to war long term. The attack on Poland was inevitable following (in the eyes of the new experiment called Germany) an unjust post WW1 re-drawing of boundaries and insane reparations plus colonial theft.