Abortions - Why so bad?

a reply to: Grenade

To even suggest abortion is morally good is a reflection of your character.

This is where we disagree. I don't believe on demand abortion, pre-viability or in cases of fetal anomalies, is immoral. Of course it isn't when it comes to saving a woman's life or health.

The SCOTUS justices who ruled on Roe V Wade didn't think so either, but the SCOTUS judges who ruled on Dobbs, which overturned Roe, did think abortion was immoral. They used their supposed moral superiority to overturn the 50 year precedent and subsequent abortion law. If I'm a zealot for anything, it's keeping a religious moral superiority out of the law.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Annee

Agnostic would be the closest term. I believe in creation and think religion has some valuable metaphors and lessons. No man can articulate the language of creation or understand our reality.

Atheism is just as rigid and arrogant as any religion.

Atheism means one thing and one thing only: Lack of belief in a God.

Nothing else.

a reply to: Annee

Yes, as i said it's just the opposite of religion, a rigid belief system. It's a system of thought which leaves no room for creation or a supreme being. Anyone who claims to know for sure the nature of reality and excludes possibilities while insulting, degrading and cursing those who think differently from them are the very definition of a zealot.

You believe there is no God, despite that being a possibility. You discount the belief system of billions of people and favour your own belief without empathy or understanding for those who think differently.

Could there be a supreme being who manifested and created the universe? Could intelligence be the result of intelligent design? Of course it could, yet your beliefs leave no room to contemplate such an idea.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

On demand abortion for selfish reasons which include convenience and irresponsibly are however immoral.

Morality is the differentiation between good and bad and must be measured against standards. In order to have such standards you must believe there's a universal authority which sets them. As an atheist i'd love you to explain how thats possible and who sets your standards for moral behaviour. If your standards are set internally without a universal authority then that's not morality. You're simply doing whatever you feel like and projecting those feelings and opinions onto others like gospel.

People who don't worship God tend to worship themselves.

a reply to: Annee

Pot, meet the kettle.

I find it disturbing you've never condemned any of the racist bigotry peddled by Sanger.

a reply to: Grenade

Morality is the differentiation between good and bad and must be measured against standards.

Whose standards? Is premarital sex immoral? Is extramarital sex immoral? Is eating meat immoral? Is lying immoral?

In order to have such standards you must believe there's a universal authority which sets them.

BS! Moral standards are based on empathy and the survival of the species. Not on some mythical, invisible and contrary authority figure.

People who don't worship God tend to worship themselves.

That's illogical. There is no imperative to worship, PERIOD; admire, imitate and aspire to be like, sure. But "God" gives us no role model and nature is cruel and vicious.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Based on the survival of the species you say. How does abortion help that?

I suggest you research the concept of morality.

TBH i no longer am interested in conversing with either you or Annee. Apologies, but i'll never accept abortion as a morally good act, no matter the amount of excuses you two throw around. I find you both disgusting, so won't be engaging any further.

a reply to: Grenade

How does abortion help that?

A mother can only feed, clothe, nurture and raise so many children effectively. Also, if her own health is at risk, so is the health of all of her living children.

I suggest you research the concept of morality.

As if I haven't. But, where do you suggest people look for such research the Bible? Governments?

I find you both disgusting

I find you to be a shallow misogynist.

so won't be engaging any further.

Oh noes! Boo effing hoo!

a reply to: Sookiechacha

So you're the moral authority in this world?

Gotcha.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

I've fed clothed and nurtured my own children, providing far more care than either of their mothers. It's always about the woman in your eyes and yet i'm the misogynist.

Just because men have done you wrong and probably bailed to get away from your madness doesn't mean we're all the same.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Sookiechacha

So you're the moral authority in this world?

Gotcha.

Most of the world's governments have policies that agree with me and my sense of morality on the subject of abortion. For the past 50 years it was the legal standard in the USA. Most Americans still abide by that standard.

I've fed clothed and nurtured my own children, providing far more care than either of their mothers.

Making it all about yourself again, I see.

Before the advent of modern contraception and safe abortions, women's number one cause of death was pregnancy and childbirth. A woman can't keep having babies until it kills her, and expect the children she aleady has to thrive. That's why in hard times women have always turned to abortion and, unfortunately infanticide, which was far more prevalent than abortion.

imperiumromanum.pl...

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Annee

Pot, meet the kettle.

I find it disturbing you've never condemned any of the racist bigotry peddled by Sanger.

Have you read the real facts?

Apparently not.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Annee

Yes, as i said it's just the opposite of religion, a rigid belief system. It's a system of thought which leaves no room for creation or a supreme being. Anyone who claims to know for sure the nature of reality and excludes possibilities while insulting, degrading and cursing those who think differently from them are the very definition of a zealot.

You believe there is no God, despite that being a possibility. You discount the belief system of billions of people and favour your own belief without empathy or understanding for those who think differently.

Could there be a supreme being who manifested and created the universe? Could intelligence be the result of intelligent design? Of course it could, yet your beliefs leave no room to contemplate such an idea.

You're wrong.

Lack of belief in a God -- does not mean you can't have beliefs.

There are, of course, "hard" atheists that believe you are physical matter that lives then die -- and there's nothing more.

There are also Spiritual Atheists and everything in between.

Each atheist has their own Atheist Philosophy.

What Is a Spiritual Atheist?
A spiritual atheist is someone who, unlike a religious person, does not believe in any “God”. Instead, they believe in a higher consciousness that
cannot be represented as a physical being. They believe the universe governs itself through actions and intentions.

This spirit flows amongst us all and connects everyone and everything on every scale, from minor coincidences to major global changes. Spiritual atheists believe each person has a soul that should be tended to, and a hard to define spirit which flows amongst us, similar to the energy, but more personal and unique to the individual.

Spiritual atheists believe in ideas like Karma, which govern us through consequences equal to our actions. If you put good into the universe, you will have a good life in return. This contrasts with the religious idea that God decides our fate. www.learning-mind.com...

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Annee
. . . favour your own belief without empathy or understanding for those who think differently.

Have you read your own posts?

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
There is no imperative to worship, PERIOD; admire, imitate and aspire to be like, sure. But "God" gives us no role model and nature is cruel and vicious.

I had an epiphany when I first stepped completely out of the "God circle".

"I was in charge of me" -- everything I did and thought was fully on me. No "go to" guy to make it all better.

When you believe in God -- you live for God. You put your own life on hold and live in judgement of making decisions not to be punished by some "guy in the sky".

The religious live to die. It's all about the judgement after death.

No one fears death more than a God believer.

a reply to: Annee

How many times have I tried to find common ground with you, empathised with your opinion in this thread. Posts you’ve never replied to because you’re intent on being a stubborn old goat. You constantly ridicule religion and your cognitive bias is the perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. You read politicised propaganda and gobble it up then project yourself as some kind of intellectual behemoth. I’ll wager my academic qualifications dwarf anything you’ve ever achieved.

I can’t be assed with you anymore, your opinions on this forum are like a fart in a space suit. A bitter old woman entrenched in group think ideology without any consideration for anyone. Not to mention your defence of racists and bigots.

a reply to: Annee

Self praise is no praise at all.

a reply to: Annee

So I’m wrong that you have rigid beliefs, your proof is by providing an example of a rigid belief system with its own doctrine and ideology.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Annee

How many times have I tried to find common ground with you, . . .

HA, LOL

You do not try to find common ground.