Abortions - Why so bad?

I can find nothing in the Bible relating to abortion, that is, anything Jesus would have guided us through. But there is 'thou shalt not kill'. But let's be real people, all countries have military ready to go and kill. How many of your United States and other countries still have the death penalty? People killing people seems to have always been the norm and will always continue to be.

“Do not judge, so that you will not be judged. For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get.” (Matthew 7:1-2)

originally posted by: rounda

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: rounda
a reply to: Annee

Approximately 30 hours after fertilization, a zygote produces two cells.

Which is more complex than the most basic definition of life, a single celled bacteria.

By all scientific reasoning, life starts at conception.

Good for you. Can't drink from a bottle.

LIVING CHILDREN need food, love, care, shelter, education, medical, and a lot more.

What does a bottle have to do with life?

That's a downright ridiculous argument. By that logic, premature babies who need to be fed through feeding tube or IV aren't living babies.

NO -- it's not.

It shows immediately need.

Not the potential of something months away.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Annee

Do you remember your life before you were born? Yeah, nothing. Same as if you'd never been born.

I am extremely happy I was not aborted. and so are most other people who are alive.

"Do you remember your life before you were born? Yeah, nothing. Same as if you'd never been born."

If you hadn't been born, you would never have known anything. It would not have mattered.

originally posted by: marsend
I cannot for the life of me see how it is any ones business including the various Gods that people prostrate to, what a woman, man and or a Dr decide to do about an unborn fetus. It astounds me when especially men get involved in this argument.

In Australia and New Zealand it is legal to have an abortion which is fantastic. I guess in the USA other than your primary industry the military you also have a prison system to feed, so you need to make everything you can illegal, got to keep the crime industry full with clients. Aborting a fetus in the right fashion is possibly better than more unwanted children running around. O my we have created such a clown world.

Thank you. Thank you.

You're country is fortunate they don't suffer from Fundamental Christianity Dominionism (politicizing a woman's body, among other things).

Dominionism is the theocratic idea that regardless of theological camp, means, or timetable, God has called conservative Christians to exercise dominion over society by taking control of political and cultural institutions. The term describes a broad tendency across a wide swath of American Christianity. People who embrace this idea are referred to as dominionists. Although Chip Berlet, then of Political Research Associates, and I defined and popularized the term for many in the 1990s2, in fact it had (along with the term dominion theology) been in use by both evangelical proponents and critics for many years.

politicalresearch.org...

However, watch out.

With the rise of Pentecostal and charismatic megachurches there’s a rational concern that a "literal" belief in the Bible has led to anti-science trolls, climate change denial and an anti-vax movement. But the endgame will be more serious if the trend continues to morph into a full USA-style of Christian Dominionism.

independentaustralia.net...

a reply to: quintessentone

Numbers 5:27

When he has made her drink the water, then it shall come about, if she has defiled herself and has been unfaithful to her husband, that the water which brings a curse will go into her and cause bitterness, and her abdomen will swell and her thigh will waste away, and the woman will become a curse among her people.

The "bitter water" was an abortifacient, a mixture of herbs and berries that would cause a miscarriage.

a reply to: Quadrivium

An individual human beings life begins at conception.

Maybe. If you squint real hard. But a fertilized egg is not an individual. An embryo is not an individual. A fetus is not an individual.

A newborn baby is an individual.

originally posted by: Annee
[But the endgame will be more serious if the trend continues to morph into a full USA-style of Christian Dominionism.

The most heinous governments of all time were atheist regimes. Stalin and Mao were by far the biggest killers of all time, all under the name of anti-religion. Your ideas have been tried before, they dont work.

originally posted by: Annee

If you hadn't been born, you would never have known anything. It would not have mattered.

With that same logic we will start killing infants up until 15-24 months because that's about when self-awareness begins.

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES
a reply to: quintessentone

Numbers 5:27

When he has made her drink the water, then it shall come about, if she has defiled herself and has been unfaithful to her husband, that the water which brings a curse will go into her and cause bitterness, and her abdomen will swell and her thigh will waste away, and the woman will become a curse among her people.

The "bitter water" was an abortifacient, a mixture of herbs and berries that would cause a miscarriage.

You are guessing, tell me the mixture or herbs and berries and I'll research their elements to make my own determination as to what this 'bitter water' was and what it's use was. He, her husband, "made" her drink the water to determine whether she was unfaithful or not - witch hunt - will she float? Sounds like a way to torture one's wife due to one's paranoia.

a reply to: quintessentone

Sure thing, yeah.

Let me hop in my time machine and I'll get back to you with the ingredients and preparation method.

I'll just be a moment.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

But a fertilized egg is not an individual.

Wrong.
“Fertilization is the process by which male and female haploid gametes (sperm and egg) unite to produce a genetically distinct individual.”- Signorelli et al., Kinases, CELL TISSUE RES. 349(3):765 (Mar. 20, 2012)

An embryo is not an individual.

Wrong.
“A zygote is the beginning of a new human being (i.e., an embryo).”- Keith L. Moore, The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2003. pp. 16, 2.

A fetus is not an individual.

WRONG!

A newborn baby is an individual.

Hey!!!
Congratulations, you got one right! Just goes to show that even a blind squirrel can find a nut every now and then.

a reply to: Quadrivium

Sigh....

When we speak of individual human beings, we're speaking of viable, sentient, independent individuals, that are no longer dependent of their host's body for survival.

Sure, each sperm is an individual [competitive] living organism, as is the ova it's searching for. Each cardiac cell is an specialized individual living organism.

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES
a reply to: quintessentone

Sure thing, yeah.

Let me hop in my time machine and I'll get back to you with the ingredients and preparation method.

I'll just be a moment.

Well, this information is what we need to know to make a rational judgement.

a reply to: quintessentone

It was probably a closely guarded secret known only to the priests to prevent women from aborting children of their own violition. You know, because women aren't allowed bodily autonomy and must fulfill their "purpose" and be submissive to Men.

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES
a reply to: quintessentone

It was probably a closely guarded secret known only to the priests to prevent women from aborting children of their own violition. You know, because women aren't allowed bodily autonomy and must fulfill their "purpose" and be submissive to Men.

Really, the woman's crazy husband seemed to get his hands on the formula easy enough. But, yeah, if it were really an abortion potion then they'd be writing about it in the Bible and there's nothing there, except for your one questionable example.

a reply to: quintessentone

There's nothing in the Bible about the Information Superhighway, yet here we are.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Quadrivium

Sigh....

When we speak of individual human beings, we're speaking of viable, sentient, independent individuals, that are no longer dependent of their host's body for survival.

Babies aren't self-aware until 15-24 months. Is it cool if we murder them? They won't be cognizant of their lack of existence.

One of the main problems I see is treating an abortion like its a day out shopping at the mall. These people should realize the gravity of the situation. I know many people who are still disturbed many years after from aborting their baby.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Annee
[But the endgame will be more serious if the trend continues to morph into a full USA-style of Christian Dominionism.

The most heinous governments of all time were atheist regimes.

There are discussion threads on this exact topic.

Take it there.

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES
a reply to: quintessentone

There's nothing in the Bible about the Information Superhighway, yet here we are.

OK I'm not biting that one.

originally posted by: Lysergic
So who convinced who after 16 pages?

Nobody?

Obviously, none of this... *waves vaguely at the broad spectrum of internet messaging platforms*... makes any difference whatsoever. Pick your side at the voting booths or don't. Everything else is just so much pretentious noise.

/thread

originally posted by: Tipulatedone
I suppose this question is mainly aimed at the American people as over here in the UK (Wales) no one seems to give a rat ass about it.

In the UK, we don't give a rat's arse about abortion because our approach has been properly debated, has an ethical dimension, and recognises both the rights of the woman and the rights of the fetus, who would become a child if born.

As far as I can see, the debate in the US over abortion is utterly polarised. It ranges from zero abortion, all the way through to infanticide. The politicians are incapable of debating the subject from a position of intelligent objectivity, and this rubs off on their supporters. Quite sad, really.