Missouri Allows Spanking in Classrooms

originally posted by: andy06shake

Smashing now you have established that there are "Sharia councils" in the UK that amount to religious law courts that hold no sway or carry any legal power in any of our courts of law in the land.

Somewhere along the way you lost total track to the point of our conversation. You suggested that America is backwards with under 18 marriages and that it was like some old Christian or Sharia law event of 40 year-olds marrying 16 year-olds, so you started this whole topic.

I said basically that is rich coming from a person who allows Sharia laws actually operate in the UK AND your marrying age is under 18 too. Now we were talking about marriages and wait for it....wait for it... Sharia law is about marriages as in that 40 year-old marrying that 16 year-old with Sharia law compelling her to do it, so yes they then make it official under UK marriage laws, but was setup and established though Sharia law.

So you were wrong about your suggestions with America and wrong about your own country, but you still want to double down...lol OK

I mean if you are a Muslim looking to divorce or for family counseling, that follows Sharia law, well they are your man.

But they are not going to mug you in the street or tell people where they can or cannot go that's for sure.

Again Sharia councils hold no sway and are simply religious courts.

Then why did you use Sharia law to bash America's system then? So are you suggesting that the Sharia council does not force younger Muslin (under 18) women to marry older men when marriage is a huge part as to what the council is all about?

As to no go zones, that is a term used for heavily populated Muslin areas that want to follow Sharia law and customs in their area. What this means is they expect people going into their area especially women to follow their rules and culture or you will be harassed or worst while to cops tend to stay away and let them do what they do. I never said UK laws were based on Sharia law as you seem to want to inflate this into, but even you now are agreeing there is 30+ Sharia law councils in the UK. You also need to understand that for a Muslin their religion is a massive part of their life and so if you are a 16 year-old woman and the council tells you to marry this old POS you do it just like you would do it in the old country.

a reply to: Xtrozero

That's a cracking big diatribe mate but you are still not showing any evidence of Sharia law no go zones here in the UK.

As to why i said "When did Missouri adopt Sharia law" well maybe because underage marriage and corporal punishment could be considered to be rather synonymous with Sharia law.

Child marriage is currently legal in 44 states (only Delaware, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, and Rhode Island have set the minimum age at 18 and eliminated all exceptions), and 20 U.S. states do not require any minimum age for marriage, with a parental or judicial waiver.

The point now is you suggested there is Sharia law no go zones in the UK yet fail to provide any sort of evidence to suggest where they are.

I mean its a nice attempt at defection same as your last 4 attempts, but your hitting the post and putting it over the crossbar every time because there are no no-go zones in the UK, people are free to go where ever they wish without fear of religious persecution.

I don't think you really understand what Sharia law councils constitute, aka a code, religious guidance/set of laws that some Muslims choose to follow, and not all Muslims at that.

It doesn't matter which religious denomination you choose to follow here in the UK any sort of religious law is superseded by the law of the land, and said law is the only law the citizens of the UK are required to abide by.

So again i ask where are these Sharia law no-go zones?

originally posted by: JAGStorm

Don’t jump to the conclusion that kids shouldn’t be punished, that’s not what any of us are saying. Of course there should be consequences for actions. Should those consequences be spankings? NO.
Study after study has proven this is not only NOT effective, it has long term negative consequences.

Once again you are suggesting that spanking is either routine, frequent and the only tool in the box for control. And you are wrong with all three. Your studies are also what has created this huge failure in the first place, KIDS ARE NOT FRAGILE period. Are you also against anything physical? How about boxing, MMA or jujitsu? What about kids fighting? Sports? etc etc.

originally posted by: andy06shake

That's a cracking big diatribe mate but you are still not showing any evidence of Sharia law no go zones here in the UK.

Whatever you win, even agreeing there is Sharia law... ShIt is getting boring. To be honest save your words I didn't make it past this line.

a reply to: Xtrozero

As long as Sharia law or anything reminiscent of such never prevails in our respective nations i would call that a win for both of us to be honest.

My "When did Missouri adopt Sharia law?" comment was said pretty much tongue-in-cheek Xtrozero.

I don't really think Sharia law prevails anywhere in the USA or in any state.

Just pointing out that hitting weans with bats and parental wavers that somehow allow child marriage to be a thing in 2022 is rather synonymous with the kind of ethos Sharia law encompasses.

originally posted by: andy06shake

Just pointing out that hitting weans with bats and parental wavers that somehow allow child marriage to be a thing in 2022 is rather synonymous with the kind of ethos Sharia law encompasses.

I'm for the 3 year limit to protect the one that turns 18 while the other is not yet, but ya if a 20 yearold much less a 30 40 went after my daughter at 15-17 I would have a strong talking to them and I'm 6'5" 280 so very strong talking just like you would with your daughter.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I can only hope the paddling includes teachers when they start with the grooming and all that other crap they are forcing on children.

a reply to: Xtrozero



Sounds about right.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Yes yes, Jim Bob Billy Jethro...

Nice way to mix yet another insult in there.

...did just fine in your family with a good spanking or two. We aren’t talking about that. We aren’t even talking about parents spanking their kids, we are talking about adults, mainly teachers doing so.

And no one here is talking about using a baseball bat across the head on a child either, but some are certainly insinuating they are. Hell, I've been openly called a child abuser... something that would not happen in reality without someone spilling a serious amount of blood. That is fighting talk; one might just as well take a swing at someone. That kind of thing has led to funerals around here.

But now your feelz are all hurt and stuffs because someone didn't understand you? Cry me a river. You're a little late to the party to be calling for restraint after unleashing the dogs of war.

The way I see it, you did something you were told not to do, in a culture you were not from, without even bothering to ask if what you were doing was acceptable. You got your butt tanned. Maybe it was harder than you thought was appropriate; maybe it was more humiliating than you wanted; maybe that teacher did go too far. But you (along with others) have turned that into hatred for anyone who tries to discipline a child and the result is that schools today are totally out of control.

And yet, even amid school shootings, grades falling like a rock, our schools being the laughing stock of third-world nations, and teachers retiring because they deserve hazard pay for working in a literal war zone, you still persist. "Oh! My butt was sore once!"

Yeah, cry me that river. While you're at it, grow up.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

The way I see it, you did something you were told not to do, in a culture you were not from, without even bothering to ask if what you were doing was acceptable. You got your butt tanned.

I’m an American, and my teacher was American. Yes we were in a different country but there was no language or cultural “misunderstanding”.
If you don’t know something is not acceptable why would you ask?
I was freaking 6 or 7 years old. That is the crap I’m talking about.
That absolutely 1000000% does not warrant a spanking, except in your delusion world.

Just remember do as you’re told, oh, and it doesn’t stop with spanking.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Yeah, over some friggin pretzels. Talk about a dumb reason to spank a kid.

Toooootally justified. /sarc

originally posted by: JAGStorm

I’m an American, and my teacher was American. Yes we were in a different country but there was no language or cultural “misunderstanding”.
If you don’t know something is not acceptable why would you ask?
I was freaking 6 or 7 years old. That is the crap I’m talking about.
That absolutely 1000000% does not warrant a spanking, except in your delusion world.

Just remember do as you’re told, oh, and it doesn’t stop with spanking.

You are constantly connecting a tool for correction with abuse and you need to differentiate between the two. Is putting a kid in a corner for a time out the same as tapping their hands to the chair and making them sit there for 8 hours? We can always go to some extreme in anything, right? I think a few of you should stop going to the extreme as you bases here for your argument. I would say that EVERYONE here is in 100% agreement if someone took paddling to some extreme they should be charged just like if someone taped a kid to a chair and left them there all day.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I would say that EVERYONE here is in 100% agreement if someone took paddling to some extreme they should be charged just like if someone taped a kid to a chair and left them there all day.

You may be listening but you aren’t hearing…
How many pages of examples do you need?

Paddling is a form of abuse. It is often used when unnecessary. We’ve given example over example.
Obviously the problem was much more widespread because most of the US post 1980’s did away with it in schools.
I posted examples of why mental health experts highly recommend other “more effective” means of punishment.

The bleeding hearts in this thread slay me. No wonder kids are wimps.

originally posted by: VierEyes
Getting away from corporal punishment is part of the reason we have so many problems with discipline today.

Do you have any links to anything that backs that up?

Or is it simply an opinion?

originally posted by: JAGStorm

You may be listening but you aren’t hearing…
How many pages of examples do you need?

Paddling is a form of abuse. It is often used when unnecessary. We’ve given example over example.
Obviously the problem was much more widespread because most of the US post 1980’s did away with it in schools.
I posted examples of why mental health experts highly recommend other “more effective” means of punishment.

I think you are confusing discipline with punishment. Discipline is long term correction, punishment is short term correction, but plays a role in discipline. Here is the big one as to what this topic is about Have predictable and clear consequences for breaking rules.

Please explain to me why our youth of today are so messed up with 30+ years of your kindred and gentler approach compared to the youth of yesteryears?

a reply to: Xtrozero

You are constantly connecting a tool for correction with abuse and you need to differentiate between the two.

She's never going to differentiate. One time when she was 6 or 7 she got paddled... one time. And because of that, she would let youth criminals roam the streets. I don't know if that is in her mind a way to "get even" or what, but it's become obvious that she doesn't care about any social consequences over it.

I even acknowledged that perhaps the teacher did go too far in my reply; no matter, she didn't even acknowledge I said so. It was wrong, To her mind it was criminal, it was wrong, it was dastardly, and I guess she might be happy if the teacher who spanked her was executed in front of a firing squad... maybe, if she was allowed to be the firing squad. She's even said she wished she could go back and slap that teacher.

I wonder if she would be one of those who tried to get in my face over disciplining my children when they were young.

This is the reason schools are failing, children are failing, youth violence is way up... we get things like this, where a pack of 14-year-old kids roaming the street at night killed a 73-year-old man just because they could. We get the Columbine shooting in 1999, where kids were out of control a mere 15 years or so after removing corporal punishment. We get kids bringing guns to school constantly. But hey, that's a small price to pay if it means getting back at someone for that paddling she got so many years ago.

This is even the same poster I agreed wholeheartedly with some pages back, when she suggested videotaping all school-enforced punishments to avoid abuse in the future. She never acknowledged that either... not good enough on second thought, I suppose. We have to destroy all discipline at any cost!

The next time a school shooting is reported, my attitude is going to be quite different. I have consistently been sympathetic in such threads to even those I disagreed with on the cause; any child being harmed is a horrendous tragedy. But now I see the truth... those are crocodile tears from others. They don't want the problem fixed. They don't really care except to virtue signal. They just want their unworkable utopia no matter who gets hurt, and dammit, they want it NOW!

I want them to grow up.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Oh yeah. Young people are out prowling and committing crimes because they weren't paddled. It has absolutely nothing to do with # parents who just go and let their kids do whatever they want.

You do know there are ways to discipline and guide teens without threatening to spank, whoop, or beat them.

Talk about slippery slope fallacies and extremes. You and several others in here have been going back and forth about either beating kids or just letting them roam around causing trouble.

We have these funny things called words. If you can't raise decent kids by explaining to them logically the cause and effects of things and how to treat people with respect without threatening or just whooping them because they didn't do something the right way then you've already failed as a parent.

Something tells me your kids would have been fine regardless of if you spanked them or not. You're an intelligent person.

But what I hear constantly from parents who spank their kids is something along the lines of "No matter what I do my kid just continues to act out."

Well hell, I wonder why. Especially when I've seen those parents some who used to be friends of mine just start screaming at their kid for being annoying and telling them if they don't stop their going to get their ass whooped.

Guess what happens? An embarrasing scene where the kid continues to act up, because the parents have failed to establish clear roles and behavior a big screaming fest occurs where the parent has the kid by an arm and is "spanking" the kid in front of everyone.

Then you've got a kid screaming, a parent who is either still pissed for whatever stupid problem, or a parent who is embarrassed because they couldn't handle their anger and frustration and lashed out.

These kids don't stop. They get used to getting "spanked." They can't talk to their parents without the parents getting pissy and threatening to "spank" them. So, they just do it anyways. They get better at not getting caught. They get better at lying. And the "spankings" don't stop.

So, what? Admit or ignore the parenting failure and disown the kid? Send the kid off to military school?

Or maybe, just maybe take the time to talk to the kid ask why they are being a little brat and teach them at an early age how to use their words and logically process their emotions before turning into a dumb hormonal teenager who was never taught how to deal with their emotions other than if they annoy someone that it could lead to a physical interaction. And that if someone does the same to them then fighting or "whooping" them is what is coming instead of not being emotionally immature people who resort to violence instead of words.

But I get it. It's all machismo. I'm used to it. My dad still tells me he can beat my ass and I can't help but laugh and wonder how a man respected by so many who don't know he abused me, my sister, and my mother physically and emotionally for years can be considered a good man when as soon as you say something he disagrees with he wants to ouff out his chest, raise his voice and threaten to end the conversation by stating he's going to beat someone's ass.

I have a hard time respecting anyone like that no matter how good they make themselves look in public, or church, or wherever.

It shows a lack of intelligence and maturity in my opinion.

I know several of my friends who have intelligent children before they were even in school, because they didn't shelter them or refrain from having important discussions with them, and none of them were ever "spanked."

Quite a few of the kids even say swear words, and as long as it's not directed towards someone in a hostile manner it's fine. They all know how to think things through, and what needs to be done when. These are mature, intelligent kids who act better than most adults I know.

Compared to the kids I know who get "spanked" all the time and their parents either don't know how, or refuse to talk to their kids are always getting on their parents nerves on purpose, getting in trouble at school on purpose, doing stuff they know they aren't supposed to be doing on purpose.

Why? Because they know their going to get "spanked" anyways just for existing and being a nuisance to their parents who'd rather just "spank" their kids and not sit down and show them a little bit of respect as well. Just enough to sit down with them and figure out what went wrong where.

I may not have any kids of my own, but I have a lot of friends who are single mothers and I've been sort of a stand in father figure for many children. As a male role model to these kids I've been able to sit down with them and just talk to them about what's going on, what they're dealing with, and just listening to them vent, and teaching them healthy ways to respond to stress and bullying and school, and just life in general.

I still remember the first time a friend's kid thanked me for listening to his problems. His mother would just tell him to quit complaining and deal with it. Nothing else. No discussions on how to deal with anything in a mature manner. Just a "spanking" and a "Go to your room and stay out of my sight."

His mother actually came up to me and thanked me and asked me what I did to get him to "act right."

I told her I simply listened and offered some advice.

I showed him some respect. Kids are people too. People who are new to the world and have to be taught how to deal with things and how to navigate through all the BS social constructs we have to live by. They have to be taught how to respect others and themselves. They should be taught to stick up for those less fortunate or weaker.

They shouldn't be taught that violence is the go-to answer for every little nuisance or frustration that comes their way and that violence is only to be used in self-defense or as a last resort.

"Spanking" them doesn't really do any of that.

If anything like my case it just showed me at a young age that my parents weren't mature enough or capable of raising kids, and shouldn't have had any at the age they did.

Just because people can have kids doesn't mean they should, and it definitely doesn't automatically mean they know how to raise children.

So, anyone in this thread defending "spanking" go right ahead. You may one day find yourself like my dad who has gone most of his life thinking he was a good parent and that his kids respect him just to find out you've been wrong about everything when your grown ass kid throws it all in your face and makes you eat your words when you can't "spank" them anymore.

a reply to: AutomateThis1v2

You're a lot of hot air.

a reply to: AutomateThis1v2

Oh yeah. Young people are out prowling and committing crimes because they weren't paddled. It has absolutely nothing to do with # parents who just go and let their kids do whatever they want.

"Letting them do whatever they want" is the exact definition of a lack of discipline.

Your whole post talks about setting boundaries, which is the crux of the argument, but it completely ignores what happens if those boundaries are breached. If there are no consequences for crossing a boundary, there is no boundary! Would a speed limit sign matter if there were no police allowed to write speeding tickets? No, it wouldn't... that speed limit is a boundary and without enforcement it means nothing.

Well hell, I wonder why. Especially when I've seen those parents some who used to be friends of mine just start screaming at their kid for being annoying and telling them if they don't stop their going to get their ass whooped.

But they don't get their ass whooped, and there is the problem. They crossed the boundary and nothing happened (except the parent coming down to their level and screaming at them... that's a child raising a child in itself). Threatening a child is the most useless thing any parent can do... it is an admission that they won't do what they are threatening to do.

I am going to repeat this one last time, since so many seem to have so much trouble with it: the threat of violence is a better deterrent than violence itself. Why, pray tell, is that so damn hard to grasp? If I want thieves to stay away from my home, I make sure as many people as possible know that I will shoot a thief on sight. That works a hell of a lot better than keeping quiet and shooting a thief. The one downside of that is that, should a thief show up in the middle of the night, I have to shoot them. If I don't, it was all an empty threat and no other thieves will believe it; if I do, other thieves will hear about it and realize it's not a threat... it's a promise I will keep.

The same principle works with children. They aren't born knowing right from wrong. They have to be taught, and the thing about right from wrong is that wrong often feels better in the short term. So you have to set those boundaries and enforce them so the kids will learn that wrong doesn't feel better in the short term.

Yes, I spanked my daughter at age one. It was a light spat on her diaper; I doubt she even felt it! But it was a sudden shock for her when it happened, and it upset her. That's what it was supposed to do! The next time she was tempted to disobey Momma or Daddy, she knew that if she got caught, Daddy would spank her.

The downside is that I had to spank my precious baby. The upside is that, at that young age, it only required a light tap and she never had to have one of those nasty spankings later in life. Her boundaries were made clear to her, and she knew they would be enforced. It wasn't an empty threat.

Guess what happens? An embarrasing scene where the kid continues to act up, because the parents have failed to establish clear roles and behavior a big screaming fest occurs where the parent has the kid by an arm and is "spanking" the kid in front of everyone.

Then you've got a kid screaming, a parent who is either still pissed for whatever stupid problem, or a parent who is embarrassed because they couldn't handle their anger and frustration and lashed out.

And you're surprised? I'm not.

In the first place, the reason the child is screaming as much out of surprise as pain... they didn't believe they would actually get the spanking, because the parents were too much wussies (yes, I said it!) to actually discipline their child properly. And spanking a child while pissed? That is crossing the line to abuse. No parent should ever spank a child while angry... that is as much retaliation as discipline, and retaliation is abuse.

You obviously have no earthly idea how to discipline a child. Don't feel bad though... from what I am seeing you have plenty of company!

These kids don't stop. They get used to getting "spanked." They can't talk to their parents without the parents getting pissy and threatening to "spank" them. So, they just do it anyways. They get better at not getting caught. They get better at lying. And the "spankings" don't stop.

Again, are you surprised? Again, I'm not. That's what happens when one only spanks their child in anger. I never... NEVER... spanked either of my children in anger! Not one single time. I would make them wait until I calmed down first. I also refused to get into a shouting match with them. I was the adult; they were the child.

My parents never spanked me in anger either, and they never yelled at me. I still remember one time when I was very young... I wanted something in the store. The rule in our household was, I could ask quietly for something one time. If the answer was no, I was not to mention it again. Well, this one time I decided i wanted whatever it was badly, so I threw a fit right there in the middle of God and everybody. As soon as I started, I looked up and Dad was just staring at me with this look on his face like "are you begging for a spanking?" I immediately stopped and stood up, and we finished shopping. The whole time I was terrified! I kept going up to Dad and saying "I'm sorry Dad. I quit. I won't do it again. I'm sorry!" Dad never said a word.

The whole way home, I was in the back seat crying... "Dad, I'm really sorry! Please believe me!" He never even acknowledged my pleas.

When we got home, he got the supplies in and told me to go to the bedroom (which was where my punishment would take place). I walked back like a man on death row approaching the gallows. He came in, shut the door, took his belt off, and had me lean over his lap. I got three soft licks, much softer than normal. I got up and he told me, "you knew the rules and you broke them. You got easier licks, though, because you stopped immediately. Don't make me do this again or we will go back to hard licks."

I learned not to throw a fit in public. I also learned that if I did mess up, it's better to stop right then than it is to double down and make things worse. And finally, I learned that second chances are not always going to be there... don't use them up too fast.

The kids you are speaking of have learned just the opposite... if they throw a big enough fit, they might get away with it; their parents are no better than they are and will yell and scream for no reason; since they are going to get spanked anyway when their parents are mad, they might as well accept it and do what they want.

I may not have any kids of my own, but...

Butts make good roasts.

There is no substitute for actually raising a child from birth. That does not make you some sort of "pseudo-parent." I commend you for taking these kids you speak of under your wing, as a strong male figure is essential to a happy, well-adjusted child, but understand you did not get the full experience... not even close. You have done a wonderful thing, but do not think it is what it is not.

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