The Calvine UFO Image is finally out

a reply to: Arbitrageur

A Hawker Hunter could be a contender instead of the Harrier…..if only we had a clearer view of the plane in the Calvine pic. It’s to bad….




Let’s suppose it was Hawker Hunter’s ……..don’t they have nose or gun cameras…..if so, the question is…where are the pics that I would assume, are taken by any military aircraft for that matter, that would have onboard camera capabilities?

👽

Parking the blurry pixel investigation for a minute- can anyone think of a good reason to use either of the suggested candidate aircraft for an escort/intercept mission?

If the Calvine craft is stealthy/secret....why use none stealthy escorts with nothing to add.
If the craft can hover then undertake rapid vertical ascents - the Harriers scenario specific limited VTOL capability is not much use and the HH would never find it.

I suppose they might have been the only local aircraft airborne in an intercept scenario but it's a bit of a stretch to imagine the photographers not only caught a classified aircraft/UAP- but they also captured at the exact moment of intercept?

If the pic showed EA6 Prowlers or some other EW orientated craft....which I'm not sure it does- at least there would be a plausible reason to believe such a scenario ever actually occurred.

a reply to: Jukiodone

There are still a lot of questions that remain unanswered about the photo(s).

● The photo was allegedly snapped on 4th August 1990 somewhere in the Calvine area. But that remains unproven.
● The negatives did not arrive at the MoD until a month later on 10th Sept 1990 and were supposedly returned 4 days later after examination by JARIC staff. The MoD however made 'vu-foils'.
● The MoD was fully expectant of publication of the photo(s) and prepared commentary. The photos were never classified as they were private property. The below briefing was issued by the MoD.



● The story and photo(s) never appeared in the Daily Record. With the public oblivious.

● The MoD asked for a RE-TASK of the analysis from existing Vu-Foils a year later in Sept. 1991 emphasizing "very special handling" was required.. The results of which was a crappy photocopied picture in the MoD files. Other material returned to Di55 was not in the files.

● The story (not the photos) only became public knowledge after the publication of Nick Pope's book in 1996.

● Questions raised in parliament about the photo/story were dismissed as not of defence significance in July 1996

Documentation suggests they really had no knowledge of a Harrier flying on August the 4th 1990. However, as Saddam invaded Kuwait, I would guess that priorities were not being focused on a UFO photo in Sept 1990. Maybe they didn't widen the search for any other type of aircraft because it was easier to close off something viewed as unimportant at the time.

It still remains possible that the date of the photo is incorrect, and it shows a real aircraft acting totally independently of the object. The object itself might be a hoax. Or maybe the whole thing was a hoax and this is why our cousin Kevin has never come forward.

a reply to: mirageman
a reply to: unifaun

HH's would be my guess too.

If accurate- this massively opens up the possible event window for when the pic was allegedly taken as 2 HH's doing low level flight around the Cairngorns wouldn't have been a particularly rare or memorable occurrence- possibly explaining the lack of other witnesses coming forward.

The chances that third party or secret Harriers were operating in that area and no one observed/remembers - given their fame, range and copious ground support req's- seems very small IMO.

a reply to: mirageman

……this is why our cousin Kevin has never come forward.

Where’s Kevin?

(trust me…he’s in there somewhere)

👽

a reply to: Jukiodone

Which aircraft

Provides info but no definitive conclusion.

When I get time I'll pull out the reference to the 4 Harriers sent back to Scotland from deployment in Germany for additional low level flying training as I understand that was fairly unusual and in the right timeframe.

originally posted by: chunder
a reply to: Jukiodone

Which aircraft

Provides info but no definitive conclusion.

When I get time I'll pull out the reference to the 4 Harriers sent back to Scotland from deployment in Germany for additional low level flying training as I understand that was fairly unusual and in the right timeframe.

Interesting analysis…..it’s hopeful that other pictures are released from somewhere now that the present Calvine picture has been publicly displayed.

As for what type of aircraft …. it’s hard to say. Nothing is definitive.

Logic dictates that whatever aircraft was used…onboard cameras would have been used to supply further pictures. Also, wouldn’t there be Radar hits and recordings from that area as per regular daily operations? Where are those tapes?

👽

a reply to: Macenroe82

I'm going to go with some kind of dirigible possibly designed to defeat or deflect the radar of the day as opposed to alien craft.

originally posted by: Macenroe82
a reply to: Blaine91555

I believe the one you posted is the image that Nick Pope helped with the artist rendition of.

It very well is. lol

a reply to: TheGeneral33

TheGeneral33, check out your messages again, please.

What I find strange about this whole saga is how the photographer does not seemed to have been questioned further once the photos arrived at the MoD.

The name is in the files (even if it is still redacted). But there is no recorded attempt to seek clarification from the witness beyond the original statement over the phone with Craig Lindsay.



It's like the MoD had no real interest in doing so. Yet they still went ahead and examined the photos to conclude they showed two harriers. Then even went as far as to check there were no known Harriers operating at the time. Then left it at that for a year. When a second investigation was made in 1991 it appears not all of the paperwork has been released by the MoD

Maybe the name used was actually a pseudonym?

That makes it difficult to explain how Lindsay managed to track down the photographer by phone. But his story isn't exactly a good fit either.

His recall is that he spoke to a man with an English accent at the Atholl Hotel. Yet we are now told that 'Kevin' was from Falkirk and worked at the Pitlochry Hydro Hotel. One of the workers at the Hydro Hotel has also told Clarke's team that he never saw Kevin with a camera and was mystified about him being associated with the photo. Another employee at Fisher's Hotel claimed that Kevin was intimidated by heavies a couple of days after the photos were given to the Daily Record.

So what at first seem like established facts in this case are actually rather questionable (assuming this wasn't a hoax).

Was the date 4th August correct?
Were the aircraft really Harriers in the picture(s)?
Why did the MoD , or Daily Record, not follow up with a formal interview with the photographer?
Was the photographer really called Kevin Russell?
Which hotel did he actually work at?
Was 'Kevin Russell 'really from Falkirk ,was he English?


This is before we even begin to ask about what the object was?

a reply to: mirageman

Also….wasn’t it said once that a “Kevin Russell” might have worked at the MOD?

I would think salary records and personal records of Kev should have been on record at the Hydro and Fisher hotels personnel departments

👽

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Yes.

What was said is

....Meanwhile, we have learned a man of the right name and age currently works for the Ministry of Defence as a photo analyst at the same base to which the photos were sent for analysis in 1990.

"This man, when contacted, told us that he had ‘no recollection’ of being in Scotland in the period in question.”

.... “Despite all our efforts, we have been unable to definitively trace the photographer, although according to all the evidence we have amassed, he is still alive and in his 50s."...

Full Story - Falkirk Herald

What concerns me is that there is no record of any follow up with the witnesses in the files. Yet the MoD didn't even appear to consider it might be a hoax either.

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
Also, wouldn’t there be Radar hits and recordings from that area as per regular daily operations? Where are those tapes?

👽

Don't think radar even sees it, a predecessor in testing on the stealth pole in the desert was invisible until a bird landed on it. It was designed to loiter unseen above the target area for up to 40hrs so needed to be, in the visual spectrum also.

This was interesting to me and references possibly this object plus potentially also triangles.

Is the following referring to it ?

One defense official remarked, “If one had crashed, it would have been so classified we would have had to bomb it to ensure it was destroyed.”

a reply to: Macenroe82

It looks like the markings were drawn and run through a photostat machine before handing it over to the origami department.

The CGI artist rendition has the visible tail fins.

The actual photo however, doesn't have that level of detail.

Noted.

originally posted by: chunder

When I get time I'll pull out the reference to the 4 Harriers sent back to Scotland from deployment in Germany for additional low level flying training as I understand that was fairly unusual and in the right timeframe.

No. 4 Squadron was based at Gutersloh in Germany in 1990 and commanded by Wing Commander Malcolm White. However, the National Archives states that 4 Harriers flew low-level training missions in Scotland in August of that year.

a reply to: chunder

Link

The below is mentioned from recently dated articles…….although what is said may have been from previously dated articles or postings….I’m unaware of it.

Source March 7 2023: UFO investigator solves UK's biggest 'flying saucer' mystery

Btw….the website has frustrating pop up ads I had to wade through to be able to copy and past these particular excerpts.

A UFO investigator believes he has 'solved' the biggest unidentified craft mystery the UK has ever seen. The incredible UFO sighting on Scottish soil was known as the Calvine Incident.

This is all Lame Nicky has to say (two words..perhaps there’s more somewhere) about the released actual photo……

The paper says they've never been released into the public domain and the identity of the walkers never revealed. Recently, former MoD official and Ufologist Nick Pope described one of the photos, the "most compelling" pieces of UFO evidence he has ever seen.

Here’s the main thrust of the article….

But now former BBC Horizon producer Simon Holland has revealed the results of his own investigation. Having looked into the images, he says there is evidence to suggest that defence firm British Aerospace was developing a classified Radar-busting defence system.

The system may have involved a secret diamond-shaped aircraft escorted by privately owned Harrier jets.

The Kevin Russell mentioned in the story would have the best, first-hand account of what happened and he could help settle this enduring mystery. But I do have my own theory on what he photographed.”

"The MOD previously stated, no ‘known’ Harriers were flying in Perthshire on 4th Aug 1990. That turns out to be a massive clue to whose they were. “I discovered that the only other British Harriers were privately owned by BAE Systems, the defence contractor. They used their Harriers as multi-roll defence test platforms, testing BAE advanced technology.

“I dug deeper and found that Marconi Advanced Materials, based inside BAE HQ at Warton, Lancashire, were probably working on an advanced ‘stealth’ skin material for the USAF.” Holland said he recently tracked down Ron Evans, who developed British Aerospace’s Stealth Programme at Warton Airfield, in Lancashire in the late 1980s. He said: “Ron did not confirm any Calvine testing but has explained the use of secret meta materials to hide aircraft from radar. I think there is enough evidence to suggest there was something going on and it would be very helpful if the MOD would just come out and tell us all about it.” Holland’s offerings chime with some of the investigations of Matthew Illsley, who laid out his appeal for information in the Daily Record. Illsley has worked closely with Professor David Clarke, of Sheffield’s Hallam University, who tracked down the only photo of the incident known to exist.

This excerpt below is from a different article…..Sourced March 6 2023 at…..Investigators believe Scot could hold important clue to one of world’s biggest UFO mysteries


We already know what is stated……however…..this mentions a location of the sighting….of which I had not seen before. Perhaps it could be located by someone here and post a relevant satmap…showing it??

The Daily Record has now been told that the person who took the photo was a young ­Glaswegian called Kevin Russell, who was working as a porter at the Pitlochry Hydro Hotel at the time. Kevin and a friend were left ­terrified by the 100ft long aircraft, which they said hovered above the A9 near Calvine for 10 minutes then soared off at high speed when buzzed by RAF jets.

For what it’s worth….

It would not be unreasonable for BAE to have its own harrier’s for research and development, etc.. As for BAE being privately owned…..

From FAQ’s

Is BAE Systems a public company? BAE Systems has its primary listing on the London Stock Exchange (BA. LN), but is also listed in the form of American Depositary Receipts (ADRs) on the Over The Counter market (OTC) in the United States under the symbol BAESY.

👽

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

This post has the location - small bunch of trees about 10m from the pinpoint.

The drone shot referenced gives an idea of the terrain.

Regarding BAE then if there are National Archive records showing Harriers in Scotland at the time then no need to look for privately owned ones.

originally posted by: chunder
a reply to: Ophiuchus1

This post has the location - small bunch of trees about 10m from the pinpoint.

The drone shot referenced gives an idea of the terrain.

Regarding BAE then if there are National Archive records showing Harriers in Scotland at the time then no need to look for privately owned ones.

Thx….I read the post and went to the Satmap.

The curious thing is ….is that it’s stated

Kevin and a friend were left ­terrified by the 100ft long aircraft, which they said hovered above the A9 near Calvine for 10 minutes then soared off at high speed when buzzed by RAF jets.

I take the literal meaning of that to say it hovered directly over the A9 Roadway…..somewhere between the red arrows near Calvine…. Shown below.



If it’s hovering over the A9 ….then it would not be hovering over any fields is my interpretation, despite any fence line the picture was taken from.

So then when I look at the Calvine picture……wherever Kevin is pointing the camera…..the object itself is over the A9 Roadway…….

Is that reasonable?

Which means to me….if it hovered directly over the A9 Roadway……in broad daylight for 10 minutes ……then it, a 100ft object….possibly ….had to be seen by people driving on the A9 Roadway…



I wouldn’t know how busy the A9 would be with traffic during the time of day….Kevin was on his walk about.

10 minutes of hover time over a main roadway is a long time not to have any motorists on the road to see it.

👽

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

We touched briefly on the Simon Holland theory on page 14. But that's all it is.

...It would not be unreasonable for BAE to have its own harrier’s for research and development, etc.. As for BAE being privately owned…..

Maybe.

But what evidence did the self-proclaimed Professor offer as proof that Harriers were being operated by BAE? Then why they were in Scotland on the day of the supposed sighting. Surely local RAF radar stations and the MoD would be aware of such testing to avoid scrambling interceptors?

The answer is "none".