Russia Ukraine Update Thread - part 2

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
I’m personally so feed up about this stupid war.

It’s just going to go on for years to come, simply because no world leader has the balls to just say enough is enough and put Putin (and Russia as a whole, actually) in their place and tell them to tone it the f# down.

People are dying and having their lives destroyed here… someone needs to stand up and put an end to all this nonsense!

I'm with you.

The rest of the world needs to stop Russia. They need to do more.

a reply to: Annee

Why do you think the world needs to do more to solve Europe's problems?

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: Annee

Why do you think the world needs to do more to solve Europe's problems?

They seem to love getting involved in the Middle East and giving those poor countries their long awaited democracies.


Scared of Putin though.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Putin INVADED a sovereign nation.

Who's next?

a reply to: Annee

Can you tell me which invasions we and other NATO countries have participated in or started involved nations that weren't Sovereign?

I really don't understand why so many people have a fixation on that designation. It certainly didn't help Iraq which I will remind you Ukraine helped invade.


I wonder if Saddam had just continually broadcasted that Iraq was a sovereign nation would the world have felt obligated to help them?

I don't think so but what do you think?

SPAM

* - Zaporizka Oblast(08:55). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Donetsk Oblast(08:25). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Mykolaiv, Mykolayivska Oblast(23:27). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Odeska Oblast(23:24). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Kyiv Oblast, Kirovohradska Oblast, Zhytomyr, Zhytomyrska Oblast, Cherkaska Oblast(23:25). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Chernihivska Oblast(23:25). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Vinnytska Oblast(23:24). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Kyiv(23:23). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Sumska Oblast(23:12). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Zaporizka Oblast, Kryvyi Rih, Donetsk Oblast(23:08). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Poltavska Oblast(23:08). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Dnipro, Dnipropetrovska Oblast(23:02). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Kharkiv, Kharkivska Oblast(23:02). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Shelling in Hirnyak

* - The Ukrainian 45th Artillery Brigade shelled Russian logistic point containing fuel and ammunition depots in Zaporizhia Oblast

* - Russian army shelled Osokorivka, Trudolyubivka, Shyroke, Dobrianka and Blahodatne, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the evening report

* - Ukrainian military repelled Russian assault at Orikhove - Zolote, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the evening report

* - Russian army conducted assault at Vrubivka village, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the evening report

* - Battles continue in Sieverodonetsk, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the evening report

* - Ukrainian military repelled Russian assault actions at Dovhenke-Mazanivka and Dovhenke-Dolyna, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the evening report

* - Russian army attempted assault Starytsa-Rubizhne, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the evening report

* - Russian army shelled Zamulivka, Bairak, Husarivka and Ruski Tyshki, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the evening report

* - Russian army shelled Khrinivka of Chernihiv region and Oleksandrivka of Sumy region, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the evening report

* - Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine General Valerii Zaluzhnyi had another conversation with his American counterpart General Mark A. Milley, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff The Joint Staff

* - Donetsk Oblast(14:00). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Donetsk Oblast(12:58). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Russian media report Druzhba oil products pipeline in Bryansk region was targeted with 3 explosive devices

As a reminder

Just so people know and understand. Information from war zones can become confusing as there will no doubt be info released from the players (on both sides) involved that might not necessarily be true.

As such take everything as a possibility and NOT as absolute truth.

The very first casualty in a war is the truth and all warfare is based on deception

Resources - Where most of the updates come from.
* - Flightradar24 - tracks flights worldwide
* - Live Ukraine control map 1 - updates on the ground
* - Ukraine Control Map 2
* - Ship radar
* - Military vessel tracker
* - Institute for the Study of War (ISW)
* - Stopfake - Countering Russian propaganda about Ukraine
* - MilitaryLand - Maps

Youtube resources -
* - Speak the Truth
* - War in Ukraine
* - Artur Rehi - Estonain soldier
* - Daily Report

Social media resources -
* - Twitter - Jomini of the West - Battlefield Maps

* - Russian military shelled border villages in Shostka district of Sumy region this morning with heavy artillery

* - Russian army continues assault on Azov plant in Sieverodonetsk. As result of shelling in Lysychansk 3 people killed, including a child

* - Donetsk Oblast(11:18). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - 2 people killed, 10 wounded as result of Russian shelling in 7 towns of Donetsk region

* - Sumska Oblast(10:46). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Chernihivska Oblast, Poltavska Oblast(10:40). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - 22 people wounded, including 2 children as result of Russian missile strike in Chortkiv

* - Donetsk Oblast(10:31). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - At Bakhmut direction Russian army with mortars, howitzers and MLRS shelled Komyshuvakha, Hirske, Mykolaivka, Bilohorivka, Novoluhanske. Aviation conducted airstrike near Pokrovske, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the morning report

* - At Pivdenny Buh direction Russian army shelled Tverdomedovo, Bereznehuvate, Kobzartsi, Kvitneve and Luch, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the morning report

* - Russian army shelled Zhelanne, Avdiivka, Karlivka, Vuhledar and Orikhiv, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the morning report

* - Ukrainian military repelled assaults near Vrubivka, Mykolaivka and Vasylivka, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the morning report

* - Battles continue in Toshkivka and Sievorodonetsk, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the morning report

* - At Lyman direction Russian army shelled Shypylivka and Dronivka with MLRS, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the morning report

* - At Sloviansk direction Russian artillery shelled Petrivske, Nova Husarivka, Kurulka, Dolyna. Russian forces attempting to hold ground in Bohorodychne, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the morning report

* - At Kharkiv direction Russian army shelled Virnopillia, Ukrainka, Petrivka, Chepil and Khrestyshe. Conducted airstrike near Mospanove, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the morning report

* - Russian army shelled Rozhkovychi, Hremiach, Luhivka and Popivka villages with mortars, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the morning report

* - Russian army shelled Kamianske and Zaliznychne villages in Zaporizhzhia region

* - Explosions and fire reported in Berdyansk

* - Kharkiv, Kharkivska Oblast, Poltavska Oblast(07:31). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Bakhmut(07:26). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Fire after shelling in Kadiivka

* - Sumska Oblast(06:03). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Pokrovsk(00:13). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Kirovohradska Oblast, Cherkaska Oblast(00:05). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Sumska Oblast(23:57). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Mykolaiv, Mykolayivska Oblast(23:53). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Odeska Oblast(23:53). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Zaporizka Oblast, Kryvyi Rih, Poltavska Oblast, Dnipro, Dnipropetrovska Oblast, Kharkiv, Kharkivska Oblast(23:52). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Russian missile destroyed a house in Chortkiv. Household gas supply suspended in the town

* - Donetsk Oblast(22:53). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

As a reminder

Just so people know and understand. Information from war zones can become confusing as there will no doubt be info released from the players (on both sides) involved that might not necessarily be true.

As such take everything as a possibility and NOT as absolute truth.

The very first casualty in a war is the truth and all warfare is based on deception

Resources - Where most of the updates come from.
* - Flightradar24 - tracks flights worldwide
* - Live Ukraine control map 1 - updates on the ground
* - Ukraine Control Map 2
* - Ship radar
* - Military vessel tracker
* - Institute for the Study of War (ISW)
* - Stopfake - Countering Russian propaganda about Ukraine
* - MilitaryLand - Maps

Youtube resources -
* - Speak the Truth
* - War in Ukraine
* - Artur Rehi - Estonain soldier
* - Daily Report

Social media resources -
* - Twitter - Jomini of the West - Battlefield Maps

12 June update

Key Takeaways

* Russian forces continued ground assaults in Severodonetsk and blew up bridges that connect Severodonetsk to Lysychansk across the Siverskyi Donets River in a likely attempt to cut Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) that run from Bakhmut to Lysychansk and Severodonetsk.

* Russian forces made incremental gains to the southeast of Izyum and will likely continue attempts to advance on Slovyansk from the northwest.

* Russian forces continued efforts to push Ukrainian troops back from contested frontlines northeast of Kharkiv City.

* Russian forces focused on maintaining defensive lines along the Southern Axis.

More at URL above.

Cheers

Flightradar24

* - DF12 - Lockheed EP-3E Aries II Orion / US Navy - Patrolling Romania - Black Sea coast
* - JAKE11 - Boeing RC-135W Rivet Joint / USAF - Over Latvia
* - HOBO20 - Boeing KC-135R Stratotanker / USAF - Over Poland
* - CL60 - Bombardier Challenger 650 / UNKNOWN - Patrolling Romanian - Ukraine/Moldova border
* - YANK01 - Beech RC-12X Guardrail / US Army - patrolling Lithuania
* - YANK02 - Beech RC-12X Guardrail / US Army - patrolling Lithuania
* - T-26 - Beech RC-12X Guardrail / Finnish Air Force - Over Central Finland
* - T-42 - Pilatus PC-12 NG / Finnish Air Force - Over north central Finland

originally posted by: Grimpachi
Can you tell me which invasions we and other NATO countries...

Blah, blah, blah. It's all on the public record, but NATO military entanglements are not the topic in hand, nor is the fact that most have neen sanctioned by the UN or other treaty obligations. Here, here's wiki

Russia is the aggressor here in Ukraine, causing grief and destruction, and piling the bodies high for no purpose except greed. No conflict Russia has been involved has been mandated by the UN, and it's quite a long list.

Russia, filling orphanages for one hundred years.

a reply to: paraphi

Thanks for sidestepping the real question.

I guess that means that most of you that keep squawking about "Sovereign Nation" don't have any idea as to why you are doing it.

I can tell you why. It is because you keep hearing MSM sources say it. Humans can be conditioned/trained to respond in certain ways.

This also happened with the Kyle Rittenhouse case where people were conditioned to respond with "he crossed state lines" whenever the topic came up.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
I guess that means that most of you that keep squawking about "Sovereign Nation" don't have any idea as to why you are doing it.

Sigh. Ukraine is a sovereign nation and Russia has invaded them without provocation. Keep up.

a reply to: Grimpachi

What has Rittenhouse got to do with Ukraine?

a reply to: Grimpachi

Don't be so autistic about it. Since Russia's aim is to usurp Ukrainian sovereignty, obviously it makes sense for anyone supporting Ukraine to reinforce the idea that Ukraine is a sovereign state.

a reply to: paraphi

Follow your programing. Don't question.

Iraq was also a soverign nation. The justification for invading it was fabricated. None of the people who fabricated the evidence to invade were ever held accountable.

Trillians spent of taxpayer money, and hundreds of thousands were killed.

Speaking of sanctions. Do you have any clue as to how many have died from the result of sanctions?

How are those "moderate" jihadists doing in Syria that we armed?
NATO is purely a defensive pact that attacked Lybia.

I am curious, was Ukraine a sovereign nation when we backed the coup?


There must be different designations of "sovereign nation." I think they can be divided into two categories. Those that do what we say and those that don't. The ones that don't have their sovereignty ignored.

originally posted by: Cutepants
a reply to: Grimpachi

Don't be so autistic about it. Since Russia's aim is to usurp Ukrainian sovereignty, obviously it makes sense for anyone supporting Ukraine to reinforce the idea that Ukraine is a sovereign state.

I asked the question of why would the entire world need to do more for Ukraine.

The answer was twofold. It is because they are a sovereign nation and that they were invaded by Russia.

If half their reasoning is based on a conditioned response that they cannot explain why they list it as important then it is perfectly reasonable to dig deeper into it.

54 billion has been spent on Ukraine. That 54 billion could have housed every homeless veteran in the US in comfort.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
Iraq was also a soverign nation. The justification for invading it was fabricated.

Boring. We all know that. Iraq is another discussion for you to go and start.

The topic here is Russia and their belligerence and brutality focussed on the sovereign nation of Ukraine.

Are you able to agree Ukraine is a sovereign nation? Maybe start at the beginning.

a reply to: paraphi


This isn't about Iraq. It is about why the sovereignty of one nation is sacred while being completely ignored in other cases.

If the reasoning for supporting Ukraine is at least partly because of their sovereignty then you and others that keep using that reasoning should be able to logically explain why it didn't matter when we invaded sovereign nations.

I get that pointing out people's hypocrisies and inconsistent logic can be uncomfortable.

edit to add

The topic here is Russia and their belligerence and brutality focussed on the sovereign nation of Ukraine.

No, it isn't. This is the update thread. Perhaps you can start the thread that you thought this one was about.

a reply to: Grimpachi

I'd say sovereignty in this context means that the highest authority in the hierarchy of authorities is in the nation and not somewhere outside of it, it's not held by another nation or the illuminati or some other entity. So the question is, is this state of things worth defending for the whole world? Maybe not for everyone or every state, because there may be other problems going on. But generally I think it's very important that nations should be sovereign. I don't want empires, I don't want one nation enslaving other nations. And this is exactly what even Putin claims to want. He's talked about a multipolar world, he constantly worries about threats against Russian sovereignty. So I think it's obvious that all freedom-loving should support this, to such an extent that even unfree nations like Russia and China are forced to pay lip service to this ideal of national sovereignty.

So based on this, I think it's bad when a sovereign state is invaded, because that threatens the sovereignty. And then it follows that the entire world needs to do more for Ukraine. Now that doesn't mean they don't need to do other things too, so I can't say that everyone should do absolutely everything they can for Ukraine. Nations just like people have needs and not all of them can be fulfilled all the time.