Why are atheist so angry with God?

a reply to: neoholographic

I'd be more impressed with a personal story about how God reveals himself in your life and how you came to be at this point in your Calling.

I've read the Bible so much my head hurts.

I'm actually looking into the Quran now for further insights into His message of Mercy and Forgiveness.

And I'm not telling anyone not to debate scripture, if that's your thing, go for it.

The brand of Christianity I subscribe to deals more with how God has manifested in one's personal life as oppossed to incessant and endless repetition of scripture.

He is, after all, The Living God.

Still doing his work out there ever after 2,000 years.

But no.

Let's only focus on what was going on 2,000 years ago from one single Testament and Work.

If that's your thing, whatever floats your boat.

But there is so much more to God that what's in one cultures Religious Compositions.

originally posted by: Proto88
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
Epicurus

This totally ignores the necessity of free will. God only allows evil because he must allow free will.

Or would you prefer we all be automatons with no free will?

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

Well, that's the difference between me and you.

I have found Christ through God's profound Grace on the Cross.

You're still looking for some "brand of Christianity" whatever that means. It sounds like you're just making it up as you go. You're looking at the Quran and communicating with your cat when the Bible tells us none of those things are necessary.

All you need is Christ and to believe He died for our sins and is Risen. What are you looking for? The Bible says:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

It doesn't say whosoever creates their own brand of Christianity. The Bible says:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

I know you don't want to hear chapter and verse because you want to make it up as you go. The Bible tells us that people will not listen to sound doctrine because they want to please their itching ears.

I will end with this. You said:

But there is so much more to God that what's in one cultures Religious Compositions.

A word of advice. Be careful of seeking God looking in all of these different ways in a make it up as you go manner. The final beast system of Government will be a mix of 10 horns with crowns(governments) and 7 heads of blasphemy(universal religion).

We already see the pope and imam wanted to put all religions under one umbrella or a "human fraternity" as they call it. This is the tower of babel, this is mystery Babylon. This is the carnal mind trying to build a utopia on earth without God. The Bible says through peace, he(the antichrist) will destroy many.

So we just have to agree to disagree. I think the Word of God is important. I don't need to seek Christ through the Quran and all of these different cultures and pagan rituals like the pope had at the vatican. I've found God through the profound Love and Grace of Jesus Christ on the Cross and the Holy Spirit that leads us to these truths.

a reply to: neoholographic

The Bible says through peace, he(the antichrist) will destroy many.

Which chapter and verse is that from?

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: neoholographic

The Bible says through peace, he(the antichrist) will destroy many.

Which chapter and verse is that from?

Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

a reply to: neoholographic
Thank you.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: neoholographic
Thank you.

No problem.

a reply to: neoholographic

I agree with you on several points, namely the Death and Ressurection of Christ to wash away the sins of Mankind.

Where else has the Creator humbled himself so much to clarify his position and expectations of humanity than by coming to Earth to live as a mortal man, as one of His Own Creations without an intermediary or messenger?

But there is no disconnect for me between the Abrahamic Faiths, just different prophets for different cultures at different points in those cultures societal and psycho-social evolutions according to His Divine Plan.

For you, you have found your answers in the Bible.
That works for you.

I had additional questions in my Faith Journey that needed answering, and I asked God to guide me in His Teachings and Wisdom, and he led me through Buddist teachings, Zen meditations, Taoist Philosophies, New Age Christ Consciousness, you name it. He even allowed me to (unfortunately) experience the very real and terrible influence of Satan and his minions. I do not blindly accept every aspect or tradition of other faiths and cultures, because that is not my path.

I wanted a Personal Relationship with God and He has guided me in all manner of personal revelations and mysteries.

You called me a Gnostic earlier, and to some extent that is somewhat correct, because I seek Divine Wisdom. I am still far from perfect but I mean well and am simply sharing my personal experience. Please recall that the prophets of the Bible who spread the word of Christ were once treated as Heretics by the Jesuits, even put to death. The only difference between their personal communion with the Divine and my experiences are that they wrote down their experiences and revelations 2,000 years before I was born.

You have a right to witness your Path and Insights, and so do I, but please don't fool yourself into thinking I am a Heretic because my experience was different that yours. I am not your enemy, I am merely trying to explain that you are so focused on YOUR PATH that you fail to acknowledge God's Plans and Paths for others with the same degree of respect.

I am by no means perfect, but this is the Path He has taken me on, and I have found truths in almost every religion and wisdom throughout cultures and the sciences, all further expanding the Divine Mystery of Creation and His Plan.

It's simple.

Seek Truth and DIvine Inspiration, the Words of Peace and Truth and don't worry about what your neighbor is doing.

All is as it should be.

Don't look for confrontation and adversity, for you will surely find it.

Long story short, if God created all things, He also created Atheists for a reason, maybe because he wanted them to focus on a different path than you. Or maybe to test your tolerance for others. Don't judge or condemn them for being the way they are, learn to speak their language and witness in a way they can understand if you really want to bring them to Christ.

In the end, respect their decision to believe or not believe.

God will handle the rest in His Time, in His Way, in a manner that they can understand.

Peace be with you.

a reply to: cooperton

God manipulates free will.

The argument of his respecting free will is moot.

It does not exist. Tyranny, now that exists.

I've said it before, but unless I missed it, it hasn't been addressed.

Seems like a pretty important point to discuss.

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

You're the one that said you were looking for a different brand of Christianity, whatever that means. I believe in Christ and the Power in the Blood of Christ to save us from sin and reconcile us to God. What brand are you talking about?

You want to look for Christ in the Quran. I've already found Christ, the Son of God. Many Muslims don't believe Christ is the Son of God and many don't believe he died on the Cross.

And for their saying, “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of God.” In fact, they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them as if they did. Indeed, those who differ about him are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it, except the following of assumptions. Certainly, they did not kill him. Rather, God raised him up to Himself. God is Mighty and Wise. -Quran 4:157-4:158

Why would I seek Christ in the Quran? You can have this make it up as you go brand of Christianity but I will stick with what Paul said:

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

1 Corinthians 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,

Galatians 6:14 But as for me, may I never boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

I know you don't want to talk about chapter and verse because what you're saying isn't found in scripture.

Why isn't the Blood of Christ enough? Why isn't the Word of God enough? What are you seeking?

Jesus said:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

See, sin corrupted our very nature and this is why Christ was born to a virgin. He was in the form of a sinful man yet without sin. So no matter what we did good or bad, we are born in sin and iniquity. This is why God Created Abraham's Bosom in sheol until Christ came. Jesus talks about this with Lazarus and the rich man.

The point is, the Resurrection of Christ isn't a trick or a slight of hand.

God prepared a way through the woman's seed(mitochondria DNA) for Christ to be the first born of a new Creation. This is why Jesus was born of a virgin. The Bible says:

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Why do I need to seek any and everywhere but the chapter and verse of the Word of God?

When we're born again, a seed is planted in us by the Holy Spirit. At the Resurrection, our corruptible bodies are transformed into the incorruptable image of Christ. Why should I seek any and everywhere but the chapter and verse of the Word of God?

You said:

Long story short, if God created all things, He also created Atheists for a reason, maybe because he wanted them to focus on a different path than you.

He did and I pray that path is changed. The Bible says:

Romans 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

So my path is take down the stumblingblock for many atheists which is the lie of evolution and the lie that the universe can occur naturally. I know in my heart they're people who are atheists now who are being called by God for His Purpose. I'm nothing and God is everything, so it's God who will give the increase wherever He Will's it. I will continue to plant and water seeds through logic and reason which will quiet the carnal mind and allow the spiritual mind to manifest the fruits of the spirit in them if it's the Will of God.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
It does not exist. Tyranny, now that exists.

"You guys" make the argument, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, etc. Killing hundreds and thousands of their own people. Starving them. Using propaganda to support their messages, ideologies. If you take the Bible literally, more or less... that is exactly what your God does.

Yeah, it's crappy and wrong, however those dictators justified killing so many people, or letting them die. I mean, you know... thousands of starved to death Russians during the war, the Khmer Rouge, the Trail of Tears... To name a very few atrocities from history. Maybe you should check Gods KDR.

Not to mention things like the Crusades. Can't remember the guys name, but he wrote a whole book on how to torture heathens and such. He was a head guy during that period. Dan Carlin has a podcast about him.

I think it's in this episode.

(Funny how "you guys" ignore the Crusades when talking about horrible history)

None of the people responsible for those things killed every living thing on the planet, save seven or so people. And a handful of animals. Like.... I'm supposed to believe this is an all loving merciful God? Manipulates free will.. Kills a planet. Vows to kill all us heathens if we don't bend over. Oh- dude killed his own son.

Totally the best ideas an all seeing all knowing guy would do..

The Bible is important. But it shouldn't be taken literally. It's symbolic. For the people of the time. A mixture of various cultures and beliefs. Get out of the delusion.

Scratch that - God sends strong delusions. Maybe "you've all" been blessed with one.

(this post is not directed at any one person)

Praise the Sun! (if you get the reference you get a special cookie!)

So, bringing it back around!

What about that free will? Huh?

I mean, maybe Stalin starved all those folks because, God hardened his heart. Just like he hardened the Pharaohs heart? Where was his mercy for all those first born sons of Egypt who had absolutely nothing to do with anything? Maybe all those Native Americans are dead because, it was God's divine will? Perhaps Cortez was following a predetermined plan? To hell with those savages, am I right? That's what you see us atheists as essentially. As God damned savages.

Ha.. you wonder why people don't think your God is an awesome God.

ETA Levity: Q: What is Jesus' favorite beer? A: Rolling Rock!

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Proto88
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
Epicurus

This totally ignores the necessity of free will. God only allows evil because he must allow free will.

Or would you prefer we all be automatons with no free will?

Great point. Without free will there would just be mindless robots.

a reply to: Romeopsi

Every church I've ever been in, is full of mindless robots.

I used to be one.

a reply to: neoholographic

Originally posted by neoholographic
So no non-Christians read the Bible and they don't know Bible verses????

Of course non Christians will know the Bible, (in most cases anyway)…otherwise they wouldn’t be able to discuss it, in the first place…But in no way does that mean they are invoking a particular verse in the Bible, when they are asking a question about it…

A non Christian could know the Bible in a general sense…but they are hardly likely to be invoking an exact Bible verse when asking a question about it…

Originally posted by neoholographic
Have you ever watched a debate with an atheist? All they do is quote the Bible. So your excuse shows you're just still upset because you thought you had a gotcha moment and it fell flat.

But I never quoted an exact Bible verse…that’s where your theory falls flat on it’s face!

Originally posted by neoholographic
Why wouldn't anyone that reads this link what you're saying to the Bible? There's nothing mysterious about it.

So I have to ask because you made such an awkward statement.

Since you think non-believers don't read the Bible, as a non-believer have you read the Bible?

But me knowing the Bible…has nothing to do with me supposedly tying in a question to be all about a specific verse in the Bible…that’s where your logic and thinking is breaking down…

Taking one word out of someones post and then tying it directly to an exact verse in a Bible…and then telling me that’s the overall context that I was meaning…is just crazy…

The problem here is that 1 Peter 5:8 the very next verse is talking about Christians suffering…and makes no mention of whether their Souls are ultimately lost etc…Which is clearly not in alignment with the context that my post (and the Question I extrapolated from it) was trying to portray…So why would I be invoking such a verse…


The crazy thing about this whole situation is that I’ve actually stated many times what the true context of this post was…i.e. That of Souls being lost…Any normal person would then just answer the question based off of that context…i.e. The context that I’m telling you that it’s about etc…and then continue the discussion from there…

Heck…I could even just erase the word “devour” from the entire post…and use another word in its place…while still keeping the context to be about Souls being lost etc…

You are either just deliberately avoiding the question, by stalling tactics…or you’re just having problems taking on board certain ideas and concepts...

- JC

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES
a reply to: neoholographic

Originally posted by GENERAL EYES
My point is people argue over inconsistancies in the Bible, waging war with words that were meant for silent personal contemplation and understanding in order to illuminate the Truth, but you're so hung up on this authors revelations or insights that you miss the whole reason for the stories in the first place.

Well Said…

Very wise…

Originally posted by GENERAL EYES
This is going to sound crazy, but I'm going to share something I rarely ever talk about. The Bible is a tricky book, written by Man, God through Man, and peppered with Satan's Deceptions throughout. The trick is to look behind the words and "meaning" and focus instead on how these passages meke you feel about yourself, your relationship with God and His Creation.

Doesn’t sound crazy at all…as the stories are meant to internalized by the reader…imo

The way I see it, is that most believers live in the literal (The Religion) but it’s only when they start to seek, by asking the right questions from the heart, that they begin to see the deeper meanings of things…

Btw - Nice Post…

- JC