Why are atheist so angry with God?

originally posted by: Erno86
a reply to: neoholographic

Where does the bible say: "You can't see God"?

Do you believe that statement is true?

If so...do you think that God can let a layman like me, see God? That is...if God felt like it?

Thanks...

Erno

God sends visions to people and you can indeed see him in a vision and in spirit. I think some are forgetting that.. This is much different than physically seeing God in his absolute form which would kill anyone as it is written.

How many people curse God's name saying "Jesus" or "God damnit"... despite not even believing?? Freud was on to something

You got your panties in a bunch?

Spit verses, unless they don't support your delusions?

Your God intentionally makes people hate him.

Says so in your book.

So, "Why do Atheists Hate God?"

Well, we don't. Because, he isn't real.

But if he was, there is the answer to your question.

Read your stupid book. God himself says he makes people hate him.

Your God himself says he lies to people.

Prove me wrong. PROVE ME WRONG.

Not citing verses, shouldn't you already know your book?

Which one of us is suffering a strong delusion? *cough cough*

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Sometimes I wish God was real.

Because then when I die and go to hell, I won't have to pay for tickets to my favorite bands.

a reply to: Randyvine2

Originally posted by Joecroft
Thanks for the breakdown…but it still doesn’t get away from the fact that the really "evil ones" and the ones who lived fairly decently...will all face the exact same punishment…

Which is unfair and unjust…no matter which way you look at it…

Originally posted by Randyvine2
let's try it this way then.

How do you know?

Luke 6:31
Do to others as you would have them do to you.

Luke 6:37
37 ‘Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned.

Matthew 7:2
For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

That’s how I know !

- JC

a reply to: neoholographic

Originally posted by neoholographic
So again, this is saying God who's outside of space and time predetermines all things except for our choices which he allows for us to make.

Originally posted by Joecroft
But if God “predetermines all things except for our choices” like you say, then people becoming Christians shouldn’t be predestined by God…because that’s a decision that comes from their own freewill…

But Romans 8:30 runs contrary to what you’re suggesting…because it’s essentially stating that people are predestined to become believers…as it’s only believers who ultimately become glorified…

Originally posted by neoholographic
God is outside of space and time so he knows all things. We're predestined to be glorified because it's God's will that we and the universe exists. God allowed us to have free will.

Are Atheists and Unbelievers justified and glorified in any Biblical sense of the imagination…?

The word Glorified has a clear connotation towards someone who’s already a believer…and surely only believers are justified in the biblical sense of the word…

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Romans 8:30 takes it a step further by stating “they” are predestined to be called…predestined to be justified and predestined to be glorified…

But you already stated that God predetermines all things except for our choices

Just the fact that some are predestined to be called means it’s unfair on the ones who aren’t called…it’s completely messed up…imo

- JC

a reply to: neoholographic

Originally posted by neoholographic
I have been debating atheist for years and it the same gotcha game.

Right…you’ve been debating this topic for years and have been on Ats since early 2012 and you still don’t know where the quote button is lol

Originally posted by neoholographic
Your first "devour" loop hole fell flat and now we're onto this one. Let's try a Back to the Future explanation since you ignored or didn't understand the last post.

We need to deal with this so called false “devour” loop hole first… before we continue discussing anything else further…

This whole thing is crazy…

Why would a non-Christian (myself) use a word (any word) in a post to be somehow mysteriously linked to a direct verse in the Bible…it makes zero sense…

Plus there’s are a number of identifiers in said post, which clearly show that the overall context is about people losing their souls…and nothing else within said post refers or infers to those 1 Peter 5:8 verses directly…

There’s quite a few identifiers within said post which show that the overall context is about people losing their Souls…meaning I can back up my intended context…to a reasonable degree!

Anyway, I’m sick and tired of being falsely accused of directly reffering to those 1 Peter 5:8 verses inthis post…which I know I didn’t do…it’s not nice being falsely accused of something…Funny thing is…Satan is also known as the accuser…who goes around accusing people of things that aren’t true…which ironically, is exactly what you are doing here.

Now I asked you to try and rectify the situation in my other post…but you just continued like a record player with the same false accusations…with nothing to really substantial to prove your point…We are just going round in circles…with you constantly accusing me of either alluding to or directly inferring to said verses…and me stating that that wasn’t my intended context of said post…


So here’s a basic question to try and clear this up…

Question How did you infer or determine that my use of the word “devour” in this post…was a direct tie in to verses (1 Peter 5:8)…please explain… I’m all ears…

And you need to clearly show how said post is a direct tie in to those verses 1 Peter 5:8…And I mean…you need to clearly demonstrate it beyond a shadow of a doubt…

You’re the one making the accusation…so lets see if you can back it up!

- JC

a reply to: Joecroft

What??

You're making it worse for yourself. You said:

Why would a non-Christian (myself) use a word (any word) in a post to be somehow mysteriously linked to a direct verse in the Bible…it makes zero sense…

This just shows that you thought you had a loophole and it fell flat and your pride will not let you let it go.

So no non-Christians read the Bible and they don't know Bible verses????

This whole thread has been non-believers talking about the Bible!

Your excuse now is non-believers don't know Bible verses? I haven't been in a debate with an atheist yet that hasn't quoted the Bible trying to find loopholes or plot holes without any success.

Have you ever watched a debate with an atheist? All they do is quote the Bible. So your excuse shows you're just still upset because you thought you had a gotcha moment and it fell flat. You said:

but supposedly lets this evil entity roam around freely to devour souls and tempt people etc

How did you know satan tempts people if you haven't read the Bible?

How did you know satan "devours souls" if you didn't read the Bible?

How did you know satan roams freely if you didn't read the Bible?

You really need to let it go because you're making yourself look worse. Your plot hole/loophole has fell flat twice now. Now you want to act like the non-believers don't know Bible verses when this whole thread is non-believers talking about the Bible. You said:

Why would a non-Christian (myself) use a word (any word) in a post to be somehow mysteriously linked to a direct verse in the Bible…it makes zero sense…

THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID:

but supposedly lets this evil entity roam around freely to devour souls and tempt people etc

Why wouldn't anyone that reads this link what you're saying to the Bible? There's nothing mysterious about it.

So I have to ask because you made such an awkward statement.

Since you think non-believers don't read the Bible, as a non-believer have you read the Bible?

If you answer yes, you refute this statement:

Why would a non-Christian (myself) use a word (any word) in a post to be somehow mysteriously linked to a direct verse in the Bible…it makes zero sense…

If you say no, you refute this statement you made.

but supposedly lets this evil entity roam around freely to devour souls and tempt people etc

You put yourself in a catch-22 situation because you can't accept that your loophole/plot holes are falling flat.

a reply to: neoholographic
Your argument is weak.

The idea that satan eats, consumes or devours souls is the subject of paintings, like Giotto’s "Last Judgment" and Giovanni da Modena's "The Inferno".

It even pops up now and then in pop culture, like Dave Grohl as satan telling Tenacious D to "Play the best song in the world, or I'll eat your souls..."

So, while I personally have read the bible, you don't have to, to know about this idea.

Also, I didn't think of that particular verse when I saw Joecroft's post.

a reply to: daskakik

What??

Now you're saying non-believers are on here debating about LOOPHOLES AND PLOT HOLES IN THE BIBLE but they haven't read the Bible????

HOW DO THEY KNOW THEY'RE LOOPHOLES OR PLOT HOLES THEY THINK ARE IN THE BIBLE IF THEY HAVEN"T READ THE BIBLE??



I'm not surprised that you think that makes sense because you have made outlandish claims on this thread.

You have said God and satan are close friends. No verse to support you.

You said satans job was to tempt people. No verse to support you.

You said that God was betrayed by satan. No verse to support you.

You said you believe in some mythical peer that only you believe in while ridiculing the Bible.

You said you believe in some afterlife that nobody knows about or nobody believes but you.

You have commented in this thread more than anyone with the same outlandish claims without any evidence so I'm not surprised that you think somebody can debate loopholes and plot holes in the Bible WITHOUT READING THE BIBLE!

a reply to: neoholographic
No, I'm saying they can have the general gist of the story and even some words, that obviously took you to a specific verse, with them having never read that verse.

So yeah, your strawman argument about that post referring to a specific verse is just that.

You have not actually refuted anything, all you did was dismiss some of the things some people have said and tried putting words in their mouths by claiming you know way they are "angry".

a reply to: daskakik

You said:

No, I'm saying they can have the general gist of the story and even some words, that obviously took you to a specific verse, with them having never read that verse.

Again, this makes no sense. So I can debate plot holes and loop holes in a TV show without seeing any of the TV show?

Like I said, I'm not suprised you think this makes sense with all of the outlandish unsupported claims you have made on this thread.

He just doesn't want to admit his loopholes/plot holes fell flat. Now you and him want to act like you don't have to read the Bible to debate the Bible. That's just silly.

If you're still arguing about Chapter and Verse and don't understand the Gospels in your heart, you don't "get it".

If you believe God created EVERYTHING what makes you think Atheists aren't just being who God wants them to be.

And by being true to their nature, they fulfill their purpose.

Christians who go around looking for enemies and adversaries always worry me.

a reply to: neoholographic
Obviously, it makes no sense to you.

It isn't like most people don't know the basic story in the bible even if they never actually read the bible. For example, there are a bunch of movies based on bible stories.

The loopholes are there, even if you can't see them.

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

You said:

If you're still arguing about Chapter and Verse and don't understand the Gospels in your heart, you don't "get it".

What? Have you read the thread?

When people are claiming that they're loopholes and plot holes in the Bible of course you're going to debate chapter and verse.

It's sad but funny how far people will stretch logic and reason to support their position. You now have two non-believers that have made arguments about loopholes and plot holes that have fell flat and now it's not about chapter and verse LOL.

I'm sorry, I have to laugh at that statement. So you're saying don't read the chapter and verse and the chapter and verse don't matter when 2 non-believers fall flat with their arguments.

The Bible says:

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

You then said:

Christians who go around looking for enemies and adversaries always worry me.

Again, you're refuted by the Word of God that says we should look for and recognize the fruit of the enemies of Christ.

Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Who goes around looking for enemies? Have you read my threads? This is one of my few threads about atheist. This message was needed because I know there's atheist being called by God and they needed to hear this especially now. Here's some of my recent threads.

Science finds more evidence of God's Creation
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Jesus predicted Nuclear Weapons
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Brain scans on a dying man suggest his life flashed before his eyes, researchers say
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The spiritual mind vs the carnal mind
www.abovetopsecret.com...

You said:

Christians who go around looking for enemies and adversaries always worry me.

Who are you talking about? I have been on ATS since 2012. Show me the thread where I was looking for advesaries or enemies. In fact, I said this on this thread.

I pray for atheist and that they come to God through Jesus Christ.

So again, who are you talking about? It's convenient that you don't want to talk about chapter and verse when the loophole/plot hole arguments fall flat.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: neoholographic
Obviously, it makes no sense to you.

It isn't like most people don't know the basic story in the bible even if they never actually read the bible. For example, there are a bunch of movies based on bible stories.

The loopholes are there, even if you can't see them.

This is sad.

You just go to absurd lengths to make these arguments that fall flat.

Of course he has read the Bible. In fact, he quoted the NIV. He wanted the NIV translation over the King James version.

HOW DID HE KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DIFFERENT TRANSLATIONS OF THE BIBLE WITHOUT READIN THE BIBLE?

He said this:

The NIV version uses the word “someone”

How does he know what the NIV says if he hasn't read the Bible? How does he know the difference between the NIV and the King James version if he hasn't read the Bible?

It's interesting because he said this:

but supposedly lets this evil entity roam around freely to devour souls and tempt people etc

Why did he use the word roam around? I will show you why.

The King James version says this:

Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

The NIV says:

Job 1:7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

So to make the loophole/Plot hole argument he even read both of these versions because he realized the King James version didn't support him so he tried to use the NIV to no avail.

Those verses that you initially brought up …i.e. 1 Peter 5:8…uses the word “whom”…and NIV version uses the word “someone”… which clearly suggests that’s it’s not just talking about Christians, that Satan is looking to devour…

He is well versed in the difference between the NIV and the King James version because he thought the NiV supported his loophole/plot hole argument and it didn't. His argument fell flat and how does he know the difference between these 2 versions if he never read the Bible?

a reply to: neoholographic
They only fall flat in your opinion, which means no more than mine.

Derp, they actually quoted the NIV version, that doesn't mean they didn't look it up just then because you kept harping on about it.

Besides, like I said earlier, it is a strawman argument.

Aaaand I see that the thread has devolved into Zer Madness Place (props to anyone who gets the reference) whereby chunks of the bible are being quoted to prove that *checks notes* the bible is 'real'.
Oh dear.
Get a grip, people, we have thread-drift occurring.

a reply to: neoholographic

My point is people argue over inconsistancies in the Bible, waging war with words that were meant for silent personal contemplation and understanding in order to illuminate the Truth, but you're so hung up on this authors revelations or insights that you miss the whole reason for the stories in the first place.

It's YOUR path.


What exactly was the Christ's Greatest Message?

Doing unto others as you would have done unto you?

or

Salvation only comes through me.

Because right now, I see a bunch of Christ's arguing over who's message is the REAL one.

This is going to sound crazy, but I'm going to share something I rarely ever talk about. The Bible is a tricky book, written by Man, God through Man, and peppered with Satan's Deceptions throughout. The trick is to look behind the words and "meaning" and focus instead on how these passages meke [i]you feel about yourself, your relationship with God and His Creation.

Focus on those feelings and the impulse to act on them.

Is it peaceful? Is it kind? Does it Honor God's Creation or does it inspire to Divide, Scapegoat and Judge Others?



In short, what I'm getting at, even though I'm aware of the endless refrains to go out and convert and preach the good word about Grace and Mercy of a God who loves you even though you don't believe but live your life Justly, Morally, Charitably and Compassionately and will thus be judged on your works rather than your words.

I don't know what "god" you're worshipping if it's anything other that Kindness and Compassion.

I just think the endless arguements over other authors outside of the word of Jesus/The Father Himself in his own words as transcribed in the Gospels and the lessons he put forth during his life is completely missing the point of Christianity.

The OT God isn't speaking anymore, remember?

He came to clarify, and you're still ignoring the update.

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

That sounds like Gnosticism.

Think about it. You're on a debate forum telling people they shouldn't debate. Why are you on this forum? Why are you starting so many threads if you don't want debate?

Yes, Jesus was about compassion and love but he was also about correction and accountability. This is what he said to the Pharisee's.

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Truly, I don't understand your point. I looked at your profile and you have startedwhat looks like hundreds of debates because ATS i a debate forum. You then come on here and say it's not about chapter and verse because you want to talk about gnosicism which has no basis in scripture so you can basically say anything and act like it's of Christ. You said this in one post:

The other day I was having one of my infamous "moments" and wasn't exactly grounded in conventional and agreed upon reality. During this minor fugue state, our cat - (who usually is too preoccupied with her personal endeavors to give us much consideration at all) relayed a bit of communication with me.

So why can you be on here debating how your cat talked to you, but I can't debate chapter and verse of scripture? I have seen several gnostics come on here complaing because we're talking about the Bible because the things you say have no basis in scripture. So of course you don't want to talk about chapter and verse.