Why are atheist so angry with God?

originally posted by: flice
I think I wrote somewhere in this thread, but I can't remember what it was.
But something came to mind recently.

I know JB Peterson recently approached "god" a little more himself, without actually saying he believed in "God".
But it was something he said earlier that set of a chain of events in my brain that made me come to some personal realisations about my relationship to the concept of "God" as an atheist.

For a long time I was not angry at God. My anger was more directed towards those whose beliefs I considered a sign of weakness or a way to let go of personal responsibility. I just couldn't get my head around why anyone would choose to put their own destiny in the hands of an unconfirmed fictional character. God's way, God's will etc.

I firmly believe that my path is my own and what happens is due to the chain of events I set in motion from what I do or choose not to do.

At the same time, I came to understand psychological parts of myself and young life. How because of unresolved trauma in my young years, I have a part of me that feels a need to be taken care of. The inner child. And from him came the creation of the person I am today. Sometimes the today person is really the inner child, wearing a mask, pretending to be.

Now JB Peterson has done an amazing job of bridging psychology with religion, and Alan Watts, whom I also listened to a great deal did the same, although with a more philosophical aspect to it.

What I came to understand and now believe, and why I can now say "Yes, I'm angry at God.", is the realisation that "God" is something that is about us.

It is not a seperate concept or seperate being.

You could very well argue that "God" is a higher being, but from the point of view that it represents the utmost pure representation of oneself that is possible. The "highest good".

So does that mean I hate myself? Well yes and no.

The anger arises from a given moments realisation that I at that moment don't feel like it's possible for me to achieve this highest form of possible good. But I can see it clearly... it's mocking me, or, I'm letting my unachieved version of myself feel mocked by this ideal.

And then comes the almost childlike reaction to something that is difficult, to which we also don't feel like we are getting the support to achieve, like a kid who quits soccer because someone else scores more goals than him during training....... I get angry. I curse this "God". While secretly I wish, oh I wish I knew how to attain being that person.

Pain leads to suffering, leads to anger, leads to hatred. (Yes I just wrote that... sorry, but it's so accurate).

At this point in time, I don't as such hate people who worship. It's more of a pity feeling. Because they are pretty much stuck in the same situation as me, they just replaced the God image with something external, because it's easier.

I'm getting better at accepting who I am. And the irony is that in those moments where I do see clearly and almost spot a way to attain that highest good, what I see is that the highest good version of myself, is really not that different from the me I am now. It's really just a version where I have made peace with my past, the traumatic moments in my life and accepted to be "who I am" through being open about what I think, like and enjoy, rather than trying to fit in.

Oh how complex the human mind and society is. And yet, we are all so much the same.

That is beautiful 😍

a reply to: flice

I have to vehemently disagree. You said:

Now JB Peterson has done an amazing job of bridging psychology with religion, and Alan Watts, whom I also listened to a great deal did the same, although with a more philosophical aspect to it.

What I came to understand and now believe, and why I can now say "Yes, I'm angry at God.", is the realisation that "God" is something that is about us.

It is not a seperate concept or seperate being.

You could very well argue that "God" is a higher being, but from the point of view that it represents the utmost pure representation of oneself that is possible. The "highest good".

This is egocentric and makes no sense.

Where do humans get the gumption to reduce all existence to themselves?

We're a type 0 civilization that hasn't been back to the moon in 53 years and you're going to reduce all existence to us? Based on what?

So God isn't a separate being he's a reflection of us. So you reduce existence to your brain.

So out of 13.8 billion years of the universe that may be a speck in infinity there's no other beings, no other intelligence outside of this type 0 civilization that hasn't even explored it's own backyard?

Again, where do you get the gumption to make such a statement? What is this based on?

originally posted by: neoholographic
No, I have faith in God that's the Creator of all things.

Your op said

It's because they know God exists. Everyone knows God exists.

Don't back peddle now.

If you believe in an afterlife then you're not an atheist. You're agnostic.

Incorrect, atheism is the belief that god doesn't exist. Like I have said in other threads there is also the possibility that the earth/universe were created by a peer. It has to do with simulation theory.

What is your evidence that God isn't in this afterlife you believe in?

I have no evidence, I've just never seen the guy. Haven't seen Zeus, Mars, Poseidon or Quetzalcoatl either, so I don't believe in them either.

If you're an atheist you have to believe we're the highest form of intelligence that exists or has ever existed.

Says who?

originally posted by: daskakik


Using your analogy, what kind of father abandons his kids and allows someone to enter their life who is bad for them?

I think you expect God to be an overbearing parent that keeps their kid locked in a room to avoid all dangers. That is not the case

a reply to: daskakik

You said:

Incorrect, atheism is the belief that god doesn't exist.

This my point, it's a belief not a statement of fact. If it's a belief, what is it based on? This is like the 5th time I've asked this simple question.

You said:

Like I have said in other threads there is also the possibility that the earth/universe were created by a peer. It has to do with simulation theory.

What peer? Where does this peer exist? What galaxy? Is this peer in another universe? Is this peer carbon based? Is this peer a type 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 civilization? Is this peer extra dimensional? Who is this peer?

You said:

I have no evidence, I've just never seen the guy. Haven't seen Zeus, Mars, Poseidon or Quetzalcoatl either, so I don't believe in them either.

I haven't seen you talk about them like you talk about God more than anyone in this thread so far. I always find it funny when atheists mention mars and zeus yet all they do is talk about the God in the Bible. It's an inconvenient truth for you. You made the claim that you believe in an afterlife?

Where is the evidence that the God of the Bible that you can't stop talking about isn't in this afterlife you believe in?

originally posted by: cooperton
I think you expect God to be an overbearing parent that keeps their kid locked in a room to avoid all dangers. That is not the case

I didn't say that. I asked "what kind of father abandons his kids and allows someone to enter their life who is bad for them?"

That doesn't say he should be overprotective but, I'm sure everyone would agree that, it would be questionable if he hired John Wayne Gacy to babysit them.

It isn't my fault that the story plays out like that, I'm just saying that is what made me doubt that any of it was true.

originally posted by: neoholographic
This my point, it's a belief not a statement of fact. If it's a belief, what is it based on? This is like the 5th time I've asked this simple question.

Well, then your statement of fact that we all know he does exist is wrong, which pretty much shoots down your entire premise.

Who is this peer?

Don't know, I just said it is a possibility.

I haven't seen you talk about them like you talk about God more than anyone in this thread so far.

Because nobody has made a thread about them, which brings us right back to it not being about the biblical god, per se, but the people who keep bringing him up.

a reply to: daskakik

You said:

Well, then your statement of fact that we all know he does exist is wrong, which pretty much shoots down your entire premise.

What? Did you read my post? I said atheist make statements of facts that God doesn't exist or when we die that's it and they can't possible know these things. What are you talking about?

You said:

Don't know, I just said it is a possibility.

A possibility based on what? Who is this peer? Where does this peer live? Why do you think the existence of this peer is a possibility? Is this peer like us or a type 3, 4 or 5 civilization?

Here it is, you spent more time commenting on this thread than anyone about God and you believe in the possibility of the existence of the peer that you have no clue about. Who is this mythical peer?

Also, you haven;t answered the simple question, what is your atheism based on?

I have to say this again though!!

A possibility based on what? Who is this peer? Where does this peer live? Why do you think the existence of this peer is a possibility? Is this peer like us or a type 3, 4 or 5 civilization?

Here it is, you spent more time commenting on this thread than anyone about God and you believe in the possibility of the existence of the peer that you have no clue about. Who is this mythical peer?

originally posted by: neoholographic
What? Did you read my post? I said atheist make statements of facts that God doesn't exist or when we die that's it and they can't possible know these things. What are you talking about?

Your OP: "It's because they know God exists. Everyone knows God exists."

That statement of fact that you made contradicts you saying it is just a belief.

A possibility based on what?

It doesn't matter. You are not going to buy into it either way. That is why I don't make threads about it.

Also, you haven;t answered the simple question, what is your atheism based on?

I have answered it. The bible seems to me like a bunch of mythical stories and therefore I don't believe in your god.

ETA: And, let's face it, that is the only god you have a problem with people not believing in.

a reply to: daskakik

You said:

Your OP: "It's because they know God exists. Everyone knows God exists."

That statement of fact that you made contradicts you saying it is just a belief.

You're reaching for a strawman to avoid this mythical peer of yours. I said it's a fact they know God exists and retain the knowledge of God in their conscious but they believe and make statements that God doesn't exist with no basis. You're just trying to avoid talking about this peer.

Does this peer create the after life you believe in?

How can you believe in an after life while just believing in the possibility of your mythical peer?

Here it is you're slamming people for believing in God who millions of people have a personal relationship with and you believe in an unknown peer who must create this afterlife you believe in. You don't know where this peer lives. Does the peer live in another dimension, another universe, inside of a black hole?

What's this peer made of? Is this peer carbon based? Is this peer a male or female?

The hypocrisy is so thick, you can cut it with a knife.

You have spent page after page slamming people for their beliefs and you believe in the possibility of a peer that creates the afterlife that you believe in? Who else believes in this peer? Is this peer a peer or way more advanced?

Why do you put faith in a peer that you have no clue about and faith that this peer created the afterlife you believe in?

originally posted by: neoholographic
You said:

Your OP: "It's because they know God exists. Everyone knows God exists."

That statement of fact that you made contradicts you saying it is just a belief.

You're reaching for a strawman to avoid this mythical peer of yours.

No, this has nothing to do with that. It was me calling you out for back peddling.

Does this peer create the after life you believe in?

If they are a peer, then, no.

How can you believe in an after life while just believing in the possibility of your mythical peer?

OBEs and my little sister confirming IRL that my spirit was floating above my body.

a reply to: Joecroft

It doesn't sound like a just and fair punishment fitting the crime/s... if you ask me...

Well if you understood that sin is the cause for all the wars murders child
sacrifices even in the belly of a metal calf. All the sickness of body and mind.
All the sexual perversion child pornography pollution hate etc etc. If you
understood that blaming our Father in Heaven for a world he has allowed
us time to create without his guidance?

Then putting the souls of those who chose to love this world and sin
more than the Creator seems righteous and just and merciful to me.
Especially when a new Heaven and a new Earth has been promised.

He is righteous to insure this never happens again. You choose to only
think in the negative about The Father. I automatically see the positive.
I can't wait to see what he has in store for those willing to obey him as it
absolutely should be. I can't imagine ever thinking I'm smarter or have
better morals than God but maybe you can get him to do things your way?

Good luck with that!

a reply to: daskakik

It makes no difference to me because I just don't buy it, one way or the other.

Then why are you engaging in this conversation at all?
Do you always do things that are so senseless?
Why waste everyone's time including your own?

originally posted by: Randyvine2
Then why are you engaging in this conversation at all?
Do you always do things that are so senseless?
Why waste everyone's time including your own?

Because that is what we are all doing, wasting time sharing our ideas.

As to your previous post to Joecroft, wouldn't it seem like god created this sin that he hates so much? Some people do say he created everything.

Then putting the souls of those who chose to love this world and sin more than the Creator

I have to go back to the theory that the angels that rebelled did so before man was created, maybe even before the earth was created.

The questions is, if god was so great, why did they rebel?

Like I said in the post you replied to, it makes no difference to me because I'm not buying whatever mental gymnastics you can put out here for us, which is probably more for you than us.

a reply to: daskakik

No gym class needed it's just what God has said not me.

You only seem to engage so you can discredit Gods word with
misinformation. It seems to important to you to so to say it
makes no difference to you. So I think you're full of yourself
honestly.

a reply to: Randyvine2

Originally posted by Joecroft
It doesn't sound like a just and fair punishment fitting the crime/s... if you ask me...

Originally posted by Randyvine2
Well if you understood that sin is the cause for all the wars murders child
sacrifices even in the belly of a metal calf. All the sickness of body and mind.
All the sexual perversion child pornography pollution hate etc etc. If you
understood that blaming our Father in Heaven for a world he has allowed
us time to create without his guidance?

But not everyone fits under the Label of "completely evil"…like the examples you’ve described above…And even if they are really bad…do they really deserve eternal torment in hell…

Also, many people live decent lives and hardly commit many sins…and yet they are going to receive the exact same punishment as the really “evils one’s”…which is completely messed up…imo

- JC

a reply to: Joecroft

But not everyone fits under the Label of "completely evil"…like the examples you’ve described above…And even if they are really bad…do they really deserve eternal torment in hell…

Also, many people live decent lives and hardly commit many sins…and yet they are going to receive the exact same punishment as the really “evils one’s”…which is completely messed up…imo

Have you read anything I have written? Yes it would be messed up. If
what you said was true? But it is not the truth.

originally posted by: Randyvine2
No gym class needed it's just what God has said not me.

Honestly I don't think god has actually, like in person, said anything to you

I accept that I could be wrong but my experience leads me there.

You only seem to engage so you can discredit Gods word with misinformation. It seems to important to you to so to say it makes no difference to you. So I think you're full of yourself honestly.

Might seem like misinformation to you but all I can talk about is what I have experienced and where that has led me.

I'm not looking to convert anyone so in that sense it doesn't mean anything to me.

originally posted by: Randyvine2
Have you read anything I have written? Yes it would be messed up. If what you said was true? But it is not the truth.

Maybe you should rethink things because your second death interpretation is flimsy and doesn't say what you want it to say.

It certainly isn't what some other christians think, so who are people supposed to believe?

a reply to: neoholographic

Originally posted by neoholographic
Have you ever read 1 Peter 5:8 before your post?

Like I said, I have been debating atheist for years and it the same gotcha game. You were so sure you found a loophole/plot hole and then when you heard the context didn't support your narrative you act like you had no idea about the verse. If I would have said The Bible doesn't say anything about devour, you would have broke your fingers typing 1 Peter 5:8 to get your gotcha moment.

I doesn’t matter if I’ve read that verse or not because it was never my intention to tie that word “devour” into that verse inthis post

But Like I said before…you’re just not listening…

Plus, I’ve already explained multiple times how I meant the word “devour” in that post…and its true context…

The context you say doesn’t fit my narrative…was never the context I was representing to begin with…you’re basically accusing me of something I haven’t done…It’s totally ridiculous…

Here’s my post again just for reference…

Originally posted by Randyvine2
The “plot hole” is that Satan is supposedly being aloud to roam around freely harming people. Peoples Souls are on the line!...

The thing is, people’s souls could still be on the line with free will (freedom) choice still being present…without the need for some big evil entity making things worse…God is all about saving Souls…but supposedly lets this evil entity roam around freely to devour souls and tempt people etc…

Also it kind of gives people an out…”Satan made me do it“..for example…

Heck… I even used the phrase “to devour Souls” which gives an extra identifier as to what I really meant…”devour souls” meaning souls are being lost…which is clearly different from people suffering from psychical affliction…

- JC