Why are atheist so angry with God?

a reply to: Joecroft

You said:

Simple…By becoming believers…and then staying steadfast in the Faith…

Then they're believers and of course the verses are talking to them. Why do you keep trying to stretch the truth to fit your narrative? You mentioned devour because you thought it was a gotcha that fit your narrative. You said:

but supposedly lets this evil entity roam around freely to devour souls and tempt people etc

What other verse talks about the devil looking to devour? I just gave you the context of the verse that you were taking out of context to stretch the truth into your narrative.

You said:

It’s about people losing their Souls because Satan is aloud to roam around lieing and deceiving people…while God has the power to just get rid of him at any time…God is about saving Souls…so why would God allow that to continue…???

God could easily make peoples free remain intact, without allowing Satan the power to interfere with people’s lives…(And I’m not talking about psychical afflictions here…just so we’re clear) I’m talking about people’s Souls getting deceived…

Fair questions and I hope you accept the answers.

Free will is important because God knows the heart of the person making the choice to accept Christ. The Bible says:

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Repentance is the key word here.

You said:

God could easily make peoples free remain intact, without allowing Satan the power to interfere with people’s lives

What you need to understand is, our sinful nature. We're the ones that carry out evil acts and it's not because of satan. The Bible says:

Jeremiah 17:9 - The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Mark 7:21 - For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

The Bible says the carnal mind is at enmity with God:

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

So, saying we could just have free will and everything would be fine is false. The Bible says the mark of the beast is the number of a man.

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

So, there's no plot holes.

The question is, do you really want answers or are you just looking for plot holes?

originally posted by: neoholographic
What other verse talks about the devil looking to devour?

It is the basic premise of the story.

In the new testament when satan offered the world to Jesus, what does that tell you?

It would seem that satan has reign over the world, even if Jesus didn't accept the offer.

And the basic argument that I have put forth is, why would a loving parent let a deviant reign over the lives of his children?

Why does the story say he was allowed to meet with god, why was he allowed to tempt eve in eden?

Basically it makes no sense, to my mind, to say god loves all of humanity and loathes satan but still allows him to drag down as many humans as he can.

Maybe you are feeling comfy in the knowledge that you are not one of the humans being dragged down or maybe the story just isn't true?

a reply to: neoholographic

Originally posted by neoholographic
Then their believers and of course the verses are talking to them. Why do you keep trying to stretch the truth to fit your narrative?

But no one starts out as a believer…that was my point..

Surely you can imagine a non-believer reading those verses, while searching for truth…

But remember, I never brought up these verses to debate them in the first place…

Originally posted by neoholographic
You mentioned devour because you thought it was a gotcha that fit your narrative. You said:

No…I used the word “devour” without tying it into any Bible verse/s…I had no Bible verse in mind when I used the word “devour”…

You’re the one that’s trying to force and tie in the word “devour” to be about the verses (1 Peter 5:8)…And I’ve already explained twice why you brought those verses up…

Originally posted by Joecroft
It’s about people losing their Souls because Satan is aloud to roam around lieing and deceiving people…while God has the power to just get rid of him at any time…God is about saving Souls…so why would God allow that to continue…???

God could easily make peoples free remain intact, without allowing Satan the power to interfere with people’s lives…(And I’m not talking about psychical afflictions here…just so we’re clear) I’m talking about people’s Souls getting deceived…

Originally posted by neoholographic
Fair questions and I hope you accept the answers.

Free will is important because God knows the heart of the person making the choice to accept Christ. The Bible says:

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But Satan is still being aloud to deceive people…which means people are still perishing because of him…The longer he’s around…the more souls get deceived…

Also, if it’s just about our freewill…then surely there’s no need for Satan to be around…as we can make good and bad choices on our own…

Originally posted by neoholographic
Repentance is the key word here.

What you need to understand is, our sinful nature. We're the ones that carry out evil acts and it's not because of Satan. The Bible says:

But Satan could still blind people from the truth…which in turn would affect that persons Soul and “eternal destiny”…irrespective of how big or how small a sinner they are…

Originally posted by neoholographic
So, saying we could just have free will and everything would be fine is false. The Bible says the mark of the beast is the number of a man.

Well, I never said things would be fine or perfect…but I did allude to things being much better, especially without Satan being around to tempt and deceive etc…which stands to reason…

You need to look at it as a whole…rather than from just your own religious perspective…The Ironic thing here is, that even Jesus goes out to find the 1 from the 99 and saves him…

There’s good and bad people out there…some will find Christianity and be “Saved”…while others…who may not be all that bad, will get deceived into not finding “The Truth”…And it could be through no fault of their own, because they got deceived by Satan…Which is completely unfair…

The fact that it’s unfair means there’s already something wrong with God allowing Satan to roam around freely…That’s the loophole that you’re not seeing…

- JC

a reply to: Joecroft

The verse is well known and you thought you had a gotcha moment but when I explained the context of the verse and you saw it didn't fit your narrative, you tried to change it up.

I have been debating for years and I have never debated someone that didn't connect satan and devour to that verse. You will be the first to mention satan and devour with no idea about that verse. If you would have just said tempt, I wouldn't have mentioned the verse but you said devour. Of course you will act like you never heard the verse and you just said it out of the blue and that's because the context of the verse doesn't fit your loophole/plot hole narrative.

You said:

But Satan is still being aloud to deceive people…which means people are still perishing because of him…The longer he’s around…the more souls get deceived…

How's satan deceiving you? How's satan stopping you from accepting Christ?

You keep talking about loopholes and plot holes but they're not there. You said:

There’s good and bad people out there…some will find Christianity and be “Saved”…while others…who may not be all that bad, will get deceived into not finding “The Truth”…And it could be through no fault of their own, because they got deceived by Satan…Which is completely unfair…

The fact that it’s unfair means there’s already something wrong with God allowing Satan to roam around freely…That’s the loophole that you’re not seeing…

How are you deceived in not finding the truth? How is satan stopping you from reading the Word of God and giving your life to Christ?

Sadly, you're just looking for these non existent loopholes that you conjured up in your mind. That's stopping you from finding the truth not satan. The Bible says:

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

This is saying you, not satan know these things and they're made manifest to you but you hold the truth in unrighteousness so you are without excuse. You can't say the devil made me do it.

You know the truth and so do others but it's their choice to not accept Christ. You will not be able to lie to God so their will be no excuses like I didn't know. You just didn't answer the call and that's your choice not satans.

I just answered your questions and I talked about the carnal mind how the mark of the beast is a number of a man and you said nothing. You didn't want answers, you just blindly started talking about loopholes instead of plot holes because you don't want the truth of the Word, you want to reject and deny the truth and the Bible says you hold it in unrighteousness.

I will pray for you and I hope your heart is changed towards God's Profound Love and Grace through Jesus Christ.

originally posted by: neoholographic
I have been debating for years and I have never debated someone that didn't connect satan and devour to that verse.

That is your problem, not joecroft's .

We seem to be drifting away from the central argument of the thread, which is that according to theists all atheists are terribly angry. As we seem to have disproved that argument, perhaps this theological argument of if the myth of satan exists or if he/she/it/they prove that another myth lost control of their creation could be moved to its own thread? At present we seem to be descending into the long weeds of chunks of a book of myths being cited to, erm, *checks notes* prove that a book myths is 'real'.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg
While I agree to a point, I think the turn in the discussion is relevant because we are trying to explain why the bible comes off as a just a book of myths to some of us.

Obviously not an easy thing for believers to wrap their heads around.

In that same vain I will mention the story of the tower of Babel as being another story in the bible that sounds too out there.

originally posted by: neoholographic

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: saadad

Once again, for those who have not been paying attention or who cannot wrap their heads around the concept: atheists don't care about something that does not exist.

Sure they do. All atheist do is talk about God who they claim doesn't exist. If you asked 100 people on the street, what's an atheist, God will be mentioned in some way 99% of the time.

You can't be an atheist if God doesn't exist.

Like I said, this is why atheist are so angry at God. Have you ever watched a Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens debate? They talk about God. They're angry.

The Bible tells us why:

Romans 1:20 “For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:”

Atheist know God exists. They clearly understand this and the knowledge of God is in their conscious. Atheists are angry because they hate the fact that they can't remove the truth of God's existence from their conscious.

Maybe it's time for some atheists to start accepting the truth of God and the Grace given through Christ and stop resisting what their conscious knows to be true.

I have been reading the thread and I agree with the OP. I think this is the central issue. Atheist are angry that they can’t remove the knowledge of God from their conscience. This thread is 26 pages long mainly because of atheist that can’t stop talking about God. It’s sort of like a self fulfilling prophecy. You say, Atheist are angry at God then atheist prove you’re right by obsessing about it. They can’t remove the knowledge of God from their conscience.

I wonder if this has anything to do with the end times.

originally posted by: Romeopsi
This thread is 26 pages long mainly because of atheist that can’t stop talking about God.

You could also say it is because theists can’t stop talking about atheists/atheism.

Honestly, I don't think either of those statements is true.

It is 26 pages long because some people don't understand how their religious text is seen as myths by others.

Reminds me of something Ricky Gervais once said "We are both atheists, I just happen to believe in one fewer god than you."

originally posted by: Romeopsi

originally posted by: neoholographic

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: saadad

Once again, for those who have not been paying attention or who cannot wrap their heads around the concept: atheists don't care about something that does not exist.

Sure they do. All atheist do is talk about God who they claim doesn't exist. If you asked 100 people on the street, what's an atheist, God will be mentioned in some way 99% of the time.

You can't be an atheist if God doesn't exist.

Like I said, this is why atheist are so angry at God. Have you ever watched a Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens debate? They talk about God. They're angry.

The Bible tells us why:

Romans 1:20 “For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:”

Atheist know God exists. They clearly understand this and the knowledge of God is in their conscious. Atheists are angry because they hate the fact that they can't remove the truth of God's existence from their conscious.

Maybe it's time for some atheists to start accepting the truth of God and the Grace given through Christ and stop resisting what their conscious knows to be true.

I have been reading the thread and I agree with the OP. I think this is the central issue. Atheist are angry that they can’t remove the knowledge of God from their conscience. This thread is 26 pages long mainly because of atheist that can’t stop talking about God. It’s sort of like a self fulfilling prophecy. You say, Atheist are angry at God then atheist prove you’re right by obsessing about it. They can’t remove the knowledge of God from their conscience.

I wonder if this has anything to do with the end times.

Good points and this is true. They can't remove the knowledge of God from their conscious. This is why they can't stop talking about God who they say doesn't exist. The Bible says:

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

The Bible tells us why they're angry and they can't stop talking about God. It's because they don't like to retain God in their knowledge.

It explains a lot about the end times and what we're about to see. We have seen it with the tower of babel, it's mystery babylon and the push by the pope and imam for this human fraternity.

It's the human carnal mind wanting to do things it's way without God. This is why the mark of the beast is the number of a man.

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Like I was saying earlier, it's not the devil made me do it. The heart of man is wicked all on it's own.

Jeremiah 17:9 - The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Mark 7:21 - For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

a reply to: neoholographic

Originally posted by neoholographic
The verse is well known and you thought you had a gotcha moment but when I explained the context of the verse and you saw it didn't fit your narrative, you tried to change it up.

But I never mentionmed any verses in my original post…this post

You brought that verse up because you thought the context/meaning was about Satan psychically afflicting people…(fair mistake to make)….but that just wasn’t the case…as I've stated multiple times now...

How many times do with have to go through this…?

Originally posted by neoholographic
I have been debating for years and I have never debated someone that didn't connect satan and devour to that verse. You will be the first to mention satan and devour with no idea about that verse.

If you would have just said tempt, I wouldn't have mentioned the verse but you said devour. Of course you will act like you never heard the verse and you just said it out of the blue and that's because the context of the verse doesn't fit your loophole/plot hole narrative.

But the context I was meaning didn’t’ fit that verse Anyway!!!…because I was meaning it to be about Souls being deceived and lost…

I used the word “devour” in the sense of Souls being lost…So my context/meaning was never about psychical affliction by Satan…you made that leap…not me…

You basically took the word “devour” in my post…and tried to make it all about the verse (1 Peter 5:8)…A verse that I never even mentioned prior…or alluded to…And now you’re perpetually accusing me of some “gotcha moment” in regards to it…

You need to rectify this situation in your next reply…

Originally posted by neoholographic
How's satan deceiving you? How's satan stopping you from accepting Christ?

How are you deceived in not finding the truth? How is satan stopping you from reading the Word of God and giving your life to Christ?

You wanted a cohenrent question from this post so I gave you one…but you still haven’t answered the question, with someonething which actually makes sense…

And now you’re asking me a bunch of questions…as if the focus is all on one individual…

Like I said in my previous post, I'm looking at this from the perspective of the whole…i.e. my question isn’t about one person or me specifically…it’s about the whole of humanity…

The heart of my question…is about concern for the whole…

Originally posted by neoholographic
Sadly, you're just looking for these non existent loopholes that you conjured up in your mind. That's stopping you from finding the truth not satan.

But the Bible states that Satan is a lier and a deceiver…so people could get deceived by that Evil entity…it’s completely in line with what the Bible says…

So no…it’s not just in my mind…

Originally posted by neoholographic
You know the truth and so do others but it's their choice to not accept Christ. You will not be able to lie to God so their will be no excuses like I didn't know. You just didn't answer the call and that's your choice not satans.

You keep saying I know the Truth…what truth are you talking about…

Surely there’s a time when you don’t know the truth and then a time when you do…

Anyway…Like I was saying in this post

Originally posted by Joecroft
You say I have the freewill choice to accept or reject it but…

…you made this post below in response to another poster in this thread…

Originally posted by neoholographic
Your questions supports scripture.

I wasn't born in a different land. The Bible says:

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

So again, I wasn't born in a different land. I was predestinated to be born here and to follow His Purpose.

Originally posted by Joecroft
If it’s all predestined…how do I have a choice…

According to those verses you quoted it’s all preordained…but according to Jesus anyone can seek the truth and find it…

You didn’t answer the question…

- JC

I'd like to see a thread from Creationists/Christians, attacking other religions for a change.

a reply to: Joecroft

Have you ever read 1 Peter 5:8 before your post?

Like I said, I have been debating atheist for years and it the same gotcha game. You were so sure you found a loophole/plot hole and then when you heard the context didn't support your narrative you act like you had no idea about the verse. If I would have said The Bible doesn't say anything about devour, you would have broke your fingers typing 1 Peter 5:8 to get your gotcha moment.

You asked:

If it’s all predestined…how do I have a choice…

According to those verses you quoted it’s all preordained…but according to Jesus anyone can seek the truth and find it…

I saw this question when you posted and I said you will ask it again once the "devour" narrative didn't work for you and here we are.

The question you're asking is actually more evidence that God Created the universe.

God is outside of space and time so he can see our worldline in space-time from beginning to end. God is outside of space and time but we make choices inside of space-time. God can see the choices that we're going to make and he gives us the free will to make those choices.

This actually matches Relativity and the block universe of Einstein. You can see this again in this verse:

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

God is outside space and time and saw a timeline of our worldline where no flesh was saved. So He has to shorten the days of Christ return.

You also have the death of local realism due to things like quantum mechanics and Bell's Theorem. So some scientist have to appeal to what's called superdeterminism. Sadly for them, superdeterminism supports what I'm saying and answers your question. First, the death of local realism.

Death by experiment for local realism

A fundamental scientific assumption called local realism conflicts with certain predictions of quantum mechanics. Those predictions have now been verified, with none of the loopholes that have compromised earlier tests.

www.nature.com...

Here's more about superdeterminism:

A universe existing in a Divine Mind outside of time would have all of the characteristics of Superdeterminism that Hossenfelder rightly endorses, and yet this Divine thought still permits genuine human freedom. There is no contradiction between Superdeterminism and free will when all of nature is understood as a thought in God’s Mind.

It is noteworthy that physicists Nicholas Gisin, Antoine Suarez and John Bell himself noted that something “outside space and time” was a solution to the problem of nonlocality in Bell’s theorem and the experiments that followed on it. We again see that an inference to our Creator helps us to solve problems in science and gain much deeper insight into the truth about our created universe. There is more to be said on Superdeterminism and the Thomistic understanding of free will but that goes a bit beyond the scope of this post. Suffice to say that I think Hossenfelder is on the right track in endorsing Superdeterminism as a fruitful theory in physics, but her denial of free will is self-refuting.

Superdeterminism is Divine Providence and God Who is outside time knows (but does not force) our free choices. These two truths are completely compatible and provide an excellent solution to one of the most difficult problems in physics.

mindmatters.ai...

So again, this is saying God who's outside of space and time predetermines all things except for our choices which he allows for us to make. This is backed up by science which shows local realism is dead because of correlations that are non-local. So God predetermines how the universe is Created and the fine tuned constants of our universe while allowing for beings to have free will to make a choice in space-time while God is outside of space and time and sees all from beginning to end.

In yet another blow for determinism and their materialistic outlook is a thread I just started that talks about how scientist were trying to find naturalness to explain the fine tuning but they found none and now they want to abandon reductionism which Christians have been saying is a joke for years. You don't need reductionism because God Created the universe. Here's the thread:

Science finds more evidence of God's Creation
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here's a quote from the article:

The crisis became undeniable in 2016, when, despite a major upgrade, the Large Hadron Collider in Geneva still hadn’t conjured up any of the new elementary particles that theorists had been expecting for decades. The swarm of additional particles would have solved a major puzzle about an already known one, the famed Higgs boson. The hierarchy problem, as the puzzle is called, asks why the Higgs boson is so lightweight — a hundred million billion times less massive than the highest energy scales that exist in nature. The Higgs mass seems unnaturally dialed down relative to these higher energies, as if huge numbers in the underlying equation that determines its value all miraculously cancel out.

link to article

They didn't miraculously cancel out, this is just what happens when intelligence Creates.

Now, you will claim I didn't answer your question when obviously I did. It's what atheist do in these debates, they conjure up a strawman and then when they get the answer they act like you didn't answer the question.

originally posted by: daskakik

It would seem that satan has reign over the world, even if Jesus didn't accept the offer.

And the basic argument that I have put forth is, why would a loving parent let a deviant reign over the lives of his children?

Jesus overcame the world. The choice is ours, do we want to be with our step-father, or pur real Father? God can't force the decision on us. If we are tempted by the frivolous gifts we get from our step-father then we are blinded to our birthright with our real Father.

Basically it makes no sense, to my mind, to say god loves all of humanity and loathes satan but still allows him to drag down as many humans as he can.

So your issue is still regarding people's free will to choose the lord of evil or the Lord of Good?

What happened to Job when let go of his evil pride and chose God? He was blessed abundantly.

originally posted by: cooperton
If we are tempted by the frivolous gifts we get from our step-father then we are blinded to our birthright with our real Father.

But you are automatically assuming your real father is the better person.

Plus you skirted my actual point.

Using your analogy, what kind of father abandons his kids and allows someone to enter their life who is bad for them?

So your issue is still regarding people's free will to choose the lord of evil or the Lord of Good?

What happened to Job when let go of his evil pride and chose God? He was blessed abundantly.

No, my issue is that I don't believe the story to be true.

There came a point in my life when the stories in the bible started to sound like other myths. Just like the stories of other gods probably sound to most christians.

Imagine a thread titled "Why are Christans so angry with Zeus?" that goes on to say it is because in your mind you believe in Yahweh but in your heart and soul you know Zeus is really the top god.

Then you go back and forth for 100 pages trying to explain that you honestly don't even believe that Zeus exists but a group of ATS members can't wrap their minds around that being possible.

a reply to: daskakik

Your analogy makes no sense.

The reason this thread is so long is because Atheist can't stop talking about God. An atheist doesn't exist unless God exists. How can you be an atheist without the existence of God?

You're on this thread more than anyone talking about God.

That's the point. The Bible tells us it's because people retain the knowledge of God in their consciousness and they hold the truth in unrighteousness.

The reason atheist attack Christianity is because of the powerful message of the Cross. If you water down the message of Christ they will love you. Look at Pope Francis. Atheist and securalist love the guy.

If you talk about saving the planet and universal religion all under some human fraternity and have a pagan ritual at the Vatican, then Christianity is okay to atheist and secularist.

As soon as you talk about the message of Grace on the Cross and say Jesus is the way, truth and the life, you're a fundamentalist.

This again goes to my point. I can list 100 pages of debates on youtube and comments on ATS from atheist talking about God, Christ and Christian believers in horrible ways. That's not the point though.

The question is, why are atheist angry at God? It's because behind all of the bluster in debates or on ATS they can't escape the truth of God. So questions like "Does God exist?" or "How can evolution explain consciousness?" keeps popping up. The Bible says:

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

This is a perfect description of an atheist.

This is why you spend so much time looking for loopholes or plot holes. You're trying to convince yourselves that you're right.

This is because atheism has no basis in reality. As a believer, I admit I don't know everything and I can't know everything. I have faith in God the Creator of all things.

What's atheism based on? This is why I asked these questions:

1. How can you conclude God doesn't exist with such limited information? We're a type 0 civilization that hasn't been back to the moon in 53 years. We haven't even fully explored our own backyard, yet you conclude that there's no God?

2. How do you conclude that there's no afterlife? Resuscitation techniques are pushing the time of death back further and further. We now know the brain is still active even when the heart has stopped pumping blood to the brain. How can you know there's no afterlife with such limited knowledge?

3. How can atheists conclude that we're the highest form of intelligence that has ever existed? We're in a universe scientists say is 13.8 billion years old. They then have to appeal to a multiverse or 10^500 false vacua to try to explain the fine tuned universe. So many of them believe the universe is infinite. So in a 13.8 billion year old universe that may be a speck in the eyes of infinity, how can an atheist conclude that humans are the only and highest form of intelligence, knowledge, wisdom and understanding that exists or has ever existed? How can you make such a conclusion with such limited knowledge?

There were no answers when I asked the questions so maybe atheist will answer now.

What's atheism based on? I have a lack of knowledge and I have faith that God knows all. An atheist has a lack of knowledge and we're a type 0 civilization, so what do you base your assertions on that God doesn't exist, there's no form of intelligence higher than humans and there's no life after death?

originally posted by: neoholographic
That's the point. The Bible tells us it's because people retain the knowledge of God in their consciousness and they hold the truth in unrighteousness.

That is your theory but I'm not here to talk about god but to share why I don't believe, which seems incomprehensible to you.

The reason atheist attack Christianity is because of the powerful message of the Cross.

Wrong, I don't believe in any gods, not just yours.

There were no answers when I asked the questions so maybe atheist will answer now.

Here you go:
1. The same way you conclude there is based on the same limited information.

2. I do believe in the afterlife, so N/A.

3. I don't know any atheists who say we're the highest form of intelligence that has ever existed, so, again, N/A.

And that is why you didn't get answers from me the other times you asked those question.

I think I wrote somewhere in this thread, but I can't remember what it was.
But something came to mind recently.

I know JB Peterson recently approached "god" a little more himself, without actually saying he believed in "God".
But it was something he said earlier that set of a chain of events in my brain that made me come to some personal realisations about my relationship to the concept of "God" as an atheist.

For a long time I was not angry at God. My anger was more directed towards those whose beliefs I considered a sign of weakness or a way to let go of personal responsibility. I just couldn't get my head around why anyone would choose to put their own destiny in the hands of an unconfirmed fictional character. God's way, God's will etc.

I firmly believe that my path is my own and what happens is due to the chain of events I set in motion from what I do or choose not to do.

At the same time, I came to understand psychological parts of myself and young life. How because of unresolved trauma in my young years, I have a part of me that feels a need to be taken care of. The inner child. And from him came the creation of the person I am today. Sometimes the today person is really the inner child, wearing a mask, pretending to be.

Now JB Peterson has done an amazing job of bridging psychology with religion, and Alan Watts, whom I also listened to a great deal did the same, although with a more philosophical aspect to it.

What I came to understand and now believe, and why I can now say "Yes, I'm angry at God.", is the realisation that "God" is something that is about us.

It is not a seperate concept or seperate being.

You could very well argue that "God" is a higher being, but from the point of view that it represents the utmost pure representation of oneself that is possible. The "highest good".

So does that mean I hate myself? Well yes and no.

The anger arises from a given moments realisation that I at that moment don't feel like it's possible for me to achieve this highest form of possible good. But I can see it clearly... it's mocking me, or, I'm letting my unachieved version of myself feel mocked by this ideal.

And then comes the almost childlike reaction to something that is difficult, to which we also don't feel like we are getting the support to achieve, like a kid who quits soccer because someone else scores more goals than him during training....... I get angry. I curse this "God". While secretly I wish, oh I wish I knew how to attain being that person.

Pain leads to suffering, leads to anger, leads to hatred. (Yes I just wrote that... sorry, but it's so accurate).

At this point in time, I don't as such hate people who worship. It's more of a pity feeling. Because they are pretty much stuck in the same situation as me, they just replaced the God image with something external, because it's easier.

I'm getting better at accepting who I am. And the irony is that in those moments where I do see clearly and almost spot a way to attain that highest good, what I see is that the highest good version of myself, is really not that different from the me I am now. It's really just a version where I have made peace with my past, the traumatic moments in my life and accepted to be "who I am" through being open about what I think, like and enjoy, rather than trying to fit in.

Oh how complex the human mind and society is. And yet, we are all so much the same.

a reply to: daskakik

Your non answers show why atheism is so illogical. You said:

1. The same way you conclude there is based on the same limited information.

No, I have faith in God that's the Creator of all things. So I have a lack of knowledge and limited information without God. You have limited information so what are you basing your conclusion on?

I can see if atheist were just agnostics that say they lack a belief in God. This is subjective and it's about their belief. You can't say it's based on the knowledge of a type 0 civilization. That would be illogical.

You said:

2. I do believe in the afterlife, so N/A.

If you believe in an afterlife then you're not an atheist. You're agnostic. What is your evidence that God isn't in this afterlife you believe in? If you have no evidence then you're not an atheist you're an agnostic. I remember now, you even said something about not knowing about this afterlife you believe in. What's the nature of this afterlife? Why do you think there's an afterlife?

You said:

3. I don't know any atheists who say we're the highest form of intelligence that has ever existed, so, again, N/A.

If you're an atheist you have to believe we're the highest form of intelligence that exists or has ever existed. God is a higher intelligence. If you believe this, you're an agnostic not an atheist.

When atheist say they have a lack of belief, that's their subjective belief system. Many atheist make statements of fact that they can't know because there's no basis for them to know.

They say things like God doesn't exist and when you die, that's it. These are illogical statements of fact. How can you know these things when we're a type 0 civilization. Here's more on this:

All of this may sound fairly advanced — we’ve come a long way from just using logs to fuel our everyday lives. Yet in reality, we’re really quite primitive compared to where we could be. We still get the majority of our energy from dead plants and animals, a source that will eventually run out sooner or later.

So where do we place on the Kardashev scale? We’re a zero: 0.72, to be more exact. Here’s what we need to move forward.

A Type IV civilization would be undetectable to us. It would be able to harness the entire energy of the universe and move across all of space, appearing as nothing more than a work of nature. Some speculate that giant voids in space, like the one 1.8 billion light years across and missing 90% of its galaxies, could be proof of a civilization making use of the universe. But a civilization this advanced might not even harness energy as we know it anymore, choosing instead to move into more exotic substances, like dark energy. They might also live inside black holes, controlling 10⁴⁶ watts of energy. These feats are very sci-fi and, as far as we know, impossible to accomplish. But then again we’re a lowly Type 0 civilization with no idea what may lie ahead.

It gets even more fantastical when one considers a Type V master race that would function like gods, able to harness energy not only from this universe, but all universes in all dimensions. Its energy usage and access to knowledge would be incomprehensible.

medium.com...

So it's obvious that atheism has no basis in fact when it makes statements like God doesn't exist.

Let me ask you:

How do you exclude God from this afterlife you believe in?

This reminds me of Paul when he talked about the unknown God.

Acts 17:22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.

23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

Again, how can you exclude God from this afterlife you believe in?