Why are atheist so angry with God?

originally posted by: Kreeate

Same way YOU would have a problem if Satan, Mohammad etc. was pushed onto you the way that Christianity is pushed on people.

See how that works?

Actually I don't believe in God...

Has it really been shoved down your throat? I posted a few posts ago that in my 61 years it has never been thrown in my face, and the vast majority of people with faith are very nice about it all.

originally posted by: daskakik

Everyone keeps focusing on satan. The point is that if he isn't faking it and he is in gods inner circle, god doesn't actually have a problem with evil, since he is glad to partner with someone who is.

A part of the nature order of things I guess. BTW what is Satan anyways? Seems to be just the evils of man. The number of the beast 666 is the number of man, so it all seems to be more of the evil of man than some horned evil angle.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
A part of the nature order of things I guess.

But we are not discussing the natural order of things but what the bible says about god and his hate of sin and sinners.

BTW what is Satan anyways?

According to the bible a fallen angel that rebelled against god.

Some say it happened right before god created man.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
Because cult ideology is transparently smug self serving shlock. There's nothing wise, profound or noble in any comment I've ever read from you. I disdain your so called spiritual influences because you don't have any.

If "God" wants to know what I think and why, s/he knows where to find me. That dialogue is likely above your pay grade.

Cult ideology?... The cult ideology which murdered the most people in the 20 and 21st century was... ATHEISM... Communist Russia, China, Cuba, North Korea, etc.

Communist atheists have murdered at least 110-120 plus million people and imprisoned in concentration camps, gulags or "indoctrination camps" millions more. Communist atheists have murdered and imprisoned more people than all other wars, including both World Wars, and minor battles combined.
Those numbers don't even account for military deaths/murders. It only accounts for civilian murders/deaths by Atheist communists.

...
In sum the communist probably have murdered something like 110,000,000, or near two-thirds of all those killed by all governments, quasi-governments, and guerrillas from 1900 to 1987. Of course, the world total itself it shocking. It is several times the 38,000,000 battle-dead that have been killed in all this century's international and domestic wars. Yet the probable number of murders by the Soviet Union alone--one communist country-- well surpasses this cost of war. And those murders of communist China almost equal it.
...

HOW MANY DID COMMUNIST REGIMES MURDER?*

God/Jesus say/said "thou shall not kill", however God/Jesus allow people to defend themselves. When you believe that God is the only one who can determine who dies or who lives it is a deterrent. But atheists like you believe all starts and ends with you and you have the right to decide who lives or dies, which is why so many atheists have murdered millions of people.

So, if anyone is in a cult of death, it is people like you. Not all atheists are like you, but when you have no moral or compulsion to avoid murder you are more likely to murder people because you believe that power resides only in you.

As for "smug self serving shlock"?... Look in a mirror pal.

If we look at who is more likely these days to murder? Atheists believe in abortion more than religious people. As it is abortion is an ideology of white nationalists like Margaret Sanger who believed she had the right to decide what Americans should live, or die. To this day those who follow the "death cult of Margaret Sanger" are mostly "atheists."

Atheist doctors and philosophers don't stop in their belief that they, and other atheists, should be able to murder the unborn. There are already many "atheists/progressives" who believe "after-birth abortion" should not be a crime, and that "parents should be able to decide to murder their newborn children even if they have no health problems..."

So it is obvious that "the cult of Death" continue to be atheists/progressives.

How many millions of babies have been murdered because you atheists believe it is okay to murder human unborn for any reason? how many millions of girls have been murdered by ATHEIST China because they have no compulsion to revere HUMAN LIFE?

Your atheist/progressive professors, doctors, philosophers like Peter Singer not only call for infanticide to be legal, but they acknowledge that the argument for "abortion" can also be used to call for infanticide and genocide of those YOU/atheists believe don't have a right to live.

Peter Singer’s Bold Defense of Infanticide

Alberto Giubilini1, Francesca Minerva2

Correspondence to Dr Francesca Minerva, CAPPE, University of Melbourne, Melbourne, VIC 3010, Australia; [email protected]

Abstract

Abortion is largely accepted even for reasons that do not have anything to do with the fetus' health. By showing that (1) both fetuses and newborns do not have the same moral status as actual persons, (2) the fact that both are potential persons is morally irrelevant and (3) adoption is not always in the best interest of actual people, the authors argue that what we call ‘after-birth abortion’ (killing a newborn) should be permissible in all the cases where abortion is, including cases where the newborn is not disabled.

After-birth abortion: why should the baby live?

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: neoholographic
I see you looking for excuses instead of realizing there are in fact plot holes. When I came across them I was still trying to maintain my faith but being objective, I just couldn't.

Why wouldn't Satan be among the sons of god?

Maybe because he had already been exiled? Remember Satan fell before Adam and Eve and Job was after that.

I don't understand where is the "plot hole"

That God allows Satan freedom when he could just destroy him now if he wanted?

If that's it I don't see any "plot hole"

Which the Bible will never have because it is from the mind of God and divinely inspired through the Holy Spirit......

God's ways are infinitely beyond man's thoughts.....

Anything we interpret as a "plot hole" is either a mystery or a thinking error derived through the lense of an individual's beliefs and perspective....

Why doesn't God just snap his finger and end Satan and fix all the suffering and save us all right this instant?

I don't know, but I don't dare think God has an ego and can't answer the tough questions that atheists think prove so much, or think I am in any place to pass judgement on the way the Most High operates...sq

a reply to: GoShredAK
www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: daskakik

Some say it happened right before god created man.

OK, you do know you are talking to a person that doesn't believe in God, but can see how religion is at a fundamental level of what humans are, right? How much of the bible is a metaphor?

The bottom-line here is humans would not be human without religion as we see it 1000 different ways throughout our existence, and you want to debate Satan...lol.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: neoholographic
You just keep repeating your weak excuses.

I'll see if I can dumb it down for you.

A. We are told nobody who is a sinner can enter the kingdom of god.

B. We are told satan has been sinning since the beginning.

C. We are told satan enters the kingdom of god.

Doesn't add up unless god and satan have a special relationship, life a friendship even.

Which kingdom?

There will be a whole new kingdom and earth

There, there will be no sin......

It's your cherry picked base understanding of the bible leading you astray.....

You won't get true revelations unless you study with a heart thirsty for knowledge and wisdom....

It's obvious you have not put your heart into learning about these things and are basically using stock atheist dogmas as your foundation.

Scriptures used out of context used to support bias's.

If you pray to Jesus and put some honest time into the word of God things will come together in your mind.

originally posted by: GoShredAK
Which kingdom?

Heaven, the place the bible says you can't enter without the lamb cleansing your sins.

If you pray to Jesus and put some honest time into the word of God things will come together in your mind.

I did for years and it worked, until it stopped working.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
OK, you do know you are talking to a person that doesn't believe in God, but can see how religion is at a fundamental level of what humans are, right?

Yes, I saw a previous post of yours saying that you don't believe in god and you are also correct in saying religion is at a fundamental level of what humans are.

How much of the bible is a metaphor?

I don't think anybody knows.

The problem with metaphor is that it turns the bible into Aesop's fables. A work of fiction that lays down some truths but isn't really true but that isn't how many christians look at it.

That is why I am discussing it as if it where all true, except the parts where obviously metaphor is used in the text, to discuss something that I found to be contradictory to the story, if taken that way.

The bottom-line here is humans would not be human without religion as we see it 1000 different ways throughout our existence, and you want to debate Satan...lol.

No, I want to debate the inconsistency in the story, which puts in doubt the veracity of the bible.

ETA: And, it has more to do with the idea of who god is and what he can and can't accept than satan.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: GoShredAK
Which kingdom?

Heaven, the place the bible says you can't enter without the lamb cleansing your sins.

If you pray to Jesus and put some honest time into the word of God things will come together in your mind.

I did for years and it worked, until it stopped working.

I'm sorry to hear that..........I can look back on my hardships and what looked like unanswered prayers now and see clearly Jesus was still there.....

Those trials and lessons serve me so much that I'm grateful for the bad things that happened.....through the dark times I have been given a mental strength and peaceful secure perspective that I value so much.

God never promises things will be pleasant and easy, you might get your head chopped off......but this life is nothing to get so uppity about when compared to our true nature.

As for which Kingdom........the Bible says there will be a new heaven so I'm assuming a completely separate place from what currently exists.....

I could be wrong but I think revelation backs that up.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: GoShredAK
Which kingdom?

Heaven, the place the bible says you can't enter without the lamb cleansing your sins.

If you pray to Jesus and put some honest time into the word of God things will come together in your mind.

I did for years and it worked, until it stopped working.

Then there is no excuse for you. If you knew God once and reject him now, then you're just trolling like how you normally do on ATS. You're someone who literally argues just to argue. If you knew God via Jesus Christ, then you know the truth and still reject it which is the absolute worst situation to be in spiritually.. That's worse than ignorance which is humanities biggest pass against sin. But you just wanna argue and be a pain in the ass. Perhaps the almighty will bonk you on the head and help you in only a way he can, but you will not find whatever you are seeking here. Other than just more circular arguments over and over. It doesn't matter the topic you just argue about everything all the time. Whatever floats your boat buddy.

a reply to: GoShredAK
The thing isn't the location, it is the guy in charge, who the bible says can't stand sinners but the book of Job makes it look like he doesn't have a problem with them coming into his home.

I understand how you feel, I was there myself, at one point in my life. I'm just not there anymore.

What bugs me about this thread is someone telling me what I "must" believe or what I "must" be feeling.

The OP asked 3 questions on the last page, I'm going to copy paste them and shorten them a little:

1. How can you conclude God doesn't exist with such limited information?

2. How do you conclude that there's no afterlife?

3. How can atheist conclude that we're the highest form of intelligence that has ever existed?

I didn't reply to both his posts with that text because they don't apply to me.

Number one cuts both ways, with such limited information how can you say Yahweh is the ultimate god?

Number two, I'm an atheist but I believe there is something after this life.

Number three, I have never heard atheists say "we're the highest form of intelligence that has ever existed". They/we just say we don't believe the story you believe in.

a reply to: Wookiep
Personally, I'm surprised you would say that to me.

Let me tell you a little story, about 10 years ago my family came to visit. They brought along a very sweet old lady. They were here for a while, about a month.

One day the conversation came up about faith. Feeling like I had to represent I mentioned that I was atheist.

This very sharp old lady looked at me and said in earnest: "Sweetheart you can't be atheist because I can feel you have a good heart".

I wasn't going to argue with her because she was right, or at least I would like to think so.

The thing is that, despite being an atheist, I have no beef with people who follow one religion or another. It is just where their environment has taken them to.

That said, we are talking about christianity and the base for that is the bible and I am merely pointing out what, in that very massive book, turned me off.

All this thread has done so far is a) reinforce my belief that atheism is the right road for me as b) theists seem to be the angry ones, shouting that their interpretation of their book of myths is the only right one.
And wow, you people are angry.
Chill people, chill. If we atheists deny your made-up god, we are allowed to do that. It's a free, vast, ancient, universe. Just stop being so angry that we atheists exist.

a reply to: daskakik

Cool story, and that's great with the old woman etc. But when you're sitting in the absence of God, (Anything and all things of God are good) in deep space, all by yourself, you will have no one to argue with but yourself.

Your conscience will understand your self-centered view of reality and you will only be able to argue with yourself. While you sit in space all alone, no light, no companions to argue with, only then you will understand what existence without God means.

When God allows a tiny point of light in the far distance of space, you will appreciate God more than you ever thought possible. We can't even know what "good" is, until we understand that evil exists. You can't appreciate any good thing without experiencing darkness first.

[SNIP]

Double post

originally posted by: Xtrozero

BTW what is Satan anyways?

originally posted by: daskakik

According to the bible a fallen angel that rebelled against god.

Earlier daskakik said: "There is no verse that says satan betrayed god." Isn't rebelling against God a form of betrayal? It certainly isn't a demonstration of loyalty.

Consider Bible translator William Tyndale, who mistakenly accepted Henry Phillips as a loyal friend. In 1535 Phillips disloyally betrayed Tyndale to his enemies, leading to Tyndale’s immediate imprisonment and untimely death. One historian says that Phillips, probably an agent of either the English king or the English Catholics, “was well paid for his Judas-work.” The historian was alluding, of course, to Judas Iscariot, who accepted 30 pieces of silver as the price for betraying Jesus Christ. Another individual who was neither a loyal friend to Jesus Christ nor Jehovah God.

Of course, you could be applying neoholographic's concept of betrayal, as if it requires one to be able to succesfully deceive the one betrayed (that's the gist I got from his response pointing out that because God is all-knowing, he cannot be betrayed, implying a certain amount of deception being involved).

But for me, the concept of betrayal is linked to the concept of disloyalty (vs loyalty), just like the concept of rebellion against God is a form of disloyalty for an angel that used to be in the service of God like the other angels.

Where did the Devil come from? Originally created as a perfect spirit creature in heaven, this outlaw angel made himself the Devil when he became obsessed with the desire to have humans worship him instead of God. That was a disloyal betrayal of God and a rebellion against God. This was not part of his job description, and neither was "tempting the new creation" (quoting daskakik). Furthermore, it was clearly against God's will, something the Devil was not unaware of, hence a disloyal betrayal and rebellion.

Betrayal—An Ominous Sign of the Times! (2012)

“How loyal and righteous and unblamable we proved to be.”​—1 THESS. 2:10.

...

WHAT do Delilah, Absalom, and Judas Iscariot have in common? They were all disloyal​—Delilah to the man who loved her, Judge Samson; Absalom to his father, King David; Judas to his Master, Christ Jesus. In each case, their deplorable actions wreaked havoc on others! But why should this be of concern to us?

A modern-day author lists betrayal among today’s most common vices. That is to be expected. When giving the sign of “the conclusion of the system of things,” Jesus said: “Many . . . will betray one another.” (Matt. 24:3, 10) “To betray” means “to give up to, or place in the power of an enemy, by treachery or disloyalty.” Such a lack of loyalty confirms that we are living in “the last days” when, Paul foretold, people would be “disloyal, . . . betrayers.” (2 Tim. 3:1, 2, 4) Even though authors and screenwriters often dramatize and romanticize treacherous acts in literature and in the movies, in real life disloyalty and betrayal cause pain and suffering. Indeed, such acts are an ominous sign of the times!

What lessons can we learn from the Bible about those who were disloyal in the past? What examples of people who proved their devotion to others can we imitate? And to whom must we remain steadfast in our loyalty? Let us see.

...

Loyalty (Insight on the Scriptures)

In the Hebrew Scriptures, the adjective cha·sidhʹ is used of “someone loyal,” or “one of loving-kindness.” (Ps 18:25, ftn) The noun cheʹsedh has reference to kindness but contains more than the thought of tender regard or kindness stemming from love, though it includes such traits. It is kindness that lovingly attaches itself to an object until its purpose in connection with that object is realized. Such is the sort of kindness that God expresses toward his servants and that they express toward him. It therefore comes into the field of loyalty, a righteous, devoted, holy loyalty, and is variously rendered “loving-kindness” and “loyal love.”​—Ge 20:13; 21:23; see KINDNESS.

In the Greek Scriptures the noun ho·si·oʹtes and the adjective hoʹsi·os carry the thought of holiness, righteousness, reverence; being devout, pious; the careful observance of all duties toward God. It involves a right relationship with God.

There appear to be no English words that exactly express the full meaning of the Hebrew and Greek words, but “loyalty,” including, as it does, the thought of devotion and faithfulness, when used in connection with God and his service, serves to give an approximation. The best way to determine the full meaning of the Bible terms in question is to examine their usage in the Bible.

Jehovah’s Loyalty. Jehovah God the Most Holy One, who is devoted to righteousness and who exercises unbreakable loving-kindness toward those who serve him, deals in righteousness and trueness even with his enemies and is eminently dependable. It is said of him: “Great and wonderful are your works, Jehovah God, the Almighty. Righteous and true are your ways, King of eternity. Who will not really fear you, Jehovah, and glorify your name, because you alone are loyal?” (Re 15:3, 4) Because Jehovah’s loyalty to righteousness and justice, as well as his love for his people, prompts him to take needed judicial action, an angel was moved to say: “You, the One who is and who was, the loyal One, are righteous, because you have rendered these decisions.”​—Re 16:5; compare Ps 145:17.

...

It should be fairly obvious that Satan the Devil is not a loyal servant of God doing His bidding in "tempting the new creation", as some people view it. I.e. that's not what the Bible teaches about Satan. There is no loyal love in Satan towards God. He does not loyally serve God.

LESSON 8: Why Does God Allow Evil and Suffering? (Good News From God!)
Why Does God Allow Suffering? (What Does the Bible Really Teach?)

...

Let us consider an illustration. Imagine that a teacher is telling his students how to solve a difficult problem. A clever but rebellious student claims that the teacher’s way of solving the problem is wrong. Implying that the teacher is not capable, this rebel insists that he knows a much better way to solve the problem. Some students think that he is right, and they also become rebellious. What should the teacher do? If he throws the rebels out of the class, what will be the effect on the other students? Will they not believe that their fellow student and those who joined him are right? All the other students in the class might lose respect for the teacher, thinking that he is afraid of being proved wrong. But suppose that the teacher allows the rebel to show the class how he would solve the problem.

Jehovah has done something similar to what the teacher does. Remember that the rebels in Eden were not the only ones involved. Millions of angels were watching. (Job 38:7; Daniel 7:10) How Jehovah handled the rebellion would greatly affect all those angels and eventually all intelligent creation. So, what has Jehovah done? He has allowed Satan to show how he would rule mankind. God has also allowed humans to govern themselves under Satan’s guidance.

The teacher in our illustration knows that the rebel and the students on his side are wrong. But he also knows that allowing them the opportunity to try to prove their point will benefit the whole class. When the rebels fail, all honest students will see that the teacher is the only one qualified to lead the class. They will understand why the teacher thereafter removes any rebels from the class. Similarly, Jehovah knows that all honesthearted humans and angels will benefit from seeing that Satan and his fellow rebels have failed and that humans cannot govern themselves. Like Jeremiah of old, they will learn this vital truth: “I well know, O Jehovah, that man’s way does not belong to him. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.”​—Jeremiah 10:23.

...

But these type of questions have been responded to and answered many times to those bringing up the type of arguments and points made by daskakik, Kreeate and others here (also in response to their commentary). Most are not interested, those type of responses and answers don't tickle their ears after all. They would much rather read about such lists as the one I responded to in Kreeate's comment, and leave it at that cause it already tickles their ears (just what they wanted to hear, and that's how they want to view it, so any suggestion that it's not like that, or that the things mentioned in the list are misrepesented and negatively spun, is not really welcome; they're not very openminded to it, if that's not an understatement).

“For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* [Or “healthful; beneficial.”] teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* [Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”] They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.” (2 Timothy 4:3,4)

originally posted by: Wookiep
a reply to: daskakik

Cool story, and that's great with the old woman etc. But when you're sitting in the absence of God, (Anything and all things of God are good) in deep space, all by yourself, you will have no one to argue with but yourself.

Your conscience will understand your self-centered view of reality and you will only be able to argue with yourself. While you sit in space all alone, no light, no companions to argue with, only then you will understand what existence without God means.

When God allows a tiny point of light in the far distance of space, you will appreciate God more than you ever thought possible. We can't even know what "good" is, until we understand that evil exists. You can't appreciate any good thing without experiencing darkness first.

But you're a troll. You do nothing but argue. It's ALL you do on ATS. Always. So that's all I'm going to say to you.

Yup, this once again underlines why I'm an atheist. The anger and finger-pointing in the above is a bit scary. So, only your point of view is correct, right? No-one else is allowed to have another point of view?
Sanctimonious, self-righteous and angry.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

So, you let your own anger towards other angry people keep you from believing in God?

I'm curious as to what questions you ask yourself about God and whether or not he exists, or do you? Do you feel like this is just a miserable world where God couldn't possibly exist because it's so miserable? Help me to understand.