Why are atheist so angry with God?

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: GoShredAK

People need the true Gospel in it's simplist form with no religion attached to it.

Could you please provide me with an example of this?

In this world we are a fallen creation, we are all unable to fulfill the law of the supreme God who is our creator and above all things.

As a fallen creation we are all unable to fulfill the law......we may be good people and have good hearts with good intentions nonetheless sin will find a way to manifest in some way and for every single one of us.......

The law states if you are guilty of one, you are guilty of all.......

So we are all hopeless being unable to fulfill the law by our very nature.......

In the days of the old covenant sacrifice of livestock and good works was the way to have a status of forgiven until you transgress again.....

Our God desires that NONE perish......he knows the number of hairs in your head (who ever is reading, you)

Seeing the dismall state His children were living in God brought forth a new covenant, a new way to govern and be close to His children.....

The Word,God took in the body of a man and came to the earth as a man, being born and raised with all the growing up and being a person we all had to learn to navigate. He was fully man... anointed by the most High God and with the Holy Spirit.....

Yet he still faced the temptation and hunger and frustration and anger and the biggest one of all he faced deep fear and anxiety and apprehension before he knew he was about to be drug away towards the cross and he had to suffer through it even though he could have had twelve legions of angels to save him at any moment.

Because he Loves us he worked his way through that and fulfilled his mission....

As a man who knew know sin took on all of our sin in himself and suffered the full wrath of God's punishment towards sin......All the sins of the world.....which is unfathomable.....Jesus took that holy wrath of God onto himself as he died the most brutal miserable death ever imagined.....

He the rose from the dead as had been prophesied confirming that he layed down his life to fulfill the law and by doing so he conquered death and took away the strength of the law.... replacing the law with this new covenant of Grace and faith.....

So in simpler terms....

We are all sinners whether we like to admit it or not......the punishment for sin is death....
No matter how many good happy fluffy kind things you do.....you are still guilty and condemned......God loves you but he has to uphold his strict holy laws...

That's why I'm so happy there is a new system!

God took it upon himself to be a human offer his blood to cover all sins.....now and forever and for all people....

It's really easy to sign up......you take a step of faith willing to tell Jesus in prayer and confess with your words that you believe he died and was risen in the third day and I want to open my heart to you and follow you.

Once you do that with even the tiniest bit of faith you know have a free ticket and a have freedom to throw that heavy condemnation of a cliff never to be seem from again

Jesus has placed you in the family of the kingdom and your righteousness is your faith.......

Believe in Jesus and you have fulfilled your place in the kingdom....

TRULY I SAY.......the more faith you can find in yourself, and the more prayer from your heart, deep honest, short.......(not religious)

Things begin to happen as God delights in your faith and loves to send all kinds of little confirmatios and I love u messages.......

I pray someone reads and understands.......God can be in your day to day moments....I love to flow with this relationship through the days..








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Without Faith it is impossible to please God.....

God sees acts of faith and smiles.....

Faith is everything and so much more powerful than average people of this spectacular strange and uncertain age

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: GoShredAK
The book of job is a powerful story and a tool for people to justify their feelings of an angry and petty god that they want nothing to do with......iget it...

No, you don't get it but I'm not surprised.

I am not just talking about Job being tested. I'm talking about the most sinful character being in heaven when we are told that that just can't happen. Nobody who is not free of sin can even be in the presence of god. It is the reason given for the death of Jesus.

The fact that god would just chit chat with the guy that tried to run a coup on him is also a big hole in the plot.

It isn't just "god was so mean to Job".

From my studies...

Satan can Roam around and has not yet been restricted.......I think in these days he may not be able to access the highest heaven, that would make sense......

For now he can roam about seeking who he may devour while he waits for his inevitable demise....

Where he will be chained in darkness until the final judgement, then cast into the lake of fire for eternity.

Delete please...post exploded

If God exists, he gave me a penis.

He can now go and suck on it.

a reply to: GoShredAK
You are still missing the point.

It isn't about what might happen to satan at some point.

It is about the claim that god can't even stand to look upon those with sin, yet here we have him just paling around with the greatest sinner of all time, not to mentioned that he tried to take god out, and even making a friendly wager, as if they were the Duke Bros. from Trading Places.

Apparently your faith just won't let you accept this huge plot hole.

a reply to: daskakik

The answer lies in the passage of Job you quoted.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

The Bible is totally consistent and answers itself. The problem is, atheist read the Bible not through the Spirit but through the eyes of the accuser.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

The accuser of our bretheren. Who is "our bretheren?"

Our bretheren are the sons of God. Why would satan be mentioned with them again and who are these sons of God? Let's go back to Genesis:

Genesis 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Here's something to think about:

What you call a plot hole, is easily explained when you dig for truth and you don't just dig looking for holes.

The sons of God are fallen angels. Satan is a fallen angel, so why wouldn't satan be among the sons of God in Job 1:6? Satan wasn't cast out of Heaven yet, so he could still present himself to God along with the sons of God. Revelation 12 talks about this:

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Powerful stuff!

Angels are powerful beings. In Psalms it even asks why is God mindful of man who were made lower than the angels.

Psalm 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

Think about that!

God, the Creator of all things is mindful of us! AMEN!

I'm about to give you some spiritual truth and hopefuly you and others can receive it. The Bible says:

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

God Created beings with free will including the Angels. We all exist because of God's Spirit. If God is this tyrant like atheist like to claim and they try to show these "plot holes" that are truly non-existent, why didn't God just Create beings that had no choice but to serve him in exactly the way He wants them to?

Do atheist ever ask themselves this question?

The reason why is God wants a relationship with us.

Let me say that again,

THE REASON WHY IS GOD WANTS A RELATIONSHIP WITH US!

This is why God said, "Come now, Let us reason together."

Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Your question is answered yet again.

Even though we're sinners, God still says, let us reason together.

So God wanted to allow the Disciples to make the choice to follow Jesus. God wanted their to be a Noah, Elijah, Enoch, David and Moses even though there would be those who reject Him.

So where you see plot holes because that's what you're looking for, there's ONE SPIRIT which sustains all things that will show you these things when you accept Jesus Christ.

a reply to: neoholographic
I see you looking for excuses instead of realizing there are in fact plot holes. When I came across them I was still trying to maintain my faith but being objective, I just couldn't.

Why wouldn't Satan be among the sons of god?

Maybe because he had already been exiled? Remember Satan fell before Adam and Eve and Job was after that.

a reply to: daskakik

You said:

Why wouldn't Satan be among the sons of god?

Maybe because he had already been exiled? Remember Satan fell before Adam and Eve and Job was after that.

Show me the verse that says satan fell from Heaven and he had no more access to Heaven with the sons of God.

Satan doesn't get banned from Heaven until Revelation chapter 12.

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

At this time, satan and his pride might be saying,"God will never really ban me from Heaven." He might not realize this until he no longer has access to Heaven and his bretheren, the sons of God until Revelation 12.

That's the beauty of God's Creation. He made us so we don't know certain things and with free will. This includes the angels. This allows us to have a relationship with God.

Again, you're looking for holes where there are none. This is why I say, if you want to read the Word through the Spirit, give your life to Christ. You sound like you really want to know.

originally posted by: neoholographic
Show me the verse that says satan fell from Heaven and he had no more access to Heaven with the sons of God.

I never said there was a verse, I said it is illogical. Therefore a plot hole.

At this time, satan and his pride might be saying...

Speculation on your part to make things fit. I did the same thing for years.

He might not realize this until he no longer has access to Heaven and his bretheren, the sons of God until Revelation 12.

Right, because Satan could never get a copy of the bible. /s

a reply to: daskakik

You said:

I never said there was a verse, I said it is illogical. Therefore a plot hole.

Where exactly is it illogical? Satan fell to earth but he still has access to heaven with his bretheren the sons of God until Revelation 12 when he's banned and he realizes his time is short.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

What's illogical about this?

You said:

Right, because Satan could never get a copy of the bible. /s

You have eyes to read yet you still do not hear. This is why you see plot holes where there is none.

This is what I said:

At this time, satan and his pride might be saying,"God will never really ban me from Heaven." He might not realize this until he no longer has access to Heaven and his bretheren, the sons of God until Revelation 12.

I said, because of his pride, he may not believe that God is really going to ban him from Heaven. This is why when he realizes he's really banned, he knows his time is short.

We do this all of the time. We might know how something will turn out but we lie to ourselves and act like the outcome isn't really going to happen.

Again, this is the beauty of God's Creation. He knows all from beginning to end but He gave His Spirit to beings that don't know everything and that have free will. Angels might be in Heaven right now wondering when some of these things will happen.

God Created us this way so we can have a relationship with Him. He could have Created beings that have no free will and that do exactly what He says at all times. This is the tyrant strawman god that atheist like to debate.

originally posted by: neoholographic
Where exactly is it illogical? Satan fell to earth but he still has access to heaven with his bretheren the sons of God until Revelation 12 when he's banned and he realizes his time is short.

Because he betrayed god and yet this story expects us to believe they are still on good enough terms for satan to show up with no problem.

This is why when he realizes he's really banned, he knows his time is short.

Like I said earlier, the point isn't about satan possibly being banned in the future, it is about him not being banned and not just allowed in but even treated as if the betrayal had never happened.

But honestly, you think gods right hand man doesn't know god well enough to know if he will keep his word or not. You don't even know god that well and you are convinced of it.

It shouldn't be that hard but I see that faith has that effect.

a reply to: daskakik

You keep saying it's illogical but you're not saying how it's illogical. You said:

Because he betrayed god and yet this story expects us to believe they are still on good enough terms for satan to show up with no problem.

Show me the verse that says satan betrayed God. You keep acting like God doesn't know all. If He knows all, how can He be betrayed?

You're doing what atheist usually do. You're debating against a strawman god that nobody believes in. Again I ask:

Show me the verse that says satan betrayed God. You keep acting like God doesn't know all. If He knows all, how can He be betrayed?

originally posted by: neoholographic
Show me the verse that says satan betrayed God.

Do you believe the serpent in edan was satan?

a reply to: daskakik

Yes, again I ask:

Show me the verse that says satan betrayed God. You keep acting like God doesn't know all. If He knows all, how can He be betrayed?

You act like God can be betrayed like you can be betrayed if you tell someone a secret and then they tell someone. You act like God is supposed to be hurt like you would be hurt. God knows all, so you're the one being illogical.

You're debating against a strawman god that nobody believes in. This is a huge problem when debating atheist. If you don't believe God exists, why should I debate against a strawman god that you make up out of whole cloth?

originally posted by: neoholographic
Yes, again I ask:

Show me the verse that says satan betrayed God. You keep acting like God doesn't know all. If He knows all, how can He be betrayed?

Going by that logic, he can't but that means that everything, both good and evil, are his doing.

You said the serpent in eden was satan, created by god and, apparently a close friend. He is tasked with tempting the new creation and they fail.

Generations later he shows up in heaven, supposedly being the most evil being but he is still able to get in because he was just following orders?

Alright, 1 John 3:8 " He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning."

Now, are we on the same page that devil and satan are the same?

The beginning of what? When was this beginning?

a reply to: daskakik

Sadly, you're all over the place. It's like that saying, "Pride cometh before the fall."

You can't simply say I was wrong and it's not illogical.

I keep askin you to show me the verse you're basing these things on and you're making it up out of whole cloth.

I asked you to show me the verse earlier and you said:

I never said there was a verse

Here we are again, no verse about satan betrayed God. You said:

Because he betrayed god and yet this story expects us to believe they are still on good enough terms for satan to show up with no problem.

You think God should act like you if you were betrayed. God knows all, so how can He be betrayed? The Bible says:

Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

You said:

You said the serpent in eden was satan, created by god and, apparently a close friend. He is tasked with tempting the new creation and they fail.

What??

Where is the verse that says they were close friends?

Where is the verse that says satan was tasked with tempting the new creation?

You're just making it up as you go. You're saying it's illogical because God should respond like you would. THAT'S... ILLOGICAL!

a reply to: neoholographic
I see you can't follow what I am saying.

There is no verse that says satan betrayed god. There are stories, like the serpent in eden, which you said was satan, that shows god was displeased with the serpent and damned it.

Now if the serpent was satan, why would god allow him to be in his presence generations later, the time of Job, as if nothing happened?

You're saying it's illogical because God should respond like you would.

No, I'm saying god should respond like the jealous god he claims to be in the bible.

ETA: I see you avoided answering what "beginning" refers to in 1 John 3:8. I'm assuming we can say the devil refers to satan.

a reply to: neoholographic

For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

My thoughts are mighty high at times too, I want to have a heavenly toke with this bloke

originally posted by: GoShredAK

From my studies...

Satan can Roam around and has not yet been restricted.......I think in these days he may not be able to access the highest heaven, that would make sense......

When the people were beginning to believe Jesus, and were going around to the various cities spreading the good news, Jesus said he saw Satan fall from heaven. In essence, the people give Satan power by submitting to his dominion. Do we go in the path of the father of lies, or do we pioneer our natural birthright and the true meaning of our existence?

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: neoholographic

There is no verse that says satan betrayed god.

Sin is betrayal of God. The Adversary has been sinning from the beginning, litigating the children of God (1 John 3:8). He's like a virus that can only infect people who aren't adhering to the archetypal mind. Notice how in Job when he realizes his error, Job's earthly status is restored and his blessings are multiplied far more than he had before (Job 42). This whole story exemplifies the aspect of faith, and how to integrate with the flow of omniscience.