Russia Ukraine Update Thread

once russia announced its invasion , couldnt UKraine have just surrendered there and then to prevent further loss of life ?
wouldnt that be the best thing anyone can do in this situation just surrender
so no one else has to actually die

yes it means you have surrendered but you saved untold numbers of lives by doing so

what is it that prevents people from surrendering, they dont want to lose their country or their way of life
so is it just materialism that prevents us from compassion

well it seems that way anyway , its probably a lot more complex youd think but boil it down?
is it really about freedom ? we are still chained to the banks and taxes and laws
its more about freedom to consume the way we see fit ?

and surrendering makes you a coward or weak to others? one governments ego over the lives of its citizens
? is thats whats happening for each country ?

global ego wars

a reply to: sapien82

Actually the best outcome would have been for Russia to not invade Ukraine but they did. Russian military inside Ukraine are valid targets. If Russia wants to stop the bloodshed then they need to leave all of Ukraine.

* - Truck with ammunition was seized by Ukrainian army in Mykolaiv region

* - School was completely destroyed in Merepha

* - The Oleshki mayor made a new statement in which he said Russian troops now left the city

* - Kharkiv, Kyiv, Dnipro(12:47). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Russian ships shelling Odesa coast

* - Russian SSO column passing through Gomel with KAMAZ Gepard MRAPs, Tigr-M, Hiluxes, Mitsubishi SUVs, and other specialty vehicles

* - The evacuation of citizens from the Brovary district has begun

* - Ukrainian military destroyed big Russian column near Kamiyanka village in Kharkiv region

* - Uzbekistan, a Central Asian republic with close ties to Russia, called on Thursday for a diplomatic resolution of the conflict in Ukraine and said it would not recognise Moscow-backed separatist statelets there

* - Russian army continues to shell civilian infrastructure in Kharkiv

* - Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu visits Kyiv today as part of Turkey's mediation efforts

As a reminder -

Just so people know and understand. Information from war zones can become confusing as there will no doubt be info released from the players (on both sides) involved that might not necessarily be true.

As such take everything as a possibility and NOT as absolute truth.

The very first casualty in a war is the truth and all warfare is based on deception

a reply to: sapien82

Im not sure Putin cares one way or another sapien82.

Because it don't seem like he's willing to stop this mess in its tracks anytime soon.

The fact remains all the same, even if he does manage to subdue and occupy Ukraine, holding on to the place is simply a pipe dream.

Unless he is willing to deploy and support about 2.2 million troops in what amounts to a hostile territory, and who's people will employ guerrilla warfare against the aggressor at every opportunity.

a reply to: andy06shake

From the first week, Putin released terms for an end to hostilities. This former glory crap goes against everything that was in those terms. That is just BS being spewed by MSM networks and those that haven't been paying attention to current or past affairs.

He doesn't have the capability to hold Ukraine.

As for the civilians, I hate what they are going through but why did they stay? Why aren't MSM outlets talking about how Ukrainian forces are using housing districts/ population centers for storing ammo, setting up ambushes, parking their vehicles by them for shelter. Why aren't they making a big deal out of the military using schools, kindergartens, hospitals for their bases of operation? Why are they being allowed to use the civilian populace as shields without being called out on it?

If someone shoots at a tank with a rocket from a building other tanks are going to fire back no matter what the building is supposed to hold.

There are reports from civilians saying Ukrainian forces have tried to get Russian forces to fire on their villages.

I am still saying there is a huge difference between a ballistic missile with illegal cluster munitions and a cruise missle hitting its designated target.

originally posted by: sapien82
once russia announced its invasion , couldnt UKraine have just surrendered there and then to prevent further loss of life ?
wouldnt that be the best thing anyone can do in this situation just surrender
so no one else has to actually die

yes it means you have surrendered but you saved untold numbers of lives by doing so

Ukraine feels it has to at least try to save itself from being Russian slaves.
maybe its a Man thing. 'We won't go down without a fight'.
Ukraine can't hope to win a full war but it has a chance to wear out and make the cost not worth it to Putin.
Unfortunately Putin doesn't seem to care about what it's costing him, at least not yet.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: sapien82

Actually the best outcome would have been for Russia to not invade Ukraine but they did. Russian military inside Ukraine are valid targets. If Russia wants to stop the bloodshed then they need to leave all of Ukraine.

Why do we need to state again and again the obvious: 'ATTACKED countries are ALLOWED to fight back'?

Oh, yeah, that's why:

a reply to: Grimpachi

They stayed to fight and defend their own nation Grimpachi.

A lot of them may not have had any option really.

And there are apparently 3 million refuges fleeing the country.

Glad we seem to agree as to Putin not having the capability to hold Ukraine.

The entire shebang seems to be a cluster four letter word of the first order.

Cooler heads need to prevail, but im not sure Putin is up for any sorts of peace bar Ukraine's unconditional surrender and occupation.

a reply to: andy06shake

weird , I often consult the I ching in times of confusion, it always seems to have an answer

i asked what will happen with the war between Russia and Ukraine

and it gave me Hexegram 58, Opening

Opening, creating success. Constancy bears fruit.' The early Chinese character for 'Opening' shows someone with words rising from their mouth: they seem to be dancing and singing. It means joyful and outgoing expression that opens up communication. Opening brings people together and begins a lively creative process of sharing and exchange. It liberates human energies, motivates people to overcome hardship and encourages perseverance.

followed by hexegram 60, Measuring

'Measuring, creating success. Bitter measures do not allow for constancy.' Things need to be articulated to make them more manageable, easier to take in and work with. Such measures, when they grow organically, reflect the natural rhythms of life and allow a fuller participation in its flow. Progress is made in small increments. Individuals with measure live sustainably and flourish; groups who share measures and standards, who speak the same language, can reach agreement and build trust. But if anyone reacts to the measures as they would to a bitter taste – if they find them too hard to swallow – then they are not sustainable. This isn't a matter of tradition, principle or logic, but of human experience.

lets hope peace talks are successfull

a reply to: ElGoobero

Aye I mean i Understand that , the idea of being under the boot of another , or bending the knee

but I mean if apparently all we are concerned about is the loss of civilian life since thats all we hear about from everyone, then why dont we all just surrender?
why prolong fighting?

does it really make a bit of difference who is ruling us at this point considering the working class of the world have no chance ,as all the worlds wealth is in the hands of the few

one master another master still a #ing master
we are already enslaved

originally posted by: Grimpachi

From the first week, Putin released terms for an end to hostilities.

I've got an idea, lets say for argument sake you come to my house and sit in front of it with a rifle, then send me a note with YOUR terms for me capitulating to you. My response? If i were you, i wouldnt stand there too long.

originally posted by: Grimpachi

This former glory crap goes against everything that was in those terms. That is just BS being spewed by MSM networks and those that haven't been paying attention to current or past affairs.

Ok, knock it off with this whole MSM garbage. Some of us know USSR and Russia's history, we dont need to be fed a damn thing by the "MSM" to formulate cogent thoughts about what Russia (and especially Putin's) intentions are.

originally posted by: Grimpachi

He doesn't have the capability to hold Ukraine.

He doesn't have the capability to hold Russia either. Poisoning your own citizens because they disagree with you? Jailing your own people because they say "No War"?

originally posted by: Grimpachi

There are reports from civilians saying Ukrainian forces have tried to get Russian forces to fire on their villages.

Are you getting these reports from the "MSM"? Or are you there on site to know this?

a reply to: andy06shake

No respected strategic thinker of the past 30 years would believe he ever planned on taking and keeping Ukraine.

The LPR & DPR that over 14000 have died for over the last 8 years he plans to keep as well as Crimea. There is a river that was blocked when Crimea separated which used to supply all their fresh water and resulted in a famine that I am sure will be part and negotions to unblock.

There will be something about banning Nazis from service and private armies. Speaking the Russian language will no longer be outlawed.No developing of nuclear weapons. Closing biolabs. I imagine he may want the assets of Ihor Kolomoyskyi seized and his citizenship revoked. He is a slimy one. There is a law that no Ukrainian can belong to two nationalities. He got around it by belonging to three.

Those are just the issues that are public knowledge that I can see being part of a ceasefire and an end to hostilities.

We are all walking into nuclear war, you know that
Anyone who wishes NATO to engage Russia is certifiably insane.

a reply to: alphabetaone

I am not going to bother addressing all the other stuff you wrote because you didn't say anything worth addressing. but for this question.

Are you getting these reports from the "MSM"? Or are you there on site to know this?

Here is a video of a Ukrainian MLRS taking off after firing from a population center. Either using them as a shield or trying to bait return fire. There were plenty of other areas they could have set up that wouldn't have endangered civilians.

twit

a reply to: sapien82



Most definitely.

originally posted by: all2human
We are all walking into nuclear war, you know that
Anyone who wishes NATO to engage Russia is certifiably insane.

less insane than Putin, who is unhinged with nukes. Judging by the Russian performance thus far, it seems all putin has left is nukes.

"Also, I'm not insane - my mother had me tested"

a reply to: Grimpachi

So your "evidence" is from "MSM" then?

a reply to: alphabetaone


Do you think a YouTuber and a clip from Telgram is MSM?

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: alphabetaone


Do you think a YouTuber and a clip from Telgram is MSM?

youtube = mainstream.
By youtubes very nature = media.

Do you think that youtube is the source you should be going to for making policy decisions?

Because, no one can be anonymous on youtube