Russia Ukraine Update Thread

a reply to: Xcathdra
Perhaps just start with answering my question... give me examples of "legal" invasions. I wonder if the citizens of Donbas and Crimea, as well as other Russian-speaking citizens that were being systematically wiped out in Ukraine think about this "illegal" invasion. Not that there aren't a whole host of other legitimate reasons the Russians have for wanting to clean out hostile Western influence right on their borders.

originally posted by: Navieko
a reply to: Xcathdra
Perhaps just start with answering my question... give me examples of "legal" invasions. I wonder if the citizens of Donbas and Crimea, as well as other Russian-speaking citizens that were being systematically wiped out in Ukraine think about this "illegal" invasion. Not that there aren't a whole host of other legitimate reasons the Russians have for wanting to clean out hostile Western influence right on their borders.

D Day.

Okinawa.

Phillipines.

Sicily.

Italy.

Desert Storm.

Vietnam.

Korea.

Afghanistan.

Iraq.

Egypt.

Jordan.

Lebanon.

Syria (not referring to more recent events there)

Libya (not hillary's mess)



Is that enough, or should I list examples that are not ok?

You won't like that list very much.





Notice a pattern?

When removing an existing invading force or eliminating an enemy that has attacked and is threatening more attacks on your homeland or that of a friend.

Everything else is somewhere between grey and black.

Clear enough?



(Ignoring the absolute falsehoods you posted about the zones before russia invaded for now)

a reply to: Navieko

I did..
Operation overlord - invasion of Europe.
Operation Torch - Invasion of N. Africa

However Russia's actions in regards to Ukraine are illegal.

They need to get out - completely.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u
Ah right... so any invasion by American/Western forces should by default be considered "legal" and all else, illegal? Gotcha. If only we all could have such child-like realities as yours. If only you were a little more resistant to your own Government's wartime propaganda, you might know the real reasons for many of those "righteous" invasions.

* - Japan joined moves by the U.S. and Western nations to impose sanctions on Russia, including blocking some Russian banks from the SWIFT

* - Australia has imposed sanctions on more than 350 Russian individuals, including Russian President Vladimir Putin since Thursday.

* - Australia has also targeted with sanctions 13 individuals and entities in Belarus, including that country's defense minister, Viktor Khrenin. Belarus is supporting Russia in its war with Ukraine.

* - he two largest media companies in Canada are dropping Russian state TV channel RT from their cable offerings. Rogers spokesman Andrew Garas says Russia Today will no longer be available on its channel lineup as of Monday.

* - The Bell media company also is removing RT.

* - Russia has claimed that its troops are targeting only Ukrainian military facilities and says that Ukraine’s civilian population is not in danger. (Not supported by the facts)

* - The U.S. for the first time has approved the direct delivery of Stinger missiles to Ukraine as part of a package approved by the White House.

originally posted by: all2human
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Offering an alternative perspective
not professing to know the truth
I don't belittle others if they disagree with me.
nor am i new member of just 12 days posting my opinion on the same thread 20hours/day
The propaganda is real

WagnerGroup mercenary captured near Mariupol

Ouch that really hurt my feelz.


russia has been throwing wave after wave of russian soldiers at Mariupol for over a week and just can't seem to figure out how a few hundred defenders are killing so many russian soldiers.



Now we know.

A Wag did it.

The russian army was defeated by a single Wag.

Maybe the U.S. should stop spending so much money on it's military and just hire a few of these Wags instead. This guy sounds pretty invincible.



On a more serious note (slightly), did you not see the public call for global mercs to volunteer in the fight against russian peace keepers in Ukraine?

Wags aren't the only ones there, and I'm guessing they are there in pretty large numbers by now.



Were you hoping someone would be outraged?

Rules changed the minute the invasion started.

Nobody cares if mercs want to go kick the peace out of russian invaders.

I'd start a gofundme for merc travel expenses if they wouldn't just steal my money again.

originally posted by: Navieko
a reply to: PatriotGames4u
Ah right... so any invasion by American/Western forces should by default be considered "legal" and all else, illegal? Gotcha. If only we all could have such child-like realities as yours. If only you were a little more resistant to your own Government's wartime propaganda, you might know the real reasons for many of those "righteous" invasions.

Nice try.

I DID NOT say, or even imply, any such thing.

I actually said the opposite.



Maybe study it a little closer?

a reply to: Xcathdra
Hey I'll give you credit for at least not listing every Western conquest since the last Great War like "PatriotGames4u" has done... but still the fact remains. Outside of our opinions, there is no such thing as a "legal" or "illegal" invasion... based on Russia's reasoning their invasion is "legal", based on yours (Western propaganda) it's "illegal". Completely pointless using those words because at the end of the day it's all a matter of perspective and not universal truths.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u
Sorry but your list is a joke. Based on your own criteria: "When removing an existing invading force or eliminating an enemy that has attacked and is threatening more attacks on your homeland or that of a friend."

The vast majority on your list don't come close to making the cut... but that assumes you don't believe every lie your Government spoon-fed you to justify their invasions.

originally posted by: Navieko
Completely pointless using those words because at the end of the day it's all a matter of perspective and not universal truths.

Except for international law and the UN charter.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Except for international law and the UN charter.

Which are absolutely meaningless in a World where the truth has very little influence over geo-political agendas.

originally posted by: Navieko
a reply to: PatriotGames4u
Sorry but your list is a joke. Based on your own criteria: "When removing an existing invading force or eliminating an enemy that has attacked and is threatening more attacks on your homeland or that of a friend."

The vast majority on your list don't come close to making the cut... but that assumes you don't believe every lie your Government spoon-fed you to justify their invasions.

Every single one of those match 100%.

Point out where any single one of them doesn't meet the criteria if you're in the mood for a proper debunking.

I'll be happy to oblige.

originally posted by: Navieko

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Except for international law and the UN charter.

Which are absolutely meaningless in a World where the truth has no influence over geo-political agendas.

Russia just learned how incorrect your statement is.



Facts.

Facts Matter.

Opinions and 'perspective' do not.

They don't matter at all.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Then maybe you should leave the thread
Fact is,you have been derailing it since it began.

originally posted by: Navieko
a reply to: Xcathdra
Hey I'll give you credit for at least not listing every Western conquest since the last Great War like "PatriotGames4u" has done... but still the fact remains. Outside of our opinions, there is no such thing as a "legal" or "illegal" invasion... based on Russia's reasoning their invasion is "legal", based on yours (Western propaganda) it's "illegal". Completely pointless using those words because at the end of the day it's all a matter of perspective and not universal truths.

I'm not hiding.

Why attack me when talking to someone else?

I'm right here.



Please tell me which example doesn't match the criteria 100%.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u
That'd very much be an exercise in futility considering you very obviously believe (like I said) every lie your Government spoon-fed you to justify their invasions. It seems the only times you don't believe your Government's justifications are essentially when the Democrats were in charge (completely disregarding the fact that both political parties are puppets to the same geo-political interests, perhaps, with the exception of Trump).

originally posted by: all2human
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Then maybe you should leave the thread
Youre opinions and perspectives have been derailing it since it began.

Because some folks are still posting 100% falsehoods in an effort to justify what russia just did, while russia is still doing it.

No other reason.



I'm happy to stand in the path of russian propaganda tanks for as long as necessary.

They simply don't frighten me.



Have you come up with a single example that didn't meet the legal criteria listed yet?

I'm still waiting.

Looking at this cynically from a US intel perspective, Russia will be bled dry and isolated by this invasion. This may lead to their collapse as the Afghan war was one of the main reasons for their collapse in the 90s.

The economic effect and sanctions alone may destroy Russia. And if, as many claim, this is all a US setup to use Ukraine to bleed Russia then it is a success. Putin is going on his ego now, not common sense and concern for his country. So, he won’t back off and admit defeat as of now. He needs something to save face.

Unless he can claim he got concessions in the talks.

He will at least do what Israel has done in Palestine, grab a huge chunk of land, and just like Israel keeps the Gaza strip and other parts of Arab land so will Russia either keep all of Ukraine or some of what they conquer.

originally posted by: Navieko
a reply to: Xcathdra
Perhaps just start with answering my question... give me examples of "legal" invasions. I wonder if the citizens of Donbas and Crimea, as well as other Russian-speaking citizens that were being systematically wiped out in Ukraine think about this "illegal" invasion. Not that there aren't a whole host of other legitimate reasons the Russians have for wanting to clean out hostile Western influence right on their borders.

Stop with the dishonest deflections.

I gave you both the legal definition and a long list of examples.

Which one don't you understand?

I'll be happy to clarify the matter.

originally posted by: Navieko
a reply to: PatriotGames4u
That'd very much be an exercise in futility considering you very obviously believe (like I said) every lie your Government spoon-fed you to justify their invasions. It seems the only times you don't believe your Government's justifications are essentially when the Democrats were in charge (completely disregarding the fact that both political parties are puppets to the same geo-political interests, perhaps, with the exception of Trump).

Not paying attention?

I NEVER believe ANYTHING that ANY government says.

EVER.


Now please stop with the smearing attempts and point out where either the definition or any single example provided is inaccurate in any way.

Or stop claiming that they are.