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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Grenade

When you study at university you undergo entire modules sometimes entire degrees just looking at the nature of evidence base in health care. The reason is that there is a lot more to it than just saying Lazzarino (2020) states x and therefore this must be true.

Not to sound like a patronising prick but you clearly have never underwent that kind of education so I guess its understandable that you would look at something like that article and hold it so dear. I suppose you don't know what you don't know and it's quite clear you don't know how to critically appraise medical literature. If I where you I would move past this one link that you have found.

Just to add it isn't even an article he linked. It's the online equivalent of a letter to the editor.

a reply to: ScepticScot

And do these links address a single point I made?

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

And do these links address a single point I made?

So you haven't read them? Evidence has changed since April to be in favour of face masks as effective at reducing the spread of covid 19.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Which raises some concerns, none of which you have debunked with any scientific evidence.

Playing games with semantics doesn’t invalidate his expert opinion.

a reply to: ScepticScot

I never said they weren’t effective at stopping the spread of covid.

a reply to: Grenade

I hold a BSc in Computer Science so maybe you shouldn’t make loose assumptions about people based solely on a few internet posts, quite hypocritical considering the content of your last post.

And did you spend a lot of time studding the nature of health care literature during that course..?

I’m unable to find much medical research at all on the risks of face masks so have to take the only opinions I find from experts in the field.

Your problem is that of a confirmation bias, you have a view that masks are bad so are only looking for evidence that supports that position.

There are loads of other experts who welcome the use of face masks in public, however you're not interested in that because it doesn't conform to your confirmation bias. So when other members have pointed out the evidence to you that masks are sensible and safe you dismiss it. As such why would I or anyone else bother hunting for information that you dismiss automatically and don't seem to fully understand anyway.

Masks are safe and help prevent the spread of COVID-19, this is a simple fact that you chose to ignore because....reasons.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

I never said they weren’t effective at stopping the spread of covid.

Ok then why not wear one.

I am really struggling with this, you know that they prevent the spread of the disease and its quite obvious that they are not going to cause you any kind of harm so why not wear one?

Your whole argument is very inconsistent.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I don’t hold it dear at all, he raises concerns regarding the use of facemasks. You can’t show me any evidence to the contrary. He is an expert in the field, you’re a judgemental prick on an Internet forum who misrepresents my opinion and fails to address anything I say. Who do you think I’m going to believe?

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

As soon as you address any one of the points I raised with information to the contrary I’ll be happy to re-assess my thinking. As of yet you’ve failed so I won’t hold my breath.

“The masks likely aggravate virus symptoms, improve breeding habitat, reduce immune response and increase viral load and contamination. I shouldn’t be made to wear a mask if it is at detriment to my health.”

Summary of the points raised by:

Antonio I Lazzarino
Medical Doctor and Epidemiologist
Steptoe A, Hamer M, Michie S
University College London
UCL Institute of Epidemiology and Health Care
@AILazzarino

Anytime you like.

The doctor you are relying on says lockdown are the only proven effective method of reducing virus spread.

Do you support a stricter lock down then, as that would seem at odds with your previous statements

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

They pose health risks to the wearer. Not just the elevated co2 card you and your puppet masters keep rolling out.

Trying to catch a virus with a cloth mask is like trying to catch a fly with a wire fence.

originally posted by: bastion

originally posted by: SKEPTEK

originally posted by: AndyMayhew
a reply to: and14263

The less people who wear masks, the less people who observe social distancing, the less people who follow the rules, the longer this will go on and the stricter lockdowns will become.

You, sir, are fighting against our freedoms, not for them.

How can people still believe this?

Science.

Plus knowing our grandparents/parents didn't fight in WWII so people could fake disability or serious health condition because they'er too selfish to do the bare minimum to help shield other people.

Your grandparents/parents are disappointed that their ancestors have become such soft propaganda believing retards.

a reply to: ScepticScot

No, that would conflict with my political opinions. I’m in favour of personal liberty and have faith in people to make their own conscientious decisions about their personal safety.

a reply to: Grenade

I don’t hold it dear at all, he raises concerns regarding the use of facemasks

All of his concerns though are more about partialities of wearing a face mask, he points out things like how people might touch their face, get a false sense of security and therefore not obey social distancing or touch their eyes. He does talk about how it can negatively impact those with respiratory conditions but nobody is arguing against that.

He is not saying that its a risk for healthy adults to wear a mask.

You can’t show me any evidence to the contrary

There are legitimate concerns that he raises but they are about partialities, he is not saying if you were a mask you are at risk rather its more a warning about how masks if used incorrectly can be problematic. Just like if you use a condom incorrectly it can be problematic.

So I don't need to show you evidence to the contrary because he isn't actually saying masks pose a risk to healthy people.

He is an expert in the field, you’re a judgemental prick on an Internet forum who misrepresents my opinion and fails to address anything I say. Who do you think I’m going to believe?

Well due to your confirmation bias you're going to believe whoever supports your position that masks are bad.

I can't change that I can only expose it.

a reply to: Grenade

They pose health risks to the wearer. Not just the elevated co2 card you and your puppet masters keep rolling out.

Surgeons for decades now have been wearing these masks for hours upon hours every day for their entire lives with no negative effects that cause serious harm.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I have a brain, you’re advocating restriction of airflow to the lungs during a respiratory infection pandemic. Take a step back and think about this logically. I’m not talking about spreading the virus, I’m talking about the aggravation of symptoms for those unaware they are carrying covid as they cultivate it and rebreathe. Not to mention many elderly people have respiratory illness which is now being exacerbated by their wearing of a mask induced by fear and mass hysteria.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

The average lifespan of a doctor is much shorter than that of the general population. By roughly 10%

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

No, that would conflict with my political opinions. I’m in favour of personal liberty and have faith in people to make their own conscientious decisions about their personal safety.

So you are selectively agreeing with him when it supports your own political options.

Your optical opinions are yours to have and if you want to say that you believe individual liberty is more important than that is an entirely legitimate view. I might disagree with how much of a loss of individual liberty wearing a face mask entails given the costs of the virus but I would respect your opinion.


You do not however get to have your own facts and the current evidence is overwhelming on favour of wearing face masks.

a reply to: Grenade

I have a brain

Your posts on this thread are really starting to make me wonder about that....

I think the real truth here is that you oppose the use of masks for political reasons, thats the issue, you believe it infringes upon liberty, then go to hunt out evidence that supports your view. Its a confirmation bias, anyone with a couple of brain cells can work out that face coverings can help prevent the spread of infection and are harmless.

Your argument is essentially that you are not wearing a face mask because you believe face masks cause harm yet have not actually been able to prove this.

Thats the issue.

a reply to: Grenade

Yes, and you presented the opinion of that one expert as the opinion of the journal itself, which it isn't.
The journal published an editorial giving its opinion on wearing masks.

This has been pointed out to you, surprisingly you have chosen to completely ignore this and continue with your locked in version of things.

There are literally hundreds of 'experts' giving their opinions.....the vast majority advocate wearing masks for one reason or another at least whilst shopping etc.
You choose to believe one of the small handful of 'experts' who oppose the efficacy of wearing masks.

We can all only guess as to your reasoning behind this but it does seem to me quite reckless and inconsiderate.

I don't expect you to care one little bit about that though.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

The average lifespan of a doctor is much shorter than that of the general population. By roughly 10%

Prove that is due to wearing masks.

Let me help and save you some time, because you can't.